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dogstile posted:That legitimately sounds like a good idea. A class entirely about positioning and forcing your enemy to relocate or die (slowly) could be fun to play about with. winston????
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May 22, 2017 16:13
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Kaubocks posted:winston???? I mean, the conversation was about an anti air class. I know Winston exists!
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May 22, 2017 16:23
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A lock-on homing projectiles class would be pretty fun and hide the fact that I'm bad at aiming guns in any video game.
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May 22, 2017 16:34
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dogstile posted:I mean, the conversation was about an anti air class. I know Winston exists! If you don't think Winston can do anti-air you haven't seen a really good winston
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May 22, 2017 16:35
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flatluigi posted:If you don't think Winston can do anti-air you haven't seen a really good winston Just lol if you can't handle pharmercery as a nominally melee range character
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May 22, 2017 16:37
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dogstile posted:I mean, the conversation was about an anti air class. I know Winston exists! https://clips.twitch.tv/TentativeRespectfulZucchiniTheThing
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May 22, 2017 16:38
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Just lol if you can't handle pharmercery as a nominally melee range character Easy answer, enable junkrat mine friendly fire making Reinhardt the natural Pharmercy counter.
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May 22, 2017 16:40
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An upshot to falling to the 2500 range is the Mercy players suck, they don't pocket Pharah so you can just shoot them both.
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May 22, 2017 16:48
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:Sure are a lot of overly aggressive Lucio and sniper Dva's in that video In fairness, if the enemy team is even worse than you are then playing a super-aggressive Lucio can be really, really fun. There's nothing more fun than engaging Roadhog at melee range, booping him around like a giant volleyball and not dying because the Hog's player doesn't know how to use his kit to instantly end you.
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May 22, 2017 16:54
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flatluigi posted:If you don't think Winston can do anti-air you haven't seen a really good winston I mean I can anti air a pharah as winston and do it all the time, but its certainly not his niche. He popped an ult for that. That's not a niche counter class! 
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May 22, 2017 16:55
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:In fairness, if the enemy team is even worse than you are then playing a super-aggressive Lucio can be really, really fun. There's nothing more fun than engaging Roadhog at melee range, booping him around like a giant volleyball and not dying because the Hog's player doesn't know how to use his kit to instantly end you. this is really fun til he calls your bluff and turns around and one shots you dogstile posted:I mean I can anti air a pharah as winston and do it all the time, but its certainly not his niche. wheres Winston's hoverjets, blizz
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May 22, 2017 16:58
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phthalocyanine posted:this is really fun til he calls your bluff and turns around and one shots you Pfffft. Details. quote:wheres Winston's hoverjets, blizz Better yet, where's Bastion's helicopter configuration?
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May 22, 2017 17:21
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McCree takes off into the the sky, giving new meaning to high noon.
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May 22, 2017 17:22
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:Better yet, where's Bastion's helicopter configuration? I'd like this for his ult and only his ult. I'm still really mad about the bastion changes in general, his turret mode feels like poo poo now and is almost useless for any non tank. whenever I play him now I feel like I spend 80% of the match in recon mode just so I can actually kill anything in a reasonable amount of time he was more fun before even when he was largely crap
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May 22, 2017 17:28
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phthalocyanine posted:I'd like this for his ult and only his ult. I'm still really mad about the bastion changes in general, his turret mode feels like poo poo now and is almost useless for any non tank. whenever I play him now I feel like I spend 80% of the match in recon mode just so I can actually kill anything in a reasonable amount of time Completely agree with the ult, but I like new bastion because I can almost play him like a poor man's 76 in recon.I use Q with bastion as little as possible because it kills nothing faster than his turret could with the draw back of giving away your position as loudly as possible. It doesn't even have a fear factor anymore, people just jump the tank before it turns back into something useful. Its a glorified jump button now.
