|
khysanth posted:annual/lifetime out-of-pocket limits It's my understanding that insurance companies work very hard to circumvent these limits.
|
#
?
May 15, 2017 20:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 12:25 |
|
|
Now that you mention it, I'm surprised the FIRE community hasn't highlighted dual citizenship as a high leverage step towards financial independence more.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2017 06:34
|
|
|
Come on up to Canada. Escape Big Orange and the health care shenanigans all at once. But don't go to Cape Breton (as was lobbied pre-election as a safe haven from Trump) unless you enjoy anti-intellectualism.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2017 16:42
|
|
|
The problem with Canada is that salaries are lower, taxes are higher and the cost of living in major cities is insane. If you have a job good enough to make FI a possibility, you likely have insurance that's good enough that you won't be wiped out by medical costs. I pay something like $50/paycheck and my max out of pocket per year is $3500. Even if I hit my max every year (I don't), I'm still much better off in the US where I can get a $200,000 house in tons of different metro areas and where I make more than I would in Vancouver. If you retire early then I could see some advantage to being in Canada until you are old enough to get medicare, but you won't be allowed to immigrate there if you're not working so it's a moot point.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2017 19:53
|
|
|
OctaviusBeaver posted:the cost of living in major cities is insane Ottawa and Montreal are both cheap as hell and a lot nicer than Toronto. I guess you probably need to speak French to get a good job in either though.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2017 20:31
|
|
|
It seems like a significant segment of FIRE types are FYGM NIMBY motherfuckers so I won't lose much sleep over them getting in the bed they helped make. OctaviusBeaver posted:The problem with Canada is that salaries are lower, taxes are higher and the cost of living in major cities is insane. Counterpoint: Canadian rivers don't catch fire, marijuana will soon be decriminalized, and because most of the really bad racism is reserved for First Nations peoples, other minorities don't have to worry as much about being shot by ignunt-rear end yokels.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2017 20:50
|
|
|
El Mero Mero posted:Now that you mention it, I'm surprised the FIRE community hasn't highlighted dual citizenship as a high leverage step towards financial independence more. I think a lot of FIRE types have a single minded focus. When they get to that goal some might find things are different than what they expected. There is definitely a different type of person that's carrying multiple passports and living in a different country every 3 months. They realise they don't need to be retired to live that lifestyle and the costs can be quite low.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2017 23:15
|
|
|
If you can work remotely you probably don't even need dual citizenship. Heck, some low cost of living countries would probably be happy to have you on a visa as long as you spend money there. I think some people were talking about doing that in Vietnam. They have to renew their visas every year or two but they get a really nice apartment and eat out every day for a few hundred bucks a month. Health insurance probably isn't that big of a deal because you can just pay out of pocket for whatever you need because everything is so cheap.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2017 02:43
|
|
|
The only reason for moving around a bit is so that you don't end up being expected to pay tax in the country you're staying in. Most places you should be able to get at least a 90 day entry. So long as you don't break the rules there shouldn't be any issues.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
Devian666 posted:The only reason for moving around a bit is so that you don't end up being expected to pay tax in the country you're staying in. Most places you should be able to get at least a 90 day entry. So long as you don't break the rules there shouldn't be any issues. Don't you usually have to pay income tax if you are making income?
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2017 03:17
|
|
|
I have a couple friends who claimed EU passports through ancestry as a back up. Alternatively, most countries have an investor visa scheme that gets you residency for typically between half a million to a couple million, Singapore's a good option for this.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2017 03:24
|
|
|
OctaviusBeaver posted:If you can work remotely you probably don't even need dual citizenship. Heck, some low cost of living countries would probably be happy to have you on a visa as long as you spend money there. I think some people were talking about doing that in Vietnam. They have to renew their visas every year or two but they get a really nice apartment and eat out every day for a few hundred bucks a month. Health insurance probably isn't that big of a deal because you can just pay out of pocket for whatever you need because everything is so cheap. I basically did that in a few different countries over the past year, and can confirm Vietnam is especially nice and cheap. So cheap that it moved my financial needle from "occasional remote work" to "flat-out retired."* There's a few options for world-wide-except-the-US health insurance if you travel a lot. If you're at all interested in scuba diving, one of the cheapest comes with getting your PADI instructor's license. * i then un-retired because i am a liberal snowflake trolled by the donald
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2017 03:32
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:Don't you usually have to pay income tax if you are making income? There may be a number of people doing this and not paying income. However, you need to be paying tax in at least one country and have a tax return for that country each year. This goes doubly for US Citizens as the IRS doesn't give a poo poo where you think you are paying tax. Those people without any tax documents for each year are asking for trouble. Each country usually has a set of rules where if you are in the country for a certain number of days then you are required to pay income tax there (ok it's not that simple but you do need to be aware of local tax regulations).
