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Papal Mainframe posted:But those fearsome arty Abbadons?! providence uses nightmares now
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May 16, 2017 09:43
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Reverand maynard posted:providence uses nightmares now Not very well though  But they did have a bunch of dudes in Arty Abbadons last night v0v
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May 16, 2017 11:33
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Reverand maynard posted:providence uses nightmares now Been moving towards the abbadons because we are finally realizing that EM/Therm only does very badly against Proteus fleet with 2 EM and 1 Therm hardener
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May 16, 2017 19:23
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FranktheBank posted:Been moving towards the abbadons because we are finally realizing that EM/Therm only does very badly against Proteus fleet with 2 EM and 1 Therm hardener
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May 16, 2017 19:33
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Abbadons are tankier and cheaper iirc.
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May 16, 2017 19:43
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:yeah well the current system is totally one sided, either remove jfs from the game and just allow stuff to magically fly toward you at the normal jf rate with prices or make them interactable outside of the mentally disabled. Are you one of those unironic "Delete local!!" nerds?
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May 16, 2017 19:52
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LemonDrizzle posted:Why not just use Machariels like everyone else? I've stopped asking questions a long time ago.
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May 16, 2017 19:56
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LemonDrizzle posted:Why not just use Machariels like everyone else? They're roleplaying and so they want to use stuff that could be built or "captured" in their space or something? Beats me.
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May 16, 2017 20:00
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Good Dumplings posted:They're roleplaying and so they want to use stuff that could be built or "captured" in their space or something? Beats me. Abbadons look cool and are pretty decent so good for them, I say.
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May 16, 2017 20:26
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vulvamancer posted:Just make sure you keep enough isk on hand to replace them after the inevitable dread bomb. that's why you keep the 31st account in a cyno ship 
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May 16, 2017 23:53
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Alternately, be the insane man that splits his multiboxed roraquals over multiple systems.
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May 16, 2017 23:55
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L0cke17 posted:Abbadons are tankier and cheaper iirc. t1 battleships really aren't cheaper than faction battleships at this point. Yeah the base hull is cheaper but the bulk of the cost is in rigs and modules. a fully fit nightmare is like 450m, a t1 battleship is gonna be 340m.
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May 17, 2017 01:39
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I would argue that T1 battleships are easier to work with for a smaller fleet because they make for less juicy killmails and do help avoid the wrong type of attention.
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May 17, 2017 10:34
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Reverand maynard posted:t1 battleships really aren't cheaper than faction battleships at this point. Yeah the base hull is cheaper but the bulk of the cost is in rigs and modules. a fully fit nightmare is like 450m, a t1 battleship is gonna be 340m. Nightmares insure like absolute dogshit though? T1 battleships you can defray a lot of the isk loss to the line member via insurance and thus preserve your srp fund if you have one. If you don't have one it's even more important to preserve line members isk if you want them showing up in any number. I can get maybe 50m back on platinum insurance from a nightmare, but a T1 bs insures for 80% of value. orange juche fucked around with this message at 10:41 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 10:39
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pretty sure the insurance values are roughly the same, just the faction hulls have the added costs of requiring a bpc
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May 17, 2017 10:50
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If you don't have SRP in TYOOL 2017, you are probably poo poo.
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May 17, 2017 11:49
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mlyp
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May 17, 2017 11:52
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Wibla posted:If you don't have SRP in TYOOL 2017, you are probably poo poo. Provibloc are pretty tight fisted, iirc. They don't really share funds and lmao that ratting space sucks poo poo. Related: provibloc is pretty poo poo.
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May 17, 2017 12:02
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 orange juche posted:Provibloc are pretty tight fisted, iirc. They don't really share funds and lmao that ratting space sucks poo poo. It's amazing what you can wring out of a region if you actually do things right, but Proviblock isn't really a posterboy for doing things right.
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May 17, 2017 12:06
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Wibla posted:
For all the energy they put into making GBS threads station eggs and bridges and beacons all over Providence, they sure as gently caress don't get anything approaching a decent return on investment from their space.
