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Paxman posted:I think the right have got the message that they can't carry on as they were. Regardless of whether or not Corbyn's policies really are that different, the narrative is different now and much more popular. The old way was to pretend to be nice Tories while quietly doing left-wing things and while that worked for a bit it ended up alienating too many people. Having lurked in this thread off and on, it seems most of the posters are honestly open to an alternative to Corbyn but the issue is that the other choices have all been more or less the same (right) centrists. It would be great is a more politically astute version of Corbyn appeared but the question is are you willing to return to New Labour and completely capitulate? Also, Labour has been slowly recovering in the polls, and while they are down since 2015...the margin is certainly slimming and I think the entire narrative of Corbyn "killing" Labour has become long in the tooth. Labour is going to lose, there is no doubt, but honestly it has much more due to the Conservatives uniting Leave voters under their banner than anything else. Granted, if thats the case then not only is Britain screwed, Labour's best chance is to be an aggressive and vocal opposition and you are not going to get that from new Labour beyond the issue of Brexit.
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May 17, 2017 12:14
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Paxman posted:It's also a mistake to imagine that people who are unhappy with Corbyn are unhappy because they don't like policies such as borrowing to invest in infrastructure, putting money into the NHS, nationalising railways and other stuff that was in the manifesto earlier this week. They're unhappy because they think he's not very good at leading and that helps the Tories. Insert Blair-wouldn't-want-left-wing-Labour-to -win.txt here.
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May 17, 2017 12:23
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Ardennes posted:Having lurked in this thread off and on, it seems most of the posters are honestly open to an alternative to Corbyn but the issue is that the other choices have all been more or less the same (right) centrists. It would be great is a more politically astute version of Corbyn appeared but the question is are you willing to return to New Labour and completely capitulate? This is where I'm at, pretty much, yeah.
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May 17, 2017 12:25
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Guavanaut posted:Unironically agree. Skinner is cool.
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May 17, 2017 12:26
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Better make sure that the Labour Left is eviscerated in Parliament to make sure it's a success for the working class then.
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May 17, 2017 12:31
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Any new Labour leader will need to free of too much associations with the right wing of the party, otherwise the membership are just not going to trust anything they say. Plus members will be very careful in voting in anyone who might take power away from the membership. First things first though, the change on the number of nominations to get on the ballot has to get pushed through the NEC. Emily Thornberry looks like she might be the best "unity" candidate at the minute, she's pretty trusted by the left but appeals to the right on things like Trident.
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May 17, 2017 12:32
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Guavanaut posted:Better make sure that the Labour Left is eviscerated in Parliament to make sure it's a success for the working class then. it's not about eviscerating the Labour Left. he could've retired and Barking Labour stood a left-wing pre-European candidate years ago.
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May 17, 2017 12:34
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May 17, 2017 12:39
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Lib Dem manifesto is out http://www.libdems.org.uk/manifesto Unsurprising focus is on Brexit - "fighting a hard Brexit" and promising a referendum on the negotiation results. The main other point of note is a 1% increase on income tax (across all bands), with the proceeds ringfenced for health spending. Also will reverse cuts to Corp. tax. Few other snippets: - £100bn investment in infrastructure - Lower voting age to 16 - Will bring the two worst performing rail franchises under a Gov-run company - Will end bulk data collection, and won't oppose private encryption - End imprisonment for personal possession drug offenses - Suspend arms sales to Saudi - Commit to 2% defence spend and 0.7% aid spend - End to Continuous At Sea Deterrence - Mandate TV leaders' debates in future elections (lol) EDIT: Oh and completely missed they'll legalise and regulate (not decriminalise, but full-on legalise) weed. Ewan fucked around with this message at 12:46 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 12:41
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lol they’re too chickenshit to outright nullify the referendum
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May 17, 2017 12:51
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Cerv posted:there can be no successful Brexit. he should've voted against it in the first place. Doesn't sound like her family is very religious.
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May 17, 2017 12:53
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Wait they'll keep Trident but stop using it in the only way that makes it useful? Jesus christ even this thread managed to come to an agreement that that was the worst of all worlds.
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May 17, 2017 12:53
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namesake posted:Wait they'll keep Trident but stop using it in the only way that makes it useful? Yeah, that immediately stood out to me as particularly dumb- it's a cost cutting measure to only procure three Dreadnoughts rather than 4. quote:maintaining the deterrent through measures such as unpredictable and irregular patrolling patterns. 
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May 17, 2017 13:02
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namesake posted:Wait they'll keep Trident but stop using it in the only way that makes it useful? Trident isn't useful though? Apart from being a job creation scheme I guess.
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May 17, 2017 13:03
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For everyone who thinks replacing Corbyn with literally anyone would improve Labours fortunes, some evidence for you! http://uk.businessinsider.com/poll-jeremy-corbyn-is-a-bigger-vote-winner-than-tony-blair-general-election-labour-2017-5 More people say they would vote for Labour led by Jeremy Corbyn than if it was led by Tony Blair, Yvette Cooper, Ed Milliband or Sadiq Khan.
