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Doctor Shitfaced posted:Capcom was the company that screwed over GRIN, if I recall correctly. Although I do recall GRIN working with SE on a Final Fantasy game for awhile as well. It's literally in the Kotaku link not five posts up
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May 18, 2017 17:46
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I'm a bitch idiot retard, my bad.
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May 18, 2017 18:05
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Update dropped, henchmen system finalized (for now).
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May 18, 2017 19:47
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The below changes were made with a fix for a longstanding issue with damage grace periods in mind. With that said, it's still hard to defend a bunch of them-The grace period bug had a pretty specific set of contexts in which it occurred. Many of the changes that are understandable in direction (like an increased cooldown for Sicario's smoke grenade) are hard to justify in terms of extent. Changelog: Perk Decks Gambler Medical Supplies - Ammo pack pickups will now heal for 16 to 24 health (an increase from the 8 to 12), The bonus you receive for having teammates with more health than you is 20% (reduced from 100%) stacks up to three times. Sharing Is Caring - When you gain health from ammo packs your teammates will receive 50% of the effect (reduced from 100%). More Healing 1 - The health gained from ammo packs gives an additional 8 health (increased from 4). More Healing 2 - The health gained from ammo packs gives an additional 8 health (increased from 4). Rouge, Crook and Burglar Subtle - You dodge chance is increased by 15% (increase from 10%). Sicario Smoker - The smoke screen will last for 10 seconds (increased from 6 seconds) and the smoke bomb will have a 60 second cooldown (increased from 30 seconds). Subtle - You dodge chance is increased by 15% (increased from 10%). Crew Chief Marathon Man - In addition to the normal effect you also take 6% less damage from all enemies if you are within medium range of any enemy. Hostage Situation - Each hostage you have will give you and your crew 6% max health (increased from 2%) and 12% stamina (increased from 4%) this can stack for 4 hostages (reduced from 10). Sociopath No Talk - You take 6% (reduced from 8%) less damage from all enemies if you are within medium range of any enemy. Tension - The armor regeneration from killing an enemy can trigger once every 1 second (decreased from once every 2 second). Clean Hit - The health regeneration from killing an enemy with a melee weapon can trigger once every 1 second (decreased from once every 2 seconds). Overdose - The armor regeneration from killing an enemy at medium range can trigger once every 1 second (decreased from once every 2 seconds). Showdown - The panic spread chance from killing an enemy at medium range can trigger once every 1 second (decreased from once every 2 seconds) . Infiltrator Basic, Advanced and Expert Close Combat - You take 6% (reduced from 8%) less damage from all enemies if you are within medium range of any enemy. Skills Mastermind Quick Fix - Aced - Crew members that use your First Aid Kits or Doctor Bags will take 10% less damage (reduced from 15%) for 120 seconds. Joker - Aced - Your converted enemies will deal 35% (reduced from 100%) more damage. Your converted enemies will no longer take the 55% less damage. Enforcer Underdog - Aced - You take 10% (reduced from 15%) less damage from all enemies if you are within medium range of at least three enemies. The bonus lasts for 7 seconds. Other changes: General
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 19:54 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 19:50
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Those are all pretty major buffs aside from sicario which is pretty fair since the smoke grenade recharged unreasonably quickly beforehand. I mean, the effect isn't really that good, but it's a little too good to recharge almost instantly.
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May 18, 2017 21:03
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 jokers
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May 18, 2017 21:04
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Dodge builds are back baby! 
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May 18, 2017 21:08
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jokers smokers mid-night tokers
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May 18, 2017 21:21
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Space Cowboy DLC when
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May 18, 2017 21:55
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I'm still waiting for  80's guns
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May 18, 2017 22:00
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HebrewMagic posted:Space Cowboy DLC when When they play my music in the sun
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May 18, 2017 22:04
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watho posted:When they play my music in the sun 
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May 18, 2017 22:07
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Sykic posted:
Joker nerf is mostly a nonissue- while the damage lost with Joker Aced is substantial, the defense buff of 99% is in Forced Friendship, which is untouched.
