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I'd go with you on a lot of that except for the marines in Aliens are more caricatures than characters, the audience knows David is a "killer"--Oram doesn't, and you're just wrong if you don't think Tennessee's immolating wife crawling out of the lander wasn't a great addition.  I mean it just cranks up the "this is super hosed up" dial in and of itself, but then tack on the fact that the woman who just recently watched her husband burn to death in front of her literally buries the captain's head in the sand so he doesn't have to see it because it might be his wife--and its not even her, its Daniels' good friend. I agree with a bunch of people here, and its something I said to my wife when we left the theater, that if they could have kept up the mojo of they had going for the lander sequence throughout the film it would have been awesome. I also think the whole David/Walter thing could have been handled better by making a few changes:
Everything else plays out the same more or less, except as "Walter" is helping them get to the ship and they come across "David's" face-hugged body who's chest cavity APPEARS to be burst open from the inside out. What actually happened was after David disabled Walter, he held Walter's face over the egg, got him facehugged, and then extracted the alien embryos that have now merged with "synthetic DNA" from the host. He "freezes" them then smuggles them on the ship the same way he does the movie, except instead of facehugger eggs they are alien embryos that even look biomechanical when we see them at the end--setting up the look in Alien and reinforcing a subtle hint that something was up for the initiated viewer (David is not dead but is pretending to be Walter) because both full-size xenos we see at the end of Covenant are 100% biological and from human hosts.
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May 23, 2017 19:07
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) David's mental state the way he already does in the film trying to get a read on him. 
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Why is every Alien special edition better than the theatrical? Why not cut it right the first time?
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May 23, 2017 19:10
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Oh boy.
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May 23, 2017 19:11
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Covok posted:Why is every Alien special edition better than the theatrical? Why not cut it right the first time? Only Alien 3 is better than the theatrical.
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May 23, 2017 19:13
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CelticPredator posted:Only Alien 3 is better than the theatrical. I am currently watching the theatrical release of Aliens because that's what Amazon Prime gives you and I'd say it's pretty weaker than the Special Edition.
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May 23, 2017 19:14
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Covok posted:I am currently watching the theatrical release of Aliens because that's what Amazon Prime gives you and I'd say it's pretty weaker than the Special Edition. The original theatrical cut has better pacing and removes scenes that are strictly unnecessary and detract from the whole. The addition of pre-Marine colony content tends to drag it down and removes tension from scenes for a first-time viewer. The special edition is better for a rewatch but for a first-time viewer the theatrical cut flows better.
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May 23, 2017 19:17
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ImpAtom posted:The original theatrical cut has better pacing and removes scenes that are strictly unnecessary and detract from the whole. The addition of pre-Marine colony content tends to drag it down and removes tension from scenes for a first-time viewer. The special edition is better for a rewatch but for a first-time viewer the theatrical cut flows better. I agree with this assertion. Seems well-thought out and makes sense. Encapsulates the situation very well.
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May 23, 2017 19:19
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So the neomorph on the lander, the first one that's born, does it survive the 'splosion?
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May 23, 2017 19:24
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ImpAtom posted:The original theatrical cut has better pacing and removes scenes that are strictly unnecessary and detract from the whole. The addition of pre-Marine colony content tends to drag it down and removes tension from scenes for a first-time viewer. The special edition is better for a rewatch but for a first-time viewer the theatrical cut flows better. I will never understand this myself. Like I saw Aliens in theaters and no one on earth was thinking "oh yeah they haven't shown any Aliens yet, I guess Burke's probably right and it's just a downed transmitter even though the movie is called Aliens and this is the footage that made me go to see it." I actually prefer the pre-Marine colony scene being there because it drives home the inherent maliciousness of corporations in an overkill way that is pure Cameron but also perfect for the series as a whole. You get a glimpse of the society that Burke happily, proudly, and immediately destroyed to make sure he gets a bigger share without a second thought. It makes those last scenes with Burke much stronger. At the same time, the theatrical version does flow better overall. I think we all have ideal versions in our mind between the two iterations of each of these four movies that have bits of each.
