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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Cities Skylines 2: a phonecall from sweden
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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

turn off the TV posted:

Uhhh well, Bloody Penguin apparently was able to reverse engineer or somehow get his hands on the code of IPT and released his own version.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=928128676

Also, Traffic Manager: President Edition got some new and extremely cool features:

Bloody Penguin is the loving star of skylines. He should personally get like 50% of all sales the game makes.

* # ? May 18, 2017 21:17
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# ? May 25, 2024 13:09
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LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

turn off the TV posted:

E: one thing that I've never understood is why the agent pathfinding system calculates for every trip, instead of just finding a route to the cim's school/job and a set of stores, then reusing that information until there's a change made to that route.

You know I'm not sure how I hadn't really thought of it this way before now, but yeah the only reason I can think of to re-calculate for every trip is if you were taking transient conditions aka traffic into consideration.

And really, it's not like real-world people don't just find the most copacetic route between home and work and then follow it 95% of the time. Definitely seems like a good place to save some computational budget unless they were originally planning to do something with it.

* # ? May 18, 2017 22:09
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Dred_furst
Nov 19, 2007

"Hey look, I'm flying a giant dong"

turn off the TV posted:

E: one thing that I've never understood is why the agent pathfinding system calculates for every trip, instead of just finding a route to the cim's school/job and a set of stores, then reusing that information until there's a change made to that route.

TM:PE mucks with this for cars at least. This should help performance a lot.

quote:

Advanced Vehicle AI: Algorithm updated, performance improved - Possible routing decisions are now being precalculated

e: this implies it calculates multiple different routes then weights them depending on traffic when the car leaves. this is a lot more efficient than trying to pathfind when the agent leaves.

Dred_furst fucked around with this message at 22:32 on May 18, 2017

* # ? May 18, 2017 22:29
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ROFLburger
Jan 12, 2006

 Do taxis do poo poo? I've never had taxi utilization numbers seem worthwhile

* # ? May 18, 2017 22:52
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turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

Dred_furst posted:

TM:PE mucks with this for cars at least. This should help performance a lot.


e: this implies it calculates multiple different routes then weights them depending on traffic when the car leaves. this is a lot more efficient than trying to pathfind when the agent leaves.

Yeah, I had read that as precalculating multiple routes every time the car leaves, not necessarily just doing it and then storing that information.

ROFLburger posted:

Do taxis do poo poo? I've never had taxi utilization numbers seem worthwhile

They are really handy with certain mods, but in the vanilla game they're pretty useless.

* # ? May 18, 2017 23:28
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ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC
So just to confirm. Would there be any downside to not buying Disasters and skipping to Transit? Any really good mods have dependencies on ND dlc?

* # ? May 18, 2017 23:48
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Nostalgia4Infinity
Feb 27, 2007

10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING
thought i'd check out the new expansion, garbage trucks bugged, no mods, neat!

* # ? May 18, 2017 23:50
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Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
I switched to the new IPT and deactivated the useless mods (like one way arrows) and was able to launch the game with no issues.

Even some that Reddit said didn't work were fine for me (Metro Overhaul, One way tracks)

* # ? May 18, 2017 23:56
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turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

thought i'd check out the new expansion, garbage trucks bugged, no mods, neat!

If you're using any traffic AI mods, like the Skylines Overwatch ones, they don't work anymore.

ToastyPotato posted:

So just to confirm. Would there be any downside to not buying Disasters and skipping to Transit? Any really good mods have dependencies on ND dlc?

I can't think of any mods that use ND.

* # ? May 19, 2017 00:45
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Nostalgia4Infinity
Feb 27, 2007

10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING

turn off the TV posted:

If you're using any traffic AI mods, like the Skylines Overwatch ones, they don't work anymore.


I can't think of any mods that use ND.

Ugh that might be it. Does this game hide files anywhere other than the install directory. Doing a full reinstall.

* # ? May 19, 2017 00:47
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Man Musk
Jan 13, 2010

 I just figured out the street naming system, this game is cute/10

* # ? May 19, 2017 08:19
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Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013

I seemed to have developed a bug. At certain levels of zoom, all buildings disappear. This has only started to happen (that I noticed) after I placed ferry buildings. Any idea why it'd start happening then, or what exactly's causing it?


e: If I delete the ferry buildings, pathways and routes, the buildings no longer disappear, but trees flicker in and out of existence at a certain draw distance.

e2: Saved and reloaded and the flickering's gone now entirely. :shrug:

e3: Added ferries back in, flickering returned, saved, quit the game and reloaded and the flickering is back. One of the bajillion mods I got is probably loving something up there, rip.

Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 15:30 on May 19, 2017

* # ? May 19, 2017 14:34
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Suspect Bucket
Jan 15, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR
Some day I will be able to invoke the dread of Alternate Side Of The Street Parking on my Cims.

* # ? May 19, 2017 15:08
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Doorknob Slobber
Sep 10, 2006

by Fluffdaddy
With this new dlc I've decided to start again, but can anyone recommend me a super cool map to play on?

Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 16:28 on May 19, 2017

* # ? May 19, 2017 16:24
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turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

Ofaloaf posted:



I seemed to have developed a bug. At certain levels of zoom, all buildings disappear. This has only started to happen (that I noticed) after I placed ferry buildings. Any idea why it'd start happening then, or what exactly's causing it?


e: If I delete the ferry buildings, pathways and routes, the buildings no longer disappear, but trees flicker in and out of existence at a certain draw distance.

e2: Saved and reloaded and the flickering's gone now entirely. :shrug:

e3: Added ferries back in, flickering returned, saved, quit the game and reloaded and the flickering is back. One of the bajillion mods I got is probably loving something up there, rip.

Flickering and objects vanishing is usually caused by a bad asset, like any sort of vehicle, prop, tree or building.

Doorknob Slobber posted:

With this new dlc I've decided to start again, but can anyone recommend me a super cool map to play on?

I've been looking for maps that would be good for ferries and cable cars, and I've made a collection of the ones I've liked.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=928723228

* # ? May 19, 2017 17:54
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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

 Spent the last 2 days just pruning my mod list, looking for updated versions of abandoned mods that need to obviously be re-subscribed to, and making sure the game loads properly. Haven't even started a map yet.
As much I love this game and running it with a million essential mods and assets it can be so much upfront work before you actually play.

* # ? May 19, 2017 18:06
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Nostalgia4Infinity
Feb 27, 2007

10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING
Is there still a mod that will let me unlock all the tiles on a map when I start but still do the building unlock things?

* # ? May 19, 2017 18:12
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turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

Is there still a mod that will let me unlock all the tiles on a map when I start but still do the building unlock things?

Yeah, 81 tiles allows you to unlock every tile after you load the map.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=576327847

* # ? May 19, 2017 18:17
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ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]
It seems kind of crazy to have a mass transit expansion to the game without changing the fact that the virtual population just flocks to and jams a single up a single type of mass transit. Really crazy actually. What fun are new mass transit toys when adding them to your city just breaks your current transit network?

* # ? May 19, 2017 20:23
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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

ZombieLenin posted:

It seems kind of crazy to have a mass transit expansion to the game without changing the fact that the virtual population just flocks to and jams a single up a single type of mass transit. Really crazy actually. What fun are new mass transit toys when adding them to your city just breaks your current transit network?

If they added a touch more detail to how cims choose transit then suddenly the game would become a "transit sim" instead of a "highway overpass building sim" which is NOT what this game is about!!!!! Also they might lose win98 support if they toss a couple extra calculations onto transit choice calculations.

* # ? May 19, 2017 20:26
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turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

 There are a few modders I can think of who might know if something along those lines would be possible.

E: Also, it turns out that CO added unbunching and decided not to mention it anywhere.

turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 20:37 on May 19, 2017

* # ? May 19, 2017 20:30
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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

 What's weird is once again CO already solved the transit line issue in previous games.
Assign each line and transit in general a "reputation". Long waits at stops and long travel times decrease it, which adds a weight against using that line. Easy, problem solved. Expand the system to cover other transport methods too. Your city has horrible traffic resulting in cars being stuck in jams all the time? Lowers "reputation" for driving, which could push more cims towards transit, or walking, or biking and so on. Doesn't need complex new pathing calculations, just a simple system that nudges cim's travel preferences based on the very general conditions in your city.