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2017 04:29
|
|
|
OctaviusBeaver posted:The problem with Canada is that salaries are lower, taxes are higher and the cost of living in major cities is insane. If you have a job good enough to make FI a possibility, you likely have insurance that's good enough that you won't be wiped out by medical costs. I pay something like $50/paycheck and my max out of pocket per year is $3500. Even if I hit my max every year (I don't), I'm still much better off in the US where I can get a $200,000 house in tons of different metro areas and where I make more than I would in Vancouver. I disagree with this. I went from 75k a year stateside at 25, with low taxes, no dependents, no debts or bills, low cost of living, etc to Iceland (and a short stint in Germany) with higher taxes, lower income, and more expensive housing as you said, yet..... literally everything about attempting FI has gotten easier for me since moving to Iceland where taxes are even higher than Canada, the cost of living is literally insane, and the salaries are definitely lower. Someone who is FI is going to skip the mostly luxury goods (where the US is largely cheaper) and stick to basic life necessities for the most part (which are cheaper in most social democracies). Here's a quick look comparing the US average to Reykjavik Iceland and San Fran. Reykjavik is only a *smidge* more expensive than the US (in particular check out number 6) http://creativekarlsson.com/statistics/how-expensive-is-iceland/ Depending on your family (got kids? The US is definitely more expensive for you than a nation with subsidized childcare) and health, the US's low taxes and lovely social services actually work against FI. They did for my family anyway. Just the childcare expenses alone more than make up for the tax differences between me and my US peers. One single surgery I had 3 years ago that would have set us back years in the US (happened in a brief 3 month unemployment window tho I guess I'd probably have had COBRA) didn't even register as a blip because of UHC. Single male with no kids working in a tech job? Sure, the US is likely going to be the fastest path to FI. Almost any other career, life, or family makeup? Those shared social services are a lifesaver compared to having to pay individually like one does stateside. El Mero Mero posted:Now that you mention it, I'm surprised the FIRE community hasn't highlighted dual citizenship as a high leverage step towards financial independence more. In addition to the potentially massive healthcare cost savings (also nations with good UHC tend to have much more functional and future proof pensions than social security is looking), having dual citizenship should be considered highly desirable for someone looking to pursue FI, because what happens if your primary nation of residence becomes untenable? Authoritarian government, climate change, food/house prices skyrocketing, social unrest, etc. Having multiple options with how uncertain the future is looking I think should go hand in hand with wanting the security of FI. poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 09:48 on May 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 17, 2017 09:39
|
|
|
poopinmymouth posted:In addition to the potentially massive healthcare cost savings (also nations with good UHC tend to have much more functional and future proof pensions than social security is looking), having dual citizenship should be considered highly desirable for someone looking to pursue FI, because what happens if your primary nation of residence becomes untenable? Authoritarian government, climate change, food/house prices skyrocketing, social unrest, etc. Having multiple options with how uncertain the future is looking I think should go hand in hand with wanting the security of FI. This is a rather important point. One person in a meeting yesterday left Venezuela a couple of decades ago, and he said that people thought he was crazy for leaving when their former dictator took over. There is always a possibility that you may need to flee your country for environmental/disaster, economic or political reasons.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2017 00:49
|
|
|
