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Groovelord Neato posted:the unknown is always creepier than the known. Trying to put the genie back in the bottle and pretend like you've never seen a Xenomorph before is definitely not creepy.
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May 20, 2017 21:28
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You guys are putting a lot of emphasis on David creating the xenomorph form even though we've seen Deacons evolve spontaneously in Prometheus. I also don't really like the unnecessary tie-in with David planting the eggs on the derelict, but it really doesn't demystify the xenomorphs that much, the black goo and its derivative horrors could still be spread about the galaxy, particularly if it wasn't the engineers themselves who created it.
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May 20, 2017 21:28
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i kinda wanna see how ridley explains the eggs being on the derelict because it'll at least be good for a laugh.HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Trying to put the genie back in the bottle and pretend like you've never seen a Xenomorph before is definitely not creepy. seeing them and knowing their origin are very different things.
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May 20, 2017 21:30
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CelticPredator posted:The most evil being in the universe is a thing we humans created. That's creepier to me than Xenomorphs being spread all over the place. I think we'll have to agree to disagree, but that's the great thing about horror anyway - different stuff is scary for different people. Also I never saw Aliens as "evil", but that's kinda another discussion.
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May 20, 2017 21:33
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Groovelord Neato posted:seeing them and knowing their origin are very different things. The great thing is that origin of the Xenomorphs is just a humorous aside in this movie. There's a scene, for example, where fake Ripley discovers that H.R. Giger's grand vision is roughly the same as an android's notebook scribblings of what sex must be like.
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May 20, 2017 21:33
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I think it's weird that the derelict/space jockey being thousands of years old is taken as fact based on the use of the word "fossilized" by some stupid space trucking hick. Dallas wasn't a scientist, how could he possibly have been able to date the jockey? For all he knows, that's the jockeys natural state.
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May 20, 2017 21:33
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The great thing is that origin of the Xenomorphs is just a humorous aside in this movie. that isn't great. it also makes no sense. Plavski posted:I think it's weird that the derelict/space jockey being thousands of years old is taken as fact based on the use of the word "fossilized" by some stupid space trucking hick. Dallas wasn't a scientist, how could he possibly have been able to date the jockey? For all he knows, that's the jockeys natural state. looked pretty fossilized to me. and i love dinosaurs.
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May 20, 2017 21:34
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I mean, look at the Engineers in this film. They looked pretty crispy, despite only being there for 10 years.
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May 20, 2017 21:34
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Groovelord Neato posted:that isn't great. it also makes no sense. It's both great and makes perfect sense. Checkmate
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May 20, 2017 21:37
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The only scientist in Alien was an android who was a huge liar. Nothing anybody says in that movie is reliable space science or whatever.
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May 20, 2017 21:37
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Plavski posted:I think it's weird that the derelict/space jockey being thousands of years old is taken as fact based on the use of the word "fossilized" by some stupid space trucking hick. Dallas wasn't a scientist, how could he possibly have been able to date the jockey? For all he knows, that's the jockeys natural state. For what it's worth, it was intentionally designed to look old, and the film's script outright calls it fossilized. I don't mean Dallas' dialogue, I mean the script's description of the Space Jockey prop. Ridley Scott even acknowledged the Derelict's age in interviews when Prometheus came out. Could a future movie make it so David crashes the Derelict literally days before 'Alien' takes place? Sure. But let's not pretend like it's not a massive retcon to do so.
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May 20, 2017 21:37
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's both great and makes perfect sense. Checkmate it's also not an aside that seemed to be a fairly important scene. the ship in alien is very very old. it doesn't make sense. stop. Xenomrph posted:For what it's worth, it was intentionally designed to look old, and the film's script outright calls it fossilized. I don't mean Dallas' dialogue, I mean the script's description of the Space Jockey prop. Ridley Scott even acknowledged the Derelict's age in interviews when Prometheus came out. forget it xeno, it's a chinatown.
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May 20, 2017 21:37
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's also not an aside that seemed to be a fairly important scene. It's the climax of the film but nowhere near the most important scene in the film.
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May 20, 2017 21:39
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Xenomrph posted:For what it's worth, it was intentionally designed to look old, and the film's script outright calls it fossilized. I don't mean Dallas' dialogue, I mean the script's description of the Space Jockey prop. Ridley Scott even acknowledged the Derelict's age in interviews when Prometheus came out. Well the only thing in the film itself is that word - the script scene descriptions and Ridley's comments aren't "canon". And Ridley has said so many contradictory things over the years that to say one thing or the other based on him is madness.
