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xtothez posted:Oh they definitely will; the question is how well designed they are outside that. They will need at least an 8" move to keep up with the big guy, and a reasonable points cost so that you're not just better off taking an extra Hive Tyrant like you are now. What I've seen rumored is that the bodyguard ability works like a sort of overwatch for shooting. If a unit within 15" of the hive guard shoots at your tyrant the guard immediately get a round of shooting against them before they roll to hit.
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May 21, 2017 17:10
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Artum posted:Hardly, they'll have a significant save against krak, a 6+ against las, and nothing against melta but thats the point. Oh are they 3+? I thought they had a 4+ save. My bad.
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May 21, 2017 17:12
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chutche2 posted:I guess warriors are more survivable against battle cannons? A battle cannon hit only kills 1/3 of the time, probably only hits 2 of them, and they get a save. Furthermore all of these will only one shot a warrior on a 3+ damage roll as opposed to instant deathing them on any wound like now.
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May 21, 2017 17:14
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They straight up said in Fridays q&a that Tyrant Guard just take the wounds for the tyrant.
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May 21, 2017 17:14
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Warriors have a 4+ right now. This may change especially if they bring back more biomorph upgra- oh who am I kidding?
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May 21, 2017 17:15
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Artum posted:Furthermore all of these will only one shot a warrior on a 3+ damage roll as opposed to instant deathing them on any wound like now. Yeah but that's not the vast survivability boost they're claiming
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May 21, 2017 17:18
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chutche2 posted:Oh are they 3+? I thought they had a 4+ save. My bad. No wait you're right, 4+ it is, still, the damage roll functionally means they have a 3+ save against las and melta and they'll have a 6+ against krak which will only do d3 wounds so 2/3s chance of surviving that too. Point is they're not bullshitting about them being more durable, its just an effect of the game system changing rather than their statline.
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May 21, 2017 17:19
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chutche2 posted:Yeah but that's not the vast survivability boost they're claiming Losing 2/3s fewer warriors to a round of heavy weapons fire is pretty vast.
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May 21, 2017 17:21
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Artum posted:Losing 2/3s fewer warriors to a round of heavy weapons fire is pretty vast. Where are you getting this number from?
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May 21, 2017 17:22
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If I was ever going to get my hands on a Hive Tyrant, I was going to build it as a Flyrant for sure due to the badass pose. The Swarmlord is seriously making me reconsider that. I'm imagining a guaranteed Trygon charge backed up by 30 Termagants unloading hell on the opponent's back line, or maybe a cloud of Hormagants tying up so many enemy forces that The Swarmlord can advance unopposed. And they finally loving got Synapse right.
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May 21, 2017 17:24
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Safety Factor posted:
Look, sometimes when you want to criticise stuff and you can't find a suitable complaint you just have to cram in what you've got to hand.
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May 21, 2017 17:24
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Current: Lascannon wounds a Tyranid Warrior on 2+. Unless you're in cover, no save. Warrior is dead due to instant death. New: Lascannon wounds a Tyranid Warrior on 2+. Unless you're in cover, no save. Warrior takes D6 wounds and is dead 2/3 of the time. Without seeing what other abilities they get or what cover does, they're not that much better off vs Lascannons.
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May 21, 2017 17:25
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Was it ever confirmed krak missiles are d6? I remember that was the rumor. Grenades are d3
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May 21, 2017 17:28
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Zark the Damned posted:Current: Lascannon instakills a Tyranid Warrior on 2+, or does a single wound to an MC on 2+ New: Lascannon has a 66% chance to instakill a Tyranid Warrior, or can do D6 wounds to an MC When there's a bunch of 10-12 wound Trygons bearing down on you, which target do you pick? That's going to be the main difference. On an unrelated note, after roughly estimating which factions are left to be covered with a focus article the current schedule lines up neatly with Saturday 10th June.
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May 21, 2017 17:35
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:Almost like someone writing their rules knows the history of both the game mechanics and the fiction behind the army, and cares about whether they're fun to play, rather than meekly asking for the right to exist on the tabletop with Mr. Human Hero sorry for offending you with my lowly presence please kill me in droves for free I'll even help. You've mentioned Robin Cruddace 10 times in the last page's worth of your posts alone, maybe consider whether you have an unhealthy fixation.
