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Hand Knit posted:Okay but now that the pitching prospects are pumpkinized the Jays will have a lot of very cost-effective pumpkins. This is how you build a winner. 
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May 16, 2017 14:49
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Hand Knit posted:Okay but now that the pitching prospects are pumpkinized the Jays will have a lot of very cost-effective pumpkins. This is how you build a winner. Throw the pumpkins in the lake.
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May 16, 2017 14:50
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Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:Throw the pumpkins in the lake. I find shooting pumpkins out of a cannon to be cooler.
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May 16, 2017 14:51
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Maybe if the Blue Jays did some steroids then their team wouldnt suck so bad.
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May 16, 2017 14:57
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Worked for Collabello, so you're probably right.
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May 16, 2017 14:58
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Paul Zuvella posted:Maybe if the Blue Jays did some steroids then their team wouldnt suck so bad. I mean a lineup featuring Goins, Carrera, Barney, and Pillar would seem like a pretty good group to use to test the power of steroids if we hadn't already traveled that route with Neifi Perez.
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May 16, 2017 15:08
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the popes toes posted:Gosh I hope I'm not intruding on roidchat but yesterday ALTUVE HIT THE loving DINGER MACHINE. I like the Marlins but I hate that thing and I was glad when Altuve hit it. This is amazing.
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May 16, 2017 15:13
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 If this isn't Hall of Fame material then just disband it already
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May 16, 2017 15:27
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Poque posted:
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May 16, 2017 15:38
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So I just got into a discussion about classifying the various balls in play with Ice Fist and I could have sworn there was a recent FanGraphs article about this very issue, specifically the difference between a fly ball, line drive, and pop-up. Anybody know which one I'm talking about?
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May 16, 2017 15:50
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Rad Valtar posted:Barry Bonds was a hall of famer before he even starting doping. loving truth. Before 1998 (which is when he started according to Game of Shadows) he had 7400 PAs with a 162 OPS+, 3 MVPs and 91.5 WAR.
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May 16, 2017 16:12
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Julio Cruz posted:loving truth. Before 1998 (which is when he started according to Game of Shadows) he had 7400 PAs with a 162 OPS+, 3 MVPs and 91.5 WAR. Yowza If this turned into pages upon pages of Bonds stats I'd still read it
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May 16, 2017 16:15
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Julio Cruz posted:loving truth. Before 1998 (which is when he started according to Game of Shadows) he had 7400 PAs with a 162 OPS+, 3 MVPs and 91.5 WAR. Ya but how many hits did he have?
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May 16, 2017 16:20
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I mean, really guys. Barrold was probably doping long before the end of his career. He also is still the greatest baseballsman ever so who loving cares.
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May 16, 2017 16:21
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Ser Barrold's career OBP was higher than Jeet's SLG lol
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May 16, 2017 16:36
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https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/864500138953322496 So, does this mean Randy is about to go on a mission to the ISS?
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May 16, 2017 16:36
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Something that's been bugging me lately is how an error is never a positive for the hitter. There have been loads of fast running hitters who force errors due to their speed or guys who drill the ball (good contact) but it still results in an error and in both cases this negatively impacts their slash. Is there a stat that tries to incorporate errors as a positive? I honestly think their should be two grades to an error, something like a forced error which would give credit to the hitter and an incidental error that's just your typical wild throw to first on a slow ground ball and hurts the batter.
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May 16, 2017 16:41
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Popete posted:Something that's been bugging me lately is how an error is never a positive for the hitter. There have been loads of fast running hitters who force errors due to their speed or guys who drill the ball (good contact) but it still results in an error and in both cases this negatively impacts their slash. this sounds like a good question for Effectively Wild
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May 16, 2017 16:42
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Julio Cruz posted:loving truth. Before 1998 (which is when he started according to Game of Shadows) he had 7400 PAs with a 162 OPS+, 3 MVPs and 91.5 WAR. pff, that's obviously just because they gamed his order in the lineup to enhance his Hall of Fame likelihood Going to see Giants/Cubs next Tuesday now, it will be billed as an NLDS rematch of Cueto vs Lester but now that both teams are garbage who knows what will happen! (prediction: rainout)
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May 16, 2017 16:45
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Errors are a dumb stat in general because they're 100% subjective. Also you get punished for having better range and trying more difficult plays.
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May 16, 2017 16:47
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IcePhoenix posted:Errors are a dumb stat in general because they're 100% subjective. Yeah good point, from a purely statistical standpoint it's better for both the defender and hitter if the infield has bad range. I wouldn't be opposed to just counting reaching base on an error as a hit, I mean that's basically what happens already when an outfielder misses a fly out.
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May 16, 2017 16:51
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Also can we change it so that inherited runners count as .5 towards the ERA for both the pitcher who let the man on base and the pitcher who let him score?
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May 16, 2017 16:55
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Another gripe is fielders choice or fielders choice with an error. Man on 1st and a ground ball is hit to 3B, the fielder throws to second for the DP but it's a bad throw and both runners reach. This hurts the hitter and is an error which I think is a bad call. Or let's say they get the out at second but had 3B tried to throw out the hitter at first instead of second it would have been a difficult play with no clear outcome I think the hitter should be rewarded with a hit instead of a FC.