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May 23, 2017 19:24
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On top of that I would have cut the autogun turrets firing sequences out of the special editions. Leave the bullet countdown, but actually showing them firing is unnecessarily amateurish.
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May 23, 2017 19:26
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Shaocaholica posted:So the neomorph on the lander, the first one that's born, does it survive the 'splosion? Yeah it runs out, and they're attacked by both one after another that night. I think they manage to shoot and kill one. Then the second (or first?? who knows) is the one that finds its way into the necropolis later.
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May 23, 2017 19:26
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Neo Rasa posted:I will never understand this myself. Like I saw Aliens in theaters and no one on earth was thinking "oh yeah they haven't shown any Aliens yet, I guess Burke's probably right and it's just a downed transmitter even though the movie is called Aliens and this is the footage that made me go to see it." Nobody thinks they aren't going to see the alien but the mystery and gradual reveal of the colony is a big part of the segment. You're given small hints and the actual outcome is gradually revealed and the first living human you see is Newt. It's actually an excellent job of building up tension despite everyone watching knowing what the mystery's answer. The set design, directing and even prop design (the motion trackers) all work fantastically and having Newt being the first and only living human connection to the colony tends to give her more weight. I don't think the colony scene is bad but it works against the "The marines explore the abandoned colony" buildup.
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May 23, 2017 19:26
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Neo Rasa posted:I will never understand this myself. Like I saw Aliens in theaters and no one on earth was thinking "oh yeah they haven't shown any Aliens yet, I guess Burke's probably right and it's just a downed transmitter even though the movie is called Aliens and this is the footage that made me go to see it." I 100% agree the pre-marine colony scenes add to the experience. What better to get across the human tragedy then knowing for a fact and seeing for ourselves happy families living their lives? Really makes the Aliens and Burke, especially, seem more monstrous. Also, that trailer makes me think the complaint that "the trailers nowadays give away the entire movie" is just old people forgetting how things were in the past. ImpAtom posted:Nobody thinks they aren't going to see the alien but the mystery and gradual reveal of the colony is a big part of the segment. You're given small hints and the actual outcome is gradually revealed and the first living human you see is Newt. It's actually an excellent job of building up tension despite everyone watching knowing what the mystery's answer. The set design, directing and even prop design (the motion trackers) all work fantastically and having Newt being the first and only living human connection to the colony tends to give her more weight. You do make a good point there as well. It is well built up. Kind of set a standard or, at the very least, I've seen some rip-offs go for the same approach. So, I suppose the successfulness of the tension build-up can't be denied. Covok fucked around with this message at 19:31 on May 23, 2017 |
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May 23, 2017 19:27
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I hope every film in this Prometheus sequel ends with a plucky women with short hair being (one of) the sole survivor(s) and then being unceremoniously killed off-screen before the sequel and replaced with a virtual clone of herself There's almost no way the next film doesn't begin with Daniels either dead, or infected with a chestburster
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May 23, 2017 19:36
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:On top of that I would have cut the autogun turrets firing sequences out of the special editions. Leave the bullet countdown, but actually showing them firing is unnecessarily amateurish. Meh. You say that because you've seen it. It's worth keeping for first time viewers.
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May 23, 2017 19:36
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alf_pogs posted:halfway through the film aren't they like "oh no it wasn't a map, it was a warning", which is even more baffling and insane. like why specifically warn them about those stars and point out exactly where they are MonsieurChoc posted:How the gently caress do you not like Halloween 3? CDHiggs posted:Pieces of Stonehenge! Microchips! Masks! Snakes and bugs! So uh let's make this post relevant to Alien: it's loving weird to me that, since Aliens, people expect these movies to have a straightforward plot. I guess they get fooled by the working-class protagonists in lived-in sci-fi settings? The Alien universe has always been a nightmare fever dream where images of rape, birth, death, religion, and machinery come together like a bolus of rattlesnakes. It's actually awesome when characters in Alien movies act like teenagers in 80s slasher movies.
