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So this whole contract between the sides can just be completely ignored on Charlie's end, that's the impression I've been getting every time the archons do anything.
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May 11, 2017 01:48
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Zoe posted:So this whole contract between the sides can just be completely ignored on Charlie's end, that's the impression I've been getting every time the archons do anything. That sort of thing is probably the reason no one likes carniemancers.
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May 11, 2017 02:01
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Zoe posted:So this whole contract between the sides can just be completely ignored on Charlie's end, that's the impression I've been getting every time the archons do anything. Basically, yeah. Charlie has so much more money than anybody else that the penalty he wrote into the contract (that would be ruinous for any side they've ever heard of) is just annoying for him. I mean, releasing huge amounts of money into the world is a problem for him, not least because it risks tipping people off about just how much money Charlie has, but he can do it if he really needs to and all it costs him is the trouble of taking all the money back later. There's a reason Charlie says he's in the business of not having a lose condition.
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May 11, 2017 02:13
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The real reason Charlie doesn't want to pay the penalty isn't because he's hurting for money, it's because Gobwin Knob can and will use any money they get to become a bigger problem for him. He almost won by bankrupting GK. That said, yeah, there are probably plenty of loopholes for him to exploit in the right circumstances. Also, I get the impression that Archons are so expensive to pop and upkeep, that he partly needs to be obscenely rich.
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May 11, 2017 08:42
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On the other hand croaking Wanda is absolutely worth it. Like... we brought it up last time talking about Toolism. If you croak a Tool, that's it. Everyones been thinking it'll be Stanley, but clearly, Wanda is the prize for Charlie. She's worth 5 Mil
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May 11, 2017 15:37
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Onmi posted:On the other hand croaking Wanda is absolutely worth it. Like... we brought it up last time talking about Toolism. If you croak a Tool, that's it. Everyones been thinking it'll be Stanley, but clearly, Wanda is the prize for Charlie. She's worth 5 Mil Wanda getting croaked would be a big hit against GK, setting aside the question of what exactly happens to all the Decrypted once she's gone. GK still has control over the Arkenpliers though, and Charlie is going to have to eat another 10m penalty to clean up loose ends with Ivan and Claude. We have an inkling now that the 'pliers revolve around manipulating strings, which could mean we might see them attuning to any other caster that manipulates them as part of their discipline. MK politics can get weird if Wanda gets croaked here. Parson pinkie swears that Charlie killed Wanda and now everyone's forced to wonder how not only GK but CC has units under bedrock. He can't explain how he knows because of the contract, but get enough Signamancers together and they could probably accept it even with Jojo's interference. All that is moot though, because we know she won't die (yet) as there's an active prediction in play. Unless Charlie plans on croaking and using her body as a gesture of goodwill with the MK, but that again tips his hand regarding being able to get below bedrock (and with Archons which aren't considered casters).
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May 11, 2017 16:07
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...if Charlie croaks Wanda it might kill all the Decrypted. As a direct result of Charlescomm's action, thousands of units would die and Charlie might owe Gobwin Knob 5 million schuckers for every last one. Even he doesn't have that kind of cash. Croaking Wanda might be a one hit suicide.
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May 11, 2017 17:16
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ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:...if Charlie croaks Wanda it might kill all the Decrypted. As a direct result of Charlescomm's action, thousands of units would die and Charlie might owe Gobwin Knob 5 million schuckers for every last one. Even he doesn't have that kind of cash. Croaking Wanda might be a one hit suicide. Then again Charlie might be able to Carnie himself into thinking that all the Decrypted dying was unintended and avoid the penalty. But he probably won't be willing to risk it.
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May 11, 2017 18:43
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That's an excellent reason why he won't kill Wanda, but I think he can safely off Rosenbratz and Guilderstone at this point. Ten millions should be an acceptable price for silencing them forever (as witnesses) and dusting them (as evidence), and it doesn't seem to me that they have much plot armour left for themselves.
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May 11, 2017 19:06
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Onmi posted:On the other hand croaking Wanda is absolutely worth it. Like... we brought it up last time talking about Toolism. If you croak a Tool, that's it. Everyones been thinking it'll be Stanley, but clearly, Wanda is the prize for Charlie. She's worth 5 Mil Charlie probably believes Wanda's line that killing an agent of Fate only results in something much worse, which is probably why he just broke Jillian's mind instead of killing her. But also, according to Wanda the destiny she's working towards is bringing the Arkentools together, so if Charlie just made her an offer she'd probably take it. And Charlie knows this.