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May 22, 2017 18:05
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the ult can definitely kill things faster than turret because it's all burst, you're just likely to die doing it unless ana is pumping constant darts into you or the red team is really distracted. Turret bastion used to just melt people and now he just feels like he's slowly tickling people away unless they're standing five feet from him, or are the size of a barn. Recon gun is a lot better but it's still hard to justify not just playing soldier unless they're running a lot of shield tanks, which is I guess bastions ~niche~ edit: Oh yeah one weird trick to new bastion if anyone doesn't know, you can still reload by changing form if you fire off a couple of recon rounds before hopping back into turret, and it's still faster than reloading in turret phthalocyanine fucked around with this message at 18:20 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 18:16
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i like the bastion changes but also still never play him because he's still a fragile, fragile boy
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May 22, 2017 18:16
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My favorite counter to Phara will always be using D.Va's jump jet and flying head first into her with the shield up while Phara uses her ultimate.
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May 22, 2017 18:18
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phthalocyanine posted:I'd like this for his ult and only his ult. I'm still really mad about the bastion changes in general, his turret mode feels like poo poo now and is almost useless for any non tank. whenever I play him now I feel like I spend 80% of the match in recon mode just so I can actually kill anything in a reasonable amount of time bastion's dps is still higher in sentry form than recon with headshots by a lot. perfect headshot accuracy would be like 320 and the turret does something like 525 it's not great at sniping tracer or w/e but that's not really what you should be trying to do
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May 22, 2017 18:23
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Manatee Cannon posted:bastion's dps is still higher in sentry form than recon with headshots by a lot. perfect headshot accuracy would be like 320 and the turret does something like 525 the spread means most of those bullets won't hit anyone who isn't a tank and there's a smaller falloff range now so you can't use it like you used to like it's one thing to have 525 DPS in pure numbers but it means nothing if only 1/4 at best of those bullets are actually hitting the pharah floating in the air
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May 22, 2017 18:30
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I've been having success with Bastion in 2100-2500. In fact in a Route 66 match my team defended first round and about half way through a teammate dropped and we ended up holding the point in the last hallway, and I'd like to think it was mostly me switching to Bastion. The key was positioning. I never stayed in the same spot and wrecked the other team a few times by flanking the main path and jumping down behind then into sentry mode. Even if I died I took 2-3 of them with me. On attack I went Bastion and we creamed them, pushing the cart to the end of the route. I really like playing hit and run flanking games as Bastion. I get a good spot, pop sentry, and burn down at least one enemy before they realise I'm there. Then I go back to recon and run away healing and spamming my voice line. I never Iver stay my welcome in a single spot. It's mighty satisfying to play aggressive Bastion and have the other team get tilted about it.
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May 22, 2017 18:45
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Wildtortilla posted:I've been having success with Bastion in 2100-2500. In fact in a Route 66 match my team defended first round and about half way through a teammate dropped and we ended up holding the point in the last hallway, and I'd like to think it was mostly me switching to Bastion. The key was positioning. I never stayed in the same spot and wrecked the other team a few times by flanking the main path and jumping down behind then into sentry mode. Even if I died I took 2-3 of them with me. On attack I went Bastion and we creamed them, pushing the cart to the end of the route. Yeah, I never reload in sentry. Once I empty the mag, I get up and move somewhere else. You die when they learn where you are.
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May 22, 2017 19:03
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phthalocyanine posted:the spread means most of those bullets won't hit anyone who isn't a tank and there's a smaller falloff range now so you can't use it like you used to you will still hit most unless you're trying to snipe with it and, in general, it will do more damage. the damage he does isn't the problem with bastion
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May 22, 2017 19:26
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The inexcusable thing with the Bastion changes is how, after the DR adjustments and taking away its armor, the end result is that they made his ultimate flatly worse for no reason. Like they set out to try and "reinvent" Bastion and pretty much all they did was make him no more usable than he was before, but now his ult is worse than it used to be because it was originally tuned so that the 35% DR from Ironclad would compensate for the armor it used to grant you in rough equivalence, but then they dropped Ironclad to 20% so now his ult is more fragile than before with no compensation, plus you lose the capability to ult as a sort of emergency heal. Like I'm not saying Bastion was in a great place before but they really just dropped the ball with that round of changes in every respect.