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May 20, 2017 21:40
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is this like where people defend yoda not being obi wan's master in the prequels despite the fact they even say so in the original trilogy with "well they didn't literally say that he wasn't training him in a room full of other younglings and for some reason they're using that obviously improvised training using the helmet from the millennium falcon".
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May 20, 2017 21:42
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Groovelord Neato posted:is this like where people defend yoda not being obi wan's master in the prequels despite the fact they even say so in the original trilogy with "well they didn't literally say that he wasn't training him in a room full of other younglings and for some reason they're using that obviously improvised training using the helmet from the millennium falcon". Yes, in the sense that it doesn't matter at all.
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May 20, 2017 21:42
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i like consistency myself.
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May 20, 2017 21:43
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An Engineer tracks the colony ship to its destination, a place that will be full of Xenos thanks to David. It fills up its cargo with eggs and goes to LV-whatever.
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May 20, 2017 21:43
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Xenomrph posted:Because if David creates them, it reduces their presence in the universe down to like 2 planets. Instead of being an unimaginably old, unknowable Lovecraftian cosmic horror that could be lurking in the dark anywhere in the void of space, there's now a finite number of them and anyone could conceivably throw them together given the proper resources and time. Its like how the prequels added the completely unnecessary backstory to Darth Vader, taking him from an intimidating force of evil to a whiny emo kid in a CPAP.
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May 20, 2017 21:44
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sean10mm posted:An Engineer tracks the colony ship to its destination, a place that will be full of Xenos thanks to David. It fills up its cargo with eggs and goes to LV-whatever. the jockey being david makes the most logical sense in the way that ridley is supposed to be wanting to connect prom to alien directly
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May 20, 2017 21:45
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Groovelord Neato posted:i like consistency myself. I like consistency as well but plot timelines are uninteresting.
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May 20, 2017 21:46
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The Xeno is less special... because it's merely a branch of a much bigger and older cosmic horror tree now. It's just the tip of the iceberg.
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May 20, 2017 21:48
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Dienes posted:Its like how the prequels added the completely unnecessary backstory to Darth Vader, taking him from an intimidating force of evil to a whiny emo kid in a CPAP. my feeling as well. i do like the david stuff - covenant is not a good movie but the parts with him are mostly great and wish they had been explored in their own thing.
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May 20, 2017 21:49
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sean10mm posted:The Xeno is less special... because it's merely a branch of a much bigger and older cosmic horror tree now. It's just the tip of the iceberg. The Xeno became less special when it got shot by a teenage pizza boy in the middle of Colorado.
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May 20, 2017 21:53
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Plavski posted:the jockey being david makes the most logical sense in the way that ridley is supposed to be wanting to connect prom to alien directly It would make David the monument to Ozymandias in the poem basically.
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May 20, 2017 21:54
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Xenomrph posted:For what it's worth, it was intentionally designed to look old, and the film's script outright calls it fossilized. I don't mean Dallas' dialogue, I mean the script's description of the Space Jockey prop. Ridley Scott even acknowledged the Derelict's age in interviews when Prometheus came out. People are obsessed with the idea that Prometheus/Covenant are meant to explain things from the other movies. Actually, all we really know is that David figured out how to make aliens. The presumption here is now that they must explain how David got aboard another ship and laid like 10,000 eggs. Between the two movies we've only really established that aliens work roughly like 40k genestealers, where what they look like depends on how many generations in they are, and there's more than one way to make one. Covenant adds "No two are identical, especially at early generations." The aliens that pop out of David's eggs in fact don't look precisely like other aliens, though they are pretty close. We don't need a scene depicting how the derelict happens, because we already essentially know, and it doesn't require David on the grassy knoll to work.
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May 20, 2017 21:55
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Alien Covenant: Plavski posted:the jockey being david makes the most logical sense in the way that ridley is supposed to be wanting to connect prom to alien directly but the jockey in Alien is chestbursted ("Bones are bent outward, like he exploded from inside"). do the facehuggers/aliens even attack synthetics? (besides Bishop in Aliens, but that was the more intelligent queen anyway). the neomorph in Covenant didn't seem too interested in attacking him. (this is where Xenomrph comes in and tells me which comics and novels had synthetics getting chest bursted).