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May 18, 2017 22:12
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Which means Jokers have generally gone from 512 hits to die to only 512 hits to die.
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May 18, 2017 22:14
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watho posted:Those are all pretty major buffs aside from sicario which is pretty fair since the smoke grenade recharged unreasonably quickly beforehand. I mean, the effect isn't really that good, but it's a little too good to recharge almost instantly. And the Infiltrator/Underdog nerf.
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May 18, 2017 22:48
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Discendo Vox posted:Joker nerf is mostly a nonissue- while the damage lost with Joker Aced is substantial, the defense buff of 99% is in Forced Friendship, which is untouched. Joker - Aced - Your converted enemies will deal 35% (reduced from 100%) more damage. Your converted enemies will no longer take the 55% less damage. is this not what it seems here? not trying to be a joker (HEH) for once this just didn't jive for me
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May 18, 2017 23:01
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Coolguye posted:Joker - Aced - Your converted enemies will deal 35% (reduced from 100%) more damage. Your converted enemies will no longer take the 55% less damage. The 55% less damage is part of Joker Aced, but is separate from the 45% and 54% stacking DR provided by Forced Friendship. The result is that aside from dozers and snipers, jokered enemies will still take 512 hits to go down.
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May 18, 2017 23:54
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Discendo Vox posted:Remember Wolf's description? quote:As the relationship deteriorated, the Anderssons say Square Enix sent them a strange demand: Fax us the game's code, including the project's music files. "It is as silly as it sounds," Bo Andersson said (Google translation.) "It is an impossible requirement, you can not send ASCII or binary codes on the fax. It is backward. Really retarded. It was almost a criminal activity." Holy poo poo that's amazing.
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May 19, 2017 02:10
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watho posted:Those are all pretty major buffs aside from sicario which is pretty fair since the smoke grenade recharged unreasonably quickly beforehand. I mean, the effect isn't really that good, but it's a little too good to recharge almost instantly. The smoke grenade was the only redeeming quality of the deck.
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May 19, 2017 03:18
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So I quit around the safe becoming huge. The news got me back in and I dropped about $11 on the rest of the dlc I didn't have outside of one 50 cent soundtrack dlc as I can't be bothered to pull out the other music I already bought. So it seems you can get stat boosts to attach to guns now outside the skins from safes, but I can't seem to find how you get them? Are they just card drops? Can I use continental coins for them? Also holy poo poo I feel like my skills are a hot mess. Trying to look up builds seems like the Wild West now. Gone are the simple days of master-forcer and such stand by's I guess? I have read that transporter is still a good one skill point wonder, and nine lives is a easy one to always pick up as well. The heists seem to have all gotten much longer and more intense since Big Bank too. Stuff like Golden Grin, Big Bank and Alesso dwarf the old standard Harvard trust, diamond store and jewelry shop. Sure they were silly heists, but I still had fun with them. Lastly, the Pub Stove, holy poo poo I joined a group on Mayhem for Firestarter figuring that I'll get a old but fun heist done for some good levels. Day 1 I am told they want to stealth the entire heist. I advised against that since it is such bullshit to do, and since the host didn't relent, I just noped the gently caress out of that dumpster fire. Pubbies... pubbies never change.
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May 19, 2017 03:29
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Hey is this a discord channel are people still using Mumble? I haven't played Payday in probably 2 years or so. So I have no clue how to avoid pubbie games currently.
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May 19, 2017 03:47
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Hey is this a discord channel are people still using Mumble? I haven't played Payday in probably 2 years or so. So I have no clue how to avoid pubbie games currently.
