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I've got a 3 story with finished basement new construction townhouse corner unit - 1900 sq ft of total living space and was built last year. The HVAC system is new, with a 3-ton condenser. It seems to struggle to keep the house cool, consumes a lot of electricity and runs more than it should, so I'm trying to narrow down reasons why this might be. The two return trunks are run from the basement where the air handler is through two 16 inch 2x4 stud bays in the exterior wall. More on that later. One of the trunks stops in the first-floor living room where the grille is, the other goes up two stories to the third-floor hallway. (Here's a photo of the return trunks before they were drywalled - https://i.imgur.com/6fguakM.jpg) You can see how the trunk on the right terminates at the ceiling, and the left one goes into the ceiling and up to the third floor. When they installed the return grille for the first floor (pictured here - https://i.imgur.com/aobG3Ho.jpg) they for whatever reason cut the drywall about 6 inches into the third floor return trunk on the left. I'm wondering if this is a design flaw, I can't understand why you would want to partially open up the third-floor trunk on the first floor, seems like it would just rob pressure potential from the third floor return and make the system less efficient. Another thing I realized is that the return trunks are running up the entire side of the house, and since they take up two entire stud bays, there is no insulation. The exterior wall is clad in metal siding, and it is a southern facing wall, so I'm assuming these trunks are taking on a decent amount of heat from the siding and bringing it into the system, reducing efficiency. Lastly I noticed they ran Romex through the return trunks, can see that in the first link. Is that kosher? EDIT: I am a moron, these are returns and not supply. Corrected post. BusinessWallet fucked around with this message at 20:49 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 17:25
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Has anyone ever bought a new front door? I'm just starting the research now, but I cannot put up with the giant window in our current one. The house faces west in a very hot area so great insulation is a primary consideration, along with scratch-resistant because our dog is poorly trained and goes batshit on it when the bell rings. While Googling I can't tell what's honestly researched articles versus sponsored content on the internet these days. I am assuming Fiberglass is the way to go. Price isn't a big issue but I'd rather not get taken advantage of, of course. Any tips?
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May 19, 2017 17:25
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Do you care about security, or is insulation your only concern?
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May 19, 2017 17:37
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drat Bananas posted:Has anyone ever bought a new front door? I'm just starting the research now, but I cannot put up with the giant window in our current one. The house faces west in a very hot area so great insulation is a primary consideration, along with scratch-resistant because our dog is poorly trained and goes batshit on it when the bell rings. While Googling I can't tell what's honestly researched articles versus sponsored content on the internet these days. I am assuming Fiberglass is the way to go. Price isn't a big issue but I'd rather not get taken advantage of, of course. Any tips? As for dog resistance I don't know, but don't overthink it. We went to a local supply store (doors, windows, trim, that sort of thing) recommended by a local trusted builder and just chatted with them about what we wanted. Look for yard signs of GC's who seem to do good work, then check their website. They will probably have a list of people they use. We will never have a dog and went with a fiberglass door. They suggested someone to install it and for $750? all in we got a pre-hung half-lit w/ internal blinds fiberglass door installed, including removal of the old one and some very minor framing work. Los Angeles County prices. Nothing is going to 100% resist a dog scratching at it like a crazed maniac, especially if you let their nails get long. Train your dog?  Full sized dogs like labs and shepherds can break a (non-reinforced) door out of its frame given time and motivation.
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May 19, 2017 17:40
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Leperflesh posted:Do you care about security, or is insulation your only concern? I mean, if someone wants in they're gonna get in even if I have an adamantium door. I have perfectly brickable front windows, and full-pane glass french doors to the back patio. So insulation is my main day-to-day concern. H110Hawk posted:As for dog resistance I don't know, but don't overthink it. We went to a local supply store (doors, windows, trim, that sort of thing) recommended by a local trusted builder and just chatted with them about what we wanted. Look for yard signs of GC's who seem to do good work, then check their website. They will probably have a list of people they use. We will never have a dog and went with a fiberglass door. They suggested someone to install it and for $750? all in we got a pre-hung half-lit w/ internal blinds fiberglass door installed, including removal of the old one and some very minor framing work. Los Angeles County prices. He's a beagle, haha. I'm hoping if we get a solid door he won't be clamoring up it to see out the door's window anymore, instead he'll run to the other room to look through the dog-height windows. He doesn't scratch there.
