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Under capitalism, oppressive aspects of the police force are not bugs, but rather, features. Their role in the suppression, subjugation, and incarceration of the most disenfranchised of this nation serves both as a protective buffer to the wealthy and a means by which a certain portion of them line their pockets (prison labor is virtually slave labor, and you can be sure those profit margins are big). Nothing is more telling about their class loyalties than the marked difference with which the wealthy and poor are treated at every stage of law enforcement and the judicial process. Another thing to consider is that the increased militarization of the police in Seattle specifically is a product of the WTO protests in the late nineties, or in other words, a populist uprising against neoliberalism. As any activist with a basis of comparison anywhere else can tell you, the SPD to this day is one of the most forceful and militant in its response to mass action in this country. We will not likely see the disarmament of the police or their demilitarization so long as these things remain in the interest of the ruling class, at least not without a big fight. However, this fight is necessary for a better society, so wherever possible policies to disarm and defund the police should be pursued and fought for. The police are not an eternal institution in the course of human events, like I mentioned earlier in this thread, the bureaucratic origins of them as they exist now can be found in the slave catching patrols prior to the civil war. Quite frankly in an ideal society they would be abolished as they exist now in favor of community based methods of conflict resolution and defense.
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May 17, 2017 14:17
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Mr. Lobe posted:Under capitalism, oppressive aspects of the police force are not bugs, but rather, features. Their role in the suppression, subjugation, and incarceration of the most disenfranchised of this nation serves both as a protective buffer to the wealthy and a means by which a certain portion of them line their pockets (prison labor is virtually slave labor, and you can be sure those profit margins are big). Nothing is more telling about their class loyalties than the marked difference with which the wealthy and poor are treated at every stage of law enforcement and the judicial process. Another thing to consider is that the increased militarization of the police in Seattle specifically is a product of the WTO protests in the late nineties, or in other words, a populist uprising against neoliberalism. As any activist with a basis of comparison anywhere else can tell you, the SPD to this day is one of the most forceful and militant in its response to mass action in this country. Okay, neat. Not sure what it had to do with the topic, but neat.
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May 17, 2017 14:39
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Peachfart posted:Okay, neat. Not sure what it had to do with the topic, but neat. People were talking about the pay of police force as if the thing that makes them good cops or bad cops is being bribed enough. That's a perspective completely blind the structural role their abuses play.
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May 17, 2017 14:42
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Mr. Lobe posted:People were talking about the pay of police force as if the thing that makes them good cops or bad cops is being bribed enough. That's a perspective completely blind the structural role their abuses play. I think that was a response to people complaining that police get paid better than fsdt food workers, and nobody was saying is it the only factor. Please visit a country where police and government workers are underpaid and tell me it doesn't have an effect on corruption.
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May 17, 2017 14:49
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therobit posted:I think that was a response to people complaining that police get paid better than fsdt food workers, and nobody was saying is it the only factor. Please visit a country where police and government workers are underpaid and tell me it doesn't have an effect on corruption. Even if it's true that paying them less could encourage worse behaviors, you can't pay them into being good, is what I am trying to say. Many of the bad things cops do serve the interests of the ruling class, and thus will always be implicitly encouraged by existing power structures. edited for clarity Mr. Lobe fucked around with this message at 15:20 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 14:58
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Nice troll.
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May 17, 2017 15:13
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Nobody has been arguing that paying cops more prevents them from being shitlords.
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May 17, 2017 16:42
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look ok maybe I just got way too excited to say bad things about cops
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May 17, 2017 16:59
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The Mercury has an article where they interview an anarchist: http://www.portlandmercury.com/news/2017/05/17/19017371/get-to-know-an-anarchist Also this article, titled "Police Union Upset With City For Acknowledging Racism" anthonypants fucked around with this message at 18:31 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 18:22
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Mr. Lobe posted:look ok maybe I just got way too excited to say bad things about cops Haha I get it, I was just making a subtler point and didn't want to look like a loving apologist next to you.
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May 17, 2017 19:34
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Police Unions exist in a weird state of good, where they successfully protect the jobs and the pay of a field with little education required, and bad, everything else they do.
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May 17, 2017 20:31
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anthonypants posted:The Mercury has an article where they interview an anarchist: http://www.portlandmercury.com/news/2017/05/17/19017371/get-to-know-an-anarchist Is blue fragility a thing people say? Cause that would be Mr. Lobe levels of mean. Just kinda asking on behalf of a Police department I know with a nazi in its senior leadership.
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May 17, 2017 21:24
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If it isn't, it should be.
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May 17, 2017 22:17
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It's why that blue line is so thin.
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May 17, 2017 22:28
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The thin abloobloobloo line
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May 18, 2017 01:28
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SyHopeful posted:The thin abloobloobloo line empty goat
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May 18, 2017 01:39
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Shifty Nipples posted:empty goat  
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May 18, 2017 03:37
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instead of paying cops anything we should abolish the police
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May 18, 2017 04:03
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Doorknob Slobber posted:instead of paying cops anything we should abolish the police This
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May 18, 2017 04:23
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I'm phoneposting so no link but did any of you read the WW article about how noted corporate shill Kate Brown wants to sell off state agencies and assets to pay for the pension fund deficit?
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May 18, 2017 04:28
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Doorknob Slobber posted:instead of paying cops anything we should abolish the police True I think private for profit companies would do a much better job without the waste and inefficiency of government systems.
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May 18, 2017 04:42
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We need police but not the police we have.