* # ? May 19, 2017 20:38
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turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

 I'm looking at Traffic Manager: President Edition's old code (for some reason the new version isn't on github), and the mod's transport decision code looks like this:

code:
				carProb = GetCarProbability(instanceID, ref citizenData, ageGroup);
				bikeProb = GetBikeProbability(instanceID, ref citizenData, ageGroup);
				taxiProb = GetTaxiProbability(instanceID, ref citizenData, ageGroup);
			}
			Randomizer randomizer = new Randomizer(citizenData.m_citizen);
			bool useCar = randomizer.Int32(100u) < carProb;
			bool useBike = randomizer.Int32(100u) < bikeProb;
			bool useTaxi = randomizer.Int32(100u) < taxiProb;
			ItemClass.Service service = ItemClass.Service.Residential;
			ItemClass.SubService subService = ItemClass.SubService.ResidentialLow;
			if (!useCar && useTaxi) {
				service = ItemClass.Service.PublicTransport;
					subService = ItemClass.SubService.PublicTransportTaxi;
Granted, I barely know anything about coding, but it looks to me like the game has three variables, cars, bikes and taxis. The game randomly generates a value for each of the transport types. Whichever one has the highest value gets picked. If the game chooses a car or bike it uses the residential service item class, with the residential low subservice (I assume that bikes and cars fall into this category). If it does not choose a car, and does use a taxi, it uses the public transport item class, with the taxi subservice.

This makes me wonder if it would be possible to add a fourth boolean for public transport, and from there repeat the process for each transit type, allowing you to adjust them by age, wealth, and density.

e: Looks like this is nearly identical to what the vanilla game uses.

e2: I asked Bloody Penguin about AI public transit preferences and he said that he's planning on adding something along those lines to IPT2.

turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 00:49 on May 20, 2017

* # ? May 19, 2017 23:04
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Eskaton
Aug 13, 2014
 There's a few new Detroit buildings on the workshop if you guys from the metro still browse here.

Ofaloaf posted:

I just want to build a collection of small towns that start off sitting on the main roads, like



Just some little burgs on state roads, you know? No big highways, at least not at first, I can build those myself later.

Could just use a two lane road to more accurately reflect the speeds you can take on the pretty bad roads around there. I've been to that ice cream place on 1st and Main in Edmore.

Eskaton fucked around with this message at 04:46 on May 20, 2017

* # ? May 20, 2017 04:39
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MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003

I can finally build an accurate Melbourne simulator!

turn off the TV posted:

E: Also, it turns out that CO added unbunching and decided not to mention it anywhere.

Oh, well, that's nice.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 06:03 on May 20, 2017

* # ? May 20, 2017 05:59
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BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
 Whenever I put down residental houses manually (RICO) they instantly despawn when I unpause the game. What am I doing wrong???

* # ? May 20, 2017 13:45
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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Baronjutter posted:

What's weird is once again CO already solved the transit line issue in previous games.
Assign each line and transit in general a "reputation". Long waits at stops and long travel times decrease it, which adds a weight against using that line. Easy, problem solved. Expand the system to cover other transport methods too. Your city has horrible traffic resulting in cars being stuck in jams all the time? Lowers "reputation" for driving, which could push more cims towards transit, or walking, or biking and so on. Doesn't need complex new pathing calculations, just a simple system that nudges cim's travel preferences based on the very general conditions in your city.
Something like that is subject to serious oscillations without coefficients with some ridiculous precision found after a shitload of balancing. Those coefficients themselves might also need to be a function of the state of the city which starts approaching a problem that is hard to tackle algorithmically, but that could turn into a gameplay feature where you tweak the advertising or whatever to push people to one or the other. It would be awesome and amazing and probably multiple man years of work which is a large ask for a studio of like a dozen people. Different modes makes it a little easier than dynamic routing and there's already a probablistic portion of agent decision making to prefer different modes already because that fuzz is necessary for the bare minimum of cims not all flocking to the single fastest route, which turns to the slowest because its over capacity.

Simple idea, complex implementation, but it would totally be the secret sauce that would be fundamental in making Skylines a better game instead of just putting more and more frosting on a staling cake.

ZombieLenin posted:

It seems kind of crazy to have a mass transit expansion to the game without changing the fact that the virtual population just flocks to and jams a single up a single type of mass transit. Really crazy actually. What fun are new mass transit toys when adding them to your city just breaks your current transit network?
Transit at the moment exists entirely to trap cims forever in station purgatory to keep them off the road in deference of the taxable trucks. I won't argue its time for a new, better game with better mechanics though, its just rebalancing from the ground up. Which it really needs.

* # ? May 20, 2017 15:07
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turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

zedprime posted:

Those coefficients themselves might also need to be a function of the state of the city which starts approaching a problem that is hard to tackle algorithmically, but that could turn into a gameplay feature where you tweak the advertising or whatever to push people to one or the other.

