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Master Twig posted:Who else took this as them saying that they have severely nerfed the Flying Hive Tyrant with devourers? Yeah I am very worried that this is what that means 
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May 21, 2017 19:20
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Zark the Damned posted:
Those are some good looking orks! That guy looks very intimidating. Dr Hemulen fucked around with this message at 19:23 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 19:20
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DO IT TO IT posted:Can Hormagaunts advance and charge in the same turn, or is it unique to Genestealers? My money is on them getting a special rule to boost advance/charge rolls like now; like roll an extra D6 and pick the highest. TheChirurgeon posted:e: Lol except for this 80 dice thing. Like yeah that sounds powerful AF but gently caress rolling 80 dice. At that point just call it 64 hits and let's get on with it. To be fair, a unit rolling that many dice plus a Broordlord is gonna be about 1/4th to 1/3rd of your total points so it's not like you'll be rolling much else. Master Twig posted:Honestly, the unit I'm most excited to be good again, which we haven't heard anything about, is Hive Guard. I'm assuming that the Impaler Cannon will be S8, AP-1, 2 shots, ignores cover, no line of sight needed. If they do d6 damage, awesome. If they go back to hitting on a 3+, even more awesome. A while ago I picked up some of the new plastic ones and built them with shockcannons because they look pretty awesome, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they do now.
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May 21, 2017 19:35
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xtothez posted:To be fair, a unit rolling that many dice plus a Broordlord is gonna be about 1/4th to 1/3rd of your total points so it's not like you'll be rolling much else. Yeah but at that point, not only do the logistics of rolling that many dice start to be an issue, but your variance goes waaaay down. You may end up with wildly different results on 2-6 dice pretty often. But at 40+ dice, you're gonna end up with pretty similar results most of the time.
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May 21, 2017 19:44
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TheChirurgeon posted:Yeah but at that point, not only do the logistics of rolling that many dice start to be an issue, but your variance goes waaaay down. You may end up with wildly different results on 2-6 dice pretty often. But at 40+ dice, you're gonna end up with pretty similar results most of the time. Ehhh, not necessarily. The logistics part is true, I used to run a ton of Ork infantry back in 4/5th ed, but you'll still regularly get swingy results even if you're rolling a hundred or more dice at a time. The biggest difference is that if you're rolling a lot of dice, there's a better chance of your bad sets of dice rolls still being good enough to kill whatever you're going after.
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May 21, 2017 19:53
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I imagine at Brigade level games that kind of unit is going to be way scarier, where it's also backed up by heavy supports and fast attacks and both players have more points to play around with.
The Bee fucked around with this message at 19:59 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 19:54
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S.J. posted:Ehhh, not necessarily. The logistics part is true, I used to run a ton of Ork infantry back in 4/5th ed, but you'll still regularly get swingy results even if you're rolling a hundred or more dice at a time. The biggest difference is that if you're rolling a lot of dice, there's a better chance of your bad sets of dice rolls still being good enough to kill whatever you're going after. Why is rolling a 100 dice hard again? Is it the time it takes to count them out? Whatever the cost of rolling a bunch of dice is I will happily pay as it is one of the more satisfying things in the game.
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May 21, 2017 20:07
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That's the point where you ask your opponent if you can just use a dice app.
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May 21, 2017 20:12
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If you don't feel a completely unreasonable amount of glee when you throw so many attacks at your opponent that you have to roll a literal bucket full of dice I don't know why you play this game.
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May 21, 2017 20:19
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Just spent a bajillion hours lovingly converting 12 Lootas so the unique, scrap built guns aren't duplicated. Excited about throwing them in the trash once 8th drops. Its a weird time of hope and trepidation. I want to love again but I've just been hurt too many times before. Also I forgot how much of a time black hole this hobby is.
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May 21, 2017 20:19
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Pendent posted:If you don't feel a completely unreasonable amount of glee when you throw so many attacks at your opponent that you have to roll a literal bucket full of dice I don't know why you play this game. It pretty much defines the Warhammer legacy. Just like the idea of having a massive army of hundreds of models, it's an amazing mental image, cool to do once, then just becomes so inconvenient and pointless you start begging for anything else.
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May 21, 2017 20:24
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Games workshop 8E when???
