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Uncle Boogeyman posted:People are really reading into the very, very little we've seen of Pennywise. I have minor reservations, but I think it looks great too. I think that's got way more to do with what the modern conception of what a clown is. It's a genie you can't put back in the bottle, no one on earth thinks a clown is anything other than a demon from hell.
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May 20, 2017 20:04
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:People are really reading into the very, very little we've seen of Pennywise. I have minor reservations, but I think it looks great too. That's the way of things. Goons see a little bit and then flip out saying it's trash or the greatest thing ever. It's hilarious seeing it over in Games because if you read the Resident Evil thread it goes from people 100% sure the game is trash and just an Amnesia/Outlast clone to universal praise because it's actually a good and fun game.
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May 20, 2017 20:10
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In the book Pennywise's suit was described as being silver with orange pom-pom buttons, which sounds almost spacesuit-like. Given how much of It's forms are explicitly said to be people's minds struggling to comprehend his appearance or being manipulated by subconscious suggestion him being a clown could just be how people interpret his appearance as Pennywise since a clown is the closest comparison they can make.HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I think that's got way more to do with what the modern conception of what a clown is. It's a genie you can't put back in the bottle, no one on earth thinks a clown is anything other than a demon from hell. Barnum and Bailey's circus is actually shutting down this year because of low attendance, at this point evil ironic scary clowns are the only exposure the last generation has ever had. Aside from maybe, I dunno, the gay uncle on Modern Family? The last time I remember seeing clowns as unironic entertainment for children was The Big Comfy Couch on PBS in the 90s, since then even when children's performers have painted faces and perform shows they never actually self-identity as clowns.
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May 20, 2017 20:22
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I saw Poltergeist at a pretty young age and had that exact loving clown doll. That's what made me scared of clowns. Then later IT.
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May 20, 2017 20:28
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Len posted:That's the way of things. Goons see a little bit and then flip out saying it's trash or the greatest thing ever. It's hilarious seeing it over in Games because if you read the Resident Evil thread it goes from people 100% sure the game is trash and just an Amnesia/Outlast clone to universal praise because it's actually a good and fun game. The trailer(s) is the only thing we can base our opinions on and frankly it looks like poo poo for an IT movie. It would probably look ok for your run of the mill jump scare horror. Pennywise actor's too young, tries too hard, and the scene with him spinning out of the water screaming is just silly. Yes, the clown looks too evil, and blatantly so. In the book (and in the mini tv series to an extent) Pennywise looked "wrong" and creepy but not downright evil other than in a few scenes. That said the movie has a good director so hey let's hope I'm wrong here.
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May 20, 2017 20:28
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Tries too hard at what?
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May 20, 2017 20:29
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Tries too hard at what? at doing mean stares
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May 20, 2017 20:33
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The Kubrick Stare is basically a part of cinematic grammar at this point.
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May 20, 2017 20:36
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Nroo posted:The Kubrick Stare is basically a part of cinematic grammar at this point. When it's not overdone and obvious. The audience knows Pennywise is evil, does he really need to spin out of the water screaming or hide behind a balloon with the phoniest mean stare? Tim Curry's interpretation was playful and disturbing at the same time and he was the best element of the mini-series. At this point my hope is that they made it look more of a generic horror flick than it is to attract a broader audience.
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May 20, 2017 20:42
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Well see, the thing about that is, at no point does Tim Curry's Pennywise seem friendly and funny either. He's totally menacing from the jump.
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May 20, 2017 20:46
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Kawabata posted:The trailer(s) is the only thing we can base our opinions on and frankly it looks like poo poo for an IT movie. It would probably look ok for your run of the mill jump scare horror. Pennywise actor's too young, tries too hard, and the scene with him spinning out of the water screaming is just silly. So the what combined three minutes of scenes of the clown cut by the marketing department not the director is enough to confirm the movie is bad and It is a terrible try hard clown? Because that makes perfect sense. They don't have any reason to show Pennywise not looking evil because drat near everyone knows It as "the evil clown movie" (I've never met anyone irl who calls it a miniseries) so they're showing the evil clown
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May 20, 2017 20:47
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Len posted:They don't have any reason to show Pennywise not looking evil because drat near everyone knows It as "the evil clown movie" (I've never met anyone irl who calls it a miniseries) so they're showing the evil clown Like...the book and miniseries It are a big part of the reason many assume clowns are evil. Doing the whole "people have never heard of zombie movies in a zombie movie" thing doesn't make too much creative or practical sense.
