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Artisanal rockets reminded me of a bad-habit-encouraging mod idea I had: personal speed modules.
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May 20, 2017 06:48
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Toast Museum posted:Artisanal rockets reminded me of a bad-habit-encouraging mod idea I had: personal speed modules. Already exists, in a sense https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Klonan/Crafting_Speed_Research
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May 20, 2017 06:52
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I think some people write artisinal for the same reason some people avoid saying Your Anus when referring to the gas giant: no butt stuff. E: your anus may be a gas giant but Uranus isn't. Oops.
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May 20, 2017 07:48
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I can't figure out which modules to put where. I had speed modules in my circuit assemblers but that seemed silly. I have speed in my furnaces too. When am I supposed to use productivity? I don't give a poo poo about pollution right now.
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May 20, 2017 10:45
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GotLag posted:I've never heard anyone use either of those. I always roll my eyes when someone says something like that. I've heard both of them plenty of times. Isn't it funny how languages vary depending on where you are and who you talk to? MrYenko posted:All of that aside, Artisinal Hand-Crafted Rocket is a hilarious achievement name, and I hope it gets included with somewhat saner prerequisites. Yeah, I'd be down for it if it was something you could feasibly do in a few hours, on top of all the regular stuff you do when playing of course.
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May 20, 2017 10:45
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Dirk Pitt posted:I can't figure out which modules to put where. I had speed modules in my circuit assemblers but that seemed silly. I have speed in my furnaces too. When am I supposed to use productivity? I don't give a poo poo about pollution right now. Use productivity basically everywhere that you can. Speed modules alone are more expensive than just building more factories and are best used in beacons to decrease the number of modules you have to build to get all of your production using productivity.
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May 20, 2017 10:52
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Dirk Pitt posted:I can't figure out which modules to put where. I had speed modules in my circuit assemblers but that seemed silly. I have speed in my furnaces too. When am I supposed to use productivity? I don't give a poo poo about pollution right now.
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May 20, 2017 10:54
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Counterpoint: Use productivity in high-resource-cost things like high-tier science bottles to maximize their effectiveness. Use speed in places where you need more raw throughput but don't have space to add more machines. Early on with modules, you can also do stuff like 3-production-1-speed to get the most out of your production modules while you don't yet have enough to satisfy demand with 4-production-module assemblers.
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May 20, 2017 11:02
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Collateral Damage posted:Use speed modules in slow machines like furnaces and science assemblers. Use productivity in fast machines. Use productivity in science assemblers and labs. They make the best use of the increased productivity. Don't put speed modules in slow machines, build more of them. The best things to put productivity modules in are the thing with the highest (raw resource cost)/(crafting time). Essentially, a productivity module generates a certain amount of free ore per second depending on where you put it, and you want to put it in the places that give you the most free ore.
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May 20, 2017 11:02
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So does that mean don't put productivity in circuit machines? Just speed plus speed beacons?
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May 20, 2017 11:56
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Why not both?
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May 20, 2017 12:01
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GenericOverusedName posted:Why not both? That's what I've switched to. Productivity in level three assemblers and speed in beacons. Seems to work ok and I have a nice new blueprint to add more in the future
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May 20, 2017 12:04
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Impermanent posted:is there a mod that adds a chance for products to come out malformed? It'd be interesting to automate QA. That'd be a good one. Or make R&D probabilistic - all you know about a tech is the packs required and the level of difficulty, time to complete is random. It'd drive me mad! 
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May 20, 2017 12:26
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Dirk Pitt posted:So does that mean don't put productivity in circuit machines? Just speed plus speed beacons? Blue and Green circuit machines are great to put productivity in. They have some of the highest resource/second you can get outside of high end science. This is what I've been using for reference: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?t=5705 Though, I think the formula used here overvalues oil, but that doesn't change much. It's also naively assuming that you're running the assemblers full time, which is simply not the case for some things like fuel cells and military science, which really tanks those in terms of module utilization. e: If you're at the point where you have enough productivity modules to put them in everything, then ignore all this and do that.
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May 20, 2017 12:34
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Speed modules make up for lack of machines. Production modules make up for lack of resources. Efficiency modules make up for lack of power. Use whichever of those three things would be hardest to improve otherwise in that particular area.
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May 20, 2017 14:56
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Nuclear has rendered efficiency modules completely obsolete, hasn't it?
