|
It would appear that the government of British Columbia has been turning a blind eye to the annual allowable cut for our forest harvesting, and deliberately using tree counts which are twenty years old. The province is now, as a result, a clear-cut the likes of which has never been seen before. https://www.desmog.ca/2017/05/12/civil-suit-alleges-b-c-blacklisting-forestry-consultant-who-warned-timber-overcutting-faulty-data This comes simultaneous with replanting being at record lows, with many companies not bothering to reseed their cutblocks once the trees are harvested. In addition to the impact of the pine beetle, etc. Finally, because we had winter here in BC until May on the coast this year, the planting season has been cut in half and many cutblocks will see the seedlings rot in reefer trucks rather than hit the ground. Whether the playing firms can recover from that is questionable. If you load up Google Earth and switch the overlay from 2002 to 2010 in BC, the cutblocks look like explosive cancer. 
Rime fucked around with this message at 00:37 on May 23, 2017 |
#
?
May 23, 2017 00:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 05:49 |
|
|
Huzanko posted:If it's not hopeless, that's great, but if we have 10 years to do anything about this, it is very much hopeless. I don't know enough about the situation to know what's true and what's hyperbole. It depends very much on where in the world you are. For first worlders, impacts are primarily going to be economic. We build distillation plants to make sure we have water so that we have water security and if necessary for food as well. Food and water will be more expensive but we will just foot that bill, obviously. The third worlders are just hosed. If you cannot afford the additional expenses of water and food, well, you do what you need to do to get those things, or die. It's going to get very bad. The huge wild card for first worlders is the impact of climate refugees. I recommend New Zealand.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 01:01
|
|
|
Wanderer posted:Exactly. There are too many collapseniks in the discussion right now who are either using this as their depression Viagra or who are looking forward to a theoretical end of civilization. It's not going to be as straightforward as that. Yeah, although I'll admit that I think this is a topic where there's a really fine line between realism and pessimism. Lots of people understandably have difficulty accepting that maybe this is going to affect their lives and maybe that's unavoidable, but that doesn't mean that literally nothing matters or that we can't at least try to mitigate the effects. This is a problem where the damage is basically unbounded on the upper end, so it can always be worse and it's always going to be worthwhile to at least try to act in whatever small way you can.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 01:10
|
|
|
BattleMoose posted:It depends very much on where in the world you are. If you're poor, anywhere in the world, you're hosed. Wherever you are in the developed world may not collapse into anarchy, but the economy is going to poo poo and social security nets will buckle. Being poor also means you won't have the mobility to get away from local disasters. If you're well-off then it's fine, anything that comes your way is livable as long as you're not stupid. RE wildcards, there will also be the impact of these stressors in already tense situations, like India v Pakistan, rise of nationalism and reduction of civil liberties, the finger pointing between political actors with stockpiles of nuclear weapons, etc.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 01:17
|
|
|
Conspiratiorist posted:If you're poor, anywhere in the world, you're hosed. Wherever you are in the developed world may not collapse into anarchy, but the economy is going to poo poo and social security nets will buckle. Being poor also means you won't have the mobility to get away from local disasters. Most first world countries could easily absorb the costs of increased water/food. Even if the costs are *huge*, it can be afforded. The USA is fairly unique in the first world in terms of making GBS threads on poor people. Everywhere else in the first world (Not the USA), you are extremely unlikely to starve, thirst, die of exposure, be a casualty of war or die due to preventable communicable diseases such as typhoid, dysentery or cholera and others.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 01:28
|
|
|
On the bright side, Malaria may reach Texas and much of greater Texarkana. So there's that!
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 01:37
|
|
|
BattleMoose posted:Most first world countries could easily absorb the costs of increased water/food. Even if the costs are *huge*, it can be afforded. The USA is fairly unique in the first world in terms of making GBS threads on poor people. A burp of refugees into Europe has caused a massive increase in right wing parties, what do you think will happen when it's, oh, 100x that?
