Eej posted:On one hand this is funny on the other hand this makes me think of all those incredibly inaccurate "online slang dictionaries" you've seen everywhere since the 90s It's pretty legit man. Some fo the terms and phrase are still being used today in casual speech.
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May 24, 2017 19:06
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cagg im gay
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May 24, 2017 19:10
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Ainsley McTree posted:cagg im gay Backgammon player!
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May 24, 2017 19:12
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SeanBeansShako posted:Backgammon player! Hey dude, want to see my Backgammon Bomb? 
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May 24, 2017 20:07
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This work debate has gotten out of hand and I need expert help. I'm sure we all love "Forged in Fire", or at least I do. Here's the situation: you have four contestants: one is an expert modern metallurgist/smith. One is a medieval-era "Ulfberht" smith. One is a Japanese medieval smith from whatever the peak of that craft was (Matsumoto? Hattori Hanzo? I know nothing about Japan I'm sorry). One is a near-East smith who makes authentic Damascus steel. They have access to whatever tools/forges they want, and access to whatever metals and materials they want; the only rule is that they have to use steel, so the modern guy can't use titanium or tank armor ceramics or something. At the end of 5 days a couple of middle aged guys and a very enthusiastic self proclaimed edged weapons expert will put their blades through a series of tests to determine who gets the $10,000 check. What order do they finish in, and why? edit - Masamune is the guy I was thinking of. Apparently one of his swords is in Kansas City? ha bewbies fucked around with this message at 20:29 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 20:26
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I mean I am no expert but I feel like the different types of swords being made by the different experts are going to excel at different tasks.
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May 24, 2017 20:33
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bewbies posted:This work debate has gotten out of hand and I need expert help. I have no idea but are there four people in this argument, each of whom is sure of the superiority of a certain sword making techinique?
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May 24, 2017 20:36
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Modern steel metallurgy is pretty much actual witchcraft at this stage though, so i would put that first.
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May 24, 2017 20:38
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May 24, 2017 20:39
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Telsa Cola posted:I mean I am no expert but I feel like the different types of swords being made by the different experts are going to excel at different tasks. good point - if you haven't seen the show, they usually do like 2-3 tests, like chopping through a fish or hitting an oil drum or cutting down sugar cane or poking a ballistic gel dummy wearing armor and filled with goo. So, something along those lines....a test of the sword's strength, a test of its cutting ability, and then a test against a "person" in the form of a ballistic gel dummy.
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May 24, 2017 20:42
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bewbies posted:This work debate has gotten out of hand and I need expert help. I'm thinking the modern rocks it in all dimensions and thus looses "because it is not authentic" like the Hanzo steel/ Damascus steel. Otherwise the real Damascus steel dude because it is a lost secret
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May 24, 2017 20:42
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Japanese guy wins because the self proclaimed edged weapons enthusiast is probably a massive weeb. And $10,000 is probably what a Peter Johnsson custom would run you these days.
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May 24, 2017 20:44
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Would the Japanese guy spring for better quality iron and steel or would he stick to what he knew? AFAIK a big reason for the shape of the katana and the forging techniques used to make them was because Japanese smiths had access to poo poo iron. Unrelated: I was thinking about SDI/missile defense the other day and wondered: what is expected to happen to an armed ballistic nuclear missile when it is destroyed by an interceptor? Does it just spread radioactive material from the core over thousands of miles? Is there a risk of detonating the warhead?
