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Reminder that tax evasion is estimated very conservatively at 1 trillion euros per year in the eu.that's more money than Germany France the UK and Italy spend on healthcare put together. Not the cost of public healthcare,the entire sector.but sure ,its not "economically sustainable" to give people " their fair share".
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May 19, 2017 22:41
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Are you sure? I mean, education might very well be the reason those people believe it was about states' rights. Being taught actively wrong things is not education. However a ton of the people who honestly believe "State's rights" are older folks who didn't ever complete high school (americans did not become majority high school graduates until the 70s), often not even completing middle school - you wouldn't really say they were educated regardless.
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May 19, 2017 22:42
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fishmech posted:Being taught actively wrong things is not education. However a ton of the people who honestly believe "State's rights" are older folks who didn't ever complete high school (americans did not become majority high school graduates until the 70s), often not even completing middle school - you wouldn't really say they were educated regardless. As for your second point, maybe they were not formally educated, but so what? Is it unlikely that they were educated by their peers, or superiors in their community, on what the Civil War was really about?
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May 19, 2017 22:51
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Fados posted:The thing is, in my view, America is actually starting to develop a capable alternative under the banner of Sanders and his movement to primary centrist Dems and take over the party. Nothing like that is even close to happening in Europe, in no little degree, because the lack of a european politics proper. So tbh I'd give America a better chance at not succumbing to neo-fascism than europe because only a strong populist left alternative can stem the current trend. Yeah. Jeremy Corbyn and Melenchon never happened.
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May 20, 2017 00:41
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Gérard Collomb said a thing: https://twitter.com/Inatone/status/865478501217951744 "In my generation, we saw for instance the excesses that took place in Germany and Italy" (meaning the Red Brigades & Baader-Meinhof) [...] One must careful that violent language from a certain number of political men and women does not turn into violent acts. There are words in the French political debate from the far left and sometimes from the far-right, that are extremely violent and can therefore push people towards radicalization. Radicalization is not only islamist." (emphasis mine) Love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal.
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May 20, 2017 08:36
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Baader was right
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May 20, 2017 08:59
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Yeah. Jeremy Corbyn and Melenchon never happened. On that note, a nice article in the Irish Times on former PSOE leader Pedro Sánchhez trying to win back his party leadership in an internal election: quote:As he stepped up to an outdoor podium on Wednesday in the mountainous eastern town of Teruel, Pedro Sánchez didn’t look like a man hoping to lead Spain’s main opposition party and one day become prime minister. A red banner bearing the insignia of the Spanish Socialist Workers’ Party (PSOE) fluttered behind him in the wind, but Sánchez – wearing a leather jacket, a chequered shirt and jeans – looked more like a casual but fashionable onlooker. (Sánchez insists though that his project is reformist, not a total break from the established order that Podemos allegedly supports/represents. So with the legacy of the PSOE tainted by corruption as well, and the previous PSOE government thrown out over its austerity policies in response to the financial crisis, who's to say if this will convince any leftwing voter now?)
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May 20, 2017 10:14
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Kassad posted:Gérard Collomb said a thing: Wow, hosed up that someone would speak out against the RAF. This will tank his career for sure. We all know that actually, murdering people to establish an authoritarian communist dictatorship is good.    Oops haha, well that bricklayer was probably a class enemy anyway.
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May 20, 2017 10:29
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Hmmm yes, this is truly about East Germany and not about trying to paint a false equivalence between French left-wing parties and the Front National. Guess what, it's only the FN that has a history of murdering people because they're the "wrong kind". Why do you think I bolded one specific section? Kassad fucked around with this message at 10:44 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 10:36
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Of course the far left and its 50,000 one-man parties are not a realistic threat to our society. I guess that dude is just old and remembers when it was different.
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May 20, 2017 10:47
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Kassad posted:Hmmm yes, this is truly about East Germany and not about trying to paint a false equivalence between French left-wing parties and the Front National. Guess what, it's only the FN that has a history of murdering people because they're the "wrong kind". To be fair, Melenchon supported the Venezuelan left-wing government which is actually killing people so, uhm, maybe don't elect radical left-wing parties who will have to use force to enforce their policies?
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May 20, 2017 10:54
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Phlegmish posted:Of course the far left and its 50,000 one-man parties are not a realistic threat to our society. I guess that dude is just old and remembers when it was different. Considering in France we have a far more significant history of violent right-wing groups -- including an attempted military coup -- largely under the guise of resisting communism, Colomb's remark seems profoundly ill-judged.
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May 20, 2017 11:02
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lost in postation posted:Considering in France we have a far more significant history of violent right-wing groups -- including an attempted military coup -- largely under the guise of resisting communism, Colomb's remark seems profoundly ill-judged. Let me tell you about "la Terreur"
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May 20, 2017 11:29
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To be fair, that was a liberal revolution.