poopinmymouth posted:Depending on your family (got kids? The US is definitely more expensive for you than a nation with subsidized childcare) and health, the US's low taxes and lovely social services actually work against FI. They did for my family anyway. Just the childcare expenses alone more than make up for the tax differences between me and my US peers. O It's not just income taxes that make a difference - the availability of tax-advantaged accounts that you can access - with only minor hoops to jump through - while you're still young is where the US really makes things easier. Having to pay taxes every year on your dividends and having to worry about capital gains can be a big drag on your portfolio. Canadian TFSAs and British ISAs are actually better, but the IRS doesn't recognize the tax benefits. Plus, if you're a US person, investing in foreign mutual funds is a massive headache, so you better get used to picking individual stocks. The housing cost to salary ratio is also massively skewed in pretty much any developed country outside of the US. Furthermore, salaries for the types of professions that attract FIRE types are disproportionately lower in other countries. The US sucks for a lot of people, but for the rich fatcats who can consider FIRE, it's probably the best place on Earth. pr0zac posted:Ottawa and Montreal are both cheap as hell and a lot nicer than Toronto. I guess you probably need to speak French to get a good job in either though. They are cheap compared to Toronto or Vancouver. They are both extremely expensive compared to most of the US outside of major metro areas in the Northeast and West Coat. Adjusted for salaries, they're more expensive than pretty much anywhere in the US.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2017 19:30
|
|
|
Posting to get an opinion of what to do with my (fortunate) financial situation. I'm 30 and have 250k and oh god what do I do so I don't squander this situation. I live in a coastal city and work in a tech job. My income has gone from ~95k five years ago to something like 225k this year, and next year will be (or is projected to be) a little bit higher. I haven't done a great job of saving, but I also haven't done a terrible job of it either. I have no plans for kids, and I don't really want to buy a house where I currently live. I prefer some flexibility for now and I still want to do things like move around, live abroad for a few months (maybe without a job!), and generally reach FI at some point in the foreseeable future. My take home pay is now ~7600 a month after a max 401k contribution. After employer matches, I invest 21k a year pre-tax in the Vanguard Target Retirement Trust Plus. I also save an additional 1500 a month post tax, which goes into a taxable account that is 100% the vanguard total stock market fund. I also am compensated in restricted stock, which is paid out to me twice a year, and I am now saving all of that money in my taxable account. My first vest was 30k after taxes this year, and I should have a relatively similar amount of money hitting near the end of the year. My general situation is my Vanguard account is ~180k, with ~55k of that being taxable. 10k of the taxable account is cash. I also have a 60k emergency fund in cash, which is probably way overkill (is it?). No student loans or consumer debt (besides a dumb car lease). I'm probably pretty bad with money aside from my commitment to saving my RSU proceeds and that ~3k a month between my 401k and my after tax. My expenses are ~1700 for rent/utilities, ~700 a month for a sports car lease that is obviously too expensive, ~90 a month for car/renter/1 mil in umbrella insurance, and then other recurring stuff is basically phone ($60), gym ($40), parking ($80), donations ($100). I have no idea what I spend on clothing, food, or travel, and clearly it's a lot. Based on the numbers here, it seems I blow probably something like 3k a month just doing/eating/buying things. The answer here could be the equivalent of "stop buying candles", but what else exactly should I be doing? Just cut down extra spending and put another 1.5k into my taxable account? How much cash do I need? Am I blowing it by not buying a house? I could use some context, motivation, and direction so that I don't keep spending too much on candles.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2017 02:44
|
|
|
Max an IRA before doing unmatched 401k. Does your company offer an after tax 401k? You could do that an immediately roll every contribution into a Roth. Sell any company stock as soon as you can, otherwise the company having a lovely year might mean your job/bonus goes away *and* your portfolio sinks. (Be mindful of long vs short term capital gains, but honestly I forget how it works with RSUs - I think that only applies to the stock growth and not the base price.) Lol ditching your 700/month lease is an obvious improvement but I think you know that. I like mint.com for expense tracking - it's not amazing but it does the job - you gotta figure out where the money goes. Figuring out which expenses are for things you truly value vs conveniences is a key part of this. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 06:21 on May 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 22, 2017 02:55
