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Can you imagine Duterte with a twitter account? He'd rival Trump for outlandishness.
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May 5, 2017 03:49
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MrMojok posted:Can you imagine Duterte with a twitter account? He'd rival Trump for outlandishness. This is true, which is why it's super disappointing that the President doesn't even own a cellphone
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May 5, 2017 04:10
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Random thought: Can other countries recommend better flags for other countries ala referendums? Because Thailand and Indonesia's flags look like poo poo. Indonesia could use:  OR  And Thailand could use:  OR  OR 
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May 5, 2017 07:04
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Those are nice flags but they don't look very good if downscaled
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May 5, 2017 07:23
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I mean European-style flags that are just colored stripes don't look good at any size. So you might as well have a flag that looks good at one size.
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May 5, 2017 07:42
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Indonesia, aka reverse poland
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May 5, 2017 08:10
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MrMojok posted:Can you imagine Duterte with a twitter account? He'd rival Trump for outlandishness. goon project: Get Duterte on twitter.
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May 8, 2017 22:25
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Hello again, thread! Very recently, The Atlantic published an article by the late Alex Tizon, a Pulitzer-prize-winning Filipino-American journalist. My Family’s Slave: A Story of Slavery in Modern America It talks about a woman, Eudocia Tomas Pulido, a "gift" from Tizon's maternal grandfather, who was the family's nanny and domestic helper/caretaker. I bring this up because I'm seeing a lot of friction on social media, particularly from the woker parts of Twitter that I'm exposed to, of western liberals taking issue with Filipinos for perpetuating "modern slavery", versus Filipinos invoking cultural relativism and the need to understand Filipino culture before passing judgement. So, if you'd like, I invite you to read the piece, and if you have any questions, maybe I and the other Filipinos in this thread can offer our perspective. To begin, I'd like to clarify that "lola" translates to "grandmother". It's not anywhere near the equivalent of the racially-charged "mammy" for African-Americans.
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May 17, 2017 16:45
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gradenko_2000 posted:Hello again, thread! So what do I need to understand about Filipino culture before I can pass judgement on something like this? I always found it kind of off putting that Filipinos seem to always expect someone to clean up after them (for example, just look at a food court at the mall in the Philippines compared to one in the US) and, at times, seem to have no idea how to be independent.
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May 17, 2017 17:48
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ihatepants posted:So what do I need to understand about Filipino culture before I can pass judgement on something like this? I always found it kind of off putting that Filipinos seem to always expect someone to clean up after them (for example, just look at a food court at the mall in the Philippines compared to one in the US) and, at times, seem to have no idea how to be independent. It's a form of cultural conditioning. The types who can afford to go to the mall, generally can afford some sort of housekeeper or have some relative or friend with one and imitate their habits of leaving poo poo lying around for someone else to pick up. Not everyone has it, but a good number do. I haven't been to the Philippines in a while so I'm not at all up to date on how Filipino culture is with regards to class, but in my experience, if the family could afford a house, they could generally also afford some sort of live-in maid. How they were treated is basically up to the people who hired them. At best, the person becomes part of the family. Yes, they're still expected to take care of certain things and they're paid for their services in addition to room and board, but it's almost no different from having a family member who really likes to clean and cook. At worst...yeah. It's a sort of relationship that was more common when servants were a more normal part of life for the upper or even upper middle class.
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May 17, 2017 18:00
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I'm getting hot takes from people getting all defensive that the decadent Westerners just don't understand how it works here, and it's pissing me off. Pulido was treated like a slave, plain and simple, but some people are interpreting the criticism as an attack on how their parents/relatives worked their asses off as servants for a pittance to raise their families. Talk about missing the loving point, Christ.
