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Godholio posted:You mean the Blackhawks that weren't squawking properly? Or crazy poo poo like the F-15E that dumped an LGB on a goddamned hovering helo? The Blackhawks that didn't have working IFF yes. It wasn't that they didn't squawk properly, they had lovely IFF (can't remember if it was hardware or codes). Aside from the fact the F-15s shot two aircraft that were obviously not visually Mi-17s after doing a really poo poo visual identification.
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May 20, 2017 05:50
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Two Finger posted:wait what Indeed. Kill confirmed by the Special Forces team they were flying ISO. Because the F-15E owns.
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May 20, 2017 06:04
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I taught pilots Vis Recce all the time when I worked in a fighter squadron- they are very good at it. It's part of every intel brief pre-mission. We'll never let the pilots blame bad Vis Recce training again. May not be true outside of F-15C's and F-22's however.
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May 20, 2017 06:05
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:I taught pilots Vis Recce all the time when I worked in a fighter squadron- they are very good at it. It's part of every intel brief pre-mission. We'll never let the pilots blame bad Vis Recce training again. Even airlift crews are required to do Vis Recce as part of their annual training. Not all of them are good at it. I was, but I won't pretend it was a skill I ever used.
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May 20, 2017 06:12
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:I taught pilots Vis Recce all the time when I worked in a fighter squadron- they are very good at it. It's part of every intel brief pre-mission. We'll never let the pilots blame bad Vis Recce training again. Oh, I know. We had classes on it all the time. But back then I don't think it was such a huge item. I'm pretty sure a lot of it was because of that shootdown. It was due to bad decisions on both sides, but it resulted in a lot of deaths.
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May 20, 2017 06:14
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WAR CRIME SYNDICAT posted:Oh, I know. We had classes on it all the time. But back then I don't think it was such a huge item. I'm pretty sure a lot of it was because of that shootdown. It was due to bad decisions on both sides, but it resulted in a lot of deaths. It was absolutely because of that shootdown, and a general lack of standardized intel training between squadrons. Things are so standardized now I was able to integrate 3 intel bubbas and their F-16 pilots into our squadron with one afternoon worth of training. Standardization is a good thing.
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May 20, 2017 06:19
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cowboy elvis posted:That helo kill and an F-111 getting some dipshit to CFIT are cool as heck. Not just an F-111, an unarmed EF-111.  The crew got DFCs.And yeah, that helicopter was on the ground at release, and there was a SOF team lasing it...it took off and they kept the laser on target. Boom.
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May 20, 2017 06:42
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:It was absolutely because of that shootdown, and a general lack of standardized intel training between squadrons. I know it's why IFF is a mission cancelation item now for basically everyone especially Blackhawks and Blackhawk variants.
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May 20, 2017 06:44
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I've seen far more Blackhawks squawking wrong than right. They didn't learn poo poo. That shootdown completely changed AWACS training. An entire month was added to the training pipeline for new controllers and for every positional upgrade (every upgrade except instructor/evaluator). The community is still annoyed that the only person to face any real blowback was the AWACS SD. He was acquitted, at least.
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May 20, 2017 06:47
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Eh AF hawks in the AOR are generally paranoid as gently caress about it. I assumed the army would be too but who the gently caress knows.
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May 20, 2017 06:53
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Godholio posted:Not just an F-111, an unarmed EF-111. Link? I don't think I've heard this story.
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May 20, 2017 07:01
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cowboy elvis posted:an F-111 getting some dipshit to CFIT are cool as heck. Why yes I would like to know more...
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May 20, 2017 07:08
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Godholio posted:And yeah, that helicopter was on the ground at release, and there was a SOF team lasing it...it took off and they kept the laser on target. Boom. The EF-111 crew absolutely deserved the DFCs and the kill. Godholio posted:The community is still annoyed that the only person to face any real blowback was the AWACS SD. He was acquitted, at least.
