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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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WampaLord posted:No, moron, if the cost increase is very very very small then we actually don't care about the increase. If Walmart raises prices 0.2% but millions more people are making more money, that is a net gain for society. But have you considered that half of minimum wage workers may not be "really" poor? 
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May 21, 2017 16:41
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WampaLord posted:No, moron, if the cost increase is very very very small then we actually don't care about the increase. If Walmart raises prices 0.2% but millions more people are making more money, that is a net gain for society. So you don't care whether wal-mart shoppers or wal-mart owners are footing the bill for the wage increase? I do and this math doesn't come close to figuring that out.
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May 21, 2017 16:43
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asdf32 posted:So you don't care whether wal-mart shoppers or wal-mart owners are footing the bill for the wage increase? I do and this math doesn't come close to figuring that out. No, I don't. Not when the increase is $12 per YEAR. https://www.attn.com/stories/1786/how-much-prices-walmart-rise-if-they-paid-better-wage quote:It just so happens that a 2011 study from UC-Berkeley examined this, calculating the effect of a wage hike to $12 at Walmart, the nation's largest private employer, and the results are fascinating. Granted, this is $12/hour, not $15, but I doubt that extra $3 is going to throw things way out of whack.
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May 21, 2017 16:45
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all of you deserve to die
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May 21, 2017 16:55
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WampaLord posted:No, I don't. Not when the increase is $12 per YEAR. Yes that's how math works. Giving money to a small number of people and spreading it to a larger number of people makes it look small. You could give me a 3 million dollars and it would only cost you a penny! I keep having to repeat this but it matters a lot whether costs are passed on to customers or absorbed by owners and the percentage cost increase may remain small even if businesses pass on 100% (since minimum wage increases typically aren't large). Clearly in wal-mart's case where customers are poor it has a huge negative impact on the the net benefit to poor people if they pay for all of it.
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May 21, 2017 17:01
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asdf32 posted:Yes that's how math works. Giving money to a small number of people and spreading it to a larger number of people makes it look small. You could give me a 3 million dollars and it would only cost you a penny! Actually if the entire cost were passed on to consumers (which it wouldn't be, lol) then wouldn't that not be a negative impact, but rather a neutral one? And this is assuming one would spend every penny they make at corporate sources that would pass the costs on, which no one would.
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May 21, 2017 17:03
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Condiv posted:it's always surprising that we have to let the minimum wage keep falling or the economy will fall apart. i'm sure the rich, who are making more than ever year upon year could manage to share some of the money they stole from workers, but apparently that will destroy the economy? There's something like 30 trillion dollars stashed in offshore tax havens right now right? If the share of that belonging to US taxpayers/companies is roughly equivalent to the American percentage of worldwide GDP, there's a lot of money there that could be taxed and redistributed. In the face of such gigantic wealth inequality and the avoidance on the part of the rich to contribute to their country's upkeep, anyone fighting even the relative table scraps of 15/hr is a massive piece of poo poo.
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May 21, 2017 17:08
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asdf32 posted:I keep having to repeat this but it matters a lot whether costs are passed on to customers or absorbed by owners and the percentage cost increase may remain small even if businesses pass on 100% (since minimum wage increases typically aren't large). Clearly in wal-mart's case where customers are poor it has a huge negative impact on the the net benefit to poor people if they pay for all of it. WHY? WHY DOES IT MATTER? If the increase is $12 a year, why does it matter? What is so morally/mathematically/ethically/economically/whatever wrong about this to you? Like, the only way this makes sense to me is that you are theoretically upset about this situation, but not practically upset about the actual numbers, which is the worst kind of discussion. Let's talk about practical poo poo and not hypothetical problems. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 17:13 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 17:10
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Anyone have any good links for reading about what's going on with the California democrats?
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May 21, 2017 17:13
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it implies that he has been actively supporting a vast amount of human misery for no better reason than intellectual cowardice, and that is not a conclusion he is willing to face
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May 21, 2017 17:14
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I find the notion of a higher minimum wage being "taken" from the owners pretty offensive in light of how much money has been robbed from everyone else for decades.
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May 21, 2017 17:15
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Condiv posted:it's always surprising that we have to let the minimum wage keep falling or the economy will fall apart. i'm sure the rich, who are making more than ever year upon year could manage to share some of the money they stole from workers, but apparently that will destroy the economy? Taking money from the rich is a really good idea that absolutely won't make the economy fall apart. Minimum wage is not really the thing to do that though. WampaLord posted:WHY? WHY DOES IT MATTER? Because the big picture impact on poor people matters so I really care whether poor people are paying for minimum wage?