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May 17, 2017 18:55
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When I lived in the Philippines people were shocked that I didn't have at least one servant, and in richer places it's usually at least 4 at a time (driver, guard, young maid who cleans/irons/does laundry, older maid who cooks/shops/looks after pets & children). My girlfriend at the time was European and was there as part of diplomatic mission and she was >required< to have servants, as in it was part of the residence placement. My take on it is that woman in the article was a slave pure and simple and that the Philippines' view on class and servants is a hosed up one. Sure it's possible to have essentially benign dictatorship situations (as my girlfriend's servants did), but without any concrete rules in place to ensure equitable treatment it doesn't matter if some of the situations are good, because there's no guarantee that none of them can be bad. And I heard some bad bad stories when I was over there. There's a little twitter storm right now on searches for "my maid ran away" that has some great examples of entitlement.
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May 17, 2017 21:23
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People probably need to realise that if you're using the phrase 'ran away' you did not have a healthy or moral relation with your employee.
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May 17, 2017 23:35
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The author misrepresented his relationship with Pulido at the time of her death (right around the time he pitched and began working on the eventual Atlantic piece), in what sounds like pretty blatant outright lying: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...rticle_left_1.1 As far as the larger ramifications, I agree that the slavery on display here is much different from the history & context of chattel slavery in the US, but to claim cultural relativism as a way of deflecting any sort of inter or intra-community discussion is complete bullshit. The idea that "Western" perspectives aren't appropriate is pretty laughable given how this woman spent the majority of her life in the US, and the Atlantic article was explicitly written with a Western audience in mind. Also slavery is slavery, regardless of cultural context. Some fairly prominent "social justice" folks on twitter have been getting attacked all day by Filipinx & Filipinx-American folks for daring to call out the more problematic aspects of Tizon's story and behavior, specifically how he profited from Pulido's labor in his own house for ~20 years, only compensated her at the near end of her life, centered himself in the Atlantic article rather than the actual victim of his family's crimes, etc (although some have been pushing back against that). https://twitter.com/ubeempress/status/864899380712689664 Of course you could also take the opposite tack like others have and claim that "the slave/master dynamic has evolved" in Filipino culture and therefore the entire story is exempt from any criticism or analysis  
Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 00:35 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 00:30
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Growing up, my family had our share of servants throughout the years. We treated them a lot better than average and paid for one's vocational school as well. But I'd rather not follow in that practice once I have my own family. It feels wrong, even if there are now laws in place to protect them. The family in the article treated Pulido as a slave, though, and I condemn it.
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May 18, 2017 01:56
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Thing is, you can go back to the ancient world and even more recent recent to find examples of non chattel slavery that brought slaves into the household and even eventually saw them released to lead successful lives. Is returning to Roman era slavery really something Filipinos want to point to as an amazing evolution of what they're doing.
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May 18, 2017 02:21
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I want to make it absolutely clear that the story as Tizon presents it absolutely does make out Pulido as a slave. There's no two ways about it, and even bringing her to the United States is something I would consider to be human trafficking. Yes, there is a cultural tradition in the Philippines for families to employ maids/househelp. There have been efforts to rationalize these into more properly paid working relationships, such as a Domestic Worker Law passed in 2013 that mandates that maids be given minimum wage, government benefits, and guaranteed leave and rest hours, but the actual enforcement may still leave something to be desired. None of that excuses what was done to Pulido, and especially since in her case, the working relationship was very much worse than that. I guess the crux of the pushback comes from people feeling insulted that this is being compared to African-American chattel slavery, but after reflecting upon it overnight, I don't really know if that's even a distinction with a difference. I could go on about how "when my family had maids, they always ate what we ate, and we never treated them different, and over time we considered them family", but ultimately the power dynamics are still greatly skewed and exploitative. I opened this can of worms, and now I feel like I engaged in some embarrassing "heritage not hate"-type handwaving.