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May 20, 2017 07:10
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Wikipedia posted:
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May 20, 2017 07:11
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Dead Reckoning posted:Actually, it was the Strike Eagle WSO kept the laser on target. It was in the article I linked. That's actually the first account I've seen where the WSO gets that credit...sounds like the crew themselves wrote it, so I'll buy that. quote:The EF-111 crew absolutely deserved the DFCs and the kill. quote:Yeah, that was some bullshit. It's been a while since I last read about the case, but IIRC there was (is) a fundamental reluctance among aircrew to officially condemn the in-the-moment decisions of their peers. See also: Tarnak Farms. The SD got left holding the potato when the music stopped. Not to say he didn't do anything wrong, but he was just one hole in the cheese. The problem with nailing the SD is that as you say, he was one cog. The entire AWACS mission crew shared equal blame, but back then the kind of internal communication used today just wasn't taught or emphasized. The one thing that could've avoided the whole situation was people in the surveillance and weapons sections talking to each other within and between the groups. A couple of people saw the Blackhawks fade, a couple of other people picked up the "new" contacts when they cleared terrain...terrain which is not displayed on the AWACS radar scope. Nobody was talking to each other. Nowadays there are a thousand variations of "Don't play 'I've got a secret'" and "a message not acknowledged is a message not received" within the AWACS community. But how the two pilots who incorrectly VIDed escaped prosecution when someone else didn't is beyond me. Honestly I don't think anyone deserved charges on that one. Blackhawks with those stubby wings...I mean, I can see how it happened.
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May 20, 2017 07:30
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Looks like we have SIGINT between Russians bragging about how much leverage they had with Flynn. This is like finding out Santa Claus is a pedophile. God. Dammit. The other day some retired 4 star got on CNN and didn't just hint at, he said, he thinks Flynn's mental health was compromised. 
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May 20, 2017 08:28
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I've personally been a part of a dangerous situation caused by "unacknowledged is unreceived" and that's definitely a huge thing. (one of my two near midair collisions, missed the other bird by 30 feet and only then because I saw we were rapidly converging and screamed to break) Riot Carol Danvers fucked around with this message at 08:32 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 08:29
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:Looks like we have SIGINT between Russians bragging about how much leverage they had with Flynn. A broken mirror does not lose its brilliance. Consider Ben Carson. A genius neurosurgeon, but for all intents and purposes otherwise a retard.
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May 20, 2017 08:38
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:Looks like we have SIGINT between Russians bragging about how much leverage they had with Flynn. Yea, when I heard that on Maddow from probably the same dude. "Spent too long chasing the white whale" I think is how the guy put it. WAR CRIME SYNDICAT posted:I've personally been a part of a dangerous situation caused by "unacknowledged is unreceived" and that's definitely a huge thing. I'm not a pilot but from pilot talk that I heard.. I thought 1000 foot misses was pants making GBS threads territory? 30 loving feet sounds like a mid air that everyone just managed to walk away from. Don't you run into wake issues at that range? Like the wash will put you into the dirt? It sounds really loving close and.. Bad.
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May 20, 2017 09:02
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I don't recall ever doing vis recce in awacs because lol why would we no one liked us
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May 20, 2017 09:09
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Thanks  I hope those sparkys felt  as poo poo after that (and cleaned their onesies after getting shot at)
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May 20, 2017 10:28
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you just know they yelled TELL ME SOMEONE SAW THAT into the radio
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May 20, 2017 11:11
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Godholio posted:You mean the Blackhawks that weren't squawking properly? Or crazy poo poo like the F-15E that dumped an LGB on a goddamned hovering helo? Yeah the ones the F-15s swore they had VID on as Hinds. In an environment of competition with Viper pilots to get the most kills. For those who don't know, Blackhawks don't look like Hinds. Or maybe Hips? Regardless. E: Actually, I'm kind of peeved. Didn't change anything != fielding literally every helo with Mode 4 and determining that it required a GO waiver to fly without Mode 4 in combat zones is a pretty big change. It just took literally a decade or more (more like 2+ decades) to field all the upgrades. mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 13:02 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 12:54
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What if Donnie doesn't get impeached but everyone around him goes to jail and he gets stuck with a bunch of people that tell him to gently caress off and he spends the rest of his presidency pouting? I think that would rule however unrealistic it may be.