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May 20, 2017 11:33
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GaussianCopula posted:Let me tell you about "la Terreur" I'm sure that's more relevant today than the OAS coup, whose organisers had ties to the current FN hierarchy.
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May 20, 2017 11:40
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lost in postation posted:I'm sure that's more relevant today than the OAS coup, whose organisers had ties to the current FN hierarchy. Ah, but is it less relevant than the Jacquerie of 1358? I for one can't wait for GC's enlightened opinion about this.
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May 20, 2017 11:45
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The Dutch coalition negotiations collapsed (VVD, CDA, D66, Greenleft) and some retarded third wayer wrote that it's time for Labour, which went from something like 30 to 11 seats, to join the negotiations because "if we can get Dijsselbloem on finance, surely we will bounce back in the next elections!" Do these people live in an alternate dimension? What the gently caress is wrong with them?
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May 20, 2017 11:53
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The most infuriating person is a third way social democrat who does not understand why social democratic parties are losing everywhere. They will not ever blame their problems on themselves, it's like talking to an extremely spoiled 6 year old kid.
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May 20, 2017 11:59
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i for one am glad germans from martin luther to our friend gaussian here today have had the correct attitude towards working class uprisings led by bolshevik jewish agitators https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Martin_Luther&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop#Return_to_Wittenberg_and_Peasants.27_War
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May 20, 2017 12:04
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Shibawanko posted:The Dutch coalition negotiations collapsed (VVD, CDA, D66, Greenleft) and some retarded third wayer wrote that it's time for Labour, which went from something like 30 to 11 seats, to join the negotiations because "if we can get Dijsselbloem on finance, surely we will bounce back in the next elections!" Do these people live in an alternate dimension? What the gently caress is wrong with them? Liberalism is a disease
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May 20, 2017 12:06
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icantfindaname posted:i for one am glad germans from martin luther to our friend gaussian here today have had the correct attitude towards working class uprisings led by bolshevik jewish agitators Sometimes with a little help from their Soviet friends 
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May 20, 2017 12:11
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GaussianCopula posted:Let me tell you about "la Terreur"
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May 20, 2017 12:43
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GaussianCopula posted:Let me tell you about "la Terreur" Do you always post with the intent to demonstrate just how much stupider you can get or is this purely coincidental? (more people got murdered in royalist repression across Europe at the same time, not even including the fact that the first republic was literally invaded from all sides)
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May 20, 2017 12:49
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I'd probably approve of a STASI-like apparatus that identifies and hunts down alt righters and racists using the internet and makes them lose their job or jails them, depending on how bad they are.
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May 20, 2017 13:00
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Fear of the guillotine will make them find ways to make "economically unsustainable" social and economic justice suddenly sustainable. Right? As far as basic needs (i.e. not luxury items) are concerned, we live in a post-scarcity world, but not in a post-scarcity economy, because scarcity is maintained by 1% people holding 99% money in off-shore tax haven corporate accounts. Either they figure out hoarding is bad and redistribute stuff they don't need, or their stuff will be redistributed for them when enough people are hungry and/or cold. It's happened before, there's no reason it wouldn't again, and it's in their interest that it doesn't turn violent. Shibawanko posted:I'd probably approve of a STASI-like apparatus that identifies and hunts down alt righters and racists using the internet and makes them lose their job or jails them, depending on how bad they are. 
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May 20, 2017 13:05
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Strong anti hate speech laws and limitations on free speech to protect a person's dignity are good and useful, the internet shouldn't be a refuge from that, so Shibawanko's idea is actually good.
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May 20, 2017 13:46
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depends on you feel about people just talking, because that's the next step after you go after individuals on the internet for opinions stasi was a not terribly pleasant system to live under
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May 20, 2017 14:15
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Majorian posted:I read it as a commentary on the fact that Germany's social safety net is still relatively robust. There's pretty much nothing that even an economic justice warrior like Sanders could do as president, that could put the U.S. on par with even a reduced European welfare state. Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:universal healthcare, free nationalized universities, paid maternity leave/vacation/sick days, public infrastructure spending, etc. are non-partisan mainstream policies around here and what we already have goes beyond what Bernie wanted to implement in the US.
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May 20, 2017 14:21
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Hambilderberglar posted:You're 100% not wrong about any of this, I was just curious about the actual program points and whether they bore that out. Admittedly my knowledge of the CDU's ideology is close to nonexistent, but they seem the kind of types to have ideological issues with tuition being free and infrastructure spending. You gotta consider that the CDU's/CSU's/FDP's intention with stuff like tuition/pharmacy/doctor fees was always to create a barrier to use, never to finance the service themselves with the money. The goal was to discourage people from going unnecessarily to the doctor, getting free medicine that they never intended to use, or, in case of universities, discouraging people from studying longer than they absolutely have to and keeping the lower class riff raff out. (Obviously none of that poo poo worked out in the end and was abolished (except pharmacy fees, which got weakened up but not completely abolished)). Ideologically, the CDU absolutely supports state funded universities and universal healthcare. I mean, state funded universities are even in the constitution. It's as German as it gets.