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May 18, 2017 02:32
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gradenko_2000 posted:I guess the crux of the pushback comes from people feeling insulted that this is being compared to African-American chattel slavery, but after reflecting upon it overnight, I don't really know if that's even a distinction with a difference. I could go on about how "when my family had maids, they always ate what we ate, and we never treated them different, and over time we considered them family", but ultimately the power dynamics are still greatly skewed and exploitative. That's literally one of the arguments that ex-Confederates (and modern slavery deniers or historical revisionists) use. That other slaveowners might have been bad, but in OUR family OUR slaves were well-treated and happy. Or the argument that people were happier and better taken care of under slavery (I saw someone make the argument today that had Pulido been "freed" that she would've been destitute and worse off than she was with the Tizon's, so therefore she was better off with them). Basically yeah this entire Atlantic piece has revealed some really gross rhetoric that isn't necessarily inherent to any particular culture.
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May 18, 2017 02:43
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Putting up American slavery as some sort of special kind of evil reminds me of Republicans making a big to do about whether or not a rape was forcible.
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May 18, 2017 02:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:I want to make it absolutely clear that the story as Tizon presents it absolutely does make out Pulido as a slave. There's no two ways about it, and even bringing her to the United States is something I would consider to be human trafficking. Bolding mine. That's the real crux of the matter, I think. If they could have the leverage to still have food, money and shelter if they felt like conditions weren't good, that'd be one thing, but generally the maids don't really have much ability to operate independently. The difference with chattel slavery and this sort is that the power dynamics are skewed even further. It's just different degrees of the same "rife with abuse potential" relationship. Law enforcement in everything is fairly lax in the Philippines (drug laws only the exception in all classes but the upper) so that's nothing new. But it's at least some effort. The other thing is that Filipino pride is really pig headed and dumb.
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May 18, 2017 03:46
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Cigarettes are out: http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/19/healt...linkId=37776611
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May 19, 2017 17:50
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CommieGIR posted:Cigarettes are out: http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/19/healt...linkId=37776611 Well, at least that helps to offset all the people murdered through his drug war!
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May 19, 2017 22:40
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Why are most Filipino naming standards still Spanish?
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May 20, 2017 19:51
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Three hundred years of Spanish colonialism, mixed in with most of the upper class from that time being mestizo?
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May 20, 2017 20:25
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Ytlaya posted:Well, at least that helps to offset all the people murdered through his drug war! Duterte is still horrible, but if his public smoking ban holds up, it will make up his extrajudicial killings 100-fold in the form of extended lifespans.
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May 21, 2017 10:16
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Please enjoy the Duterte quote of the day http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/05/19/17/duterte-america-will-collapse-one-dayquote:"[Sometimes the problem with America isn't the president,] it's the State Department, which is really multi-colored. [They stab each other all the time.] That's why America will really collapse one of these days, maybe in 50 to 100 years, because of its multi-racial thing. [Everyone just keeps inserting their own values.]"
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May 21, 2017 11:03
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Does...does he think that the Phillipines is composed of a single race...?
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May 21, 2017 19:55
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Not that I'm trying to look a gift horse in the mouth, or saying that the Philippine Congress is as "paralyzed" as the American Congress, but it's kind of ... ominous? that he had to do the smoking ban and Freedom of Information as EOs.
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May 22, 2017 03:03
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Smoking there's no way he would have got through with all the money PMFTC and Marlboro throws around lobbying.
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May 22, 2017 03:29
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The other big news lately is the implementation of the Anti-Distracted Driving Law, which was one of the last pieces of legislation passed by the previous Congress. A lot of the pushback from motorists seems to come from: 1. the guideline that gadgets behind the windshield is disallowed, and that they should be mounted below the dashboard/console instead. People feel that it's actually more costly in terms of attention to have to look at something below your sightline, than something aligned with your windshield 2. the idea that it's a distraction to have Waze/Google Maps running in your phone in the first place, even if you don't touch/manipulate it 3. corrupt cops enforcing the law inconsistently/incorrect/aggressively, just to pull over more people who are otherwise abiding by the officially released guidelines There's also the feeling that this law is perhaps too targeted at gadgets specifically, when Filipino drivers tend to have all sorts of other trinkets and decorations on their dashboards and windshields that could also provide to be line-of-sight obstacles, if not also cognitive distractions. Just this afternoon, a government official said that even these things will be included in the ban as well come this Friday, but then that carries with it even more potential for abuse by overzealous traffic cops.