|
|
|
First, I second what Jeffery says, although you can already easily reach annual contribution limits for 401k and roth, with matching just being gravy. And please start tracking what you spend. Second, you can relax. I've been where you are, you're well on track, and macroeconomic forces have chosen these to be very fat years for tech idiots like us. 60k is almost definitely more than you need in cash. Imagine you had a horribly expensive emergency and really, really needed money: you'd start withdrawing from your unprivileged vanguard fund. Look up how that works, and see how long it'd take for the money to reach you. It's probably something like 2 weeks. Keeping 1-3 month's normal expenses in cash is already slightly overkill once you have that much after-tax investment. Is that 1500 after-tax investment set up to be deducted from your paycheck and deposited automatically by your employer? If not, get on that. After which, increase the amount you're saving. Sounds like you can afford to double it, for starters. Can't spend money that you don't see. pointatforehead.png I really, really don't want to tell you what to do about something this personal, but since you mentioned donations: we can afford to give more than $100 a month. I started doing %10 of my income, and it's never held my rich moron rear end back. Especially when I get it all back at tax time. Also where do you work that you can get that salary and only pay $1700 in rent, god drat, I could go for that. Or at least tell us where you live; it might help answer the question about rent vs. buy.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2017 04:30
|
|
|
81k posted:Posting to get an opinion of what to do with my (fortunate) financial situation. I'm 30 and have 250k and oh god what do I do so I don't squander this situation. You may want to consider starting your own thread in BFC. This thread doesn't get a lot of traffic compared to some others. New threads in BFC are always Very GoodTM.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2017 05:32
|
|
|
If you want to go through examining where your money is really going then a thread would be worthwhile for specific advice. I have to admit it's easy to fall into the trap of spending for lifestyle, and there's plenty of people who can help with that. You don't even have to target FI to get huge improvements.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2017 05:49
|
|
|
If you do start a New thread please link it here for the lazy
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2017 06:18
|
|
|
lol he doesn't need a new thread though it would be like the saddest financial renovation thread ever he's all assets and earnings! Where's the fun in that? Actual Advice You should be holding less cash. You're 30 years old making a king's ransom in salary, $700 a month for your car is more money than you should spend if you want to be FIRE at 40, but don't beat yourself up too much. Use something like financier, YNAB or Mint to track your spending, and things will pretty quickly clarify. Good luck, and have fun.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2017 13:05
|
|
|
ChipNDip posted:The US sucks for a lot of people, but for the rich fatcats who can consider FIRE, it's probably the best place on Earth. I'm not armchair theorizing, I've literally lived in California and now Germany + Iceland, and I'm a high paid tech worker, literally your example group. (assuming you're not talking about literal millionaires but rather well paid normos) My attempts at FI have been much more effective here in Iceland, so I'll just post my disagreement based on my lived experience, but don't really want to argue it.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2017 16:36
|
|
|
81k posted:I also have a 60k emergency fund in cash, which is probably way overkill (is it?). It's probably not a bad idea to have a large emergency fund if your don't have a good handle on where your money is going every month. Also good to have a large e-fund if your job is in a cyclical industry which is currently in a boom phase.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2017 17:12
|
|
|
poopinmymouth posted:I'm not armchair theorizing, I've literally lived in California and now Germany + Iceland, and I'm a high paid tech worker, literally your example group. (assuming you're not talking about literal millionaires but rather well paid normos) What's it like living in Iceland, by the way? I've always assumed it'd either be awesome or (maybe after 6 months or so) boring as gently caress. How're you enjoying it? 