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May 18, 2017 04:45
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Shifty Nipples posted:We need police but not the police we have. naw no police, thanks in advance
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May 18, 2017 05:35
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precious
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Lazy_Liberal posted:naw no police, thanks in advance anthonypants fucked around with this message at 05:51 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 05:49
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Lazy_Liberal posted:naw no police, thanks in advance you going to vigilante justice for me?
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May 18, 2017 06:19
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i mean in highschool i did get a bunch of people to join my posse but i don't think nearly twenty years later they'd be willing to honor that agreement
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May 18, 2017 06:28
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Shifty Nipples posted:you going to vigilante justice for me? that depends. is it a union job with good wages?
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May 18, 2017 07:57
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That guy who got naked in the airport five years ago had his public nudity case thrown out pretty early on, but the TSA still wanted him to pay a fine for interfering with the TSA. He has lost that court case.
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May 18, 2017 21:16
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The services police provide need to be broken up, and reorganized. We need some of the services the police provide (the good, non violent ones, and the unfortunate but often necessary violent ones), but there is no reason they all need to be under one department by one person. I was driving home today and saw the local police cars say 'Join our team!' or some poo poo. They are pandering at people to be cops, because nobody wants to anymore. Decent people know the cops aren't the good guys they project themselves to be, or at least understand it's grittier and not as sexy a job as it is in the movies. But people should want to be doing a job where you help people. That should be a job that attracts some of the best people in society (like Firemen, who do a great job at filling a specific service).
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May 19, 2017 07:46
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yeah, an agency for finding lost bikes and kids without all the murder would be neat as heck
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May 19, 2017 07:59
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Almost as neat as the department for violence that is unfortunate but often necessary.
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May 19, 2017 08:05
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Welcome to GBS posted:Almost as neat as the department for violence that is unfortunate but often necessary. I've been proposing this for a long time. Just take guns away from the average cop and rely on SWAT or some new group for situations that require lethal force. That way you don't have a bunch of poorly trained psychos running around with guns and the ones who do have them would be the trained to a much higher degree. There are practically no cases where a cop arrives on the scene and saves the day because they have a gun. I'm not against guns, I just think people create fantasies about how effective they are at saving lives, people legitimately say things like "if only someone with a gun were there to stop them".
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May 19, 2017 17:46
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Instead of paying police more, the focus on what the police do and why, needs to be dealt with. Instead of giving them better perks and pay, give their departments more funding that's not based on numbers of arrests and tickets but rather based on stuff like the community's opinion of them, actual results in the community, and how many people they help out of crises situations rather than taking out of those situations forcefully and then uprooting their life because of it. I talked with a really authoritarian conservative cop about this stuff for a good long while before and since he kept snidely asking me how I'd improve things, I'd give more funding to the departments as a whole for staffing and outreach, largely including unarmed officers whose primary responsibility is to do stuff like contact people who have warrants and offer them education about their situation, and options on how to peacefully resolve it without being immediately moved from their life. A lot of people with warrants have no idea they have them for instance, and they often have jobs or other responsibilities or difficulties which prevented them from "properly" responding. Since the police current MO for warrants is to bang on or bash in the door while armed and expecting trouble, a lot of people freak out and do stupid poo poo like jump out a window and get shot or charged with additional charges, or barricade themselves in, or attempt to dissuade the officers in a way which causes them to get injured or charged with even more things to ruin their life. If a pair of unarmed folks drove up in a not-cop-car and knocked on someone's door and communicated with the suspect civilly and made it clear that they were not there to immediately arrest them, a lot of people would have the chance to do whatever needs to be done to address their charges without being perp-walked into courtroom, or shot. There needs to be infrastructure in place to deal with non-incarceration-based solutions to a huge number of nonviolent offenses, which can and do pile up on folks and lock them into a vicious cycle which ultimately leads to death, incarceration, and acculturation of the prison/anti-police mindset. When the only time you see a cop coming toward you, you are afraid, that is problem number one. And it'd take a lot to change that for many communities and individuals, but I can't see how it would ultimately be worse than what we currently have going. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 18:11 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 18:08
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Cop pay should be the index for minimum wage. 60k a year to flip burgers, with a gradual increase to 90k after 5 years? That'd fix the economy quickly and nobody would have to be a cop to become middle class!
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May 20, 2017 00:57
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Someone got stabbed at a MAX station today http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/05/19/19024011/a-stabbing-on-the-lloyd-center-max-platform-is-affecting-trimet-service
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May 20, 2017 01:03
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aww i hope she's okay
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May 20, 2017 02:18
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coyo7e posted:Instead of paying police more, the focus on what the police do and why, needs to be dealt with. Instead of giving them better perks and pay, give their departments more funding that's not based on numbers of arrests and tickets but rather based on stuff like the community's opinion of them, actual results in the community, and how many people they help out of crises situations rather than taking out of those situations forcefully and then uprooting their life because of it. I've been told that this incident "changed everything" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZg4mcYkIwU
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May 20, 2017 03:21
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Shifty Nipples posted:I've been told that this incident "changed everything"
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May 20, 2017 03:36
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There are police in other countries that don't carry weapons, and actually act as a public servant of some sort. I dunno why we couldn't have that.
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May 20, 2017 03:43
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seiferguy posted:There are police in other countries that don't carry weapons, and actually act as a public servant of some sort. I dunno why we couldn't have that. They still serve the same ultimate purpose of protecting capital and keeping the working class in line.
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May 20, 2017 05:12
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