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May 21, 2017 18:14
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How many elections do you nerds have to lose before you get the memo that centrism is a defunct ideology
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May 21, 2017 19:05
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asdf32 posted:Because the big picture impact on poor people matters so I really care whether poor people are paying for minimum wage? So because some poor people will have to pay a tiny bit more in costs (something that happens anyway with inflation) so that many many other poor people (including many of the first group) can get a massive pay increase, it's not worth pursuing? Like, you are pedantically correct in that "poor people" pay for the minimum wage hike in some very small way, but are missing the forest for the trees. Many of those same poor people would be the people making the new higher wage.
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May 21, 2017 19:09
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asdf32 posted:Yes that's how math works. Giving money to a small number of people and spreading it to a larger number of people makes it look small. You could give me a 3 million dollars and it would only cost you a penny! This is only relevant for the products i get from Walmart. It would greatly help poor people pay for other important things, such a rent, gas, insurance and healthcare. A doubling of their available funds is huge, since a large chunk is always eaten up by fixed costs. Studies back up that raising the minimum wage is a great way to get people to spend more as well, and increase the flow of capital which in turn helps stimulate the economy. asdf32 posted:A few closing comments: it remains obvious that minimum wage increases help workers who get it. By definition you can eliminate the working poor this way. But that doesn't mean its clear that this is a good approach to helping poor people overall or at generally redistributing wealth downwards which as far as I'm concerned is the most important goal. Okay so what is your suggestion? What politically marketable goal do you have in mind to alleviate poverty if apparently the minimum wage is so detrimental?
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May 21, 2017 19:11
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But you see the poor will not realize the full amount of the purchasing power increase only most of it.. therefore do nothing, as I do not want my big Mac costing an extra quarter.
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May 21, 2017 20:03
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White Rock posted:This is only relevant for the products i get from Walmart. Healthcare (which now means fighting for Obamacare) and infrastructure which directly props up employment and wages are always my favorites. Phi230 posted:How many elections do you nerds have to lose before you get the memo that centrism is a defunct ideology Everyone should fight for what they passionately believe in and for some of us that's status-quo centrism.
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May 21, 2017 20:17
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asdf32 posted:Healthcare (which now means fighting for Obamacare) and infrastructure which directly props up employment and wages are always my favorites. Centrism is literally the belief in nothing and that sentence alone makes you retarded. Can't wait to see what you post during then next economic collapse.
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May 21, 2017 20:27
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asdf32 posted:Healthcare (which now means fighting for Obamacare) and infrastructure which directly props up employment and wages are always my favorites. Obamacare is a disaster. Healthcare means fighting for universal coverage. You don't believe in anything.
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May 21, 2017 20:30
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I mean how loving dumb or sociopathic do you have to be to think the status quo is good gently caress yeah I love 50% of the USA being on or below the poverty line I love systematic racism I love having to work my whole life to simply meet my basic needs I love destroying the environment I love creating horrific sweatshops overseas I love destabilizing other countries to make some people rich, killing thousands The only people that can afford to be centrists are wonky rich white people. MLK was talking about you people when he said the white moderate was against civil rights. You are scum. Democrats are a waste. Phi230 fucked around with this message at 20:43 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 20:37
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Phi230 posted:I mean how loving dumb or sociopathic do you have to be to think the status quo is good This has roughly the intellectual sophistication of a teen telling us their parents suck. Human history isn't full of examples of how to do things better than what liberal democratic capitalism is currently giving us and in-fact shows us a bunch of ways it can be a lot worse and the most likely alternative to the status-quo is in the white house right now.
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May 21, 2017 20:49
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The masks are really coming off.
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May 21, 2017 20:57
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asdf32 posted:Yes that's how math works. Giving money to a small number of people and spreading it to a larger number of people makes it look small. You could give me a 3 million dollars and it would only cost you a penny! you are absolutely the last person on earth that should describe "how math works"
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May 21, 2017 21:12
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asdf32 posted:Healthcare (which now means fighting for Obamacare) and infrastructure which directly props up employment and wages are always my favorites. White Rock fucked around with this message at 21:35 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 21:12
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asdf32 posted:
hahaha this is a thing I would say sarcastically, because there are multiple examples in the living world of better ways to do things, or at bare minimum, better ways to curtail the rampant fuckery that is American capitalism
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May 21, 2017 21:19
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asdf32 posted:This has roughly the intellectual sophistication of a teen telling us their parents suck. liberal democratic capitalism gave you what is in the white house right now
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May 21, 2017 21:27
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Lol you'd think spending the entire election being a smug Hillary shill and then watching it all go down in flames would trigger some sort of introspection, but nope! Despera is back to tell everyone why neoliberalism is still the true path It's not the centrists' fault that they can't and won't earn votes, it's the voters' fault for having actual principles and real material needs that are incompatible with the centrist agenda. Centrism cannot fail; it can only be failed.