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
2030 Up to 18 percent of the world’s coral reefs will likely be lost as a result of climate change and other environmental stresses. In Asian coastal waters, the coral loss could reach 30 percent. (IPCC) Ohhh that's a good one.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 01:40
|
|
|
Register people to vote. There are people with the political will to act, they're just not in power. If you think individual action is pointless the only reasonable action is political. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 01:52 on May 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 01:47
|
|
|
Rime posted:It would appear that the government of British Columbia has been turning a blind eye to the annual allowable cut for our forest harvesting, and deliberately using tree counts which are twenty years old. The province is now, as a result, a clear-cut the likes of which has never been seen before. Ugh. Thanks a lot Canada.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 02:16
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Register people to vote. There are people with the political will to act, they're just not in power. lol. voting? vote for who? clinton or trump? Trudeau, Harper or Muclair? Even if you get someone like Corbyn winning, there's decades worth of institutions willing to stymie any political progress. Out of all things voting has to be the most useless.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 02:21
|
|
|
The time to vote was over 16 years ago, on November 8, 2000. That was the last chance voting had at making any real difference in the world with regard to climate change. Even if Bernie Sanders was elected it wouldn't matter now, it's far far too late.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 02:43
|
|
|
BattleMoose posted:Most first world countries could easily absorb the costs of increased water/food. Even if the costs are *huge*, it can be afforded. The USA is fairly unique in the first world in terms of making GBS threads on poor people. You probably won't starve in the US either. The real problem if you're poor (or, honestly, middle income) is likely to come from knock on effects. Housing markets in coastal areas failing is not going to be great, and that's without even considering the effects of abandoning some particularly at-risk coastal communities entirely. Throw in some droughts here and there and you've got a recipe for a lot of people moving around, a lot of previously economically productive areas failing, and just a lot of pain in general. It'll probably be fine in the long run as businesses and people move inland, but it's the kind of thing that's not going to be fun to live through. I think what legitimately scares me is the sense that this is all going to be happening while we're also feeling the effects of unrelated structural economic issues. I'm not worried about the world ending, but I think our political systems are going to be under a lot of stress over the next few decades.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 02:51
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:Sorry, but I'm still missing some steps. How is this a constraint on solar? Do the Chinese refuse to sell for solar development? It's not, as far as I know (maybe there is some in the inverters?). It'd be a drag on wind turbine development, with rare earth magnets and some electronics.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 02:58
|
|
|
Paradoxish posted:I think what legitimately scares me is the sense that this is all going to be happening while we're also feeling the effects of unrelated structural economic issues. I'm not worried about the world ending, but I think our political systems are going to be under a lot of stress over the next few decades. What legitimately scares me is the complete and utter desperate situation the developing world will be. Their worlds will end. Largely because of climate change induced by the first world. And the first world will be like, "Sorry nope, we are too busy moving our cities inland. Its a bit rough for us at the moment. Our food is way more expensive than it used to be and families are struggling to own more than 1 car at the moment. Good luck with that starvation and typhoid though!"
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 02:59
|
|
|
BattleMoose posted:What legitimately scares me is the complete and utter desperate situation the developing world will be. Their worlds will end. Largely because of climate change induced by the first world. And the reality is that you're not going to get through to most people by framing this as a problem for the developing world. We've been loving over developing nations for as long as the term "developing nations" has been around, so what makes you think that climate change is finally going to spur people into giving a poo poo?
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 03:07
|
|
|
Paradoxish posted:We've been loving over developing nations for as long as the term "developing nations" has been around, so what makes you think that climate change is finally going to spur people into giving a poo poo? I don't. I think we are going to poo poo all over them until they are mostly all dead. I am one of the no hopers, in case I haven't already given that way. I can still be scared of something that I think will almost certainly happen. EDIT: There really wasn't anything in my previous post to suggest I actually thought the first world would give a poo poo.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 03:10
|
|
|
I don't think the developing world needs people like you to masturbate mournfully about how dire their life will be under AGC.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 03:27
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:I don't think the developing world needs people like you to masturbate mournfully about how dire their life will be under AGC. What the gently caress? Seriously, how can you possibly think I am taking any pleasure in this? Not a rhetorical question.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 03:34
|
|
|
Paradoxish posted:Yeah, although I'll admit that I think this is a topic where there's a really fine line between realism and pessimism. Lots of people understandably have difficulty accepting that maybe this is going to affect their lives and maybe that's unavoidable, but that doesn't mean that literally nothing matters or that we can't at least try to mitigate the effects. This is a problem where the damage is basically unbounded on the upper end, so it can always be worse and it's always going to be worthwhile to at least try to act in whatever small way you can. For me I draw the line where I can see real scientific evidence. For example when Minge Binge say he cannot imagine a future in which savings will be useful, a future in which the present economy has changed so drastically as to be unrecognizable, but does not present any sort of evidence based reasoning through which he came to these conclusions, I can safely conclude that his advice to avoid saving is not grounded in any kind of rational consideration of the real economic impacts of climate change. We do not know how bad it might get, which is reason to be terribly cautious, but assuming things will necessarily be as bad as we can possibly imagine is just as absurd as the rosiest of climate denier bullshit.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 04:03
|
|
|
ChairMaster posted:The time to vote was over 16 years ago, on November 8, 2000. That was the last chance voting had at making any real difference in the world with regard to climate change. Even if Bernie Sanders was elected it wouldn't matter now, it's far far too late. Too late for what, specifically? You should try and think about the impacts of climate change as actual discrete phenomena as real climate scientists do, and think of what specific impacts you are expecting and their likelyhood. Probably you will find there's a lot of difference that might be made, and we barely know what the hell they are let alone that it's too late.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 04:11
|
|
|
Most of our understanding boils down to "Variance is increasing hella fast." If you think you can glean a concrete conclusion of certain doom out of that, either you're an idiot or you have a lot more computing power than climatologists do.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 04:12
|
|
|
MiddleOne posted:It's cool that this is still progressing exactly like my last Fate of the World play-through. Art imitating life or life imitating art? You decide! Go on... spoil it for us!