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May 20, 2017 20:49
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Well see, the thing about that is, at no point does Tim Curry's Pennywise seem friendly and funny either. He's totally menacing from the jump. He is menacing and playful at the same time, not evil (even thought the audience knows he is). This version of Pennywise seems to scream "look at me I'm super evil and mean staring you hard" but again, I hope it's a marketing choice to attract more people. The fact that you know he's evil from the book and the 90s version doesn't mean Pennywise should be played or portrayed differently. The character is going to lose most of his charm otherwise.
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May 20, 2017 20:58
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If they shift the story forward to be set a few decades later than the book is, that pretense makes no sense whatsoever. No child in the 90's thought clowns were charming and funloving.
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May 20, 2017 21:04
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Why the 90s? I'm legitimately interested, was it something in pop culture that created this generational fear of clowns? I grew up before then and was never afraid of them, nor of adults dressed in big costumes like a theme park character. Though I did have some friends that were when we were younger. But it didn't seem like there was as much pervasive clown fear among kids to me in the 70s.
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May 20, 2017 21:16
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Because the movie IIRC now takes place in the 90's and not the 60's since the adult portion takes place in the present day.
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May 20, 2017 21:18
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Kawabata posted:He is menacing and playful at the same time, not evil (even thought the audience knows he is). This version of Pennywise seems to scream "look at me I'm super evil and mean staring you hard" but again, I hope it's a marketing choice to attract more people. Every single time he appears in the book it hits you over the head with how evil he is. After he mercs Georgie in the opening scene there's no need for any pretenses in the rest of the film. And again: this is all from footage of trailers for The Evil Clown Movie so they're going to show an Evil Clown.
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May 20, 2017 21:20
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:What looks bad about the IT trailers? I've been blown away by them and I have barely the slightest interest in the project as it is. Nroo posted:Because the evil clown looks too evil. "Not My Pennywise" is what it comes down to. People make the mistake of thinking he always looked like Bozo or Ronald McDonald but if you read the book that's not the case at all. It'd be a mistake anyway to to try and re-up what Curry did since he was for the most part the only thing really worth watching in the miniseries.
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May 20, 2017 21:25
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Nroo posted:Every single time he appears in the book it hits you over the head with how evil he is. After he mercs Georgie in the opening scene there's no need for any pretenses in the rest of the film. The character doesn't work at all if you portray him that way. This is not the kind of monster that you need to immediately avoid because it will kill you on spot. Pennywise torments the kids but doesn't try to physically harm them most of the times. Yes, the book makes it clear that he's evil but it's the kind of lingering evil that King does best and Curry portrayed perfectly. BiggerBoat posted:"Not My Pennywise" is what it comes down to. Oh it's definitely not my Pennywise so far but maybe younger audiences will like him. Why do you say book Pennywise doesn't remind you of Bozo at all? Kawabata fucked around with this message at 21:38 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 21:36
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Kawabata posted:The character doesn't work at all if you portray him that way. This is not the kind of monster that you need to immediately avoid because it will kill you on spot. Pennywise torments the kids but doesn't try to physically harm them most of the times. Yes, the book makes it clear that he's evil but it's the kind of lingering evil that King does best and Curry portrayed perfectly. This argument came up before in the King thread during a time when I was actively re-reading the book. I posted numerous excerpts describing Pennywise that only tangentially resemble Bozo. The traditional clown is just one of several appearances he takes and it changes constantly. I think Curry's iconic take on the character has cemented the visuals in people's minds to the point where they mis-remember the actual narrative descriptions in the book.
