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Endorph posted:I mean I've played gaiden 3-4 times so I don't think it's unfair to compare conquest's maps to it. conquest didn't have map design it just had stupid gimmicks, a lot of the maps were still basically boxes or strings of chokepoints, there was no thought put into enemy placement or terrain, it's just you'd get blown around by a wind machine or have a button to freeze every enemy to make up for the fact that the enemy placement was basically gaiden with higher damage and hit rates. I disagree.
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May 24, 2017 07:35
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The wind map allowed you to manipulate the winds to move faster and get into good enemy range. The worst map in Conquest is the terrible kitsune map.
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May 24, 2017 07:35
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Endorph posted:I mean I've played gaiden 3-4 times so I don't think it's unfair to compare conquest's maps to it. conquest didn't have map design it just had stupid gimmicks, a lot of the maps were still basically boxes or strings of chokepoints, there was no thought put into enemy placement or terrain, it's just you'd get blown around by a wind machine or have a button to freeze every enemy to make up for the fact that the enemy placement was basically gaiden with higher damage and hit rates. This game also eschews map design in favour of gimmicks tbf. E: Final map is probably one of the best in the series though.
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May 24, 2017 07:36
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cheetah7071 posted:The wind map is the worst map in conquest and I can think of three worse maps in this game off the top of my head, with a few more arguable ones every map in gaiden/echoes gets +5 good map points by virtue of not having pair-up
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May 24, 2017 07:37
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Pureauthor posted:The wind map allowed you to manipulate the winds to move faster and get into good enemy range. Yeah that map was awful
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May 24, 2017 07:37
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I have probably spent more time in this game doing braindead simple one turn clears of dungeon fights than I spent in Conquest being annoyed by gimmicks (when playing normal mode of each)
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May 24, 2017 07:38
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cheetah7071 posted:I have probably spent more time in this game doing braindead simple one turn clears of dungeon fights than I spent in Conquest being annoyed by gimmicks (when playing normal mode of each) Are you counting Revelations wind map as well?
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May 24, 2017 07:42
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Are you counting Revelations wind map as well? There's a reason I said Conquest, not Fates
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May 24, 2017 07:46
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cheetah7071 posted:There's a reason I said Conquest, not Fates I just wanted to make sure because I was going to object.
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May 24, 2017 07:47
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braindead simple one turn dungeon clears are kinda fun in a braindead way
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May 24, 2017 07:51
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I like Conquest's good maps a lot. Shame about all the gimmicky bullshit maps.
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May 24, 2017 07:51
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Endorph posted:braindead simple one turn dungeon clears are kinda fun in a braindead way I mean, I don't play strategy games to not think.
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May 24, 2017 08:01
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Conquest of probably the most fun I ever had playing an FE, but like Endorph said in the general thread in retrospect it feels like virtually every mission is a bomb diffusion or something, and it's kinda hard to hype myself up for replays given how godawful my endgame army relative to the enemies was despite being way better than my Birthright crew. And, you know, no loving soul, the polar opposite of this.
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May 24, 2017 08:06
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Pureauthor posted:I mean, I don't play strategy games to not think. i mean, same, and i do think some dungeons go on too long but as an occasional thing just running your dudes into some dudes and seeing how hard you can kill them is fun.
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May 24, 2017 08:08
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this cast is probably my favorite out of the series. who knew gaiden had some life to it. also mae is best girl
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May 24, 2017 08:17
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Extra Tasty posted:this cast is probably my favorite out of the series. who knew gaiden had some life to it. It's Mathilda but Mae is close.
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May 24, 2017 08:18
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Faye is best girl not for personality but because she has successfully murdered about half of Rigel's standing armies via Nosferatu.
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May 24, 2017 08:21
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Pureauthor posted:Faye is best girl not for personality but because she has successfully murdered about half of Rigel's standing armies via Nosferatu. There's gotta be more accurate spells for her to use.
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May 24, 2017 08:22
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SyntheticPolygon posted:There's gotta be more accurate spells for her to use. Yeah she gets Seraphim but this is an Enemy-Phase focused game and Nosferatu is the default counterattack.
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May 24, 2017 08:24
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Pureauthor posted:Yeah she gets Seraphim but this is an Enemy-Phase focused game and Nosferatu is the default counterattack. You must be having a lot more luck with 60% accuracy hits than I did.