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 04:14
|
|
|
Rastor posted:Good news, everyone! A new source of fossil fuels is being unlocked - methane hydrates! Rime posted:It would appear that the government of British Columbia has been turning a blind eye to the annual allowable cut for our forest harvesting, and deliberately using tree counts which are twenty years old. The province is now, as a result, a clear-cut the likes of which has never been seen before.  If any intelligent beings come after us and find out what happened, they are going to laugh at how incredibly greedy and stupid we were.ChairMaster posted:The time to vote was over 16 years ago, on November 8, 2000. That was the last chance voting had at making any real difference in the world with regard to climate change. Even if Bernie Sanders was elected it wouldn't matter now, it's far far too late. Honestly, no, the time to vote was back in the 70s and 80s before Third Wayism strangled any hope for real reform and inevitably led to the choice we have today between ethno-fascism and corporate neoliberals
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 04:16
|
|
|
BattleMoose posted:What the gently caress? Seriously, how can you possibly think I am taking any pleasure in this? Not a rhetorical question. Sometimes the relentless pessimism in this thread gets old. But nothing can really be done, because the situation is truly terrible. Some posters simply scroll past the depressing posts, but others need to feel self-righteous so they accuse all the people making the depressing posts of getting off on dying Third World peasants. tl;dr: this thread has degenerated into endless "Wow, this is really hosed up, huh?" "Yup, here's a new hosed up thing" which is not really discussion, so only shitposting is left. I'm guilty of this too in other threads
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 04:35
|
|
|
People like Bill Gates and Richard Branson have pledged to find solutions to climate change. What's the point of me doing anything? Anything I can do, they can do better - including political activism. And if they aren't actually going to find any solutions, what hope do we have? Edit: i guess my point is, there are people out there who actually wield enough power to actually make a difference, leaders who must take charge before anything done by an insignificant consumer like me makes a difference. TheBlackVegetable fucked around with this message at 05:10 on May 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 05:02
|
|
|
TheBlackVegetable posted:People like Bill Gates and Richard Branson have pledged to find solutions to climate change. What's the point of me doing anything? Anything I can do, they can do better - including political activism. They have their platform. You have yours. Refusing to do anything about the problem because somebody else is theoretically poised to do it better is the grass-roots equivalent of a politician who refuses to back a bill that funds a partial solution because it isn't the full solution. You're just finding reasons not to do something that you know is a good thing. It's depressive efficiency. Keep your backyard clean. Organize in your area, streamline your life, try to get your local government involved in smart common-sense climate policy (in fact, involvement with local government is a good place to start for any progressive agenda), and talk to your friends and family about your concerns. Waiting for this to get fixed from the top down is part of what got us into this mess.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 05:12
|
|
|
Notorious R.I.M. posted:Most of our understanding boils down to "Variance is increasing hella fast." If you think you can glean a concrete conclusion of certain doom out of that, either you're an idiot or you have a lot more computing power than climatologists do. Our understanding in many places is a lot more specific than "Variance is increasing hella fast" Climatologists can and have made specific and concrete conclusions on how some aspects of our climate is changing. For some areas of the world these are "Permanent reductions in precipitation of this amount". #### You don't even need a high school education to make the leap of, people are super dependent on precipitation and when there isn't rain, there will be problems. (Big problems)
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 05:26
|
|
|
Wanderer posted:They have their platform. You have yours. None of that will actually make any difference though. If the leaders won't lead, we're screwed no matter what the little people do.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 05:28
|
|
|
FourLeaf posted:ethno-fascism
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 05:31
|
|
|
Is there a thread for discussing peer-reviewed publications on climate change?