I think that BP may be planning on doing this with line or vehicle fares.

* # ? May 20, 2017 15:34
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Mayveena
Dec 27, 2006

People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

BigglesSWE posted:

Whenever I put down residental houses manually (RICO) they instantly despawn when I unpause the game. What am I doing wrong???

Try not to zone while paused. Is there any demand for residences? I'm a casual so my advice might not be the best but that's what I would look at.

* # ? May 20, 2017 16:03
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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

turn off the TV posted:

I think that BP may be planning on doing this with line or vehicle fares.
Tweaking preferences is sort of in the game already I think, supposedly that probablistic part of cims choosing transport is swayed by how fully funded transport systems are. Its the whole shebang that would be novel.

* # ? May 20, 2017 16:07
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Doorknob Slobber
Sep 10, 2006

by Fluffdaddy
there was a mod that added multi lane highway offramps, what was that

* # ? May 20, 2017 17:38
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turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

BigglesSWE posted:

Whenever I put down residental houses manually (RICO) they instantly despawn when I unpause the game. What am I doing wrong???

Grab Disable Zone Check.

Doorknob Slobber posted:

there was a mod that added multi lane highway offramps, what was that

Probably Network Extensions 2.

* # ? May 20, 2017 17:46
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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

 I got rid of a lot of my road building mods because people said they were still in the base game. I kept sharp junctions though. What I'm missing is the one that told me the exact height of my network and let me toggle if it was forced to be a bridge or not. Which mod was that ?

* # ? May 20, 2017 17:59
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Lack of Gravitas
Oct 11, 2012

Grimey Drawer

Baronjutter posted:

I got rid of a lot of my road building mods because people said they were still in the base game. I kept sharp junctions though. What I'm missing is the one that told me the exact height of my network and let me toggle if it was forced to be a bridge or not. Which mod was that ?

Fine Road Tool? http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=651322972

* # ? May 20, 2017 18:14
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BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!

turn off the TV posted:

Grab Disable Zone Check.

Sound really useful. Will get ASAP, thanks!

* # ? May 20, 2017 19:21
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HORMELCHILI
Jan 13, 2010


 Wish someone would fix Dynamic Resolution already, thats like my favorite mod

* # ? May 20, 2017 19:59
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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

BigglesSWE posted:

Sound really useful. Will get ASAP, thanks!

Disable zone check, plus move it, plus building eyedropper tool really lets you take poo poo up to the next level. It lets you have growable buildings basically wherever so you can make some really cool shaped blocks. Want all your buildings set a tile back from the road to simulate really wide sidewalks? Go for it!

* # ? May 20, 2017 20:07
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turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

 I just remembered that CDPR allows porting of their game's assets for mods running on any other game. Time to upscale some W3 textures so I can finally make a public release of a theme with less noticeable tiling than what's available on the workshop.

HORMELCHILI posted:

Wish someone would fix Dynamic Resolution already, thats like my favorite mod

If you have a good enough GPU to run dynamic resolution you probably can just force AA with your drivers. I'm running the full suite of Nvidia AA options for Cities and it looks about as good as it did running at 4k.

* # ? May 20, 2017 21:28
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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

 So does anyone else always spend like 2-3 hours every time they want to make a new city making a new map? I never like anyone else's maps because they'll have like 20% grade railway tracks or 50 huge ugly highway interchanges all over the place :(

Also I have a new bug I've never seen before. Huge perfectly square chunks of my trees are vanishing. It's just graphical because as soon as I plant some new trees they all pop back.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 22:04 on May 20, 2017

* # ? May 20, 2017 22:00
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# ? May 25, 2024 13:09
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turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

 I made this post on the C:S subreddit, but I figure that people here would like it too. Here's a list of a bunch of growable collections/asset creators broken up into themes.

quote:


Baronjutter posted:

So does anyone else always spend like 2-3 hours every time they want to make a new city making a new map? I never like anyone else's maps because they'll have like 20% grade railway tracks or 50 huge ugly highway interchanges all over the place :(

Also I have a new bug I've never seen before. Huge perfectly square chunks of my trees are vanishing. It's just graphical because as soon as I plant some new trees they all pop back.

I always end up making a map, spending 24 hours making the map, and then playing for like 8.

* # ? May 20, 2017 22:20
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Cities Skylines 2: a phonecall from sweden
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