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May 22, 2017 19:29
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Manatee Cannon posted:you will still hit most unless you're trying to snipe with it and, in general, it will do more damage. the damage he does isn't the problem with bastion you used to be able to snipe with turret mode, is what I'm complaining here. he was more fun to play when you could melt a team coming far around a corner by surprise, his ability to do that regardless of his raw DPS has been significantly reduced i am by no means complaining that bastions damage is underpowered, just that I find his turret mode a lot less satisfying than I used to e: ^^^ agree wholeheartedly, he's worse off than he was before and I kind of wish they'd just flat out revert the changes but that isn't going to happen phthalocyanine fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 19:29
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then again its bastion and he's always been kind of a one trick pony with his turret form
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May 22, 2017 19:47
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Snazzy Frocks posted:then again its bastion and he's always been kind of a one trick pony with his turret form 
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May 22, 2017 19:53
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an uncommon use of bastions ult: get to weird high ground places
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May 22, 2017 19:56
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http://i.imgur.com/QEIqVJU.gifv
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May 22, 2017 20:04
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the true counter to bastion is to remove your finger from the w key once you are aware there is a bastion
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May 22, 2017 20:05
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protip: shoot the bastion until it dies
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May 22, 2017 20:08
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Cowcaster posted:protip: shoot the bastion until it dies This kills the bastion.
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May 22, 2017 20:30
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Snazzy Frocks posted:then again its bastion and he's always been kind of a one trick pony with his turret form The major issue with Bastion as a character to try and make actually semi-useful through balance changes etc. is that the fundamental gimmick of Bastion, turning yourself into a stationary easy-to-hit target, is kind of a bad one. All the numbers tweaks and things like their whole removing headshots and upping the minigun spread stuff can't really do much to address the fact that fundamentally Bastion's main gimmick places him at a severe disadvantage. Blizzard's attempted rework didn't touch on that and as a result all they didn't really accomplish anything except making Bastion worse somehow which is actually kind of impressive.
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May 22, 2017 20:37
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Cowcaster posted:protip: shoot the bastion until it dies
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May 22, 2017 20:44
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Well, bastion is best now when the other team is already in a fight, the problem is he's still so hated that people will often suicide just to kill Bastion and only Bastion.
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May 22, 2017 20:47
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Kai Tave posted:The major issue with Bastion as a character to try and make actually semi-useful through balance changes etc. is that the fundamental gimmick of Bastion, turning yourself into a stationary easy-to-hit target, is kind of a bad one. All the numbers tweaks and things like their whole removing headshots and upping the minigun spread stuff can't really do much to address the fact that fundamentally Bastion's main gimmick places him at a severe disadvantage. Blizzard's attempted rework didn't touch on that and as a result all they didn't really accomplish anything except making Bastion worse somehow which is actually kind of impressive. If Bastion's had a 0.25s transformation into and out of turret mode he'd crush rear end His turret gimmick isn't fundamentally, inherently bad and can be made strong enough to work.
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May 22, 2017 21:22
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Whenever I'm up against a Bastion, I let it murder my so-called "friends," take a drag from my cigarette, then throw an orb of discord at the Bastion and finish it off.
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May 22, 2017 21:24
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The problem with the gimmick of "become completely immobile in exchange for damage/tankiness" isn't that you can't make it strong enough to be good, it's that it's so extreme on the scale of taking away something from the player(and that something is "movement", which inherently makes gameplay both as and against a character more interesting ) that if you actually give the immobile player enough to make being immobile truely good, it becomes horribly unfun to play against.
LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 21:30 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 21:28
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the funniest thing about this is that bastion with the higher dr was still garbage
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May 22, 2017 21:35
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As much as I think the last thing Overwatch really needs are more shields and barriers all over the place I actually wonder if the original concept of Bastion's turret, where it had a projected front personal barrier but limited traversal arc, wouldn't be better. It would require more situational awareness and good positioning on the Bastion player's behalf in exchange for being rewarded with a certain level of tankiness while in turret form that doesn't require someone else to babysit you while at the same time making getting the drop on/flanking a turreted Bastion more rewarding, especially if you kept the numbers so, for example a single pulse bomb could kill him if you got it behind the shield. The problem of course is that there are already so many shields and barriers in Overwatch that if you give another one to a character you have to consider not only the impact of that particular barrier but the impact it has when stacked behind a Reintangle and hell, maybe an Orisa barrier for good measure, at which point it becomes a nightmare.
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May 22, 2017 21:54
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