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May 20, 2017 21:57
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dont even fink about it posted:People are obsessed with the idea that Prometheus/Covenant are meant to explain things from the other movies. Actually, all we really know is that David figured out how to make aliens. The presumption here is now that they must explain how David got aboard another ship and laid like 10,000 eggs. Good point. His chestburster was definitely NOT like the one in Alien, for instance.
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May 20, 2017 21:59
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Samuel L. ACKSYN posted:Alien Covenant: well we know that the xenos in covenant are not the final ones we see in alien - they're all bio and not mechanical. there's a chain of logic that says eventually the aliens will have to merge with david's androidness and emerge as biomechanical. one line of plot that could happen is that david finally realises that to make the perfect weapon he must join with it - he voluntarily takes a modified facehugger, it bursts out of him as a new queen and lays all those eggs. now there are the final bio-mechanical aliens we know and love, david's perfect creatures. the irony being that he won't be "alive" to see them. but as he says, sometimes to create you must destroy.
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May 20, 2017 22:01
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dont even fink about it posted:People are obsessed with the idea that Prometheus/Covenant are meant to explain things from the other movies. Actually, all we really know is that David figured out how to make aliens. The presumption here is now that they must explain how David got aboard another ship and laid like 10,000 eggs. Aliens have always been unique, see alien 3.
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May 20, 2017 22:04
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I think it's a testament to Danny McBride as a dramatic actor that even though his character was underwritten he's still a compelling presence in the movie.
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May 20, 2017 22:08
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DrVenkman posted:I think it's a testament to Danny McBride as a dramatic actor that even though his character was underwritten he's still a compelling presence in the movie. He owns.
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May 20, 2017 22:08
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Throwing this out here to all the "David didn't neccesarily make the alien" people, but it's really loving clear that's the intention of the movie. Like, come on, I'm a Star Wars fan: this reeks of post PM mitachloriam denial.
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May 20, 2017 22:10
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I wish people would watch Jody Hill's films/shows more. He's really excellent in those, far better than he was in Covenant. But he had less to work with there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8QgN5iavRk
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May 20, 2017 22:10
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Samuel L. ACKSYN posted:Alien Covenant: Nope, Aliens are consistently uninterested in synthetics in the EU (unless they're hostile, or in the way). There's even a comic series that shows a research station using a workforce of synthetics to freely mingle among an Alien hive. It's a pretty neat story that looks at the ramifications of treating synthetics as second-class citizens, Prometheus touches on some similar ideas. Covok posted:Throwing this out here to all the "David didn't neccesarily make the alien" people, but it's really loving clear that's the intention of the movie. Like, come on, I'm a Star Wars fan: this reeks of post PM mitachloriam denial. On the same coin, it's really loving clear that the Derelict and Space Jockey are intended to be ancient. 
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May 20, 2017 22:12
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Covok posted:Throwing this out here to all the "David didn't neccesarily make the alien" people, but it's really loving clear that's the intention of the movie. Like, come on, I'm a Star Wars fan: this reeks of post PM mitachloriam denial. It didn't explain what those plants where? Those plants made aliens cause of black goo and a mad robot? He might of found the eggs also. How did he make the eggs without a queen? Added a poop function?
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May 20, 2017 22:12
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Tenzarin posted:It didn't explain what those plants where? Those plants made aliens cause of black goo and a mad robot? He might of found the eggs also. How did he make the eggs without a queen? Added a poop function? you don't need queens to make eggs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6dSIMFo7iU
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May 20, 2017 22:14
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Tenzarin posted:It didn't explain what those planets where? Those plants made aliens cause of black goo and a mad robot? He might of found the eggs also. He pretty much explictly says he created those eggs and that the spores were a previous attempt. This isn't obsfucated in any capacity: he literally says he made them.
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May 20, 2017 22:14
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Covok posted:Throwing this out here to all the "David didn't neccesarily make the alien" people, but it's really loving clear that's the intention of the movie. That's not actually the intention of the movie.
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May 20, 2017 22:15
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Tenzarin posted:How did he make the eggs without a queen? Added a poop function? One word:bio-enigneering.
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May 20, 2017 22:16
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