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May 20, 2017 15:03
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Maybe, but it may still be worth it to use them in large mining outposts to reduce biter attacks. Don't forget, they reduce pollution too
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May 20, 2017 15:16
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There's no such thing as a lack of power at the moment, so efficiency is more for one weird tricks to redirect biter attacks. Assembler 3s are cheaper than an Assembler 2 with a couple speed module 2s to get near the same throughput so there's no such thing as a lack of assemblers. And more assembler 3s vs moduling is less incremental materials per throughput. Most people module because they have a lot of modules burning a hole in their pocket which is fine but not maximized. The only real maximization scheme anyone's agreed on is 3prod/1speed without beacons, or 4 prod with beacon speeds. Doled out based on the priority list in that Factorio thread that was linked with the caveat that anything less of a win than green circuits is probably going to take more time to pay off the material cost than you are planning on playing that map, ie its better to use those modules elsewhere or to have never made the modules at all.
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May 20, 2017 15:26
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Antti posted:Nuclear has rendered efficiency modules completely obsolete, hasn't it? I'd say it's somewhat the opposite. It's always cheaper to build zero-upkeep solar panels than efficiency modules, so they never actually pay for themselves materially that way. With nuclear, there actually is a point where they pay for themselves, but I imagine it's very far off in the future. Taking UPS into account, solar is by far the best power generation method, but efficiency modules could be used in one-off on-demand assemblers to slightly decrease the number of solar panels required (and thus the total entity count). But, I'm sure the effect is very minor, and probably not worth thinking about.
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May 20, 2017 15:37
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If you're looking for a fun game similar to factorio, Production Line is pretty good.
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May 20, 2017 15:41
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Antti posted:Nuclear has rendered efficiency modules completely obsolete, hasn't it? They were already pretty obsolete, really. Early on, before you'd even get modules, they might have had a use but by the time you're producing lots and lots of modules you probably can build a gigantic field of solar panels. Nuclear is similar, really; if you have the resources to mass produce modules you have the resources to build a nuclear plant. Really productivity are the best modules; if you aren't producing enough stuff you can just build more factories but productivity literally gives you free stuff. The big exception is pumpjacks. Just stuff those full of speed. Generally speaking other stuff you cram full of productivity then beacon for speed.
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May 20, 2017 20:05
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I'm probably way off, but pumpjacks are already pretty fast, especially when you set up speed beacons around them. Throwing some productivity in the pumpjacks themselves doesn't seem like a bad idea since they produce every second to begin with.
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May 20, 2017 20:10
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Efficiency modules serve the purpose of keeping the bugs peaceful, judging by the difference in bug activity some of you guys seem to be experiencing compared to mine.
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May 20, 2017 20:16
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Speed helps increase what a spent well trickles since it increases the tick frequency so every bit is a net increase since there's a floor on well production. I forgot about that. Productivity is silly because its a raw material, gonna take forever to justify. So the 3 use cases are speed in pumpjacks, productivity in expensive products augmented with at least one speed, and efficiency if you are doing miner pollution tricks.
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May 20, 2017 20:18
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On the occasions that I've had trouble with bugs knocking down my power pylons, I've considered running my mining/drilling outposts entirely on solar power, and efficiency modules would make that much more viable, so there's that too
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May 20, 2017 20:20
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Chev posted:Efficiency modules serve the purpose of keeping the bugs peaceful, judging by the difference in bug activity some of you guys seem to be experiencing compared to mine. The best way to achieve peace is through liberal application of nukes.
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May 20, 2017 20:20
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Onean posted:I'm probably way off, but pumpjacks are already pretty fast, especially when you set up speed beacons around them. Throwing some productivity in the pumpjacks themselves doesn't seem like a bad idea since they produce every second to begin with. It's for when they run out. They never run completely dry and there's a minimum amount of oil they can produce per cycle. Speed increases their cycle rate which is a direct production increase.
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May 20, 2017 20:22
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Filthy Monkey posted:The best way to achieve peace is through liberal application of nukes. For expansion, yes, but nukes aren't a good defense option (for now) and apparently thanks to low pollution I only need sparse defenses to keep the bugs away. No tons of walls or belt tricks to keep behemoths at bay (through I guess uranium ammo would help now?).
