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Z. Autobahn posted:No, I know, I'm not trying to say "both sides are equally bad", obviously Republicans are vastly worse. I'm just saying, I see some posturing like "how could ANYONE vote for a candidate who assaults a reporter, our nation is DOOMED" when most of us would still pull the lever for a D who did the same. It speaks more to me about how insanely divided the two parties are, and how incredibly hard it would be to get someone who's politically passionate to change their mind. I agree with you that our politics are divisive to the point where it's exceedingly difficult to imagine a peaceable resolution within our generation. That being said, so much of that is occurring because white supremacy is being challenged in way it hasn't in generations. The political debate is opening up to redistributive policies that don't come at the expense of minorities, and white people are feeling the need to violently defend the status quo. We shouldn't back away from justice because it engenders violent hysteria on the other side. And yeah, we're probably also going to have to become rigidly partisan. 
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May 25, 2017 18:43
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Fansy posted:Imagine what today's news would look like if a black democrat bodyslammed a fox reporter. Can I imagine it was Sean Hannity and he died?
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May 25, 2017 18:43
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Fansy posted:lowtax doesn't even use snapchat He keeps it to a very, very sad Twitter account.
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May 25, 2017 18:43
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Fart City posted:Holy Jesus we got a handshake feud goin on. I'm waiting for some foreign leader to just lean into it and knock Trump on his rear end.
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May 25, 2017 18:43
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BootStrap posted:Nelix was a pedophile. Kes was like 2 or 3. Teenagers, Reddit, etc. I see nothing contradictory!
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May 25, 2017 18:43
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Z. Autobahn posted:Here's the thing that I keep mulling over. Let's say it's November 6th, 2016, and Hillary bodyslams a Fox News reporter. To some extent, isn't your argument contradicted by the existence of the Bernie or Bust mindset? Or are you making the argument that the type of liberal voter who'd abandon a candidate if she did something truly heinous and illegal does not post on these forums?
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May 25, 2017 18:43
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Z. Autobahn posted:Trump will be the best thing that ever happened to the American left. Agreed. Sometimes the best way to defeat someone is to let them actually win. Not that we let Trump win. Well, kinda did but...oh hell it all just fell apart. On to other news, watch the video of Trump berating the assembled NATO group like they were in a school assembly. They literally can't believe what they're hearing. This is truly a magical time to follow politics.
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May 25, 2017 18:44
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mcmagic posted:Not really, because a white nationalist candidate for congress beating up a globalist reporter is not really out of the ordinary with where the republicans are right now. It would be for democrats. That's absolutely true, but it's not what I'm talking about; I'm talking about the posturing that the fact that Rs aren't abandoning Gianforte en masse is a sign of the death of the Republic, and not partisanship-as-usual. Sure, it would be wildly out of the ordinary for a Dem to deck a Fox News reporter, but if it did happen, it wouldn't make us all suddenly change our party allegiance; that doesn't make us all bad people or the nation doomed.
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May 25, 2017 18:44
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Diamond Joe would deck a reporter that made fun of his Grand Am.
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May 25, 2017 18:45
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Chilichimp posted:Fuckin' ditto? There's been polls done on the forums with hundreds or thousands answering. Unless you think that people are aging themselves up as a troll.
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May 25, 2017 18:46
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Z. Autobahn posted:That's absolutely true, but it's not what I'm talking about; I'm talking about the posturing that the fact that Rs aren't abandoning Gianforte en masse is a sign of the death of the Republic, and not partisanship-as-usual. Sure, it would be wildly out of the ordinary for a Dem to deck a Fox News reporter, but if it did happen, it wouldn't make us all suddenly change our party allegiance; that doesn't make us all bad people or the nation doomed. THIS isn't the death of the republic on it's own, I think we will remember the theft of the SCOTUS seat and Trump's election as that, but this is just another outgrowth of that. Basically my view is that this is a cold (at the moment) civil war, not just partisanship as usual.