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May 23, 2017 19:37
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Hope this doesn't seem like a sudden change in subject, but has anyone ever examined some of the scripts that were floating around for Alien 3? Some were pretty out there. Like, monks on a wooden planet and an ancient religious book telling you how to remove the alien. Others had things like the space soviet union fighting the space USA with the Alien basically becoming the thing. One was just some pure shlock about the military trying to tame the alien. One was also set in a prison, but was a completely new cast. Most seemed like they were trying to not use Sigourney Weave. Possibly because her appearance in Alien cost 1 Million USD in 1980 dollars, I guess.
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May 23, 2017 19:39
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Mike N Eich posted:I hope every film in this Prometheus sequel ends with a plucky women with short hair being (one of) the sole survivor(s) and then being unceremoniously killed off-screen before the sequel and replaced with a virtual clone of herself Just think, we're currently in a world where there's a non-zero chance of Danny McBride possibly headlining an Alien movie.
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May 23, 2017 19:39
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I read through the space soviet one and it was real real bad. Get this: they made the xeno's infect you with spores in the air and they'd explode out of your back nearly fully grown.
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May 23, 2017 19:39
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Neo Rasa posted:Just think, we're currently in a world where there's a non-zero chance of Danny McBride headlining an Alien movie. Tennessee is going to be a cameo like Elizabeth shaw with a chestbuster sized hole in his now gaping chest cavity. Mike N Eich posted:I hope every film in this Prometheus sequel ends with a plucky women with short hair being (one of) the sole survivor(s) and then being unceremoniously killed off-screen before the sequel and replaced with a virtual clone of herself Like, this seems more with what the studio is going for: David is the only recurring character and the rest get reset each film. Baronjutter posted:I read through the space soviet one and it was real real bad. Get this: they made the xeno's infect you with spores in the air and they'd explode out of your back nearly fully grown. I wouldn't say any of them were that great, really.
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May 23, 2017 19:41
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Baronjutter posted:I read through the space soviet one and it was real real bad. Get this: they made the xeno's infect you with spores in the air and they'd explode out of your back nearly fully grown. To its (dis?)credit, that script really is total poo poo so I'm glad that was used to better effect in Covenant.
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May 23, 2017 19:43
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The worst part about the Aliens Special Edition is Hudson telegraphing the existence of the queen. That absolutely has to go, but I can live with everything else.
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May 23, 2017 19:44
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Neo Rasa posted:To its (dis?)credit, that script really is total poo poo so I'm glad that was used to better effect in Covenant. It was William Gibson too, so shameful. He should have and could have done way better.
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May 23, 2017 19:45
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Ripley's daughter scene is important to me in Aliens. Also payed homage by Scott in Covenant! 
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May 23, 2017 19:47
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CelticPredator posted:Ripley's daughter scene is important to me in Aliens. Also payed homage by Scott in Covenant! Of course, otherwise Alien: Isolation does not exist.
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May 23, 2017 19:49
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Covok posted:Hope this doesn't seem like a sudden change in subject, but has anyone ever examined some of the scripts that were floating around for Alien 3? Some were pretty out there. Like, monks on a wooden planet and an ancient religious book telling you how to remove the alien. Others had things like the space soviet union fighting the space USA with the Alien basically becoming the thing. One was just some pure shlock about the military trying to tame the alien. One was also set in a prison, but was a completely new cast. Most seemed like they were trying to not use Sigourney Weave. Possibly because her appearance in Alien cost 1 Million USD in 1980 dollars, I guess.
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May 23, 2017 19:50
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Covok posted:Of course, otherwise Alien: Isolation does not exist. It adds so much to her character through out, and just makes Alien 3 that much more hopeless. It's great!
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May 23, 2017 19:51
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Covok posted:
That's fine but why do this whole dog and pony show of trying to get the audience to enjoy any time with these sub-cardboard-cut-out characters. At least save us going through the motions.
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May 23, 2017 19:52
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Actually y'all are real wrong and Gibson's Alien 3 script rules:quote:BISHOP Henriksen would deliver the poo poo out of that line e: also Bishop with a pulse rifle headshotting Aliens one by one as the digital ammo counter ticks down like a stopwatch Clipperton fucked around with this message at 19:56 on May 23, 2017 |
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May 23, 2017 19:53
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Halloween Jack posted:I don't understand this complaint at all. It's stupid to be specific when you issue a warning? Given what the Engineers were actually about to do I'd say it's more a threat than a warning. In any case we've lost all context in the intervening 30000 years to be able to tell exactly what the wall carvings were actually for. Except they clearly were NOT meant to be a monogrammed wedding invitation.