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May 24, 2017 20:48
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Polyakov posted:Modern steel metallurgy is pretty much actual witchcraft at this stage though, so i would put that first. Yeah. Making a sword out of something like a modern tool steel would probably yield something insanely good at being a sword. Apparently some smiths are making swords out of L6, an oil-hardening high speed steel and winding up with tough, flexible, and durable blades that look sick too.  zoux posted:I was thinking about SDI/missile defense the other day and wondered: what is expected to happen to an armed ballistic nuclear missile when it is destroyed by an interceptor? Does it just spread radioactive material from the core over thousands of miles? Is there a risk of detonating the warhead? Yes, and yes. If you're just plain mechanically disrupting the thing like with a modern kinetic interceptor, you're going to wind up with the debris from the impact dispersed around, and depending on how high up you intercepted it that might or might not be a concern, but in almost any event imaginable it's not going to be as bad as if the warhead hit its target. The old nuclear-tipped ABMs relied on either x-ray heating or neutron emissions to spoil the yield of the warhead either by causing thermal expansion or predetonation, so you'd get some nuclear yield there as well, but again, nowhere near as bad as the thing actually working as intended. Lastly, you can fuse your warheads to make them go off if they're hit by an interceptor, but again: it's better if I get your warhead to blow up far away from the target then if it hits the target, so if you do that that's fine too; the only time that'd be relevant is in a tactical context rather than a strategic one. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 20:57 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 20:51
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/Miller_Center/status/867017272606380032 I can't actually get the whole clip to load for some damned reason, but if you mean Ike's theory that the Soviet move to put nuclear missiles was completely unrelated to their aims in Berlin, that's nonsense, Khrushchev explicitly planned to trade one for the other, and Kennedy saw that. Ike's guess that the Soviets wouldn't launch if Cuba was invaded is likely incorrect as well, there were tactical weapons deployed specifically to repel any US invasion attempt, and authority had been pre-delegated to the commanders on the ground.
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May 24, 2017 20:54
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Polyakov posted:Modern steel metallurgy is pretty much actual witchcraft at this stage though, so i would put that first. This is my stance but I know absolutely nothing about swordmaking or metallurgy and others are arguing for their respective historical smiths wish such enthusiasm it made me genuinely curious if there' s any actual evidence or scholarship these historical smiths could put up a weapon that could compete with modern tech wizardry. zoux posted:I was thinking about SDI/missile defense the other day and wondered: what is expected to happen to an armed ballistic nuclear missile when it is destroyed by an interceptor? Does it just spread radioactive material from the core over thousands of miles? Is there a risk of detonating the warhead? It would not cause a nuclear detonation, but it would spread some amount of radioactive fuel around the upper atmosphere. Most of it would be consumed in a big plasma ball created with objects interact at mach one million, however. Related problem: a big problem with the early Patriot anti-ballistic missiles was that they were proximity fused, and so if they intercepted a chemical SCUD it'd just release the chemical over wherever the interception occurred. This was one of the big justifications for developing the PAC-3 interceptor back in the early 90s - if Saddam got uppity again and fired a chemical SCUD at Israel, a hit-to-kill missile could consume all the chemwar agents in a big fireball.
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May 24, 2017 20:58
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PS - Hattori Hanzo the swordsmith is not a real person, it's a guy made up for Kill Bill. Well that's not quite true. There were several real-life Hattori Hanzo's, the most famous of which was a samurai from Iga province during the Sengoku period, who served Tokugawa Ieyasu, and was head of the ninja clans. This is cooler than making swords, in my opinion.
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May 24, 2017 20:58
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PittTheElder posted:I can't actually get the whole clip to load for some damned reason, but if you mean Ike's theory that the Soviet move to put nuclear missiles was completely unrelated to their aims in Berlin, that's nonsense, Khrushchev explicitly planned to trade one for the other, and Kennedy saw that. Ike's guess that the Soviets wouldn't launch if Cuba was invaded is likely incorrect as well, there were tactical weapons deployed specifically to repel any US invasion attempt, and authority had been pre-delegated to the commanders on the ground. Yeah at the end Ike says he doesn't think that invading Cuba because of the Soviet missiles placed there wouldn't lead to a nuclear strike from the USSR. Also, I've heard, and obviously I'm an idiot who knows very little, but the quid pro quo the Soviets were after was the removal of intermediate range nuclear missiles in Turkey. I guess my question would be, what's the historical consensus on all the concessions the USSR was trying to extract? Even broader, was that the primary purpose of putting missiles in the Caribbean: putting them there with the full intention they'd be discovered and have to be removed but for US concessions, or to actually threaten the US mainland?