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May 16, 2017 16:56
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This is why I always laugh at people who hate WAR because it's "too complicated" but still think batting average is a good stat. Not that batting average is a bad stat, but it's complicated as poo poo because of all the things that can change whether or not something is a hit or at bat.
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May 16, 2017 16:58
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Popete posted:Yeah good point, from a purely statistical standpoint it's better for both the defender and hitter if the infield has bad range. This is never going to happen while ERA is still a thing.
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May 16, 2017 16:58
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IcePhoenix posted:Errors are a dumb stat in general because they're 100% subjective. Not just subjective, they're a moral judgement of the player by the scorer. They should have been dumped decades ago except that Baseball Tradition is the most powerful force in the universe, plus sports fans love nothing more than passing moral judgement on athletes (ex. the last three pages of this thread).
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May 16, 2017 16:59
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Popete posted:Something that's been bugging me lately is how an error is never a positive for the hitter. There have been loads of fast running hitters who force errors due to their speed or guys who drill the ball (good contact) but it still results in an error and in both cases this negatively impacts their slash. I've had the same thought watching Trea Turner run out ground balls while the shortstop, cognizant of his speed, panics and boots the ball horribly. I'd definitely agree that its a skill and it'd be cool to quantify for players who can "force" errors like that with great speed, I just don't know if it happens often enough to make a meaningful difference. It wouldn't be hard to modify any of the normal triple slash stats to include reached on errors by just adding them into the numerator. I would wager that REO totals probably fluctuate wildly from year to year and their inclusion makes a negligible impact on the stats of anyone but absolute fastest and slowest players in the league.
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May 16, 2017 16:59
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The dumb advanced version of a dumb stat I was thinking of recently is the Quality Start Plus: add a + for each inning beyond six or earned run fewer than three. A CGSO becomes a QS++++++.
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May 16, 2017 17:02
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OBP doesn't care for an error? I'm AOK with fielder's choice, you shouldn't get a hit just because there's already a man on.
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May 16, 2017 17:02
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shadok posted:plus sports fans love nothing more than passing moral judgement on athletes (ex. the last three pages of this thread). This is certainly true, when I was at a Mariners game a couple of weeks ago, Ben Gamel missed a catch and my friend said, "his mother is disappointed in him."
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May 16, 2017 17:03
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Couple pages back but lol at people thinking Bonds should be in the HoF. Sorry, cheaters don't get in. He was a very very good cheater, yes. If he hadn't cheated he would have still been better than 99.999% of players. It's too bad but there's no 'oh you were this good so cheating is ok' threshold
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May 16, 2017 17:04
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The Walrus posted:Couple pages back but lol at people thinking Bonds should be in the HoF. Sorry, cheaters don't get in. He was a very very good cheater, yes. If he hadn't cheated he would have still been better than 99.999% of players. It's too bad but there's no 'oh you were this good so cheating is ok' threshold Look at this loving idiot
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May 16, 2017 17:04
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the fact everyone else was doing it, or it was tacitly endorsed, or whatever excused for cheating you want to put on it are irrelevant. he was cheating and got caught. all records are suspect.
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May 16, 2017 17:05
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Why are all the people with bad opinions Blue Jays fans?
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May 16, 2017 17:06
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KICK BAMA KICK posted:The dumb advanced version of a dumb stat I was thinking of recently is the Quality Start Plus: add a + for each inning beyond six or earned run fewer than three. A CGSO becomes a QS++++++. Quality Starts definitely need to be changed to account for the current average level of offense. 6 innings and 3 runs is a 4.5 ERA which, right now, is a pretty poor definition of "quality".
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May 16, 2017 17:06
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Julio Cruz posted:Quality Starts definitely need to be changed to account for the current average level of offense. 6 innings and 3 runs is a 4.5 ERA which, right now, is a pretty poor definition of "quality". does this coincide with a replacement player line?
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May 16, 2017 17:06
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The Walrus posted:the fact everyone else was doing it, or it was tacitly endorsed, or whatever excused for cheating you want to put on it are irrelevant. he was cheating and got caught. all records are suspect. This just in, Hall of Fame credentials should be based not on how good a player you were but on how good you were at avoiding being caught taking the same pills and supplements everybody else was taking.
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May 16, 2017 17:07
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The Walrus posted:Couple pages back but lol at people thinking Bonds should be in the HoF. Sorry, cheaters don't get in. He was a very very good cheater, yes. If he hadn't cheated he would have still been better than 99.999% of players. It's too bad but there's no 'oh you were this good so cheating is ok' threshold Wow I didn't think I'd see the day Murray Chass had an account
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May 16, 2017 17:08
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Julio Cruz posted:This just in, Hall of Fame credentials should be based not on how good a player you were but on how good you were at avoiding being caught taking the same pills and supplements everybody else was taking. how do you know how good of a player he would have been if he didn't cheat? you can have a pretty good idea, but you can never be sure. Either PEDs are allowed or their use excludes you from the HOF, I'm not sure there's a middle ground.
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May 16, 2017 17:09
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The Walrus posted:the fact everyone else was doing it, or it was tacitly endorsed, or whatever excused for cheating you want to put on it are irrelevant. he was cheating and got caught. all records are suspect. Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle, and Willie Mays all admitted to cheating over the course of their careers through gratuitous use of amphetamines. Should they be removed from the hall?
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May 16, 2017 17:09
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