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May 19, 2017 18:33
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BusinessWallet posted:I've got a 3 story with finished basement new construction townhouse corner unit - 1900 sq ft of total living space and was built last year. The HVAC system is new, with a 3-ton condenser. It seems to struggle to keep the house cool, consumes a lot of electricity and runs more than it should, so I'm trying to narrow down reasons why this might be. I'm not an HVAC person, but it seems like two 15x4 inch bays is not enough input air for a 3 ton unit. I have a 4 ton unit in my house, and it has two 20x20 air filters that it sucks air through. An HVAC company could rectify this by adding a large supply vent near the unit (sounds like it is in your attic/third floor?) to provide more air. Obviously a unit can also struggle if you have dirty filters, or filters that are too high a MIRV rating - don't use the crazy MIRV 10+ filters, just buy a decent quality MIRV7/8 filter and change it often enough. I also had the exact symptoms you describe when my unit was low on refrigerant - it ran for way too long and couldn't keep up. You can kind of check this yourself in a couple ways - measure the temperature drop between the supply air and the output air at a vent near the unit, it should be 20 degrees or more. Or go out to the condenser and feel the refrigerant pipe as it goes into the unit - it should be ice cold. If there is a low level of refrigerant it will feel warm.
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May 19, 2017 18:35
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Droo posted:I also had the exact symptoms you describe when my unit was low on refrigerant - it ran for way too long and couldn't keep up. You can kind of check this yourself in a couple ways - measure the temperature drop between the supply air and the output air at a vent near the unit, it should be 20 degrees or more. This assumes a properly installed system first, so it's going to be meaningless for the OP. They need to start with an airflow test to make sure enough air is making it to each register and to the returns. This is going to require a professional. This professional should be saying things like "Manual J" when you speak to them. Also, one should always start with insulation and air sealing when it comes to performance problems with heat/cool. It could be really that simple (or not simple if insulation was missed or improperly installed in places).
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May 19, 2017 19:26
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Pryor on Fire posted:I feel really sad for all the people going to Sears and buying Kenmores. Just loving stop. We got a Kitchen Aid when we redid our kitchen and I love it. I have a friend who is a chef that has the same one and he conplains that it doesn't get cold enough. I asked him how cold it should get for him to be happy and he said 30 F. Why you would want your food frozen is being me but maybe he browsers with the door open a lot?
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May 19, 2017 19:43
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Motronic posted:This assumes a properly installed system first, so it's going to be meaningless for the OP. Would the rest of the paragraph I typed that you cut off would be a valid way for a layman to check this on a new system? quote:Or go out to the condenser and feel the refrigerant pipe as it goes into the unit - it should be ice cold. If there is a low level of refrigerant it will feel warm.
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May 19, 2017 19:53
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Motronic posted:This assumes a properly installed system first, so it's going to be meaningless for the OP. Could it just be that the return is just too small for the unit and it is starving for air? The house is well insulated as far as I can tell. This is only an issue in the summer time, the house stayed very warm pretty effortlessly during the winter, even when it was extremely cold outside.
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May 19, 2017 20:45
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Droo posted:Would the rest of the paragraph I typed that you cut off would be a valid way for a layman to check this on a new system? The point of what I posted was "no". If it's improperly installed (i.e., insufficient airflow across the condenser) it will cause all manner of symptoms that could look/feel like a refrigerant quantity issue to someone who doesn't have gauges and thermometers with the knowledge to use them. BusinessWallet posted:Could it just be that the return is just too small for the unit and it is starving for air? Yes. It could be this, it could be that, it could be another thing. There are tools operated by people with the proper knowledge that will determine this. Due to both complexity and tool expense this isn't a home gamer diagnosis. Motronic fucked around with this message at 20:48 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 20:45
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So far I've talked to 4 different HVAC contractors about this topic. One quoted me to replace the entire system with a "proper" install. One told me to double the size of my return grills. One told me it was operating completely within spec. One told me he wouldn't touch it at all. None of them took any kinds of measurements.
