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Here's a cool thing a Bellingcat volunteer did for an investigation into the murder of a Ukrainian journalist https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/862373671092051968
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May 10, 2017 20:37
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Brown Moses posted:Here's a cool thing a Bellingcat volunteer did for an investigation into the murder of a Ukrainian journalist Nice!
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May 10, 2017 20:38
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Pew just released a big survey on religion in central and Eastern Europe. http://www.pewforum.org/2017/05/10/religious-belief-and-national-belonging-in-central-and-eastern-europe/ The really unnerving bits are the non-religious questions.  
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May 11, 2017 06:39
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Brown Moses posted:Here's a cool thing a Bellingcat volunteer did for an investigation into the murder of a Ukrainian journalist  Wow that's crazy.
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May 11, 2017 09:36
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http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-1270_en.htmquote:The visa-free regime will enter into force 20 days after publication in the Official Journal of the amendment to Regulation 539/2001. Once in force, Ukrainian citizens with biometric passports will no longer require visas when travelling for short stays of up to 90 days to all EU Member States except for Ireland and the UK, as well as the four Schengen associated countries. Edit: In other news from this end of the continent, "the Pokemon hunter" Sokolovskiy has been sentenced to a 3.5 year suspension, primarily on the grounds of a religious hate crime (denial of existence of Jesus and Muhammad). cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 12:59 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 12:52
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Gobbeldygook posted:Pew just released a big survey on religion in central and Eastern Europe. Thanks for this. fascinating. (I'm Croatian). Apparently we're one of the most devout countries in eastern europe - no surprises there - but I was also pleasantly surprised to see we're also, like, 3rd least homophobic. Also, my Serbian bros, WTF is this anti-democracy poo poo? Can someone explain this to me?
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May 11, 2017 19:22
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It might be something to do with the sample? That doesn't quite fit with my lived experience, and I don't even primarily move in young liberal circles, or even with some of the other charts in the article. If I had to guess I'd say it might be a bit of Yugonostalgia and the way the question was phrased. e: As in, Croatians have other, negative associations by which to remember Yugoslavia but a lot of older people here (in particular in the South-East where we didn't have much ethnic strife and used to have a lot of industry) mainly remember it as a non-democratic form of government under which at least most people had more secure livelihoods than they do now. SaltyJesus fucked around with this message at 19:58 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 19:50
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Oh sure, from what I can tell, life under Tito was more dignified for most people (not just Serbs) than whatever the gently caress we have now. So I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that some would prefer Yugocommunism over what passes for democracy in this corner of the world. I guess I was just shocked to see such a negative view of democracy cos it implies a level of cynicism towards what is still, elsewhere, an idealized concept. Like, almost anywhere in the West, it's just taken for granted and almost everyone will agree that democracy is the best possible system we can have or hope for and it would be seen as completely bonkers for someone to advocate a nondemocratic form of government... But, I don't know, I kinda think at least all those people protesting across Serbia this past month had to believe in democracy of some kind?
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May 11, 2017 21:07
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60% of Russians think Stalin was cool.
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May 11, 2017 21:08
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Excellent news for my fiancee. The trip from Rivne to Kiev to turn in her papers was getting old.