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May 24, 2017 21:00
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I don't know about a historical consensus to me, but what the Soviets were doing was trying to construct a reasonable deterrent to the US mainland. Their early ICBMs were very inaccurate, and they didn't have many of them, which meant they had basically no ability to strike back against the US itself. What they did have was the ability to completely destroy western Europe, but being able to annihilate a bunch of US allies is pretty cold comfort in the event of a US first strike. Meanwhile you have US missiles in Italy and Turkey, and SAC's Sunday Punch which if successfully executed would have killed a strong majority of everyone in the Soviet Union, and they're conducting routine illegal overflights because the Soviets can't physically stop them; that's a kind of threat you kind of have to respond to. Khrushchev wasn't playing twelve dimensional chess though, and his motivations include all of the ones you've given. The primary goal was to create an effective ability to strike the US. They were never meant to be secret, Khrushchev actually planned to announce their presence, but the U-2s found them first. At the same time, he also figured he might later be able to trade the removal of those missiles for West Berlin, a trade he was eager to make. It's also important to shore up his Cuban allies and prevent the US from invading and toppling the regime.
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May 24, 2017 21:20
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zoux posted:Yeah at the end Ike says he doesn't think that invading Cuba because of the Soviet missiles placed there wouldn't lead to a nuclear strike from the USSR. The missiles in Cuba were there as a counterweight to the US/NATO missiles in a similar range band. These were particularly threatening because the flight time of the missile would be less than the amount of time any reasonable evacuation plan would take, and possibly longer than it would take to identify the launch and order a retaliatory strike. This made a "nuclear headshot" frighteningly possible. It doesn't take much imbalance in the balance of terror to make MAD a very flimsy reed. The point of the missiles was to either balance out the threat, or to be used as a quid pro quo to get the threat removed.
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May 24, 2017 21:23
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Polyakov posted:Modern steel metallurgy is pretty much actual witchcraft at this stage though, so i would put that first. 
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May 24, 2017 21:35
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Viking Smith wins because even if he loses he can just kill the winner and take the $10,000. Seriously though I imagine the modern smith would win, advancements in metallurgy are probably just too big of a gap to overcome.
Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 21:49 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 21:47
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Oil hardening, high speed steel? Explain it to me with minimal physics and chemistry.
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May 24, 2017 21:57
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zoux posted:Yeah at the end Ike says he doesn't think that invading Cuba because of the Soviet missiles placed there wouldn't lead to a nuclear strike from the USSR. Removing the missiles from Turkey was just a ruse. The actual trade was for Sokolov. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aHQnDTd1y4
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May 24, 2017 22:09
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JcDent posted:Oil hardening, high speed steel? Explain it to me with minimal physics and chemistry. Steel forms a variety of different atomic arrangements when it is cooled from high temperature, these structures are Martensite, Austenite, Cementite, Ferrite and Pearlite, these structures all have different properties and lie on a sliding scale of hardness versus brittleness. Steel will form different mixes of those structures when cooled at different rates, but broadly If you cool steel quickly you get very hard but very brittle steel, if you cool it slowly you get soft but flexible steel. Ideally when you form a sword you want a hard edge but a flexible center so it cuts well but wont shatter, the better you can control your cooling rate the more precisely you can get the steel to form the structures that you want to create an ideal sword with those properties. Our understanding of that and the range of quenching liquids (oils in this case) is significantly better than those of historical smiths who would usually just use water. The transformation points and the structures of steel that you get can also be controlled via the alloying process, High Speed Steels are a group of steels which are usually used for tooling applications, they have been alloyed with Vanadium, chromium, tungsten and molybdenum and form their own structures within the steel which alter the properties in quite precise ways that we are able to control and design for when we set out to create a steel alloy, so you can edge your sword with a HSS of very high hardness to give it the best possible cutting edge, then make the rest of the body of softer and springier steel which absorbs the shock of impact and distributes it through the blade to prevent shattering. Essentially we have a much greater range of alloying and production methods which allow us to say exactly what it is that we want from an alloy and then create it, historical smiths did not.
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May 24, 2017 22:20
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A hardened tool steel weapon with a chromoly core would be all kinds of baller. I've seen 400+YO Japanese blades and they're geometrically/physically perfect, and look as good as the day they were made. It doesn't detract from the fact that they had really lovely ore/refining, and so it was an art in itself to get something usable out of that. I highly doubt the Damascus steel is superior to modern alloys, and once that's established you're just arguing weapon types I guess? What all the historical smiths have on the modern guys is a vast pool of experts at wielding their weapons. We have PMC wannabes and weeeaboos.