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May 20, 2017 21:54
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Because the movie IIRC now takes place in the 90's and not the 60's since the adult portion takes place in the present day. What I meant was, why were so many kids in the 90s afraid of clowns?
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May 20, 2017 22:19
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MrMojok posted:What I meant was, why were so many kids in the 90s afraid of clowns? Oh. Cause the only depictions of clowns in popular culture by that point are either clowns as scary and creepy, Ronald McDonald, or Krusty.
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May 20, 2017 22:21
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I grew up in the 90s. We went to the circus a few times and there were clowns. I think birthday clowns were still around but they were a dying breed. We weren't actively scared of them but we didn't get the appeal either. If you asked me to choose between funny and scary, I'd have said scary. They fell into the same camp as the dudes in Chuck E. Cheese costumes. I'm reading the book for the first time atm, just got to Mike's bird. So far Pennywise has never once been portrayed as charming or playful, fwiw. Georgie mistrusts him but wants his boat and smells circus smells, one of the homophobic murderers glimpses him under a bridge eating the victim, and then Ben sees him looking like a dried up corpse clown and aping Karloff's Mummy. He's very obviously evil, the only difference is movie Pennywise is pure evil clown and not the fear shapeshifter from the book. The only time he's not spooky is seen from a distance, and I'm confident this Pennywise could be mistaken for a circus clown from a distance.
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May 20, 2017 22:40
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Oh. Cause the only depictions of clowns in popular culture by that point are either clowns as scary and creepy, Ronald McDonald, or Krusty. Not that I have any sort of authoritative understanding but a lot of stuff from that time period like Married With Children/Simpsons/(It)/etc. seemed like it was kind of built around reinterpreting the stuff the creators watched as kids with a greater amount of cynicism & clowns got the real harsh end of the stick.
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May 20, 2017 22:42
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Let's face it, some things that used to be considered Americana are culturally remote now or have different connotations, like smoking in restaurants.
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May 20, 2017 22:47
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I watched Salesman (1969) recently & it was a very strong illustration of that.
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May 20, 2017 22:52
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The book does say that IT takes the form of Pennywise to lure in children, because "what child doesn't love a clown", for whatever that's worth. As far as his look goes, here's the book. There was a clown in the stormdrain. The light was far from good, but it was good enough so that George Denbrough was sure of what he was seeing. It was a clown, like in the circus or on TV. In fact he looked like a cross between Bozo and Clarabell, who talked by honking his (or was it her?-George Denbrough was never really sure of the gender) horn on Howdy Doody Saturday mornings-Buffalo Bob was just about the only one who could understand Clarabell, and that always cracked Georgie up. The face of the clown in the stormdrain was white, there were funny tufts of red hair on either side of his bald head, there was a big clown-smile painted over his mouth. If George would have been inhabiting a later year, he would have surely thought of Ronald McDonald before Bozo or Clarabell. [...] He was wearing a baggy silk suit with great big orange buttons. A bright tie, electric-blue, flopped down his front, and on his hands were big white gloves, like the kind Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck always wore. It later says the suit is silver, I think in the first encounter with Ben. MrMojok posted:What I meant was, why were so many kids in the 90s afraid of clowns? I don't think it was any more than it was the 80's. You can thank Gacy for that, and the subsequent horror films that used clown imagery for creepy effect. But the miniseries was only 1990, and was a huge TV event and really re-cemented the idea for late gen x/millennials. It's been surprisingly enduring, and I'm sure the new adaptation will just further that. I know someone who used to be a professional birthday clown (she's in her 60s now), and she told me that the success of the miniseries was like the Great Depression for professional clowns.
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May 20, 2017 23:01
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Origami Dali posted:The book does say that IT takes the form of Pennywise to lure in children, because "what child doesn't love a clown", for whatever that's worth. Huh, so he does look like Bozo, and he does behave like a clown (sometimes) to attract children, which is as I remembered him in the book. Curry's Pennywise immediately comes to mind, tufts of red hair, baggy suit and everything. I'm confused now.