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May 24, 2017 08:29
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SyntheticPolygon posted:You must be having a lot more luck with 60% accuracy hits than I did. please give her alms support
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May 24, 2017 08:33
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mandatory lesbian posted:please give her alms support I was referring to my other clerics because I made Faye a Pegasus Knight.
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May 24, 2017 08:36
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I love the "field everybody" thing though the spawn points on some maps can be rather scattered. It keeps me from needing to pick my favorites, and lets me find everyone's niche even if that's "limp across the map uselessly because you only get 4 move as a baron knight and that's affected by terrain". People make tier lists and call some folks garbage, but sometimes one or two good levels makes all the difference and this gives folks that chance where otherwise they'd get discarded too quickly. Contrast with Fates, particularly Revelation, where you might get 10-12 party slots and there's 8 royals + the main character and Azura.
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May 24, 2017 08:36
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yeah, 'deploy everyone' can somewhat kill replay value but villagers and weird stuff like being able to pick up some of alm's guys as celica adds replay value in another way
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May 24, 2017 08:38
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So I heard the postgame dungeon isn't very beatable without grinding your units to max level, is that right? Wonder if I should get that Blitzkrieg run out of the way first, Thabes sounds like a draining experience.
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May 24, 2017 08:50
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are you on normal or hard? I imagine it's a little more manageable on normal. But yeah, you do need to grind a bit.
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May 24, 2017 09:03
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Speaking of mechanics, which of the difficulties is closer to the original Gaiden? Hard, I'm guessing? I began my first playthrough on Normal but by the time I got to the first necrodragon in Chapter 2, I was finding it all... a bit easy. On the other hand, if Hard is anything remotely like how Conquest was...
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May 24, 2017 09:09
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I found this game pretty rough on Hard, but also i'm bad at Fire Emblem so that contributed a lot.
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May 24, 2017 09:10
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There's not much difference between hard and normal, probably because of how speed works in this game. Enemies have somewhat higher atk stats, a bit more hp, and I think have better weapons later in the game, that's about it.
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May 24, 2017 09:11
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Endorph posted:are you on normal or hard? I imagine it's a little more manageable on normal. But yeah, you do need to grind a bit. I'm on Hard. Looks like I'm doing the second playthrough first then. Grinding a team up to high/max level is something I'd like to leave for last.
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May 24, 2017 09:16
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I'm playing on normal for my second play through. Normal is basically awakening levels of nornal difficulty. Gray couldn't solo half an army this early in the game back on hard. Faye basically soloed the bandit boss.
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May 24, 2017 09:23
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Tae posted:I'm playing on normal for my second play through. Yeah, especially since my Faye turned into a monster, a lot of the encounters felt just a hair too simple on Normal. I'll do Alm's chapter on Hard and see how it feels. Also I agree with comments on the previous page that FE4/5/6/7 with these aesthetics and this much polish would stand among the best games of all time. I'm honestly kind of excited for FE Switch and I hope some of these mechanics become, at long last, series standard. Weapons work so much better here it's really kind of sad the idea was left to wallow so long. EDIT: What specifically made me want to try Hard was the necrodragon, and specifically this: https://lparchive.org/Fire-Emblem-Gaiden/Update%2010/ The enemy in question was nowhere near as threatening as this made it look - Celica killed it in one round, and even if her damage had been slightly lower, it still would've gone down like a sack of taters to everyone else's follow-ups. It's really just seemed like the game's that little bit too easy on Normal; you can still gently caress up or play too dangerous, but even into Celica's first chapter, it's never felt that perilous. SpaceDrake fucked around with this message at 10:05 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 09:42
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Mila's turnwheel made this game pretty easy even on hard since I could actually make mistakes and try risky stuff without having to reload.
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May 24, 2017 10:11
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Andrast posted:Mila's turnwheel made this game pretty easy even on hard since I could actually make mistakes and try risky stuff without having to reload. That's not really making it easier, more making it more convenient, since you had the same function already - just more annoying (reloading from the map start save). No perma-death on the other hand makes it easier, even if you normally played with restarting if anyone dies, since it allows for suicide runs unlike the perma-death mode.
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May 24, 2017 10:33
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Decius posted:That's not really making it easier, more making it more convenient, since you had the same function already - just more annoying (reloading from the map start save). No perma-death on the other hand makes it easier, even if you normally played with restarting if anyone dies, since it allows for suicide runs unlike the perma-death mode. The turnwheel let me make risky moves I would never have done otherwise.