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May 11, 2017 19:26
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Otherkinsey Scale posted:Charlie probably believes Wanda's line that killing an agent of Fate only results in something much worse, which is probably why he just broke Jillian's mind instead of killing her. And then Charlie would promptly regret it, since Wanda wouldn't want to fight Parson.
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May 12, 2017 01:57
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If Charlie kills Wanda, that's a huge win for him over Parson. If Charlie figures out how decryption works while having access to Wanda, he can rebuild his entire side as overpowered upkeep-free magically loyal archons. That's a huge win for him over the world.
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May 12, 2017 07:44
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so, i wonder if the charlieskull crest at the bottom of the new one means that she took the offer? generally when he ends his text updates with a picture, it's not illustrating what's happening in the update, it's what happened immediately after. so maybe. on the other hand, we did get to see parson in charlescomm raiment, and we haven't seen wanda in it, so who knows? in any case, i can see her turning and then, at some point, turning back. i'd like to see the isaac deiform do something. it's been set up for long enough and it's clearly extremely powerful. it might interfere with these proceedings when wanda is on the cusp of turning. of course, i expect tuesday we'll get a check in on faq, followed by a check in on marie and georgia, and then a couple more spacerock comics
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May 13, 2017 04:46
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This is incredibly tense. Honestly does she have a choice? If she refuses she gets shot. I mean... that's Charlie for you. "Do what I say or die."
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May 13, 2017 04:58
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Onmi posted:This is incredibly tense. Honestly does she have a choice? If she refuses she gets shot. I mean... that's Charlie for you. "Do what I say or die." Wanda doesn't actually believe it's possible for her to die, so to her it's totally a choice.
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May 13, 2017 05:30
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Well, this is also happening right now, remember. I'm unsure if Wanda knows about it, though. But Marie seems to think what she's doing really matters. e: No, Wanda must know about it, she was at least aware that Marie was decrypted.
TheDemon fucked around with this message at 06:30 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 06:26
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Thinking on it a bit more, what does it narratively mean for like Lilith, who despises Charlie, or Bonnie, who was literally just freed from his yoke. What does it mean for Bunnie who's in need of decryption, or Marie, who's currently fighting in Gobwin Knob. I mean... would Decrypted defect? As much as Lilith loves Wanda, I can't see her going back to Charlie. But then again, what about the Pliers. I guess any Decrypted could try to steal them. At the same time, could Sizemore get them to Wanda so she could make an escape. And what of Issac the Stringmancer? Obviously, the story has taken another twist to throw our protagonists into the fire. Parson has an assassin coming for him, Wanda, their point of failure is apparently heading to Charlescomm. Then again what if the deal is to be loyal to Charlie without turning, then croak Stanley? There's no heir for Gobwin Knob.
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May 13, 2017 06:29
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Called it. Maybe she tells him to croak himself and let her decrypt him, arguing it would restore him to full health. Or just the first part, after he pulled this on her.
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May 13, 2017 07:36
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The MK casters are still following the predictamamcer who says he knows where Wanda will pop up, so I wouldn't count on Charlie getting her safe and sound.
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May 13, 2017 07:53
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Wait, I feel like I missed something. Charlie's daughter?
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May 13, 2017 08:57
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my dad posted:Wait, I feel like I missed something. Charlie's daughter? Olive Branch, creator of the Heroine Buds and former master of Wanda. She was a text update/novella character.