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May 21, 2017 17:40
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xtothez posted:Current: I guess? Depends on the costs if you're likely to see a bunch of trygons and a bunch of warriors at the same time. We'll see. Guns to shoot at a trygon will undoubtedly cost less than a trygon. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 17:45 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 17:42
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Safety Factor posted:
The kind that wonders how this will speed up gameplay instead of a straight 4++.
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May 21, 2017 17:42
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It's all going to come down to point costs. If a Tyranid Warrior with a bonesword and lashwhip is still 50 points, they'll still be terrible. The swarmlord is also going to need to have a lot of other good abilities and psychic powers, so we definitely don't have the full picture on him. They mentioned synapse, but didn't mention Instinctive Behavior. They mentioned that Synapse makes units immune to moral checks, but not that it also made them immune to the effects of instinctive behavior. Could Instinctive behavior be totally gone? I sure hope so. ALso no mention of Shadow in the Warp.
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May 21, 2017 17:44
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LingcodKilla posted:The kind that wonders how this will speed up gameplay instead of a straight 4++. It doesn't help speed things up, but it gives the Swarmlord a noticable achilles heel in ranged compared to his melee god status. At a 4++ save in melee, he can parry a Knight's 6-wound chainsword about half the time. Which is an amazing mental image, frankly. However, he has a much less fun time against explosives, lascannons, and meltas, which is really fair and gives him an easily identified weakness on the field.
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May 21, 2017 17:46
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LingcodKilla posted:The kind that wonders how this will speed up gameplay instead of a straight 4++.
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May 21, 2017 17:47
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The Bee posted:It doesn't help speed things up, but it gives the Swarmlord a noticable achilles heel in ranged compared to his melee god status. At a 4++ save in melee, he can parry a Knight's 6-wound chainsword about half the time. Which is an amazing mental image, frankly. Just imagine him ducking.
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May 21, 2017 17:48
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chutche2 posted:Where are you getting this number from? By being tired and rushing my maths. Assuming MEQ Bs: 7th ed 3+hit*2+wound*no save = 55% chance to be killed by a lascannon shot 8th ed 3+*2+*no save*3+ damage roll = 37% chance to be killed 9% chance to survive with 2 wounds 9% chance to survive with 1 wound So 32% less likely to be killed by a lascannon hit, 18% chance to survive and tank an additional shot wasting any excess damage it deals. Battle cannons went from killing the entire squad half the time to dealing an average of 2.43 wounds to the squad 3.5(average shots)*1/2(Bs)*5/6(wound)*5/6(fail save)*2(average damage) = 2.43 wounds Unless you're throwing a lot of points at them you're a lot less likely to instantly delete a warrior brood like you can now.
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May 21, 2017 17:49
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Yeah, points are what it'll come down to. Just kind of rubs me the wrong way that terminators doubled their wounds and warriors got nothing, unless the point balance between the two is much different. But I don't play nids so I don't really have a stake in it, I just want to see stuff that was garbage before become usable. Artum posted:Words Yes, they are much more durable against battle cannons which is why I already said that. You don't need to do a bunch of math to prove poo poo I've already discussed. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 17:50
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The point is they're much more durable against everything, so tyranid synapse isn't a complete joke to get rid of.
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May 21, 2017 18:02
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Artum posted:The point is they're much more durable against everything, so tyranid synapse isn't a complete joke to get rid of. Going to have to disagree with you there but that's fine An important thing to remember is everything has split fire and heavy weapons dont need to snap shot if they move so it becomes way easier to toss opportunistic shots at targets which you wouldn't do before. Like having a tac squad unload bolters on some gaunts while the heavy weapon shoots a warrior. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 18:05 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 18:02
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Is it just me, or do Tau seem kinda hosed now? Sure a lot of their units will be able to run away after a round of assault, but I kinda doubt they'll even survive the charge. Increasing everyone's ability to get in combat quickly and wreck face means the gun line doesn't have much of a chance to whittle them down before the assaults start.