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May 20, 2017 20:27
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Chev posted:For expansion, yes, but nukes aren't a good defense option (for now) and apparently thanks to low pollution I only need sparse defenses to keep the bugs away. No tons of walls or belt tricks to keep behemoths at bay (through I guess uranium ammo would help now?). Uranium bullets do make quick work of like anything. Fire turrets are also really, really good defensive weapons.
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May 20, 2017 21:01
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Onean posted:I'm probably way off, but pumpjacks are already pretty fast, especially when you set up speed beacons around them. Throwing some productivity in the pumpjacks themselves doesn't seem like a bad idea since they produce every second to begin with. its most efficient to use productivities while their production is still high, so you get the highest % of production boost. Once they've leveled off to whatever their minimum output is then you swap in speeds and add a few beacons where they fit, since the well will produce X oil per cycle till infinity so speeding up cycles is the most efficient. zedprime posted:Productivity is silly because its a raw material, gonna take forever to justify. Yeah kinda, but you should be producing tons of productivity 3's anyway and you end up cycling them to other things eventually. At some point all the assembers and furnaces I have are nothing but productivity 3's so I just start throwing them into drills. M_Gargantua fucked around with this message at 22:40 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 22:37
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With the new very generous oil patches and 2/s minimum rate, speed beacons and even modules in pumpjacks are a thing of the past.
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May 20, 2017 23:30
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M_Gargantua posted:Yeah kinda, but you should be producing tons of productivity 3's anyway and you end up cycling them to other things eventually.
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May 21, 2017 00:09
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zedprime posted:You can also just stop making prod 3s you don't need and make things you do need. I know this thread likes overkill but I can't understand why should is the word for making extra (super expensive) prod 3s into a chest just because, when you can use those raw materials for research or rockets or another bottomless skinner box pit that feeds back instead of just being there just in case.
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May 21, 2017 00:35
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seravid posted:With the new very generous oil patches and 2/s minimum rate, speed beacons and even modules in pumpjacks are a thing of the past. They used to bottom out at 0.2/s right? The new version multiplied all numbers by 10 for fluids.
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May 21, 2017 00:39
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RyokoTK posted:They used to bottom out at 0.2/s right? The new version multiplied all numbers by 10 for fluids. They used to bottom out at 0.1, so they basically doubled the minimum.
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May 21, 2017 00:49
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pumpinglemma posted:If you're trying for a 1000 science per minute base without productivity modules, you'll need about 4350 iron ore per second - that's 107 fully compressed blue belts. With productivity modules, that drops to 1670 per second (about 42 blue belts). And that's just the iron. Relative to that, level 3 modules are really loving cheap, especially if you use speed beacons well so you can get away with fewer of them.
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May 21, 2017 01:12
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vOv posted:They used to bottom out at 0.1, so they basically doubled the minimum. Doesn't seem like much, but it adds up. With the new oil fields, however, even keeping dead ones running - let alone speed boosting them - might be unneeded. Just consider oil like iron or copper: build a new outpost when needed. Haven't done the math on this yet, though, it's just how it seems at this time. pumpinglemma posted:If you're trying for a 1000 science per minute base without productivity modules, you'll need about 4350 iron ore per second - that's 107 fully compressed blue belts. With productivity modules, that drops to 1670 per second (about 42 blue belts). And that's just the iron. Relative to that, level 3 modules are really loving cheap, especially if you use speed beacons well so you can get away with fewer of them. Not your point, but I'm working towards 1k science a minute and I'm not getting these numbers (the 1670 one). Did you account for 20% production on furnaces and labs?
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May 21, 2017 01:58
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Also, don't pumpjacks get the same production bonus from research that miners get too? That starts to add up after a while.
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May 21, 2017 02:10
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Alkydere posted:Also, don't pumpjacks get the same production bonus from research that miners get too? That starts to add up after a while. Since the previous version: 1) Oil has twice as high a floor per spot 2) Oil comes in more spots per patch 3) The most important oil recipe (plastic) takes 25% less petroleum gas. 4) Mining productivity research benefits pumpjacks 5) Oil refineries and chemical labs can have an extra module slot (ie productivity) All combined, oil is much more available than it used to be -- especially late game.
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May 21, 2017 06:47
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Oh yeah, plus you can make oil out of coal now if you need to.
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May 21, 2017 06:48
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