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May 13, 2017 09:10
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Onmi posted:Thinking on it a bit more, what does it narratively mean for like Lilith, who despises Charlie, or Bonnie, who was literally just freed from his yoke. What does it mean for Bunnie who's in need of decryption, or Marie, who's currently fighting in Gobwin Knob. Their feelings on the matter are literally meaningless. Erfworld is kind of monstrous like that. But otherwise they're in a long line of characters this is going to be an Erf-shattering situation for (what happens to Caesar and all of TV, for that matter? Will Parson and Jack be compelled to fight them? Or after being forcibly turned to CC could Parson, obviously with zero loyalty to that side go 'nah' and turn to TV instead or something along those lines?) The fallout from this could take up an entire new book. (Any chances we're nearing the end of this one?) I do wonder what would happen to the Decrypted if Wanda just turned the regular way, without triggering the contract penalties, I wonder? Would they come along with her just like I'd assume regular uncroaked units would, or would they be with GK still? Besides how much this matters to the current situation, it also would make it clear whether she may eventually turn again and be fighting those she decrypted for Charlie, or whether she could remove a sizable portion of his army at once the next time she does her side switching thing. Anyway I actually don't care for Wanda much as a character, but right now she is poised to make some massive upheavals of the the status quo, possibly including becoming a villain which IMO she's better suited for and I am very down with this. Wanda just steamrolling the MK and saving the day for Our Heroes wouldn't have been very exciting, even if it was a comeuppance well deserved. e: forgot to add, I'd all but forgotten about the Arkenshoes. If the idea is to get them all together for [nebulous Fate reasons] wouldn't that mean they'd have to be retrieved from the real world? Meaning I guess it'd have to be Parson going to fetch them after all. A book being set in Kansas or wherever is uh, not what I'd have ever expected from this comic but I can't say I wouldn't enjoy it. Zoe fucked around with this message at 18:05 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 17:31
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Given that Ossomer turned to a different side on his own without any consequences, I don't think all the Decrypted would automatically become Charlescomm units if Wanda turned. I think they'd still have to turn normally, and while most of them would follow Wanda, some may well refuse (Jack, Marie, the Decrypted Archons), and others might not be given the chance (Parson could get Stanley to disband them before Charlie could contact them).
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May 13, 2017 19:01
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NihilCredo posted:Given that Ossomer turned to a different side on his own without any consequences, I don't think all the Decrypted would automatically become Charlescomm units if Wanda turned. Pretty sure the idea isn't "Wanda turns, all the decrypted turn". It's "Wanda voluntarily weak-punches archons until she's accrued enough penalties that every city, unit, and resource has to be given to Charlescomm to pay for it".
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May 13, 2017 23:38
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Bobulus posted:Pretty sure the idea isn't "Wanda turns, all the decrypted turn". It's "Wanda voluntarily weak-punches archons until she's accrued enough penalties that every city, unit, and resource has to be given to Charlescomm to pay for it". Of course  DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:so, i wonder if the charlieskull crest at the bottom of the new one means that she took the offer? generally when he ends his text updates with a picture, it's not illustrating what's happening in the update, it's what happened immediately after. so maybe. on the other hand, we did get to see parson in charlescomm raiment, and we haven't seen wanda in it, so who knows? in any case, i can see her turning and then, at some point, turning back. There's been at least a few times where the closing image depicted something that could have happened, but didn't. Off the top of my head - Parson wearing an armoured suit to the MK battle, Transylvito being attacked by Archons and defending through GK-turned bats.
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May 14, 2017 09:28
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Bobulus posted:Pretty sure the idea isn't "Wanda turns, all the decrypted turn". It's "Wanda voluntarily weak-punches archons until she's accrued enough penalties that every city, unit, and resource has to be given to Charlescomm to pay for it". If he can't get Wanda to do it, maybe the other 2 casters would.
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May 14, 2017 12:29
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I skimmed some posts on the official forums and now I'm wondering. Would Wanda see this as a situation where it doesn't matter if she joins Charlie or doesn't because Parson's Fated to kill him either way, or would she see it as a major problem, having a duty to stand in between her ruler and the guy destined to kill him? Though, given this is Wanda, things like duty and loyalty and all seem to have much less of a grip on her than the Fate stuff so the latter may never be an issue.
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May 15, 2017 00:25
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Zoe posted:I skimmed some posts on the official forums and now I'm wondering. Would Wanda see this as a situation where it doesn't matter if she joins Charlie or doesn't because Parson's Fated to kill him either way, or would she see it as a major problem, having a duty to stand in between her ruler and the guy destined to kill him? I don't think she's that ambivalent about the situation. Parson has been a strong an influence on her. She's probably going to try to game this and find some kind of opportunity here. Whether it's to help her, Parson, GK or whatever we'll have to see. But I imagine she's going to try to do something interesting with her conditions that might help things along one way or another.
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May 15, 2017 01:54
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I'd hope Wanda would resent Charlie enough for the bullshit from the end of the prequel novel, that being reminded of the flowers would inspire anger, not capitulation. But who knows what a character's going to do when their whole thing is "everything is inevitable."my dad posted:Wait, I feel like I missed something. Charlie's daughter? If you haven't read the prequel novel yet, do so.