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May 21, 2017 20:26
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Miles O'Brian posted:Just spent a bajillion hours lovingly converting 12 Lootas so the unique, scrap built guns aren't duplicated. Excited about throwing them in the trash once 8th drops. Its a weird time of hope and trepidation. I want to love again but I've just been hurt too many times before. Why throw them in the trash? You have no idea what lootas are going to do, but my guess is they'll be S7, AP-1, and possibly do 1d3 wounds, which could be absolutely terrifying.
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May 21, 2017 20:38
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Master Twig posted:I hate, hate, hate that they get less effective the more they get shot. It's very rare in games that my MCs get to combat without having taken a lot of wounds on the walk there. Provided they're costed appropriately, I'm not sure I mind it. I hate it initially, but if degradation of stats saves me like a gorillion points so I can take another Goliath full of flamers, it won't be so bad. Couple that with possible Turn 1 charges and assault from Deep Strike and it seems more like a mechanic to give the opponent hope before motherfucker crashes into their lines like a truck full of truck parts. e: Plus functional FNPs, plus Hive Guard, plus possible regeneration. Proletariat Beowulf fucked around with this message at 20:47 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 20:43
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I am very excited to play 40k again. I wish the Imperial Guard preview went into a little more detail than "a bunch of units are good now!"
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May 21, 2017 20:48
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The Saddest Robot posted:That's the point where you ask your opponent if you can just use a dice app. Honestly I never had an issue with it, but I understand if other people don't like it. I enjoyed figuring out the number of dice bricks I needed to get out.
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May 21, 2017 20:49
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Massive numbers of dice is frankly the best part about being a horde player.
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May 21, 2017 21:42
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Massive dice are fine as long as you don't take forever to count them up. Are there any dice packs with each face having its own color? That could make it so much easier if you realize "okay, I hit on Purple, and wound Guardsmen on Yellow" and cut down on the need to hover over dice and squint at them.
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May 21, 2017 21:44
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Master Twig posted:Why throw them in the trash? You have no idea what lootas are going to do, but my guess is they'll be S7, AP-1, and possibly do 1d3 wounds, which could be absolutely terrifying. They could amazing, I'm just taking the pessimistic approach that they'll be terrible because I spent so long on them. Sorry loota fans, it'll be my fault. Other things that will be terrible based on the same logic: Bikes Battlewagons Buggies Killa Kans
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May 21, 2017 21:48
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Large numbers of dice are not hard to deal with did none of you ever play infantry Guard or horde Orks?
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May 21, 2017 21:51
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The Bee posted:Massive dice are fine as long as you don't take forever to count them up. Are there any dice packs with each face having its own color? That could make it so much easier if you realize "okay, I hit on Purple, and wound Guardsmen on Yellow" and cut down on the need to hover over dice and squint at them. You could always painstakingly paint each die yourself.
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May 21, 2017 21:52
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thesurlyspringKAA posted:Is it just me, or do Tau seem kinda hosed now? Sure a lot of their units will be able to run away after a round of assault, but I kinda doubt they'll even survive the charge. Tau still get supporting fire which means: Supporting Fire: When an enemy charges, all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the unit being charged can choose to fire overwatch. That's if the rules stay exactly the same for supporting fire. That's a fuckload of shots. In my first ever game, the guy playing ultras was unaware of this rule and charged with gulliman and about had a poo poo fit when I got to throw over 80 dice at him. What I didn't miss, he ended up saving, and he still came back to life after I managed to kill him anyways so  Edit: also this Corrode posted:Large numbers of dice are not hard to deal with did none of you ever play infantry Guard or horde Orks?
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May 21, 2017 21:53
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The Bee posted:Massive dice are fine as long as you don't take forever to count them up. Are there any dice packs with each face having its own color? That could make it so much easier if you realize "okay, I hit on Purple, and wound Guardsmen on Yellow" and cut down on the need to hover over dice and squint at them. Properly marked dice don't require squinting anyways. But yeah, that can be nice. I have some color-marked dice for D10 that show you successes vs failures at a quick glance, but it works best for games that have a fixed number you're shooting for. Having a different color for every single face is something I haven't really seen, but you're right that'd be useful. I can almost imagine a version of 40k where we don't even have numbers. "Tyrants hit on red, while gaunts hit on yellow"
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May 21, 2017 22:09
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Rainbow dice from red to purple. "I need green or better to hit."
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May 21, 2017 22:14
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I was actually surprised that with the introduction of damage and rolling to see how many to hit rolls they didnt make custom dice with not sandard numbers on them (like 2,3,3,4,4,5) since they are getting rid of scatters and are no longer required to buy some over priced GW dice.