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May 23, 2017 19:53
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Daniels: David, will you help me build that cabin we talked about? David: *processing* David: *processing* David: Yep, sleep tight Of course he revealed his identity deliberately and not by accident.
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May 23, 2017 20:03
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So, uh, the ending: Am I supposed to infer that the Covenant ends up turning into the derelict from the first movie somehow, or are there still remaining blanks to be filled in? Because Covenant seems to not so much imply as bluntly state that David made Xenomorph Classic by dicking around with the black goo and Shaw bits, and trying to reconcile that with the derelict being an Engineer ship and having what appears to be a dead Engineer in it is making my brain hurt.
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May 23, 2017 20:05
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:So, uh, the ending: The ship won't literally turn into the derelict, but it's def possible those eggs end up on a bigger ship. Also black goo makes you look quite fossilized.
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May 23, 2017 20:09
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Let's not worry about how these movies tie into some kind of continuity and enjoy
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May 23, 2017 20:11
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If Scott's not bullshitting about his plan for like 3 more films in this series, we have plenty of time to cover that ground in any number of different ways. It's still completely possible that there's going to be some time spent in a future movie explaining that David is really only reproducing the Engineers previous work, they've done all this before and those eggs on LV-426 actually are thousands of years old. David having his ego crushed by finding out that he hasn't created something unique would actually fit pretty well with the themes that are already going on in the films.
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May 23, 2017 20:13
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Honestly, the only important continuity, the one that has actual meaning and story (Ripley's story) is still intact. The hows and whys leading up to it don't matter.
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May 23, 2017 20:14
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:So, uh, the ending: The reason you can't fill in the blanks yet is because they haven't been filled in yet, it's that simple. I don't mean that in a hostile way but I don't really get why so many people are confused about this, it would be like wondering why episode 2 of the Star Wars prequels doesn't lead right into episode 4.
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May 23, 2017 20:18
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CelticPredator posted:Honestly, the only important continuity, the one that has actual meaning and story (Ripley's story) is still intact. The hows and whys leading up to it don't matter. See, that's the thing, because the little chunks of "why" presented in Covenant are honestly loving with one of the big things I like about Ripley's story. I'm much more fond of the idea that a crew of space truckers just bumblefucked into something horrible because the universe is a cold and uncaring place full of horrible things, than of the idea that the Xenomorphs were part of some grand design by a robot that wanted to be God. Not that the latter idea isn't loving awesome on its own- I feel like Ridley Scott's paying off a lot of themes he started playing around with in Blade Runner with these movies- I'm just not sure that it gels particularly well with the earlier Alien movies. Lord Krangdar posted:The reason you can't fill in the blanks yet is because they haven't been filled in yet. I don't mean that in a hostile way but I don't really get why so many people are confused about this, it would be like wondering why episode 2 of the Star Wars prequels doesn't lead right into episode 4. It's less that I'm wondering why episode 2 doesn't lead into episode 4, and more that I'm a little confused as to what the hell episode 3 is gonna be about, given that (a few weird little inconsistencies aside) it seemingly does.
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May 23, 2017 20:18
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I was thinking about getting an AvP game on Steam. What are the thread's thoughts on the Aliens Vs Predator Classic 2000 compared to the 2010 AvP game? I'm sure I will play as all three characters at some point, but I am mainly interested now in playing as the Marine. I did play the 2000 game, but it has been ages. I'm wondering how the graphics hold up today, and how the USCMC campaign in it stacks up to this more recent 2010 version.
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May 23, 2017 20:19
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MrMojok posted:I was thinking about getting an AvP game on Steam. What are the thread's thoughts on the Aliens Vs Predator Classic 2000 compared to the 2010 AvP game? Get the 2000 game if you want to repeatedly poo poo your pants because of goddamn facehuggers. Get the 2010 game if you wanna play a decentish modern FPS with a hilarious Alien campaign where you're followed around by a facehugger conga line.
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May 23, 2017 20:20
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