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May 17, 2017 12:14
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Something that always bothered me about SRP programs is the method by which they are funded, and my experience with people bad at EVE dying so much and such expensive poo poo, that it would not ultimately be sustainable on a macro level. Then again goons made it work so Rather than an SRP program, I would like to see a Pilot Proficiency Requirement. Where an alliance will give you the ship at no cost to you, if you can demonstrate you are not incompetent at using it. I especially would like to see this idea forwarded to capital ships, I know in GSF it is easy to have isk thrown at you in piles, but everywhere else it's a grind to really get isk without spending a fairly large amount of time or a lot of consistent time farming. Even incursions can't drop isk on you in the billions without pretty substantial time in it. A poo poo fit carrier costs about 2bil fully fit if you are going hyper cheap and mostly T1 capital mod fittings. A noob in a VNI is going to take a while at around 60mil an hour not counting escalations or faction mods. The carrier has to run for a day or two to recover it's loss but if you are not pants on head screeching retarded you should have a good 100+ hours of runtime in a carrier without even getting into structure. With eve now pretty much requiring a industrial backbone for capital asset production of some form and the glorious proliferation of rorquals, I think this should be very possible to do logistically and be even beneficial as it will let you churn mineral assets into weapons faster. What do I know though, could be what is done in places that actually have 23/7 grinder fleets of rorquals.
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May 17, 2017 12:15
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Worlds Smuggest posted:Something that always bothered me about SRP programs is the method by which they are funded, and my experience with people bad at EVE dying so much and such expensive poo poo, that it would not ultimately be sustainable on a macro level. Then again goons made it work so So how do you measure that? Paplinks? Green status of the kill board? Some dumbass pilot proficiency requirement with no advice on how one would actually gauge such a thing seems kinda hmmmmmmmmmm. Besides, SRP utilization is not an isk negative thing, people don't submit for SRP most of the time which means the alliance doesn't have to pay a poo poo ton of SRP out. If it is isk negative for the alliance it gets curtailed, srp is not a hard and fast requirement all the time. Alliance peacetime srp used to be abused, which is why it is capped at 1b/mo.
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May 17, 2017 12:22
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SRP in its purest sense is an enhanced insurance enabling members to spend less time ratting/mining and more time pvping (if they want to). As for funding, well... that depends on your corp/alliance.
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May 17, 2017 12:35
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The buff to anomaly spawn rates in crap space that rode in on Fozziesov actually improved the quality of Providence quite a bit. It's also got decent capital geography. When we were deciding where to abscond to in 2016, Providence was actually on my short list of places to go. (Delve was so much better, though, and the crap quality of the squatters occupying it at the time meant that this is actually the first time I've mentioned this to anyone.) However, five years of Greyscale-caused anomaly castration (jesus christ that is sure a phrase) has left Provi's longtime residents at an inherent disadvantage compared to anyone with any actual aspirations for decent space. NDRS also contributes; Providence has met the limit on total number of standings entries for years now, requiring an external website to manage their red list. This negatively impacts their security quite a bit, ensuring that they never really had the critical mass of PVE to make something of themselves.
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May 17, 2017 12:48
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On the other hand they're e-honoure shitlords and its well and truly past time since someone sent them shrieking off to highsec where they belong. The whole concept of NRDS is gross.
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May 17, 2017 12:50
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mlyp
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May 17, 2017 13:03
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Wibla posted:mlyp 
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May 17, 2017 13:26
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orange juche posted:So how do you measure that? Paplinks? Green status of the kill board? Some dumbass pilot proficiency requirement with no advice on how one would actually gauge such a thing seems kinda hmmmmmmmmmm. Yeah, that's also part of the problem, at least when you scale it up. I've thought about what qualitative metrics you could use but for the most part it comes down to how much poo poo do you lose and what skills in general do you have on the character, like if you crash things into the sun etc.
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May 17, 2017 16:17
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Not to get all political, but if you think about it, GSF SRP would make American politicians howl. It's a single payer system (socialism!) with monthly caps on benefits (death panels!) administered by the central state (beltway!) and funded by a flat tax (the rich don't pay their share!).
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May 17, 2017 16:28
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people being surprised at GSF's decade-old socialism itt SRP works great because it scales to tens of thousands of dudes. Review panels determining the handout of free ships based on pilot skill requires an order of magnitude more manpower to administer. Maybe more.