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May 24, 2017 23:18
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The contest is actually won by a gunsmith who is secretly entered and he just shoots all the swords to pieces with a blunderbus.
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May 24, 2017 23:21
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The Ulfberht guy straight up fucks off and leaves because he neither believes in pure fiat currency, nor the concept of cashing a check. The modern smith actually wants the prize, so he makes a perfectly passable sword and takes first place. The Damascus guy figures sure, why not, but spends so much of his time being secretive about his methods that he doesn't properly finish and only manages to score second place. The Japanese smith actually forgets about the contest until the last day and just grabs an oar, but still finishes third.
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May 25, 2017 02:37
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The modern smith makes a three metre long sword he saw in an anime and finishes last, though one of the judges has to be talked out of it.
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May 25, 2017 02:53
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Damascus guy loses because he forgot how to make swords. Seriously though, how amazing are Damascus swords? I have always been suspicious as if their quality has been grossly exaggerated. Would love an effort post on this if anyone can. Also, modern guy wins. You just compete with what we know about steel today, its insane how good we are at a steel.
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May 25, 2017 03:00
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In all seriousness, the modern smith will probably do well in the raw quality of the metal, but where he'll likely fall down on is making an ergonomically sound and effective weapon, because those are particular specialist skills a modern smith is unlikely to be experienced in, whereas the others will have a lot of experience. Too long, or too heavy, or too weirdly balanced, or too hard to hold are errors I expect the modern smith to make. I mean a sizeable number of self-styled sword 'experts' will tell you the fuller is a 'blood groove'.
Fangz fucked around with this message at 03:17 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 03:07
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You would think ergonomics would also be important for any tool, though.
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May 25, 2017 03:25
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OwlFancier posted:You would think ergonomics would also be important for any tool, though. I don't think most modern swords are meant for use as tools. They're for display, occasionally chopping stuff on a demo video to prove their sharpness, and being used in mock combat for a fairly small subset of people who use legit swords on each other. Cold Steel is probably the best example of modern "combat" swords, since they make their stuff for self-defense. This does make many of their designs very modern in appearance, with matte black finishes and rubberized grips.
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May 25, 2017 03:29
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I'll also wager the likes of Cold Steel will have problems because any one individual working there probably doesn't know the entire process. You might have someone who can design a good blade, but the actual manufacturing happens in a factory in Taiwan and the handles come from someone else entirely.
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May 25, 2017 03:43
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I guess I just figure there's an abundance of real period swords out there as reference and anyone with half a brain should be able to think to put some weight on the pommel to balance out the blade and remove extraneous material where possible. Comedy option is that the modern smith makes a snow axe. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 03:50 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 03:47
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Fangz posted:In all seriousness, the modern smith will probably do well in the raw quality of the metal, but where he'll likely fall down on is making an ergonomically sound and effective weapon, because those are particular specialist skills a modern smith is unlikely to be experienced in, whereas the others will have a lot of experience. Too long, or too heavy, or too weirdly balanced, or too hard to hold are errors I expect the modern smith to make. I mean a sizeable number of self-styled sword 'experts' will tell you the fuller is a 'blood groove'. Can't he take a historical example, laser-scan it, and duplicate the shape to the nearest hundredth-millimetre? The shape wouldn't take advantage of the modern steel's properties as well as it could have, but it would still be OK.
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May 25, 2017 03:54
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chitoryu12 posted:Cold Steel is probably the best example of modern "combat" swords What, these guys? https://youtu.be/Bdfx7l4z5cQ
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May 25, 2017 04:02
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Or you could take that steel, melt it down, and make the most mediocre gun in the world which will still be far and away superior to the finest hanzo-Damascus hybrid
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May 25, 2017 04:02
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Cyrano4747 posted:Or you could take that steel, melt it down, and make the most mediocre gun in the world which will still be far and away superior to the finest hanzo-Damascus hybrid You forgot to make bullets 
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May 25, 2017 04:06
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PittTheElder posted:What, these guys? https://youtu.be/Bdfx7l4z5cQ I don't understand why someone made a parody video of that, you can't improve upon the original https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hfLZozBVpM
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May 25, 2017 04:13
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