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May 20, 2017 23:26
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To be fair, Clarabell is more terrifying than either incarnation of Pennywise.
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May 20, 2017 23:29
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This new Pennywise fits that description pretty well. And the trailers show they're doing the opening scene where he tries to lure Georgie into the sewer. What's so confusing?
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May 20, 2017 23:32
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Nroo posted:This new Pennywise fits that description pretty well. And the trailers show they're doing the opening scene where he tries to lure Georgie into the sewer. What's so confusing? The trailers aren't showing Scary Clown Movie as Happy Clown Movie With A Twist it sounds like
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May 20, 2017 23:40
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Nroo posted:This new Pennywise fits that description pretty well. And the trailers show they're doing the opening scene where he tries to lure Georgie into the sewer. What's so confusing? What's confusing is that it's either "you mis-remember the book because Curry's interpretation replaced your memory of it: this new, darker IT is actually more faithful to the material" or "King literally says Pennywise looked like Bozo, down to tufts of red hair, orange buttons and baggy pants: this new IT is trying to do something different". It can't be both. Not that there's anything wrong with a new approach if it works, mind you.
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May 20, 2017 23:53
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Kawabata posted:What's confusing is that it's either "you mis-remember the book because Curry's interpretation replaced your memory of it: this new, darker IT is actually more faithful to the material" or "King literally says Pennywise looked like Bozo, down to tufts of red hair, orange buttons and baggy pants: this new IT is trying to do something different". It can't be both. Not that there's anything wrong with a new approach if it works, mind you. This Pennywise has red hair, orange buttons, and baggy pants.
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May 21, 2017 00:00
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Nroo posted:This Pennywise has red hair, orange buttons, and baggy pants. When you think about Bozo you don't think about a 26 years old guy with a small chin and delicate features. You think about a creepy middle aged man. Google Bozo and see for yourself, or better yet, watch the mini-series again! The clothes are wrong as well. Bozo is an explosion of colors, while the new IT is mostly a dirty white with desaturated everything else. Much darker than the 90s version or what's described in the book, which works if you're really after younger viewers I suppose. Also: http://imgur.com/a/3tNOc Next to Curry, Skarsgard looks like an angry chipmunk. Look at how hard he's trying though.
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May 21, 2017 00:16
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I mean, not all of the new Pennywise stuff has him grimacing like Jack Nicholson.
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May 21, 2017 00:36
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Kawabata posted:When you think about Bozo you don't think about a 26 years old guy with a small chin and delicate features. You think about a creepy middle aged man. Google Bozo and see for yourself, or better yet, watch the mini-series again! Well they weren't going to give him a multi-colored suit, that wouldn't film well. So instead there's a simplified design of mostly grey with red/orange highlights. It's a slight, inconsequential change to better suit the medium. And that comparison shot is using a screengrab from the miniseries against a promo photo from EW, which has become something of a running joke for their terrible promo photos. So now I'm started to get confused, because I thought this was an argument about the tone of the new movie, instead of about the details of the appearance and guesswork on Skarsgard's performance from what amounts to seconds of screentime.
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May 21, 2017 00:44
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The problem with making the new Pennywise look like Curry's Pennywise, is all that it would do is invite even more comparisons to Curry's.
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May 21, 2017 00:50
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I'm more curious about how they're going to do the classic monsters, if they even will. We know clowns can be creepy, but how the hell do you make the mummy or wolf man scary in 2017? Now that I think about it, IT is basically A Nightmare on Elm St. meets The Monster Squad.
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May 21, 2017 01:00
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Is there a law about reinventing a character or something?
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May 21, 2017 01:05
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One of the creepiest parts of the Mummy II was when they were at the museum and all the scrub mummies are resurrected along with the titular Mummy. Those guys looked a lot spookier than the actual villain of the film.
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May 21, 2017 01:06
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