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it's never coming out lolquote:Jon Shafer was 21 years old when he became lead designer of Civilization V. Now working at Paradox on an unannounced project and on his own historical strategy game At The Gates in his spare time,
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May 17, 2017 21:47
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I've never backed a game on KS, is there no clause that lets you get your money back if the guy just stops working on it?
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May 17, 2017 22:39
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GrossMurpel posted:I've never backed a game on KS, is there no clause that lets you get your money back if the guy just stops working on it? well, it's complicated. Technically not creating "something" goes against kickstarters terms of service. The problem is that kickstarter itself isn't willing to fight that battle, so outside of actually suing the guy who hosed you over there's not a whole lot you can do.
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May 17, 2017 22:56
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GrossMurpel posted:I've never backed a game on KS, is there no clause that lets you get your money back if the guy just stops working on it? That's the annoying part of Kickstarter: there isn't. Essentially, what you're doing with kickstarter is giving someone money in the vain hope that what you will actually be released, and actually resembles what you wanted to get. There's a real risk of the product not delivering, occasionally because they just ran of with the money, usually because the people involved have massively overestimated their skills and money just ran out. And it's really difficult to get your money back from someone who's mostly bankrupt. I'd argue it's never a good idea to back a kickstarter.
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May 17, 2017 23:01
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I haven't backed something since KS was the newest rage and everyone and their dog had a new project and even then I think I only ever paid for about 3 things. Of those Wasteland 2 and Carmagaeddon have been released, I doubt Star Citizen ever will be but I guess it technically hasn't been cancelled or abandoned either. Really my advice on that would be use common sense before giving someone your money but seeing as how the people behind AtG and Star Citizen were fairly well known industry insiders that obviously doesn't always apply. I don't mind having made Chris Roberts $50 richer though, after all this time I don't even miss the money. And I've spent more on far stupider poo poo over the years.
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May 17, 2017 23:04
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Of course if your country has even slightly sane consumer protection laws you are entitled to a refund, so sending a request is always a good idea. E: This goes doubly for Star Citizen. Make reference to your country's consumer protection agency and they should fold. They're in such deep poo poo they're only really interested in keeping the whales. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 23:10 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 23:05
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Pinterest Mom posted:it's never coming out lol Ow. No discussion of the kickstarter at all. That's pretty embarrassing. (This is the official At the Gates thread now. Hi, Jon.  )
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May 18, 2017 00:44
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Kickstarter originally made a big deal about how it was NOT a preorder service, but that fell by the wayside almost immediately.
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May 18, 2017 01:40
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I could roll in kickstarter schadenfreude like a pig in poo poo. Even though I was very interested in ATG (I didn't back it), I also love just looking at the frozen-in-time hubris from the KS page: "$40,000 is not a large budget for a game with this kind of scope. But it's sufficient to finish At the Gates because we've already made significant progress, and have a very small development team. (They ended up raising over $100k) ... "Our launch target for At the Gates is the first half of 2014.That date is obviously pretty far off, but we believe in setting realistic deadlines and being honest with you all about what to expect. A game like this can't be built in six months. Well, not a good one, anyways! ... "And, should this Kickstarter be a success, once development on At the Gates ultimately winds down we’ll begin work on other fresh, deep and ambitious titles. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves now!" 
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May 18, 2017 01:43
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theres no way in hell i'll give anyone money for a shafer game until at the gates is done, which is to say i will never give anyone money for a shafer game
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May 18, 2017 06:18
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also civ 5 had some good ideas but it was balanced like poo poo and only got 'good' by adding a bunch more half-baked systems so i'm waiting to see an actual good game
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May 18, 2017 07:33
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corn in the bible posted:theres no way in hell i'll give anyone money for a shafer game until at the gates is done, which is to say i will never give anyone money for a shafer game Yeah I hate to say it, but any review of a Paradox game Shafer develops should begin and end with 'by Jon Shafer, who took a load of kickstarter money for ATG and then never released anything'. Taking customer's money and then walking away should be a career ending fuckup.
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May 18, 2017 08:36
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Alchenar posted:Yeah I hate to say it, but any review of a Paradox game Shafer develops should begin and end with 'by Jon Shafer, who took a load of kickstarter money for ATG and then never released anything'. Alternatively, he's funneling money from that game into ATG's development.
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May 18, 2017 08:55
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That's kind of the point though, you're not a customer. You're an investor, and one of the key points of investing is you do so in the full knowledge you may gain nothing and lose everything.
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May 18, 2017 08:55
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StashAugustine posted:also civ 5 had some good ideas but it was balanced like poo poo and only got 'good' by adding a bunch more half-baked systems so i'm waiting to see an actual good game I have more hours in Civ V than any other game in my library, and I can't really put into words why. Like, there are so many bad design decisions and combat was complete rear end until Gods and Kings, but somehow the whole picture was fun enough that I keep going back to it. CKII is rapidly catching up to it, but that's because very few games let me ram a boat into Cthulhu and eat my brother.
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May 18, 2017 09:00
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At least Magna Mundi and East vs West weren't kickstarters.
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May 18, 2017 09:00
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Don Gato posted:I have more hours in Civ V than any other game in my library, and I can't really put into words why. Like, there are so many bad design decisions and combat was complete rear end until Gods and Kings, but somehow the whole picture was fun enough that I keep going back to it. Do you not own a copy of EU4? I would have played more Civ5 (and more multiplayer) if achievements worked better.