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May 17, 2017 16:39
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:people being surprised at GSF's decade-old socialism itt Not to mention if we got srp because of skill nobody would get a dime
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May 17, 2017 16:44
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The really draconian way to implement it is on a purely time served in the line of duty as part of incentives programs, but I dunno, I've always been fond of meritocracy.
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May 17, 2017 17:05
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:NDRS also contributes; Providence has met the limit on total number of standings entries for years now, requiring an external website to manage their red list. This negatively impacts their security quite a bit, ensuring that they never really had the critical mass of PVE to make something of themselves. NRDS is a loving nightmare for them. Back when Fweddit (lol) was in it's infancy, and I was a director (the horror) we took 20 Thrashers, 5 Stabbers, a few Honoure Rifters and a Dominix to 9-F0B and got some day 1 players dank frags while they called a director at 2am for authorization to engage us. Good times. Worlds Smuggest posted:Rather than an SRP program, I would like to see a Pilot Proficiency Requirement. And what crimes against humanity would get 'volunteers' to audit this nonsense? EVE has enough spreadsheets, no need to invent reasons to make more. Xolve fucked around with this message at 17:48 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 17:45
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vyst posted:Not to mention if we got srp because of skill nobody would get a dime this is the real issue goons are bad at video games
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May 17, 2017 17:47
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Zephyrine posted:I would argue that T1 battleships are easier to work with for a smaller fleet because they make for less juicy killmails and do help avoid the wrong type of attention. No. Just no. Small fleets of battleships just scream 'drop dreads/carriers on me'. Also  at 'less juicy killmails', it's 2017, who cares?
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May 17, 2017 17:50
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ChickenWing posted:goons are bad at video games Not empty-quoting.
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May 17, 2017 18:07
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Worlds Smuggest posted:Something that always bothered me about SRP programs is the method by which they are funded, and my experience with people bad at EVE dying so much and such expensive poo poo, that it would not ultimately be sustainable on a macro level. Then again goons made it work so I don't get why you're bothered by the method they're funded? And the people dying in expensive poo poo is why most SRP programs only cover an approved list of ships & fits. It's only unsustainable on the marco level if you are losing all your fights in a war, in which case you have bigger problems than just running out of money. For one thing, most alliances run out of morale long before they run out of money. Worlds Smuggest posted:the Pee Pee Program The main issue you have here is that you've got a fundamental misconception of what SRP is actually for. SRP exists so you can take a whupping or two and still have people x'ing up for the next fight. Ignore what GSF does in times of largess and go back to the roots, when SRP was only for StratOps. We had a major advantage over a number of opponents who didn't have any type of SRP because their members would stop showing up after losing a couple ships. They had to replace their own ships which both drained their fleet numbers and made them horribly vulnerable to economic warfare from cloaky camping. The other flaw in your plan is that handing out anything *in advance* is always a bad idea, at least in a big group like most null alliances. GSF has tried it a couple times, and it had terrible ROI. Worlds Smuggest posted:but I dunno, I've always been fond of meritocracy. Everyone's fond of meritocracy. The problem is deciding what "merit" is and devising an un-gameable system to reward it. Probably easier to do in Eve than IRL, but still quite difficult.
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May 17, 2017 18:14
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EVE is so boring these days. Need a symmetrical war to keep people entertained, CCP need to add some conflict drivers for 0.0.
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May 17, 2017 18:20
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Klyith posted:The other flaw in your plan is that handing out anything *in advance* is always a bad idea, at least in a big group like most null alliances. GSF has tried it a couple times, and it had terrible ROI. This is probably the most important information. I dunno, it's a cool concept but the sociopath simulator nature of the game rends it pointless. 
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May 17, 2017 18:32
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given how cheap faction BS and the fact that they're such a huge improvement over t1 in tank and mobility the idea that t1 battleships can trade losses with faction battleships is absurd. This was the case when faction BS cost 600-700m a pop but right now you need to kill like 1.3 faction battleships for every loss you take. Maelstrom fleets (which have six mid slots) are loving retarded.
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May 17, 2017 19:05
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