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May 21, 2017 22:29
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chutche2 posted:I guess warriors are more survivable against battle cannons? A battle cannon hit only kills 1/3 of the time, probably only hits 2 of them, and they get a save. 8th edition: Bad battle cannons
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May 21, 2017 22:33
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I just have Enrique roll all my dice for me. HardCoil posted:Rainbow dice from red to purple. "I need green or better to hit." Clearly you just need 5 piles of colored dice that have 1 red side, 2 red sides, etc up to 5 red sides, with the red side being a miss and the other color a hit. Maybe they all have one green side to imply a 6 for things like rending. Simple!
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May 21, 2017 22:39
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Baddle Cannons.
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May 21, 2017 22:39
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Baddle Cannons. Beat me to it
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May 21, 2017 22:46
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No kidding, all 7 of my Lemon Russ' are now taking the non battle cannon turrets. Getting 3.5 hits on average is way, way lower than what I would routinely get with a template, so gently caress that. edit: That's what makes me slightly nervous with the Guard overall. All our Killy stuff is template based. Wyverns, Manticores, Russ, Death strike (lol) If they're all just a D6 of hits, that's incredibly unreliable. Yeast fucked around with this message at 23:16 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 23:13
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Wait how are Battlecannons bad now? Is this nostalgia for that one time ever when six figures were included in a blast template?
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May 21, 2017 23:18
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Battle Cannons aren't bad Goons are just being dramatic. Battle Cannons under 7th average 'scattering off the target entirely' as a result. This is more consistent than they've ever been.
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May 21, 2017 23:19
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Strobe posted:Battle Cannons aren't bad Goons are just being dramatic. Battle Cannons under 7th average 'scattering off the target entirely' as a result. This is more consistent than they've ever been. But my bias!
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May 21, 2017 23:20
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Yeast posted:No kidding, all 7 of my Lemon Russ' are now taking the non battle cannon turrets.  So it's even worse than you think.
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May 21, 2017 23:23
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Don't be so dismissive. I'm not saying the sky is falling, I'm nervous that the vast majority of what deals damage in the guard army is going from some semblance of reliability to a D6 dice roll and cross your fingers. They're less effective than they were. Previously you could position a template, and do damage. New battle cannons now can't kill marines outright, as they go from having no save, to a 5+ in the open. Maybe that's a good thing that we finally see other variants of the Leman Russ on the table, but its worrying for the main weapon of the battle tank to be worse than it was before. I didn't see the Leman Russ and think, yep - that thing def needs a nerf, far too powerful.
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May 21, 2017 23:30
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Battlecannons are going to be worse off against general infantry & MEQs, but fare better against TEQs and single large targets like tanks and especially MCs. Even with medicore rolls they could plausibly be insta-killing Carnifexes. But I guess if you have a weapon that isn't super-effective against any possible kind of target it shouldn't ever be used.
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May 21, 2017 23:38
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Yeast posted:They're less effective than they were. Previously you could position a template, and do damage. Ballistics Skill 3 had a 66% chance to scatter an average of 4" and a greater than 40% chance to scatter off the target entirely. "Position a template and do damage" is the best case, not the expected result.
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May 21, 2017 23:41
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The big issue with battle cannons is that it's D6 shots, not D6 hits. They say it's a great tank killer now, but with only 1d3 damage, they're still only likely to do 2 or 4 wounds on a vehicle. Not really that impressive. A Leman Russ firing against a T8 knight with a 5+ invuln you're looking at 1.17 hull points on average. That's pathetic.
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May 21, 2017 23:45
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moths posted:Wait how are Battlecannons bad now? Is this nostalgia for that one time ever when six figures were included in a blast template? Yes. Seriously guys, the BC might be worse against infantry in the open, but considering how rare that actually was, I'll take a weapon that does more consistent damage and can do more than a single wound or hull point to bigger monsters and vehicles over one that might wipe out six marines on a good roll in perfect circumstances. Plus, let's not forget they got rid of the ordnance rules, so now the front-mounted heavy bolter on the LR isn't just ornamental.
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May 21, 2017 23:47
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Strobe posted:Ballistics Skill 3 had a 66% chance to scatter an average of 4" and a greater than 40% chance to scatter off the target entirely. "Position a template and do damage" is the best case, not the expected result. Check your math, that's 106%.
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May 21, 2017 23:47
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