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May 21, 2017 18:12
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Warriors are absolutely more durable now. Rather than being simply eliminated by S8+, they have a chance to survive that didn't exist before. It's not really debatable. For example, assuming the AP system still tracks as it has so far, a krak round should have a -2 to saves which will give a warrior a 6+ save. They used to have none. If the missile gets through, it will cause a variable amount of damage and may not kill the warrior.
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May 21, 2017 18:13
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chutche2 posted:Going to have to disagree with you there but that's fine and that opportunistic shot is much less dangerous than it once might have been, a krak missile will only kill a warrior 1 time in 10, las 1 in 4. What Safety's saying basically.
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May 21, 2017 18:19
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Never claimed they aren't more durable, but not to the extent they're trying to hype.
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May 21, 2017 18:20
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Yeah, Warriors are objectively more durable than they used to be. But a 6+ save alongside a 1/3 chance to not be killed instantly is a pretty minor boost in survavability, and if a bonesword & lashwhip warrior is still 50 points, they will still not be anywhere near viable. What WILL make them viable is not durability, but the ability to show up and charge before the enemy gets a chance to shoot. If they can drop out of a Tyrannocyte, get a bonus move from a Tyrant, then charge, that could be very good. Master Twig fucked around with this message at 18:31 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 18:26
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Heavy infantry dies to anti-tank weapons, more news at 11.
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May 21, 2017 18:37
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Floppychop posted:Heavy infantry dies to anti-tank weapons, more news at 11. +1 wound would put them on the favourable side of the 3.5 d6 average. If terminators can get that so should warriors.
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May 21, 2017 18:40
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chutche2 posted:Never claimed they aren't more durable, but not to the extent they're trying to hype.  It is OK. Tyranids sound greatly improved. It is OK to not be scared anymore.
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May 21, 2017 18:42
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chutche2 posted:+1 wound would put them on the favourable side of the 3.5 d6 average. If terminators can get that so should warriors. Terminators are the most elite soldiers in an already elite army. Warriors are mid strength synapse creatures. I don't see this focus on equating the two since they fill completely different battlefield roles. Assuming they are both priced appropriately there is no reason to expect Warriors would have the same resiliance to anti tank weapons.
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May 21, 2017 18:53
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Man y'all are out of your minds. All these changes sound good as hell e: Lol except for this 80 dice thing. Like yeah that sounds powerful AF but gently caress rolling 80 dice. At that point just call it 64 hits and let's get on with it. TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 18:55
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TheChirurgeon posted:Man y'all are out of your minds. All these changes sound good as hell This guy gets it. I don't need Tyranids to be the strongest army in the game, but everything in the article is either an improvement or a huge improvement. The force sounds both thematic and playable. Your salt only strengthens the Hive Mind.
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May 21, 2017 18:57
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Master Twig posted:Yeah, Warriors are objectively more durable than they used to be. But a 6+ save alongside a 1/3 chance to not be killed instantly is a pretty minor boost in survavability, and if a bonesword & lashwhip warrior is still 50 points, they will still not be anywhere near viable. 33% survivability against S8 weapons is actually a pretty large boost, even before you count the 1/6 chance to save that you didn't have against Krak/battlecannons/lascannons before
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May 21, 2017 19:06
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Can Hormagaunts advance and charge in the same turn, or is it unique to Genestealers?
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May 21, 2017 19:07
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TheChirurgeon posted:Man y'all are out of your minds. All these changes sound good as hell I have ran a first curse and gotten a turn 1 charge with it without losing a single man to overwatch. That is a nice 80 die roll. Very satisfying. Here's hoping broodlords are very similar to patriarchs from GSC. Honestly, the unit I'm most excited to be good again, which we haven't heard anything about, is Hive Guard. I'm assuming that the Impaler Cannon will be S8, AP-1, 2 shots, ignores cover, no line of sight needed. If they do d6 damage, awesome. If they go back to hitting on a 3+, even more awesome. They'll be pretty fragile if they remain at 2 wounds though.
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May 21, 2017 19:08
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DO IT TO IT posted:Can Hormagaunts advance and charge in the same turn, or is it unique to Genestealers? Sounds like just Genestealers, but the Swarmlord ability they mention is what you can use to get gaunts moving twice before charging
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May 21, 2017 19:09
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