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May 20, 2017 14:58
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:You gotta consider that the CDU's/CSU's/FDP's intention with stuff like tuition/pharmacy/doctor fees was always to create a barrier to use, never to finance the service themselves with the money. The goal was to discourage people from going unnecessarily to the doctor, getting free medicine that they never intended to use, or, in case of universities, discouraging people from studying longer than they absolutely have to and keeping the lower class riff raff out. (Obviously none of that poo poo worked out in the end and was abolished (except pharmacy fees, which got weakened up but not completely abolished)). I feel like I should be skeptical of the idea that "even the European right wing is to the left of the Bern" since you can't really be even moderately left in the US and have anywhere to go but up.  The European right's got plenty of social services to gut over here and I bet they'd go for it given half the chance and a pliant or distracted electorate, especially given what I've seen in the past. But, again, if this hot take is borne out by reality I'm going to have an erection hard enough to cut glass, so I look forward to being wrong.
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May 20, 2017 16:12
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Phlegmish posted:Of course the far left and its 50,000 one-man parties are not a realistic threat to our society. I guess that dude is just old and remembers when it was different. Are you really this naive or just really stupid?
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May 20, 2017 16:20
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Shibawanko posted:The Dutch coalition negotiations collapsed (VVD, CDA, D66, Greenleft) and some retarded third wayer wrote that it's time for Labour, which went from something like 30 to 11 seats, to join the negotiations because "if we can get Dijsselbloem on finance, surely we will bounce back in the next elections!" Do these people live in an alternate dimension? What the gently caress is wrong with them? They spent an awfully long time negotiating that VVD, CDA, D66 and Green Left coalition which was pretty much doomed from the start. Did anyone seriously believe it had any chance of succeeding? I understand Rutte being desparate to avoid a minority coalition situation but it was obvious from the start that that's where he's heading. What I'm saying is is that there's a lot of delusion going around.
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May 20, 2017 16:29
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Hambilderberglar posted:"Still relatively robust" may be true for all European countries when comparing themselves to the United States, but I still associate CDU/CSU with the church of austerity, privatization and rollback of public services. I wonder if an ideal future as seen by the CDU will end up being that much better than an ideal future as seen by Bernie? (insert horseshoe theory/perhaps the answer is in the middle joke) As far as I can tell, the CDU position is more like "You can only have the level of public service spending that is consistent with a primary budget balance of exactly zero, and not a penny more". Maybe you'll get to adjust a bit for the state of the economic cycle, but that's only if you're lucky or, grudgingly, if you're France .
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May 20, 2017 16:29
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Hambilderberglar posted:I feel like I should be skeptical of the idea that "even the European right wing is to the left of the Bern" since you can't really be even moderately left in the US and have anywhere to go but up. I'm not sure what kind of evidence you expect there to be for Merkel being a secret libertarian? A secret diary? A brain scan?
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May 20, 2017 17:00
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:I'm not sure what kind of evidence you expect there to be for Merkel being a secret libertarian? A secret diary? A brain scan? It turns out all of Merkels pantsuits had a gold fringe.Freeman of the land style.
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May 20, 2017 17:15
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GaussianCopula posted:To be fair, Melenchon supported the Venezuelan left-wing government which is actually killing people so, uhm, maybe don't elect radical left-wing parties who will have to use force to enforce their policies? The American right-wing government is actually killing people too.
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May 20, 2017 17:42
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Orange Devil posted:Are you really this naive or just really stupid?
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May 20, 2017 17:52
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:You gotta consider that the CDU's/CSU's/FDP's intention with stuff like tuition/pharmacy/doctor fees was always to create a barrier to use, never to finance the service themselves with the money. The "Praxisgebühr" was introduced by SPD and Greens and abolished by an FDP minister.
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May 21, 2017 06:20
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Reducing moral hazards is a good idea, especially when it comes to healthcare.
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May 21, 2017 07:38
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Wild Horses posted:depends on you feel about people just talking, because that's the next step after you go after individuals on the internet for opinions Free speech laws interpreted too loosely lead to poo poo like Japan where you have right wing gangs in the street with megaphones shouting how much they hate Chinese people. Free speech has become a hollow principle for absolute scum to hide behind. Free speech should be interpreted as free speech in good faith, not just anything that comes out of your mouth. Intelligence agencies use the internet all the time to identify possible radical Islamists, why not apply the same standards to white racists then? They might have caught Breivik in time.
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May 21, 2017 08:37
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