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May 11, 2017 22:18
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Slowdive posted:Oh sure, from what I can tell, life under Tito was more dignified for most people (not just Serbs) than whatever the gently caress we have now. So I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that some would prefer Yugocommunism over what passes for democracy in this corner of the world. I guess I was just shocked to see such a negative view of democracy cos it implies a level of cynicism towards what is still, elsewhere, an idealized concept. Like, almost anywhere in the West, it's just taken for granted and almost everyone will agree that democracy is the best possible system we can have or hope for and it would be seen as completely bonkers for someone to advocate a nondemocratic form of government... But, I don't know, I kinda think at least all those people protesting across Serbia this past month had to believe in democracy of some kind? Most of the world is some sort of democracy and most of the world is some sort of hellshow of corruption and inequality. Democracy is only good as a form of government because it's slightly, on average, less prone to corruption and abuse of power than other forms but only barely and only in the right conditions. So much of what in the west is thought of as simply an effect of being a democracy mostly stems from having a civil society, an effective legal system at an arms length from the government (so politicians and rich people sometimes get punished for doing illegal things), a politically neutral civil service enacting what the politicians want, and so on. But in the west we have this idea that once a country "becomes a democracy" they'll just get all that over stuff taken for granted in the west because it's all part and parcel in our minds. For a lot of people things got worse when they got "democracy". Sure they can vote for who the leader is, but those leaders manage to be more corrupt than their previous dictators, the rule of law has been even more corrupted and politicized, and civil society has broken down into a brutal dog eat dog capitalist deathrace. For the majority of people unless they were a political dissident or they've managed to claw and thieve their way into becoming rich in the new democratic-capitalist system, life's gotten worse. Some abstract concept of "now I get to vote for which criminal gang will be running the country" doesn't outweigh suddenly not having access to healthcare or pensions, no job security, and shocking inequality. They'd love to have democracy AND stability and a decent quality of life, but if they'd have to choose they'd obviously choose the later because democracy isn't sacred to them, it's useless to them.
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May 11, 2017 22:55
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Speaking of capitalism and democracy making things worse. https://twitter.com/APDiploWriter/status/862363079396524032 As an ugly American who's grown up in a capitalist system and watched the middle class shrink, income inequality grow to the same levels the US had right before the stock market crash of 1929, politicians insist there is no way to provide everyone healthcare unless a CEO is raking in millions of dollars, and churches continually tell me communists worship the devil, I'm watching a group of corrupt politicians dismantle what is left of civil society and destroy the "American Dream" for most of the world. Things are getting worse even in the one country where everything is supposed to be awesome, and we're the ones who are supposed to get it. Western democracy in countries that haven't always had that kind of government and society must be a horror show.
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May 12, 2017 11:27
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Baronjutter posted:Most of the world is some sort of democracy and most of the world is some sort of hellshow of corruption and inequality. Democracy is only good as a form of government because it's slightly, on average, less prone to corruption and abuse of power than other forms but only barely and only in the right conditions. So much of what in the west is thought of as simply an effect of being a democracy mostly stems from having a civil society, an effective legal system at an arms length from the government (so politicians and rich people sometimes get punished for doing illegal things), a politically neutral civil service enacting what the politicians want, and so on. But in the west we have this idea that once a country "becomes a democracy" they'll just get all that over stuff taken for granted in the west because it's all part and parcel in our minds. This, to the loving letter.
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May 12, 2017 11:38
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Democracy has a bad reputation in EE because its implementation was pretty lovely, there isn't a long tradition for democratic institutions, and it coincided with the disintegrating communist economy and shock therapy or other misguided transition efforts. I understand why people see things this way, but still disagree. A "stronk leader" wouldn't be any better because he (sorry, lady dictators) would still only care about his family and buddies.Noosphere posted:Excellent news for my fiancee. The trip from Rivne to Kiev to turn in her papers was getting old.
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May 12, 2017 11:48
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mobby_6kl posted:Democracy has a bad reputation in EE because its implementation was pretty lovely, there isn't a long tradition for democratic institutions, and it coincided with the disintegrating communist economy and shock therapy or other misguided transition efforts. I understand why people see things this way, but still disagree. A "stronk leader" wouldn't be any better because he (sorry, lady dictators) would still only care about his family and buddies.  He even managed to only build A concentration camp
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May 12, 2017 13:00
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Democracy without the necessary supporting civil (and civilized) society can quickly turn into an horror show far worse than any dictatorship. If back during the 15th/16th centuries democratic rule was introduced in the Iberian Peninsula the first order of business would be "kill all jews/muslims/converts" as opposed to the more "lenient" autocratic "force all jews and muslims to convert". I'm not trying to make light of cultural genocide or how bad autocracies can be, simply pointing out that democracy by itself is worthless. Increasing democratization should ideally be a gradual process that goes hand in hand with increased liberalization of the population and its social mores, otherwise you risk ending up with Lord of the Flies. e: I'm not implying that the island in Lord of the Flies was a democracy, just that if they had a referendum the "Kill Piggy" bill would get massive popular approval. MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 13:17 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 13:07
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In my language, democracy in the dictionaries is defined as:quote:politična ureditev z vladavino večine, ki varuje osebne in politične pravice vseh državljanov In my opinion, this is the only correct definition, anything else is a tyranny of the majority, not a democracy.