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2017 18:08
|
|
|
Sundae posted:What's it like living in Iceland, by the way? I've always assumed it'd either be awesome or (maybe after 6 months or so) boring as gently caress. How're you enjoying it? The only big downsides are the weather. I'm in a personal rut with my social circle, but I think it's more related to me and my family's current situation (first gay couple to have a child through surrogacy here, we don't exactly fit into many groups in a nation of 320k). As my son gets older I expect it to improve. Weather wise it's just almost always cold, rainy, or snowy. Right now we've had about 5 days in a row of sunny warm weather and my brain is so high on endorphin from the lack of it previously I would definitely love more sun. And while our political problems are envious to me as a dual american, they're still lovely to live under. We have widening inequality, right wing forces are trying to destroy our UHC and great public schools, housing costs are rising like crazy and no one is willing to do anything about it. Tourism is eroding the natural wonders as we watch, because again, our politicians don't even know what the word "sustainable" means. And I could go on. But ultimately my life has improved in every measurable way. Zero crime, perfect gay rights, I never worry about my son being shot at school, our police are unarmed, none of my taxes fund a military or immoral wars(we have none and don't want one), I was able to marry, buy a house and have a child - things I didn't even consider stateside. I have UHC and a pension that's likely to be around at 70 (I'm 35 now). Ridiculously affordable and high quality childcare. But the #1 thing I love about Iceland is my Icelandic husband, and the family and life we've built. It's an awesome place though. Beautiful nature wherever you look, oceans, mountains, waterfalls, glacier lagoons. 25 vacation days a year, member of the EEA (so we can move and work anywhere in the EU), not too far from the states to fly and visit my relatives or them us, vibrant arts and music scene. Moving here is also what finally pushed me into bilingualism. I'm terrible with languages or anything rule based (artist here with ADD) so full immersion was pretty much my only path to learning a second one. I'd say I'm fluent with grammar problems at this point, but it feels incredibly satisfying to know I learned a new language as an adult and don't fit into the "monolingual anglophile" box anymore. poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 11:09 on May 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 11:07
|
|
|
poopinmymouth posted:The only big downsides are the weather. I'm in a personal rut with my social circle, but I think it's more related to me and my family's current situation (first gay couple to have a child through surrogacy here, we don't exactly fit into many groups in a nation of 320k). As my son gets older I expect it to improve. Weather wise it's just almost always cold, rainy, or snowy. Right now we've had about 5 days in a row of sunny warm weather and my brain is so high on endorphin from the lack of it previously I would definitely love more sun. That's great and all, but other than health/child care, I don't see how any of that helps you FI more quickly than a massive US salary. Poking around at salaries, it looks like making over $150k is very rare in Iceland. Do you see people retired in their 30's/40's in Iceland?
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 11:52
|
|
|
tbf, healthcare, childcare, and education for your family including kids adds up pretty quickly. that's easily a million bucks in present value for two kids.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 12:01
|
|
|
Not only does UHC offer a high monetary value, but it also frees people up from job lock
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 13:28
|
|
|
*edit* nevermind. I said I wasn't going to debate and got dragged in anyway. Carry on.
poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 15:15 on May 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 15:06
|
|
|
baquerd posted:That's great and all, but other than health/child care, I don't see how any of that helps you FI more quickly than a massive US salary. Poking around at salaries, it looks like making over $150k is very rare in Iceland. Do you see people retired in their 30's/40's in Iceland? Unsurprisingly income redistribution policies are good for most people and bad for the top percentiles of earners, in my mind it is a very trivial observation that UHC and state subsidized childcare are worth much more than what most people pay for them
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:Unsurprisingly income redistribution policies are good for most people and bad for the top percentiles of earners, in my mind it is a very trivial observation that UHC and state subsidized childcare are worth much more than what most people pay for them Even top percentile earners are benefited because good social policies aren't zero-sum.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 16:23
|
|
|
Also it is hard to put a price on not getting guillotined
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 16:32
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:Also it is hard to put a price on not getting guillotined On the other hand, it's way cheaper than a mortgage or rent. Pay some prole to make sure that your grave is kept clean and the carrying costs are otherwise nil! 