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May 17, 2017 13:25
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Ewan posted:- Will bring the two worst performing rail franchises under a Gov-run company Why only and exactly two, what is the reasoning behind that? Other than to be somewhere in between Nationalised and Privatised of course.
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May 17, 2017 13:26
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:Well he has managed to get his prospects from "Whitewashed" up to "Around the same as his predecessor" although the snap election has actually helped him in that regard.
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May 17, 2017 13:28
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Theresa May was just over the road from me in Canary Wharf an hour ago, saying the Labour manifesto is "nonsensical". Boy, the Tories sure have limited their vocabulary lately.
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May 17, 2017 13:29
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It's called Coherent Messaging, and it works, even if it is insufficiently ~nuanced~ for the thread.
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May 17, 2017 13:30
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jabby posted:For everyone who thinks replacing Corbyn with literally anyone would improve Labours fortunes, some evidence for you! Yvette Cooper has the biggest potential upside in the form of don't knows though. The incumbent always gets a bit of a boost in terms of name recognition.
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May 17, 2017 13:30
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jBrereton posted:Have people forgotten that the government's majority this time was something of a surprise to a lot of people or something? We're busy recalibration our definition of electoral success from 'forming a government' to 'not losing by more than 150 seats'.
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May 17, 2017 13:30
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What if after Brexit the UK joins in a international compact with the US!??
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May 17, 2017 13:31
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Lightning Lord posted:What if after Brexit the UK joins in a international compact with the US!?? i loving hope not because it'll end up wtih us adopting their insanely bad standards for things. pizza is a vegetable well ok then 
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May 17, 2017 13:32
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Lightning Lord posted:What if after Brexit the UK joins in a international compact with the US!?? BRI-TIP?
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May 17, 2017 13:33
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Given that China has just announced it's going to be pushing a green energy and multi-country distribution platform for a "new world order", I'm not sure that's a dying empire I want to be hitched to.
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May 17, 2017 13:34
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Trident isn't useful though? Apart from singlehandedly making invasion of the UK impossible? It's the rest of the military that's pointless.
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May 17, 2017 13:35
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Lightning Lord posted:What if after Brexit the UK joins in a international compact with the US!?? What if after the inevitable failed Trump impeachment the Queen launches Trident at Mar-a-Lago???
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May 17, 2017 13:35
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Noxville posted:Why only and exactly two, what is the reasoning behind that? Other than to be somewhere in between Nationalised and Privatised of course. As a result of severe failings that rise to the level of breach of contract, establish government-run companies to take over the running of Southern Rail and Govia Thameslink, with a long-term plan to find more effective and sustainable ways of managing these franchises involving greater powers for local government.
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May 17, 2017 13:40
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Regarde Aduck posted:Apart from singlehandedly making invasion of the UK impossible? It's the rest of the military that's pointless. The only country in the world that can even pull off an overseas invasion is the US, and in the case that they decide to conquer Old Blighty I don't think Trident is going to be very helpful.
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May 17, 2017 13:40
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Party Boat posted:What if after the inevitable failed Trump impeachment the Queen launches Trident at Mar-a-Lago??? it’s florida so nothing of value was lost
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May 17, 2017 13:41
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I hope we don't dynamite the chunnel when there is a near inevitable war with the continent at some time in my life.
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May 17, 2017 13:45
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tee hee hee http://strongandstable.party/
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May 17, 2017 13:46
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Wait so the lib dems would increase taxes for literally everyone rather than targeting at all? Am I reading that right?
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May 17, 2017 13:46
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Wait so the lib dems would increase taxes for literally everyone rather than targeting at all? Am I reading that right?
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May 17, 2017 13:48
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Regarde Aduck posted:Apart from singlehandedly making invasion of the UK impossible? It's the rest of the military that's pointless. Cerebral Bore posted:The only country in the world that can even pull off an overseas invasion is the US, and in the case that they decide to conquer Old Blighty I don't think Trident is going to be very helpful. Jose posted:pizza is a vegetable well ok then
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May 17, 2017 13:49
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jBrereton posted:I hope we don't dynamite the chunnel when there is a near inevitable war with the continent at some time in my life. Send in the SAS boys
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May 17, 2017 13:55
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Wait so the lib dems would increase taxes for literally everyone rather than targeting at all? Am I reading that right? Yep. Regressive taxes, the cornerstone of liberalism.
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May 17, 2017 14:02
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Jose posted:pizza is a vegetable well ok then cos of the tomato sauce, you see
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May 17, 2017 14:04
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Wait so the lib dems would increase taxes for literally everyone rather than targeting at all? Am I reading that right? 1% increase for anyone who earns enough to pay any income tax, currently £11,500 a year.
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May 17, 2017 14:05
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Zephro posted:Pretty sure pizza is a fruit
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May 17, 2017 14:05
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