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May 19, 2017 04:52
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The mumble is alive and well. Not sure why people are so adverse to it; it still has some regulars. In light of the sicario changes, I did some test driving. I'm not exactly sure what to think. While 5 more dodge doesn't seem a lot, it has pushed it up to cusp of reliability. Resorting to sprinting is still your bailout, as is appropriate for a dodge deck, but you won't get gibbed instantly by something you didn't see. You'll have time to react, at least, and you can stop long enough to aim in. I'm not sure there is a clear winner between LBV and Suit at this point. I will note I was playing with hostage taker aced for 4.5% health regen constantly, which I now consider non negotiable for the deck. Jokers can fix any rotten build, but I feel Sicario deserves a shot despite it for two reasons. The first revolves around it's synergy with health regen; it's sudden armor gain on dodging puts a stopper on rapid health bleedout. The second revolves around the smoke grenade. 60 seconds feels like a drastic nerf, but even some brief playing with having 10 full seconds of coverage in smoke was eye opening. It feels like an incredibly long time when you're actually playing it in game. There's far more interactions you can complete without the grenade running out. I'll need to do a lot of testing on DW before I am satisfied in giving a real verdict, but I am filled with hopeful skepticism. Also, Crew Chief made out like a bandit. If this isn't your new favorite deck, then get out of town.
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May 19, 2017 06:51
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The +5 dodge is a nice touch, and something I didn't expect them to do. Crew Chief buff is long overdue. Jokers will remain strong though now will act more as bullet sponges than damage dealers. Finally, a rebalance that they aren't horribly loving up.
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May 19, 2017 12:38
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Ok so playing a buncha Death Wish tonight with the changes; I spent the last balance cycle saying Crew Chief and Gambler were (contrary to conventional wisdom) really good and things every team should bring to Mayhem/Death Wish. Now they're both even better. If you aren't bringing a Crew Chief and a Gambler, you're leaving a lot on the table in terms of group composition. Maniac is a likely third choice for a teammate that does the team more good than a bot necessarily, and while Maniac didn't get buffed per se, as a deck that doesn't have health regen built in it got an indirect buff from bots getting teamwide health regen as an option and Gamblers getting buffed to become more common. Armorer is the only other perk deck that has a teamwide passive benefit and it's a lovely 10% faster armor recovery. Gambler's teamwide health and ammo restore makes it one of the few team members unarguably better than having a bot instead. Crew Chief is similarly "doing more for the group than a bot would." Sociopath remains pretty mediocre, although it is better than it was. Yakuza and Hitman, which were the weakest decks overall, got no love whatsoever and with most other decks getting buffed, look worse than ever before. Hitman still has some fun gimmick usage if you really love Akimbo guns. Crook (LBV or HBV, either way) really did not need any buffing and giving it additional dodge is just silly. If you've never tried a dodge build before, get in on the Crook action while it's still Payday2 Easy Mode. Crook's biggest weakness is having to health tank while having no built-in method of health regen. Bots can now grant teamwide health regen and Gamblers that can do so got buffed and are more common too, two indirect Crook buffs that Crook didn't need, on top of the direct buff of additional dodge. Rogue got the same dodge increase treatment and same indirect buff via more ways to get sorely-needed health regen handily while arguably needing it, unlike Crook. Sicario went from amazing to mediocre back to good and fun. The smoke grenade lasts longer but has a longer cool down and much like Rogue gains some needed buffs from extra dodge and more widely available teamwide health regen from bots or newly-buffed Gamblers. For the old friends returning to the payday2 fold thanks to the DLC sale and new content wondering how to build now, I heartily recommend the Modularized Build Advice section of my Steam Guide. It has presets for common build bits you can put together like tinker toys to wind up with a reasonable build without having to sift through The Long Guide or watch some sperg's longass youtube video. Quick and dirty advice: Every perk deck is viable at least through Death Wish nowadays, although Yakuza and Hitman are notably weaker than the others, and of course received no substantive buffing in the most recent balance pass. Burglar is mostly for Stealth. Otherwise pick a perk deck you think sounds cool, slap together modular build bits for appropriate armor/dodge/weaponry and have a blast. What weapons are good now? Shotguns are split into two basic categories of "good pickup" (Steakout, Izhma, Goliath, 1014, SPAS, Street Sweeper) and "bad pickup" (the rest.) I