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 02:21
|
|
|
But guys those countries with uhc and like 4 months off every year have to pay $450 for a Nintendo omg NOT worth it
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 02:23
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:tbf, healthcare, childcare, and education for your family including kids adds up pretty quickly. I agree it's a lot of money. If people are in the 20% of high earners in the US that can buy you a lot of financial instruments to get you to FI quickly. Higher costs but higher income can work well. I'm not sure how income taxes compare between Iceland and the US.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 04:37
|
|
|
Already linked it, but from here: http://creativekarlsson.com/statistics/how-expensive-is-iceland/ 13 comparisons between Reykjavik, San Francisco and the rest of the USA 1 Cost of living, Singles: Reykjavik is 5.3% more expensive than San Francisco and 33% more expensive than an average small city in the US 2 Cost of living, Family of Four: Reykjavik is 4.6% less expensive than San Francisco but 8.2% more expensive than an average small city in the US 3 Income: Income in Reykjavik is 7% higher than the median US income, but 26% less than the San Francisco median income 3 Housing Cost: Reykjavik has the lowest housing cost, 66% lower than San Francisco and pretty much on par with the US average (0.4% lower) 4 House Prices: Reykjavik is 32% less expensive than San Francisco but 205% more expensive than the US median (my family avoided this by sheer luck. We bought our house during the post 2008 housing crash for a song) 5 Mortgage Payments: Taking a loan in Reykjavik for the house in step 4 is 2.6% more expensive than in San Francisco and 244% more expensive than on average in the US (easily avoided by paying down early, which we did, though one could pay down a US mortgage early too) 6 Income Taxes: Reykjavik has a heavier tax burden but it is unclear if you are getting a better deal in Reykjavik than the US considering the small difference and the services you get for your taxes. No percentages because it varies by state. (services including generous paternity pay at the state level, UHC, subsidized childcare and diapers, better UI, no waste on military) 7 Gasoline prices: Gas in Reykjavik is 229% more expensive than the average US gas price, 124% more expensive than the average San Francisco price 8 Dining: Reykjavik is 35% less expensive than San Francisco but 30% more expensive than the US average 9 Alcohol prices: Reykjavik is a very expensive place to buy booze in, 115% more expensive than San Francisco, 143% more expensive than the US average 10 Groceries: Reykjavik is a bit pricey, but still 14% less expensive than San Francisco, but 30% more expensive than the US average 10 Childcare: Reykjavik is by far the least expensive option, whopping 84% less expensive than San Francisco and 73% less expensive than the US average 11 Health care costs: Welfare Reykjavik wins the prize, 90% less expensive than San Francisco and 87% less expensive than the US average 12 Employment: Reykjavik has the lowest total unemployment, 71% less than the US average and 39% less than San Francisco 13 Income Equality: Reykjavik is much more egalitarian than San Francisco and considerably more egalitarian than the US average AND this doesn't include university. My husband never had any university debt, despite earning a bachelors in computer science from one of the largest universities here. Whereas I had 43k in debt from 1.5 years of school that we only paid off 2 years ago. Nor does it mention that we get 24 paid vacation days a year versus zero in the USA (all vacation policies are voluntary stateside). I'm not trying to say FI is impossible in the USA, just that the general rule seems to be the smaller and younger your family unit (optimal being just a single dude in his 20s) in the USA, the easier it is, and the larger and older your family size, a generous social democracy takes most of those financial burdens away that limit the same families stateside. And this is *just* running the numbers, completely divorcing any ideas of fairness, equality, satisfaction of living in a safe and moral society, etc. It seems to me that the whole push for FIRE doesn't really exist here because most jobs have great benefits, our pension system is largely functional and livable (especially when compared to SS), and people don't zombie walk in a haze that makes them hate their life and strive for financial freedom from the man. Sure it still exists, but if you have a nice job and your boss pays and treats you well, your job allows for building a family, eh, working til 65 isn't such torture as when you despise every moment. poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 16:16 on May 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 10:52
|
|
|
Childcare costs approach zero as long as you keep removing adults from the room.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 16:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 12:25 |
|
|
it's reason mag but it has a point http://reason.com/blog/2017/05/23/california-single-payer-health-care-cost people really like the idea of single payer but as soon as you put a $ figure a lot of them don't want to actually pay for it. From that iceland comparison article, income tax is 13.4% more than San Francisco so yeah it's checks out as entirely possible you just need to get people willing to actually vote for it, which of course is the trick, since you have to basically double the state budget to pay for it
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2017 17:07
|
|