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May 12, 2017 13:24
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Agreed, but it's that "protects the rights of all citizens" detail that's the devil to achieve. Unless the society is primed for it you'll never get people to democratically agree to it, a tyranny of the majority is what you will get. I have no idea how to get there other than increasing education and plenty of time though. This isn't to argue that "some peoples are better suited to be ruled autocratically" or some such crock of poo poo, democracy is always preferable as long as the population isn't composed of irredeemable assholes. And now I realize I've just said "democracy is great as long as I agree with how people vote". gently caress. 
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May 12, 2017 13:33
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Which is why enlightened absolutism is the best way to go for most places right now 
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May 12, 2017 13:37
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Bring back sortation imo https://www.amazon.com/Against-Elections-David-Van-Reybrouck/dp/1847924220
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May 12, 2017 13:49
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Truga posted:Which is why enlightened absolutism is the best way to go for most places right now MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 13:55 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 13:52
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Truga posted:Which is why enlightened absolutism is the best way to go for most places right now Bring back elected kings who follow rule of law!
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May 12, 2017 14:08
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MeLKoR posted:Agreed, but it's that "protects the rights of all citizens" detail that's the devil to achieve. Depends on who gets to have citizen status, really... The colonial system is a good example of that, democratic institutions for the citizens, but indigenous people aren't citizens.
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May 12, 2017 14:37
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MeLKoR posted:The problem with that is that if you look at the historical record the ratio of rear end in a top hat to enlightened despots must be 100 to 1. The closest to one for Russia would probably be Alexander II, and he banned publishing books or public performances in Ukrainian .
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May 12, 2017 15:51
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Truga posted:In my language, democracy in the dictionaries is defined as: That particular phrasing is somewhat funny considering the existence of https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izbrisani I'm just giving you a hard time, Slovenia seems to be doing a few things better than the rest of us Yugos e: Haha, my post even combos with Cat Mattress posted:Depends on who gets to have citizen status, really... The colonial system is a good example of that, democratic institutions for the citizens, but indigenous people aren't citizens. SaltyJesus fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 19:28
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Pizdec posted:In the same vein, as 'pić/пить' means 'to drink', then 'piwo/пиво' ('beer') literally means 'the drink'. Awesome. As penance I offer a joke that I've retold before, but probably in a history thread. Back when Poland was partitioned into thirds, a Pole from Warsaw (capital of the Russian bit) and a Pole from Poznan (capital of the Prussian bit and the place I lived for a while  ) run into each other.Poznan: "Oh hey man, it's been a while. What are you up to these days?" Warsaw: "We're stockpiling arms to throw off the yoke of the Russian occupiers!  "Poznan: ... Poznan: "...Are you sure that's allowed?  "
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May 13, 2017 03:52
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What's great is democratically elected representative republican government. Democracy, true, purestrain democracy, is probably the worst form of government out there, nigh-universally reviled by philosophers since days of yore.
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May 13, 2017 04:50
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Is Putin invincible these days? It feels as if he's walking over our US constituents with bribes and espionage in an attempt to vassalize the whole fifty states.
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May 13, 2017 05:49
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He's as invulnerable as any powerful ex-spy turned world leader with an extensive network including most high level business types, oligarchs and crime syndicates. Backed up with nuclear weapons. The counter to him is a unified populace, a direction for the country and low corruption. Essentially the world has never been so vulnerable to Putins manipulation.