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May 22, 2017 09:57
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CrosspostingNonsense posted:https://twitter.com/JEMINSE0K/status/866977792444977153 Correction: The city has not been razed, but there are firefights and a hospital has been captured.
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May 23, 2017 12:45
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Local coverage: http://www.philstar.com/nation/2017/05/23/1702840/troops-maute-group-clash-marawi-city The Maute Group isn't literally ISIS, if we value such distinctions. They're radicalized, and armed, and dangerous, but they've mostly just taken to flying the ISIS flag but probably aren't directly coordinating with or receiving support from them.
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May 23, 2017 12:49
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https://twitter.com/PTVph/status/866966544961511424 https://twitter.com/ANCALERTS/status/867022270962647041 https://twitter.com/gmanews/status/867024506778304512 Permit me to say that I have zero confidence in the government outlets providing accurate or truthful information
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May 23, 2017 15:36
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gradenko_2000 posted:Local coverage: http://www.philstar.com/nation/2017/05/23/1702840/troops-maute-group-clash-marawi-city As far as can be said then is that they seem to be ISIS inspired and probably want to be allied, but no official/direct connection?
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May 23, 2017 15:41
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Dameius posted:As far as can be said then is that they seem to be ISIS inspired and probably want to be allied, but no official/direct connection? Yes. Mindanao has been a hotbed of insurrectionism since at least the 70s (and on the whole dating back much farther than that), and there's been some connections with groups like the Jemaah Islamiya because of the proximity to Sabah, Indonesia, but no, they're not directly connected to ISIS beyond pledging fealty/allegiance to them and adopting the same flag.
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May 23, 2017 15:46
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It appears that this is the official line from the AFP: https://twitter.com/cnnphilippines/status/867034063088959488 I'm trying really hard not to editorialize, but I don't know that anyone's going to buy "this was a legit op launched by the military proactively, we have it under control, the rest of it is 'diversionary tactics' by sympathizers" considering they set a college and a prison on fire and took hostages at a hospital.
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May 23, 2017 16:17
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Can I just refer you to this thread if you want updates because I don't want to keep just cross-posting: https://www.reddit.com/live/yz9htbjsixiy I promise we try our hardest to not be a "we did it reddit Boston bomber" kind of community. Anyway, the latest news in the last few minutes is that the President has just declared Martial Law in Mindanao for the next 60 days. I should mention that the President is current in Moscow for a trip to meet with Putin.
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May 23, 2017 16:28
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I'm sure Duterte will find a way to pin this on the US somehow.
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May 23, 2017 19:56
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Well, if W hadn't invaded Iraq...
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May 23, 2017 20:07
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Oh boy, where to start? Okay, let's go mild, with Trump's glowing private endorsement of Duterte's war on drugsquote:... But more fun is Duterte's speech today, in response to the attacks in Marawi City! I've only got a news link but I'm trying to find a full transcript, with no luck. quote:Duterte Suggests Martial Law Across Philippines, Citing Islamist Threat And keep in mind that last year, Duterte laughed these guys off: quote:The Maute Group has threatened to burn Marawi City if the Armed Forces of the Philippines would not stop its offensive against the bandits, President Rodrigo Duterte said on Monday. And what's really pissing me off is the apologists going "it sucks but who else can we trust to take a hard stance against these guys," as well as my pro-Duterte cheerleader friends who are linking to these announcements, with the remark, "Look what you did, Maute group." NO. DUTERTE DID THIS YOU IDIOTS. Lastly, gently caress this poo poo 
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May 24, 2017 12:42
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