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May 19, 2017 20:52
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BusinessWallet posted:So far I've talked to 4 different HVAC contractors about this topic. One quoted me to replace the entire system with a "proper" install. One told me to double the size of my return grills. One told me it was operating completely within spec. One told me he wouldn't touch it at all. None of them took any kinds of measurements. So you found 4 of the wrong companies. I don't know where you are, and even if i did I wouldn't be able to help unless it was near where I live. But proper sales and service companies are out there. The very often do mostly commercial work where making these types of measurements is an everyday thing for rebalncing systems in large buildings based on change of uses of space within the building.
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May 19, 2017 20:57
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I live in Philly which is currently experiencing a construction boom, so all anyone wants to do is install new systems in new/renovated houses. No one is interested in smaller jobs right now, I've been told this directly.
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May 19, 2017 21:01
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Motronic posted:The point of what I posted was "no". If the refrigerant pipe near the condenser is warm when the unit is running, what could cause that besides a low level of refrigerant?
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May 19, 2017 21:09
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drat Bananas posted:Has anyone ever bought a new front door? I'm just starting the research now, but I cannot put up with the giant window in our current one. The house faces west in a very hot area so great insulation is a primary consideration, along with scratch-resistant because our dog is poorly trained and goes batshit on it when the bell rings. While Googling I can't tell what's honestly researched articles versus sponsored content on the internet these days. I am assuming Fiberglass is the way to go. Price isn't a big issue but I'd rather not get taken advantage of, of course. Any tips? Did you try window film on the window first? It's fairly cheap (way cheaper then a new front door) and does wonders for preventing heat transfer. This is the stuff I used: https://www.amazon.com/Gila-LES481-Control-Residential-Platinum/dp/B000KKNZG6 .. which worked wonderfully for preventing a ton of heat from coming in through a glass door.
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May 19, 2017 21:10
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Droo posted:If the refrigerant pipe near the condenser is warm when the unit is running, what could cause that besides a low level of refrigerant? I'll assume you're talking about the suction line here. It can be low refrigerant charge, faulty TXV/piston, bad or badly installed reversing valve, it could be a bad compressor, it could be excessive refrigerant charge causing slugging that is damaging the compressor.................... Basically half of the components of the system could cause this, and the way it is diagnosed it with actual HVAC specific tools, not joe homeowner grabbing lines and searching on the internet. If anyone is interested enough in this to learn and purchase appropriate tools and testing equipment you can get started with my thread in AI, because working on known volume pre-engineered automative AC systems is like baby's first AC work. It just gets more complicated for fixed AC as you can't always know exact ineset length to derive an exact charge weight.
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May 19, 2017 22:28
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At what point does one decide to replace their HVAC system rather than keep repairing it? We have a Trane 1100 from 94 (23 years for those counting) that since we have purchased the home has ended up costing us a couple hundred and the associated annoyance of the system not working every 2-3 years. Well this season the compressor fan has died on us and we are being quoted $500 to replace it. The tech also found that the blower on the furnace was wobbling due to a loose bolt that he tightened up, but said it is stripping out and will probably cause a failure at some point in the future (not suggesting to do anything on that at this point). I went ahead and had him start a quote for a new system if for no other reason than to get an idea of what to expect and told him I'll let him know what way we decide to go on it. Do folks proactively replace at all? Wait for a major failure that is a couple thousand? What's the right mindset?
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May 20, 2017 00:19
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Fancy_Lad posted:At what point does one decide to replace their HVAC system rather than keep repairing it? I would replace that unit because I would expect it to start having $500+ problems pretty much every year once the unit is more than 15 years old. The annualized installation cost of a new system expected to last another 15 years is probably only $200-$300, plus the new unit should run more efficiently and save you some money there.
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May 20, 2017 00:42
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You need to find a good contractor who will make an effort, because there are too many variables for a good internet diagnosis. Someone has to look at this whole thing and account for heat load and go from there. Maybe someone in Philly has a good guy to refer. A tech should be able to look at superheat and subcooling numbers and go a long way toward judging if the system on it's own is working correctly. From there you can look at if it has an air balance issue or if it's undersized for the heat load, or if the problem isn't the unit at all and you have insulation or construction problems. It doesn't necessarily mean the guy has to measure dimensions or throw a manometer on all your ducts (experienced guys can be pretty good just with looking around), but it might take that too and you should ask about it if they can't explain what they think is going on clearly. Just my guess is your unit might be slightly undersized for your heat load if your insulation and envelope aren't great. It's probably not low refrigerant or air flow or you'd freeze up the evap coil. It's vaguely possible the air flow is on the low side and they overcharged your unit to prevent freezing, but that's a stretch. If it was a problem with air balance and return location you'd find warm and cool spots, but it sounds like you're warm everywhere. Return ducts being heated can be checked by looking at your return air temperature at the unit vs at the register; it could be a problem or maybe not.