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May 13, 2017 09:02
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Election, in retrospect, is a pretty bad way of achieving representation, and was a much better tool for the 1800's constitutional monarchies where the rich voted in their favorite oligarchs. You know, because it didn't try to be much more than a tool to produce meritocratic oligarchy over hereditary autocracy. The pitfalls of elections are numerous and people have become better and better at abusing them. Firstly, same as free markets: imperfect information that is knowingly manipulated as a part of everyday political strategy. Secondly, success in elections relies primarily on marketing, which means money. Thirdly, the bandwagon effect, where people go for parties or people mainly because others do, which gives a ton of power to the largest parties. Fourthly, political parties as both providers of a single point of failure for corruption (hierarchical leadership, even if elected) and gatekeepers of who can realistically be elected. I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. My position is that we have representation despite elections, not because of them: through a functional civil society, being able to provide both incentives and threats to elected officials through mass movements. Of course there are still major good things about not having leaders-for-life, like being able to correct major fuckups a single set of leaders failed to see before they drive the country into ruin. But lovely real-life democracies are far from theoretical tyrannies of the majority, they're tyrannies of a minority throwing a few bones to a well-chosen majority to make them bandwagon for them instead of against them.
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May 13, 2017 12:56
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Regarde Aduck posted:He's as invulnerable as any powerful ex-spy turned world leader with an extensive network including most high level business types, oligarchs and crime syndicates. Backed up with nuclear weapons. The real way to undermine Putin would actually have Russians a real option to vote for, even then I have a hard time seeing any future Russian government (even a left-wing one) being not revanchist in some capacity. Navalny doesn't really cut it, he is better as a source of pressure than an actual replacement. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 13:21 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 13:11
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Poroshenko and the Rada just banned a bunch of Russian web services, social networks etc. including VKontakte, Odnoklassniki, Yandex, Mail.ru for three years http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/World/2017/May-16/406005-ukraine-blocks-popular-russian-social-networks.ashx 
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May 16, 2017 10:13
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Oooof that's gotta be tough for any Russian speaking country.
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May 16, 2017 10:17
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Pierogi posted:Oooof that's gotta be tough for any Russian speaking country.
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May 16, 2017 10:23
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SaltyJesus posted:That particular phrasing is somewhat funny considering the existence of https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izbrisani Yeah, the whole erased thing is super hosed and unfortunately the people responsible for it won't be prosecuted at all.
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May 16, 2017 11:52
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SaltyJesus posted:Poroshenko and the Rada just banned a bunch of Russian web services, social networks etc. including VKontakte, Odnoklassniki, Yandex, Mail.ru for three years mail.ru has a page in FAQ where they explain how to access banned sites through proxies. Probably wasn't there before. 
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May 16, 2017 12:05
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What the gently caress https://twitter.com/ValLisitsa/status/863841029044273152
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May 16, 2017 17:59
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tekz posted:What the gently caress Likely neo-nazi troop with PTSD that even the Right Sector has condemned following the incident. The ID appears to belong to Yarosh's bodyguard who is testifying as an eyewitness of the attack (testifying against the shooter), and it is not entirely clear if the shooter is actually a bodyguard, or a different member of Yarosh's party, or just tagged along.
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May 16, 2017 18:08
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SaltyJesus posted:Poroshenko and the Rada just banned a bunch of Russian web services, social networks etc. including VKontakte, Odnoklassniki, Yandex, Mail.ru for three years And now I have to figure out how to communicate with my students sans VK because hardly anyone here uses FB. Just received this in my VK inbox: quote:Указом президента П. О. Порошенка ВКонтакті може бути заблокований на території України: http://www.president.gov.ua/documents/1332017-21850. We love our Ukrainian peeps! Have a link to get around the sanctions. Shes Not Impressed fucked around with this message at 19:42 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 19:39
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Hey guys we're getting a Slavic esperanto! http://www.total-croatia-news.com/lifestyle/18947-czech-linguist-and-croatian-anthropologist-create-an-inter-slavic-language
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