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May 25, 2017 18:46
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Apoplexy posted:There is absolutely no way any time prior to this has been as bad as this. 20% of the country is heavily-armed, psychotic, and willing to go to full-scale genocidal civil war on a moment's notice. Not to parrot what's already been said, but that isn't remotely true. Even without looking at Jim Crow, or the MASSIVE figures of decades'-worth of brutal race/sexuality/gender-based violence that have been normalized or brushed under the rug of history, the US has had several periods of serious political violence and unrest since the civil war. The late 1800s-1920s had literal labor wars across the country where corporate bosses and politicians would use private security, paid and unpaid mobs, and law enforcement to beat, kill, and intimidate strikers and political opponents. Assassinations were carried out. The decades after that saw nationwide campaigns of intimidation and violence waged against different immigrant groups, both judicially and extrajudicially. And we basically had a small-scale domestic insurgency and nation-wide gang war during Prohibition. During the great depression, violence and lawlessness manifested as towns shut down public services and millions of itinerants took to the roads to find work. Gangs would find "undesirables" and make them disappear, and cops would beat up or kill unwanted travelers if they stuck around the wrong towns. On top of that, we had "political clubs" of Democrats, Republicans, Socialists, and even Communists and Fascists running around which were often barely more than mobs of violent enforcers for a particular local bigwig. As the postwar economy boomed and the Civil Rights movement rose in national profile, politicians were expected to weigh in on the prospect of race war. Again, without mentioning the INSANE AMOUNT of blood spilled in the name of Jim Crow, the 50s, 60s, and 70s saw protracted periods of widespread political violence. If you think that the response to Obama or Trump portends impending civil catastrophe, then you should check out the riots of the 60s and 70s.
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May 25, 2017 18:47
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Jaxyon posted:There's been polls done on the forums with hundreds or thousands answering. I'm not a teenager. I'm very old. More than old enough to do alcohol. I go to the stock market all the time and listen to Green Day (the old stuff; American Idiot).
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May 25, 2017 18:48
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Z. Autobahn posted:Any transformational shift in the national paradigm requires the wholesale (or at least perceived) failure of the preceding one. You don't get FDR without Hoover, Reagan without Carter, etc. We're just 4 months into the Trump administration, and Fox News is a ruin, Dems are competitive in what should be 20+ R districts, and every week sinks the Presidency further. Assuming we make it to 2018 without dying in nuclear fire (which, okay, is a bit of an assumption), Trump will be the best thing that ever happened to the American left. This isn't exactly true. Carter and Reagan were both fans of Milton Friedman and implemented neoliberal ideas in policy. Carter took poo poo for it and it became Reagan's signature issue. The left needs not just a republican failure, but genuinely new ideas to energize its base and solicit escaped republicans. It was a short bridge from Nixon to Reagan.
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May 25, 2017 18:48
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Z. Autobahn posted:Here's the thing that I keep mulling over. Let's say it's November 6th, 2016, and Hillary bodyslams a Fox News reporter. At that point, it kinda feels like retribution for Benjamin Ghazi and email poo poo, but I probably wouldn't vote for her anyway. It also really depends on what she did. If it was just a body slam or choke slam, whatever. If it was a stunner or a powerbomb, then I'd still vote for her, bagawd. PenguinKnight fucked around with this message at 18:52 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 18:49
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-alleged-russian-hacker-teamed-up-with-florida-gop-operative-1495724787 I uh, hmm, well OK. E. Basically straight up GOP dude talkin with Guccifer 2.0 about getting dem data, and getting said date via guccifer https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/867792397157236736
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May 25, 2017 18:49
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jeremy posted:To some extent, isn't your argument contradicted by the existence of the Bernie or Bust mindset? Obviously people exist who DO change their minds about parties, even today; my in-laws are die-hard lifelong conservatives who voted against Trump in disgust. My point isn't that NO ONE would change their minds. My point is that pointing to the fact that plenty of Rs still do support Gianforte even after this doesn't reveal anything more interesting than 'partisans gonna partisan' which isn't new or meaningful. Nixon was still pulling solid Republican support a week before he got impeached.
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May 25, 2017 18:49
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Not to parrot what's already been said, but that isn't remotely true. Even without looking at Jim Crow, or the MASSIVE figures of decades'-worth of brutal race/sexuality/gender-based violence that have been normalized or brushed under the rug of history, the US has had several periods of serious political violence and unrest since the civil war. Political violence is absolutely nothing new in our nation's history, for sure. But I'm not sure if that's been reflective of instability and gridlock at the highest levels of politics since the 1850s. For the most part, the two parties were able to pass legislation and cooperate (even if that cooperation was very much at the expense of minorities and political dissidents). Political polarization now seems to filter into every aspect of every person's life, not just the disenfranchised fighting for justice.
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May 25, 2017 18:50
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Can I imagine it was Sean Hannity and he died? But maybe it wasn't a clean kill, and he thrashed around in pain for a bit, struggling to breathe as his lungs filled with blood? 
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May 25, 2017 18:51
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Z. Autobahn posted:That's absolutely true, but it's not what I'm talking about; I'm talking about the posturing that the fact that Rs aren't abandoning Gianforte en masse is a sign of the death of the Republic, and not partisanship-as-usual. Sure, it would be wildly out of the ordinary for a Dem to deck a Fox News reporter, but if it did happen, it wouldn't make us all suddenly change our party allegiance; that doesn't make us all bad people or the nation doomed. The issue with your comparison is that if HRC had body slammed a reporter, many would still vote for her to vote against Donald Trump. If it happened in a primary, or against a more reasonable Republican opponent, you would see Dems dropping her like a hot coal. Context is important.