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May 21, 2017 21:29
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Polygynous posted:But have you considered that half of minimum wage workers may not be "really" poor? *Posts  refrigerator ownership gif*(I'm on my phone)
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May 21, 2017 21:45
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This ~0.5% price increase we're worrying about is less than the central bank's annual inflation target, and the status quo loves spending billions to prop up asset prices with quantitative easing. "Giving billions to the rich to boost inflation is great, but if the working poor get just a little bit of that money then suddenly it's bad for the poor" is such an absurd position that I am doubtful it's even intended as a serious argument.
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May 22, 2017 01:44
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asdf32 posted:Everyone should fight for what they passionately believe in and for some of us that's status-quo centrism. Dumb question, but what do you LOSE when you accede to the demands of the left and give gay people, women, minorities, and the poor more protections or even equal rights? The status quo is loving abysmal for hundreds of millions of Americans.
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May 22, 2017 03:13
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The Kingfish posted:Obamacare is a disaster. Healthcare means fighting for universal coverage. You don't believe in anything. Obamacare is the result of centrism in action. Who, exactly, is HAPPY with it? The right wants to tear it down as a monstrous socialist idol without comprehending any of the underlying issues with it (capitalism in a loving marketplace of captive victims), the left wants to make the leap to where every civilized nation went following WWII. We're 75 years behind the times; how much higher does that need to go before someone in your circle of belief acknowledges that there's a problem here.
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May 22, 2017 03:17
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Imagine how greatly the working poor would benefit if we force them to work for free. They'd save almost 1% on their grocery bills! Pay everyone nothing and we can all live like kings on the savings.
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May 22, 2017 03:32
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VitalSigns posted:Imagine how greatly the working poor would benefit if we force them to work for free. They'd save almost 1% on their grocery bills! What if we made them pay their employers for the privilege of working? Think of the savings then!
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May 22, 2017 05:13
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Apoplexy posted:Dumb question, but what do you LOSE when you accede to the demands of the left and give gay people, women, minorities, and the poor more protections or even equal rights? they have to admit they were wrong
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May 22, 2017 05:46
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Best for the poor: make the poor into hot dogs, lampshades, and furniture, sell it back to their grateful families for lowwwwww lowwwwww prices! Poor-Mart™: prices so low you'll slap your momma!...to get her into that cattle car! VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 05:55 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 05:47
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VitalSigns posted:Imagine how greatly the working poor would benefit if we force them to work for free. They'd save almost 1% on their grocery bills! readingatwork posted:What if we made them pay their employers for the privilege of working? Think of the savings then! Not joking, so glad people like you exist in the world.
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May 22, 2017 05:58
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Phi230 posted:I mean how loving dumb or sociopathic do you have to be to think the status quo is good Democrats have stockholm syndrome; they're the Republicans' gimps.
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May 22, 2017 06:07
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Phi230 posted:I mean how loving dumb or sociopathic do you have to be to think the status quo is good No you've got it all wrong. Of course I want to fix these problems and I believe we must do everything we can in order to accomplish it. But I don't want to pay any more taxes, and I don't want my grocery bill to go up, and I don't want a different health insurer, and I don't want to pay more at the pump, and I don't want to lose out on my property value appreciation, and I don't want eating out to cost more, and I don't want to change my driving routine, and I don't want to change my consumption habits, and I don't want any changes to the "character" of my neighborhood, and I don't want to bus my children, and I don't want to press '1' for English, and I don't want my media to become too "ethnic", and I don't want to be soft on terror, and I don't want to coddle criminals, and I don't want anyone to have it easier than I did, and I don't want to feel bad about my purchases, and I don't ever want to admit I was ever wrong. OK keeping all that in mind, now let's hear your plan, leftists.
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May 22, 2017 06:51
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VitalSigns posted:OK keeping all that in mind, now let's hear your plan, leftists. dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed
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May 22, 2017 07:11
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VitalSigns posted:No you've got it all wrong. Of course I want to fix these problems and I believe we must do everything we can in order to accomplish it. Finally a mature viewpoint. Refreshing to hear from someone other than pie in the sky leftists..
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May 22, 2017 07:48
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