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May 15, 2017 02:12
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Ditocoaf posted:I'd hope Wanda would resent Charlie enough for the bullshit from the end of the prequel novel, that being reminded of the flowers would inspire anger, not capitulation. But who knows what a character's going to do when their whole thing is "everything is inevitable." You aren't ever free of addiction. Wanda and Jillian discussed it, that if someone offered them one, they would find it hard to deny them.
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May 15, 2017 02:14
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Zoe posted:I skimmed some posts on the official forums and now I'm wondering. Would Wanda see this as a situation where it doesn't matter if she joins Charlie or doesn't because Parson's Fated to kill him either way, or would she see it as a major problem, having a duty to stand in between her ruler and the guy destined to kill him? Even though she sees it as inevitable that Parson will kill him, she also believes that doing anything to stand in the way of that will only make everyone suffer. The promise of the flower may be overriding that to some degree, but not absolutely or she wouldn't be insisting on conditions. Maybe she's doing the utilitarian mathamancy about how much worse she can make things before it outweighs the promised benefit. Personally, I'm hoping she is just setting herself up to backstab him, but the buds were set up as Charlie's ultimate trump card against her and Jillian so it really could go any way at this point.
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May 15, 2017 04:02
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Does Charlie have any source of information on Wanda's motives other than Jillian? ...who has been wrong in her bold assessments of Wanda's thinking almost all of the time?
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May 15, 2017 05:08
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ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:Does Charlie have any source of information on Wanda's motives other than Jillian? ...who has been wrong in her bold assessments of Wanda's thinking almost all of the time? Besides literally diving into her head to do some pruning at one point? No. But that's kind of enough.
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May 15, 2017 05:15
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Charlie promised (and signed a contract) to eradicate all his flowers, specifically so that he couldn't use them against Wanda and Jillian. Right now he's basically claiming to have failed to uphold that. Wanda may not even believe him.
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May 15, 2017 05:20
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Reene posted:Besides literally diving into her head to do some pruning at one point? No. But that's kind of enough. A lot has happened since then.
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May 15, 2017 09:32
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Ditocoaf posted:Charlie promised (and signed a contract) to eradicate all his flowers, specifically so that he couldn't use them against Wanda and Jillian. Right now he's basically claiming to have failed to uphold that. Wanda may not even believe him. He promised to get rid of his flowers, but what he's offering isn't actually the flowers, just some kind of Thinkamancy facsimile of them. It's a classic Charlie loophole. ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:A lot has happened since then. Her overriding motivations though (particularly re: fate) have not changed since then however. Charlie may be underestimating her respect for Parson though.
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May 15, 2017 09:40
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Reene posted:He promised to get rid of his flowers, but what he's offering isn't actually the flowers, just some kind of Thinkamancy facsimile of them. It's a classic Charlie loophole. Yes, but he's not letting on that he has a thinkamancy facsimile. He's claiming to just straight-up have flowers, like he promised would be impossible.
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May 15, 2017 17:07
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Saw that coming. Still kind of sad about it. Marie's going to turn, isn't she?
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May 17, 2017 03:43
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:of course, i expect tuesday we'll get a check in on faq whaddya know, i was right anyways, a lot to process. scratch off duncan, scratch off georgia. my guess is that what marie plans to do has something to do with what's happening with wanda and the contract, tying back to the Deal of a Lifetime (which, remember, Marie is out of-- it ends with your life, see Jack). maybe she's gonna bring back Jillian's jester? the jillian-charlie contract connection is what's springing to my mind since we just had a plot-pivotal update dealing with that very topic Reene posted:Saw that coming. Still kind of sad about it. no, if she wanted to do that she could easily have done it without freeing georgia power and murdering her way through faq's leadership corps. she's here to fetch jillian because she foresaw wanda would be in trouble in the MK and has some plan to deal with it involving jillian.
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May 17, 2017 03:44
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:no, if she wanted to do that she could easily have done it without freeing georgia power and murdering her way through faq's leadership corps. she's here to fetch jillian because she foresaw wanda would be in trouble in the MK and has some plan to deal with it involving jillian. But Power would have been completely on-board with any plan to go save Wanda. So why kill her, then?
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May 17, 2017 04:43
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