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May 24, 2017 10:36
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Turnwheel is a more convenient battle save. The switch game should really have a load save function.
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May 24, 2017 11:43
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Endorph posted:every map in gaiden/echoes gets +5 good map points by virtue of not having pair-up I mean that's your real issue with kozaki games despite years of fluff and I'm glad you can finally admit it. You also had a similar honeymoon phase with conquest though.
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May 24, 2017 11:55
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yeah but ive played gaiden before and pretty much crystalized my thoughts on it, i would have given gaiden like a 7/10 and this game's extra point to get it to 8/10 would just be presentation
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May 24, 2017 12:03
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I know a lot of people are in the 'gently caress yeah' phase of liking this game, but honestly I kinda regret getting it. It isn't bad, but there are a lot of pretty serious flaws that really drag it down to one of my least favorite FE games. Like the random encounter mechanic which just spams stupid easy enemy groups to ambush you on the world map over and over again. Forcing you to either play Alm/Celica's maps to completion or hiding them on a dungeon tile so you don't have to fight 3 paladins every other fight. Or the respawning static random encounters on the world map on Celica's route which seem placed to be as obnoxious as possible if you're trying to backtrack for sidequests/promotions. I also really hate the way the promotion system and promotion gains work. It really encourages you to promote people into classes diametrically opposed to their growths and penalizes people stuck in classes that match them. Like Valbar gains gently caress all every time he promotes because he's basically the platonic ideal of an Echoes Knight while Atlas is now a goddamn engine of destruction because he has poo poo growth in everything that Dread Fight gives for free and gets massive boosts on top of his absurd strength. I don't like the weapon system. Its opaque as hell and doesn't tell you which skills are tied to which weapon or how long it takes to unlock them. The upgrades are similarly opaque, forcing you to waste tons of money to figure out what upgrades into what, or even hiding the fact some weapons can upgrade behind getting them to 3 stars. Class balance is still insanely bad which is kind of an issue when there are so few classes. Barons are just... loving why? Especially with the game's obsession with throwing mobility impairing maps at you. Oh yeah, and the maps themselves are just painfully bad overall. Especially on Celica's route with its massive amounts of poison swamps and deserts which are just such a loving slog. It doesn't help that they're all rout maps and there are none with secondary objectives beyond 'don't kill this specifc enemy' or 'don't let the green units die'. Then there are the dungeons. Which start out fine, but really quickly lose their luster once you get into Chapter 4 and they start going on forever. Also not being able to save inside them and having instant game-over of Alm/Celica die instead of letting you use the turnwheel just feels incredibly punishing. I also dislike most of the characters because the support system is so tacked on and the supports and base conversations are really short and mostly either bland or bad. It also seems to surgically avoid any fun charcter pairings or interactions since support lists are so limited. I do like personal spell lists though, and the story is most fine if unexceptional. Celica's determination to constantly make bad choices for the sake of drama drags it down a bit (hey Conrad, just gonna need you to save my rear end for the sixth time in a row because I did something idiotic) which sucks because she's otherwise cool. Alm gets some good scenes as long as they have nothing to do with Celica (dunking on Clive in Chapter 3 is a highlight). Its also a very short game overall and the postgame seems tuned to force you to buy the ridiculous DLC or grind in a way throughout the game that the game teaches you not to (getting to 20 before promotion) or your dudes are almost all useless. The DLC itself is absolutely shameless too. One other part I really like is the generally less lethal phases. People on both sides can usually soak a few hits which is such a breath of fresh air after Fates and its hyper-lethality. I dunno, 6/10 overall. Really janky with good production values and probably only beats FE11/12 for me in terms of FE games I've played. Zore fucked around with this message at 13:28 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 13:05
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Zore posted:
I agree with basically of of your points, except this, because I really like them all and they feel all fleshed out a lot better than Fates and Awakening with their gigantic cast. 6/10 is too low in my opinion, 7/10 seems to be a fair assessment however, thanks to music, style and animations Edit: And voice acting and the really fun translation. The dungeons are especially bad on an old 3DS, because the camera controls are hellish. An isometric dungeon view would have been a lot better. Decius fucked around with this message at 13:25 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 13:20
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