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May 20, 2017 05:38
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Fancy_Lad posted:At what point does one decide to replace their HVAC system rather than keep repairing it? I'm going to put some flexseal on my rusted-out swamp cooler to see if i can get another year out of it
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May 20, 2017 05:42
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devicenull posted:Did you try window film on the window first? It's fairly cheap (way cheaper then a new front door) and does wonders for preventing heat transfer. This is the stuff I used: https://www.amazon.com/Gila-LES481-Control-Residential-Platinum/dp/B000KKNZG6 .. which worked wonderfully for preventing a ton of heat from coming in through a glass door. Window film + his dog problem is a recipe for trouble. You can do exterior window film (you linked to interior film) but I've heard it is usually nothing but trouble - cracks/peels more frequently, etc. Maybe there are exceptions but that still wouldn't stop the dog scratching problems on the inside in general. The real solution here is to stop allowing the dog to do whatever the hell it wants but as that isn't as quick a fix as a new door....
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May 20, 2017 05:49
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Fancy_Lad posted:At what point does one decide to replace their HVAC system rather than keep repairing it? 23 years well into bonus time for the average installation; some will go longer but many have already been replaced. Assuming your system is R22, basically any major leak or coil or compressor failure is going to be a replacement given just the cost of the refrigerant. Some control stuff could also be problematic to get. Personally, I'd say the ROI at this point is pretty reasonable and it will be a lot nicer to plan this job vs doing it when the unit decides for you. Maybe with some luck you could get 5 or 10 more years out of what you have with just some minor repairs, but that's very much a gamble with a 23 year old unit that's already showing some signs of wear and tear.
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May 20, 2017 05:57
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devicenull posted:Did you try window film on the window first? It's fairly cheap (way cheaper then a new front door) and does wonders for preventing heat transfer. This is the stuff I used: https://www.amazon.com/Gila-LES481-Control-Residential-Platinum/dp/B000KKNZG6 .. which worked wonderfully for preventing a ton of heat from coming in through a glass door. Sorry, I didn't word it very clear - I want one without a window mainly for other reasons. 1: Privacy; because anyone on our porch can see directly to our living room couches. And if the doorbell rings I want a peephole so I can pretend I'm not home and they won't see me standing right there. 2) For about 2 hours per evening the sun shines through it directly into the faces of anyone on the couch watching TV to the point that we avoid the living room in the evenings because of it. The film might help with that, but I would like a solid door anyway.
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May 21, 2017 04:16
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We need to buy a new refrigerator for our house and the process is relatively daunting. There is a ton of conflicting information on which brands are good and which ones are not. Which features are needed and which are dumb and superfluous and of course the people who are like "just get a sub-zero". Anyone have advice on what brands to look for/avoid for a fridge? All I know is it needs to be counter depth and I want a water dispenser too.
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May 21, 2017 15:45
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Sab0921 posted:We need to buy a new refrigerator for our house and the process is relatively daunting. There is a ton of conflicting information on which brands are good and which ones are not. Which features are needed and which are dumb and superfluous and of course the people who are like "just get a sub-zero". I've generally been happy with Consumer Reports for these kinds of issues. They'll give a nice breakdown on all the relevant features, give their opinion about how effectively the fridge uses its space (e.g. they'll note if a particular area is hard to reach or if containers are awkwardly-sized), and of course measure its energy use and ability to maintain temperature. A subscription to their site for a year costs peanuts in comparison to the cost of a fridge.
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May 21, 2017 15:49
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You absolutely need a fridge that has wifi or the knock to preview option.
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May 21, 2017 17:08
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The Dave posted:You absolutely need a fridge that has wifi or the knock to preview option. Figured as much - what about the camera inside so I can access it through an app and know at all times what is in my fridge?