strongly recommend taking a Steakout (if you don't care about conceal for dodge/crits) or Izhma (if you do need dodge/crits) with 000 buckshot, Aced Close By and Basic Overkill if you want to have a Good Time with shotguns. The Goliath is basically a semi-auto secondary-slot Steakout. If you go with a Steakout or Izhma, be aware they are full auto and ammo can still be problematic if you are not also bringing Aced Fully Loaded. Modding or using V to switch them to single shot is recommended for non-Fully Loaded users. Assault Rifles have the option of using DMR kit/modded single shot to become sniper rifles-that-don't-penetrate or being built for use as automatic rifles. CAR-4/AK (plain jane AK, the AK-74 for the TFR crowd) stat out nearly identically and both make exceptionally good DMRs or auto rifles, while having good pickup and the ability to hit arbitrary concealment. The JP36 with a decent suite of skills (including silencer skills) has absurdly good pickup and with the right setup is a full auto laser rifle with infinite ammo. Most other AR's are limited by their ammo pickup, but many can certainly make perfectly serviceable if sub-optimal weapons. The Little Friend can be an interesting option here as it is effectively a DMR and a grenade launcher in a single slot. The ammo pickup for the grenade launcher is fairly standard for a grenade launcher, although the DMR part has outright bad ammo pickup. Still, if you want a DMR for countersniping and a grenade launcher for loving shields and dozer-faceplates, the Little Friend does both in a single slot. The Little Friend is a particularly great pairing for an SMG or shotgun, as it addresses snipers and shields in a single slot, much like an Arbiter. This leaves the secondary slot open for a SMG or shotgun with good pickup, like an UZI or Goliath. SMGs come in low damage high pickup and high damage low pickup varieties. UZI and Micro-UZI are standouts among the former class, Tatonka the standout in the latter. A lot of SMGs are just plain bad at present, like the Patchett, but there are some decent ones. Personally I find that in the vast majority of cases, the UZI is the right choice, as it can hit arbitary concealment with acceptable damage/accuracy/stability and excellent pickup. Grenade Launchers are all good and make a great compliment to any weapon that otherwise can't handle shields. The Arbiter is viable for counter-sniper duty as well, making it a very good secondary to bring with a low accuracy automatic weapon or a 000-equipped shotgun. The Piglet is probably the "worst" grenade launcher mostly due to its extremely long reload, but it's also a loving 6-shot 40mm launcher so it's not like it doesn't have a definite niche. Rocket Launchers don't pickup ammo and thus are kinda bad at present. They do still utterly vaporize dozers, but there are better options for dealing with dozers that don't involve devoting the entire secondary slot to addressing a single special + maybe Captain Winters. Sniper Rifles have bad pickup, long reloads and low rate of fire. The Contractor .308 is serviceable but as a class, snipers are in a somewhat bad place right now. LMGs pair best with Aced Body Expertise and Aced Surefire. 44.4 is the magic damage breakpoint for LMGs and it is important to attain it through silencer skills, frenzerking or damage mods for the LMG to have sufficient ammo-efficiency as an LMG user. Pickup can be limiting with LMGs. The KSP and Brenner are notable standouts in this class. The minigun sadly cannot hit the 44.4 breakpoint through means other than frenzerking, and has so high a rate of fire and so low pickup that it has very serious ammo consumption problems, even with Aced Fully Loaded. This mostly limits the minigun to a fun occasional gimmick. Bows and Crossbows are still mostly gimmicks, although the heavy crossbow hits like a freight train and there are still people that swear by it for One Down as a result. Akimbos wind up mostly gimmicks as neither SMGs or Hanguns are particularly powerful weapon classes to start with, so doubling up on either doesn't offer a whole lot. They are, however, fun as all hell and pair well with either Hitman (its one use!) or as a Gambler with Aced Fully Loaded to improve their pickup into usable range. Builds that care about concealment for dodge/crits can also find use for akimbo Chimanos (all three flavors - 88, Compact and Custom.) Handguns are hampered by weak ammo pickup and with highly concealable AR's and SMG's around handguns can't even fully dominate the dodge/crit niche. Plenty of them are certainly passable, and the 5/7 fills a definite niche with its ability to shoot through shields while being accurate enough for counter-sniping duty, but takes the "pistols have bad pickup" stereotype to extremes; a 5/7 user really must use it exclusively for shields, snipers and maybe dozers if they want to avoid lugging around an empty gun. The Flamethrower's a fun gimmick with some limited use for specific challenges/cheevos. chairface fucked around with this message at 14:28 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 14:15
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Thank you for the  . It actually answers a poo poo ton of questions I've had about the game and was kind of confused about since I stopped playing before.
Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 23:12 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 14:25
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chairface posted:The Flamethrower's a fun gimmick with some limited use for specific challenges/cheevos. If you want to have fun lighting ten million cops on fire without dealing with real bad reload speed and ammo pickup I'd recommend taking one of the mentioned shotguns and sticking dragon breath rounds in there. A Goliath with Close By Aced is a frightening fire breathing monster that'll always have more flames to spew. Pair with the Steakout or Izhma and you've got a good time on your hands.
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May 19, 2017 14:30
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Hitman akimbo SMG build is actually really good and fun. Akimbo Krinkovs are incredibly powerful, having literally no weaknesses except poor ammo efficiency (remedied with double fully upgraded ammo bags), while akimbo MP5s are excellent bullet hoses and considerably more ammo efficient. Bringing 3 Krinkovs with aced BE, Specialized Killing and Surefire ensures you can rapidly murder absolutely anything on DW and below. Survivability is also better than I expected because of armour regenerating in 1.5 seconds no matter what, although it's true that that's still on the weak side compared to Grinder, Armourer or Muscle. The strategy is to kill anything before it kills you. Hitman akimbo pistol build, however, is - regrettably - kind of poo poo even with a convert around to buff your health and movement speed. On another note, the henchman system is the best solution to pubbies. There are only a few reasons to host public games now: for money and continental coins (both of which I have plenty of), for increased experience (which I don't need) or if playing heists that need many bags to be moved.
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May 19, 2017 15:20
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Worth noting bows still work with Body Expertise while Crossbows no longer do. Do with that information as you will. I spent this night/morning trying sicario and swapping decks for comparison sake. I even touched the pub stove several times for good measure. A crit gruber with a gl40 was used as the setup for all comparisons. I could honestly use a better concealed/crit setup, but what's the fun in that? Sicario on DW. I don't really have much to add to my last post. At first I was worried the steeper damage incline would be it's downfall, but comparisons made me a bit more confident in how it stands up in DW in it's own right. Sadly my initial thought was correct; Sicario requires investment in health regeneration now. Not even a question. It's saving grace is it's ability to gain armor on a dodge, meaning sicario will only lose health in very small chunks. The lack of a meaty dodge rate means you will always be losing health, but it's regained just enough to become a fairly competent deck with the right skill investments. Suit was working well for touching the pub stove. For LBV, I would simply revolve the playstyle around sprinting more to force your LBV to regenerate any time you expect heavy fire. Suit can play more like a traditional dodge build. The more I use the new grenade, the more I feel as if it's just a side grade rather than a nerf or a buff. Ten seconds is an eternity. There's so much you can do with ten whole seconds of smoke grenade, but by that same token it's less of a general purpose tool now. It's huge cooldown sees to that. I mean, poo poo, it works. In a lot of ways it's still one of the best dodge based decks. Though less blatantly silly than it was before.