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May 20, 2017 13:18
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TBeats posted:What if Donnie doesn't get impeached but everyone around him goes to jail and he gets stuck with a bunch of people that tell him to gently caress off and he spends the rest of his presidency pouting? Most likely outcome is that this takes up all of his and Republicans' time until the 2018 elections when they lose the house and possibly the Senate (bit less likely looking at the legislative map). Democrats form a select committee to badger and humiliate Donnie more, and then he loses reelection in 2020, along with Republicans potentially losing the Senate. Democrats really need to focus on taking back the house and winning state legislatures.
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May 20, 2017 13:29
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https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/865902296743505920 enuf is enuf
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May 20, 2017 13:40
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I served with McMaster and he signed a copy of his book for me back then. I'm unsure of my current opinion; he's either falling on his sword for the country or he's infected like everyone else.
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May 20, 2017 14:28
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Vasudus posted:I served with McMaster and he signed a copy of his book for me back then. I'm unsure of my current opinion; he's either falling on his sword for the country or he's infected like everyone else. Once you start to compromise to keep your job and "be effective" it's hard to stop. He should re-read his own book.
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May 20, 2017 14:42
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Zeroisanumber posted:Once you start to compromise to keep your job and "be effective" it's hard to stop. He should re-read his own book. https://twitter.com/jenniferjjacobs/status/865926295493894144 
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May 20, 2017 15:23
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Sorry vas
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May 20, 2017 15:24
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If Kushner offered me a high five I'd put my hand into a fist and go right for his stupid yuppie face.
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May 20, 2017 15:32
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Oh and we just signed an arms deal of >$100 billion usd with Saudi Arabia so congratulations Trump voters, you'll never understand the irony but you can go gently caress yourselves anyway.
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May 20, 2017 15:42
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Office Pig posted:Oh and we just signed an arms deal of >$100 billion usd with Saudi Arabia so congratulations Trump voters, you'll never understand the irony but you can go gently caress yourselves anyway. Fairly normal business. We've been selling the Saudis guns and bombs for decades.
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May 20, 2017 15:43
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Zeroisanumber posted:Fairly normal business. We've been selling the Saudis guns and bombs for decades. I know, it's still irritating. And in hindsight it's not the worst possible thing that might come out of this tour. A low bar, sure, but I'll accept that with a president who will cave to the whims of just about anybody who butters him up well enough. ded redd fucked around with this message at 15:48 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 15:44
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Zeroisanumber posted:Fairly normal business. We've been selling the Saudis guns and bombs for decades. Yes but this is the anti globalist, all muslims are bad president they thought they voted for
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May 20, 2017 15:49
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In theory, arming the Saudis should reduce the need for us to stick our dick in the crazy that is the middle east. In practice, we've gleefully done it anyway, so I'm not really sure what benefit we're getting other than making MIC investors' portfolios tick up a couple of points.
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May 20, 2017 15:50
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psydude posted:In theory, arming the Saudis should reduce the need for us to stick our dick in the crazy that is the middle east. In practice, we've gleefully done it anyway, so I'm not really sure what benefit we're getting other than making MIC investors' portfolios tick up a couple of points. Are they still fighting in Yemen? I remember seeing them get a few Abrams wrecked by guided rockets, but I really haven't heard much about it over the last year because US politics is such a shitshow.
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May 20, 2017 15:55
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Yeah they're quite heavily involved there and have been taking some pretty substantial losses.
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May 20, 2017 16:17
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Office Pig posted:Oh and we just signed an arms deal of >$100 billion usd with Saudi Arabia so congratulations Trump voters, you'll never understand the irony but you can go gently caress yourselves anyway. That's just business as usual, though: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/18/world/middleeast/jared-kushner-saudi-arabia-arms-deal-lockheed.html
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May 20, 2017 16:34
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Apparently what's going around is that the Saudi king bowed to Trump, as opposed to Obama who bowed to the king. This means that foreign countries recognize they're dealing with an America that doesn't take poo poo again.
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May 20, 2017 16:39
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