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May 18, 2017 10:33
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Westminster System posted:That's kind of the point though, you're not a customer. Yeah, nah. You're not getting a share of the company. You're long-term pre-ordering a game you want made.
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May 18, 2017 12:15
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Yeah, nah. You're not getting a share of the company. You're long-term pre-ordering a game you want made. Investment doesn't always necessarily give shares, it is just the common practice within business as a way of having collateral. Kickstarter is investment without collateral. A project on Kickstarter doesn't necessarily have to promise you a free copy, it just have become common practice to offer that.
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May 18, 2017 12:26
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And if they promise a t-shirt rather than a copy of the game and fail to give you a t-shirt you can still ask for a refund. You're purchasing whatever product the reward tier offers you. It's not an investment.
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May 18, 2017 12:29
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StashAugustine posted:also civ 5 had some good ideas but it was balanced like poo poo and only got 'good' by adding a bunch more half-baked systems so i'm waiting to see an actual good game Sounds like his design will fit right in with Paradox.
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May 18, 2017 13:05
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I'm entirely okay with 'Kickstarting something means taking the risk that nothing will come out of it'. My point is that the other edge of that sword is that if you have taken a bunch of money in the past and failed to deliver anything for it, you can't complain when people hold that against you in the future. In this case Paradox should really have considered that having Shafer's name attached to a project is not a PR plus right now.
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May 18, 2017 13:39
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Moral of the story: never invest in kickstarters that rely on dropping the name of a developer like it means anything
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May 18, 2017 14:00
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Agean90 posted:Moral of the story: never invest in kickstarters that rely on dropping the name of a developer like it means anything Too late I'm giving money to Phoenix Point. /sends money into the void in the hope that Gollop will do something neat with it e: Basically yeah it's a nice moral but if you say the right name and post screencaps people can be real dumb with their money. At least Gollop's done one of these ks things before. StrixNebulosa fucked around with this message at 14:04 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 14:02
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Not a good look hiring a guy that has 100k of kickstarter money and pulls a disappearing act. However, don't write kick starter checks you don't mind never seeing a return on investment for either.
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May 18, 2017 14:42
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if you waste money on kickstarters you deserve anything you get
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May 18, 2017 15:00
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StrixNebulosa posted:Too late I'm giving money to Phoenix Point. I've ks/backed Battletech and Phoenix Point. Both of those were on the basis that the people asking for money had a track record of delivering finished products. Phoenix Point is a bit more of a punt than Battletech given I think there's a risk that they could deliver everything promised and it just won't come together into something that's fun or unique, but I figure anyone who has ever played any XCOM style game can throw $20 Gollop's way by way of thanks.
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May 18, 2017 15:26
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Agean90 posted:Moral of the story: never invest in kickstarters
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May 18, 2017 16:49
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What about that potato salad kickstarter?
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May 18, 2017 17:04
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Westminster System posted:That's kind of the point though, you're not a customer. You're a loving idiot but even if we accept this dumb premise you can't take people's investment money and then just disappear and expect them to give you money ever again
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May 18, 2017 17:55
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ITT people pretend that investments don't give you the right to any expectations ever
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May 18, 2017 17:56
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Tahirovic posted:Do you not own a copy of EU4? I do, but I "only" have 300 hours in it. Been smashing my head against the wall recently to get the sunset invasion achievement; as frustrating as it gets at least it isn't as much of a pain as it used to be to westernize. It did apparently bug out on my because I got none of the horrible events you are supposed to get, so I lept forward a few hundred years in tech with no downsides overnight
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May 18, 2017 18:12
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I have EU4 but can't really get the hang of it, is there a good tutorial series somewhere?
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May 18, 2017 22:15
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If you enjoy videos a Streamer by the name of Arumba has this series : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1DesDCb2WU
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May 18, 2017 23:02
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As someone who could never get into EU4, I'd really recommend MEIOU & Taxes rather than vanilla to learn the game at this point. The automation of a bunch of mechanics to add simulationism really ends up cutting down on the game knowledge required to play at this point.
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May 18, 2017 23:10
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:As someone who could never get into EU4, I'd really recommend MEIOU & Taxes rather than vanilla to learn the game at this point. The automation of a bunch of mechanics to add simulationism really ends up cutting down on the game knowledge required to play at this point. Can you link to the mods? I keep trying to get into EUIV but never can to the degree I do with CK and Stellaris.
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May 18, 2017 23:18
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Can you link to the mods? I keep trying to get into EUIV but never can to the degree I do with CK and Stellaris. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...s-here.1022034/
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May 19, 2017 00:37
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Dear god do not play MEIOU & Taxes as an intro to the game, it adds a ton of things too. Yeah the base game is bloated with features but just looking at the MEIOU & Taxes map makes me lose my lunch. The EU4 thread is really chill and people there are always happy to help answer questions, so maybe check that out too. I think the OP is a little out of date but the thread is active enough that people will help you out if you ask. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3725024
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May 19, 2017 00:59
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Oh I've read the thread and everyone is cool in it. I guess the problem is finding a tutorial that isn't bloated like some of the Arumba ones (though informative) that is up to date with the current dlc. I just want for lack of a better term a really good instruction manual tutorial. Part of it is explaining functions and things like say in CKII to always check your potential War targets prestige or piety to protect against possible spawnable troops.
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May 19, 2017 01:15
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The best tutorial is to just play the game until you figure things out.
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May 19, 2017 08:55
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