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May 19, 2017 15:41
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Playing a bit with only bots, they seem decent enough at killing poo poo - I was able to do Mallcrasher on Mayhem without too much trouble with only bots. The upgrade that allows them to shoot through shields and armour is pretty essential.
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May 19, 2017 16:04
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Grapplejack posted:Kane and Lynch is a bad game with a really cool idea / story premise behind it. Pretty much, yeah. I want an actually good Kane and Lynch game, and the Payday series is inspired by the same stuff (crime movies with criminal antihero protagonists, Michael Mann films) but took it in an entirely different direction. Oh poo poo, it'd be great if Starbreeze acquired IO Interactive and funded a new K&L project. That's the in right there, that'd be how we'd get Kane and Lynch into Payday.
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May 19, 2017 16:21
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If Starbreeze is loving publishing kickstarter and fig projects it has the money to burn to buy IO or K&L off of IO as it languishes as a dead franchise.
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May 19, 2017 22:52
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Doctor Shitfaced posted:Snipers have always been good, they just got power creep'd out of being OP. This was a couple pages back, but no not really. Bolt actions really don't have any place in the game at the moment.
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May 20, 2017 23:26
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UnknownMercenary posted:This was a couple pages back, but no not really. Bolt actions really don't have any place in the game at the moment. They fill a niche of being cool.
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May 21, 2017 01:51
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Thanatos + China Puff is my go-to combination on One Down. On DW and below they simply kill enemies at too slow a rate.
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May 21, 2017 03:10
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Wastrel_ posted:Thanatos + China Puff is my go-to combination on One Down. On DW and below they simply kill enemies at too slow a rate. And if you use that combo like anyone else I see using that combo, your main weapon is the China Puff. Shima Honnou posted:They fill a niche of being cool. If only being cool helped guns like the JP36.
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May 21, 2017 03:15
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UnknownMercenary posted:If only being cool helped guns like the JP36. If you feel like you need it I modded a mod to add a new ammo type for all bullet-based guns. Boosts damage and accuracy at the cost of total ammo, stability, pickup, spread, etc. Basically allows you to DMR anything. Combining it with an actual DMR makes for some hilariousness since the stacked ammo penalty drops it to 0 ammo. Shima Honnou fucked around with this message at 03:50 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 03:47
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UnknownMercenary posted:And if you use that combo like anyone else I see using that combo, your main weapon is the China Puff. Thanatos is mainly for specials, yes, due to being able to kill any of them except the dozer in 1 body shot. It can also break the dozer faceplate in one shot and kill him in the next. Not sure why anybody would bring the Thanatos on DW and below, though.
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May 21, 2017 04:39
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Well, there really isn't a reason to any more. Most guns out-DPS the Thanatos and you can no longer efficiently kill bulldozers with it either. I'd argue it still has a niche for killing turrets except the Arbiter exists. E: the summer between update 100 and Housewarming that you easily make a Thanatos build that 1 shot dozers was really fun though. UnknownMercenary fucked around with this message at 04:53 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 04:42
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UnknownMercenary posted:If only being cool helped guns like the JP36. JP36 doesn't need any help. With a suite of silencer and rifle skills, it hits ~80 accuracy and stability with damage over the 44.4 breakpoint.... and the pickup is phenomenal. A mediocre gun with infinite ammo isn't a poor choice at all on DW and below. One Down of course fucks it up when enemies can take a whole mag to the face without dying but the game isn't even meant to be balanced around One Down so the gun performing poorly there means basically nothing. Went from 0 to 250+ in a single go on a crime spree tonight and the crew chief/gambler combo made it look downright easy. One restart due to a glitch and no failures meant it was straight profitable on CCs doing it legit without rerolls. Got two goons their Mega Rust in one marathon of heisting.
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May 21, 2017 08:51
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