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 05:44
|
|
|
TheBlackVegetable posted:None of that will actually make any difference though. If the leaders won't lead, we're screwed no matter what the little people do. You're trying to justify your own paralysis. If you're sad that nothing is being done, then do something. Even if you never manage to make an impact on mainstream culture, you can still do a great deal to affect your family, your community, and your city. Run for local office, look into starting a green business, plant a tree, clean up litter, cut trash out of your life as much as you can, dig a compost heap, think about a career change, whatever. I know the whole thing looks like an immovable monolith, but that's what organization is for: it's a force multiplier, and the greater society is never quite as hard to change as people would like you to think it is. Remember, what we think of as the modern status quo is a patchwork quilt of relatively recent technologies and behaviors. Hell, I'm 38, and there's stuff I use every day that would be absolute science fiction to my 18-year-old self. Change moves at its own rate. In the end, though, doing something will always be preferable to doing nothing. "It's too late to do anything/I can't do anything myself" is just another form of denialism.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 05:49
|
|
|
Potato Salad posted:Is there a thread for discussing peer-reviewed publications on climate change? You could create one in , Ask / Tell › Science, Academics and Languages, most appropriate place I think. I would get involved.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 05:54
|
|
|
TheBlackVegetable posted:None of that will actually make any difference though. If the leaders won't lead, we're screwed no matter what the little people do. Congratulations on justifying your own inaction.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 05:54
|
|
|
MrMojok posted:Go on... spoil it for us! If you fail to run up the tally on renewable's, next-gen nuclear power or third-gen bio-fuel when hitting peak Uranium (which the game sketches around 2050-2070 depending on your policies) then it's only a matter of time until methane clathrate mining either through pollution or unintended methane leaks triggers the clathrate gun. At this point large swaths of the worlds agriculture has already failed due to oil shortages and droughts and with the ramping releases of greenhouse gases you're likely screwed within a few decades. At this point the only thing that is slowing down emissions is the hundreds of millions of deaths from starvation and civil strife that will follow. This game could be considered pessimistic in its projections at its release, not so much anymore. 
MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 06:01 on May 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 05:59
|
|
|
Burt Buckle posted:Congratulations on justifying your own inaction. I'm not inactive - I drive to work, eat meat, have air conditioning, fly to travel, use the internet, have a family, live in the first world. I'm highly active, so active I have no time for much else really - same as hundreds of millions if not billions of other people. And if I was to reduce my carbon footprint enough to (not even) matter, it wouldn't be long till I was out on the street - and someone else took my place. Until this rat race is redirected into global concerted action on climate change by the people with the actual power to do so, there's nothing meaningful to be done.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 06:07
|
|
|
Potato Salad posted:Is there a thread for discussing peer-reviewed publications on climate change? It would make a nice change from the denialism and fear mongering in here of we did so.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 06:07
|
|
|
Rime posted:It would make a nice change from the denialism and fear mongering in here of we did so. One paper I read freaked me out so much I had to just stop, and take a nap. I am not sure what you are expecting but there is some seriously depressing stuff in the peer reviewed literature.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 06:15
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:As opposed to what? Non-nationalist fascism? I've actually met self-proclaimed fascists online who got really offended whenever you implied nationalism = racism. Basically trying to claim if non-whites conform to the dominant culture and are loyal they'll accept them, so they're "not racist". Making the distinction seemed worthwhile to emphasize the alt-right people (in the previous post) really do love their ethnic separatism. They want to go back to some faux-1950s nostalgia world where they won't have to interact with non-whites ever; even if you tried to assimilate they don't want you. FourLeaf fucked around with this message at 06:49 on May 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 06:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 05:49 |
|
|
TheBlackVegetable posted:I'm not inactive - I drive to work, eat meat, have air conditioning, fly to travel, use the internet, have a family, live in the first world. I'm highly active, so active I have no time for much else really - same as hundreds of millions if not billions of other people. And if I was to reduce my carbon footprint enough to (not even) matter, it wouldn't be long till I was out on the street - and someone else took my place. Until this rat race is redirected into global concerted action on climate change by the people with the actual power to do so, there's nothing meaningful to be done. Stop eating meat, take the bus, open the window, kill your family. Just kidding about killing your family. I see people saying individual actions don't matter and only political action matters, then I see people saying voting doesn't matter because it's too late. I'm pretty certain people will continue to convince themselves that they are helpless because actually doing anything is hard.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2017 06:38
|
|