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May 21, 2017 17:14
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Sab0921 posted:Figured as much - what about the camera inside so I can access it through an app and know at all times what is in my fridge? Fridge safety is not something to joke about. A camera in my fridge would have saved me from so many pickle scares. When I'm planning to make burgers, I need to know that my kosher dills are safe.
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May 21, 2017 18:40
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Pickle surprise!
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May 21, 2017 18:46
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I was at an appliance store and i joked about getting a model with a television in it but the salesman did not laugh. Then he told me how much he hated those things and what a disgrace they are to the appliance biz.
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May 21, 2017 19:12
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Don't get a Sub-Zero unless you have enough money to be able to say "just get a Sub-Zero." A Sub-Zero is like a BMW. You pay more for the badge, it's fantastic when it works, and it's astonishingly expensive to fix when it goes wrong (which will happen months after the warranty expires). The good news is most refrigerators right now are perfectly fine. Consumer Reports is great for telling you what models to avoid based on repair history. I repeat myself when I suggest going to a Sears Outlet, but my most recent refrigerator purchase listed at $1700 and I got it for $800 there. Plus you get to look at the exact appliance you're buying, without having to guess about how high a shelf will "feel' to you or whatever.
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May 21, 2017 19:13
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I can't speak to the reliability, since my sample size is three, but strictly on useability and satisfaction with the device itself, Samsung makes really nice side-by-sides. I have one now, and it's awesome.
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May 21, 2017 19:15
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Tricky Ed posted:The good news is most refrigerators right now are perfectly fine. Consumer Reports is great for telling you what models to avoid based on repair history. I repeat myself when I suggest going to a Sears Outlet, but my most recent refrigerator purchase listed at $1700 and I got it for $800 there. Plus you get to look at the exact appliance you're buying, without having to guess about how high a shelf will "feel' to you or whatever. Yeah, absolutely do not buy a fridge without seeing it in person first. And if you have to fit it into an alcove, remember to measure the alcove, write down the measurements, and bring a tape measure with you to the store so you can be certain it'll fit.
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May 21, 2017 19:53
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We wanted a side-by-side with water and ice dispenser, but we also had to fit it into a space slightly narrower than standard. (The space itself is fine, but there's a doorframe on the left, so the left-opening door has no clearance unless we got a fridge 3 inches narrower than usual). That basically narrowed our choices down to one fridge from GE. But it's been a really good fridge so far. So I think a GE fridge is fine. There were reviews about it being noisy but uh, those are idiots who have never had a fridge that makes ice before, becuase yes if you use some ice then it is going to make batches of ice and dump them into the ice bin until the bin is full again. More generally then I'd say be careful with reviews about refrigerators because people are loving morons.
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May 21, 2017 20:07
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Yeah, absolutely do not buy a fridge without seeing it in person first. And if you have to fit it into an alcove, remember to measure the alcove, write down the measurements, and bring a tape measure with you to the store so you can be certain it'll fit. And be sure to take into account that some hinge designs will require additional width and/or height clearance past the actual dimensions of the refrigerator to actually open the doors...
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May 21, 2017 20:38
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Homeownership: Your fridge doesn't have VR?
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May 21, 2017 21:25
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We've been doing some fridge research, Consumer Reports likes Samsung and LG the best at the moment.
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May 21, 2017 21:40
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Problem! posted:We've been doing some fridge research, Consumer Reports likes Samsung and LG the best at the moment. It depends - for counter depth, it seems to prefer GE, Kitchenaid and Jenn-Air (with the caveat that they're french door which we need because of a lack of space). If you live in TX and are buying appliances, just a heads up that next weekend is tax-free for Energy-Star appliances, so you can save a ton of money.
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May 22, 2017 00:07
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Sab0921 posted:We need to buy a new refrigerator for our house and the process is relatively daunting. There is a ton of conflicting information on which brands are good and which ones are not. Which features are needed and which are dumb and superfluous and of course the people who are like "just get a sub-zero". IIRC fridges with french doors cost way more, and stainless steel fridges cost way more. I personally see no utilitarian benefit from either of these things (there's an argument that french doors let you bend down less, but I don't think that's accurate), so keep that in mind if you don't care as much about those kinds of stylistic choices
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May 22, 2017 01:27
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