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May 25, 2017 18:51
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I need some loving news STAT.
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May 25, 2017 18:51
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I'm not a teenager. I'm very old. More than old enough to do alcohol. I go to the stock market all the time and listen to Green Day (the old stuff; American Idiot). This is a very good post and it makes me like you as a person. prom candy posted:I need some loving news STAT. We must wait for 6pm EST. The Drama Hour.
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May 25, 2017 18:52
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Hobo Clown posted:A friend on Facebook the other day posted a question asking "How has Trump personally affected you in the last 123 days?" to make the point that everyone is overreacting about Trump & the Republicans. If anyone posted something like "They're trying to take away my health care", "They're destroying the planet" he'd respond with this smug "I'm not talking about what MIGHT happen, I'm talking about NOW. People are getting hysterical and nothing is changing!" "He made me realize at least one of my friends is a loving idiot." should have been your answer.
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May 25, 2017 18:52
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business hammocks posted:This isn't exactly true. Carter and Reagan were both fans of Milton Friedman and implemented neoliberal ideas in policy. Carter took poo poo for it and it became Reagan's signature issue. Carter's the reason I added the parenthetical "or at least perceived". Regardless of what he actually did, Carter was certainly perceived as a massive failure, at a time when the New Deal paradigm was destabilized, and his perceived failures paved the way for Reagan's 44-state victory and the mandate necessary to enact the Conservative paradigm we've been living in ever since.
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May 25, 2017 18:52
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SpeakSlow posted:On to other news, watch the video of Trump berating the assembled NATO group like they were in a school assembly. They literally can't believe what they're hearing. You can't tease that and not post a link, sir/madam! 
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May 25, 2017 18:53
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Sloober posted:https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-alleged-russian-hacker-teamed-up-with-florida-gop-operative-1495724787 https://twitter.com/kristoncapps/status/838259900627156992/photo/1
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May 25, 2017 18:53
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RandomBlue posted:"He made me realize at least one of my friends is a loving idiot." should have been your answer. Yes reply with this
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May 25, 2017 18:53
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Are there any exist polls for Quist yet? I'm dying here
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May 25, 2017 18:55
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Sloober posted:https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-alleged-russian-hacker-teamed-up-with-florida-gop-operative-1495724787 Welp.
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May 25, 2017 18:55
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Sexual Aluminum posted:Are there any exist polls for Quist yet? I'm dying here It's not even noon in Montana.
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May 25, 2017 18:55
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twice burned ice posted:The issue with your comparison is that if HRC had body slammed a reporter, many would still vote for her to vote against Donald Trump. The vote in Montana isn't a primary??? Also, tbh, I'd still vote for Body-Slamming Hillary before literally any candidate who ran in the R primary in 2016, and I think most of this thread would probably do the same.
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May 25, 2017 18:55
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Trabisnikof posted:Diamond Joe would deck a reporter that made fun of his Grand Am. He'd be right to do so. 
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May 25, 2017 18:56
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Z. Autobahn posted:No, I know, I'm not trying to say "both sides are equally bad", obviously Republicans are vastly worse. I'm just saying, I see some posturing like "how could ANYONE vote for a candidate who assaults a reporter, our nation is DOOMED" when most of us would still pull the lever for a D who did the same. It speaks more to me about how insanely divided the two parties are, and how incredibly hard it would be to get someone who's politically passionate to change their mind.
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May 25, 2017 18:57
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If we can get away from this stupid hypothetical. https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/867801107447336960 quote:NBC News: 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has upheld the nationwide block Trump's travel ban executive order, @PeteWilliamsNBC reports
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May 25, 2017 18:57
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Even within the context of my Narrativist Framework we are a long ways off from actual civil war. We are however on a concerning trajectory at the moment in terms of the trend of steady radicalization we are experiencing within a not-insignificant portion of our population at present. While violence in American politics is not particularly new and there have been examples of violence in the past, there was never the presence of such a large number of high-compaction Narrativists who had become completely detached from reality while uniting behind a strongman with a clear Cluster-B personality disorder. So historical comparisons would only be valid if there had been a precedent along the lines of the American Party ("Know Nothing's) seizing control of all 3 branches of Gov't while remaining blindly devoted to a scandal-ridden strongman.Wikipedia posted:
I would argue that we are indeed in unprecedented historical territory and that dismissing the present danger to Democracy this the situation presents is exactly the sort of error that intellectuals have committed over and over throughout history whenever Narrativists begin seizing control of a society. For context the following post was written on September 24th, 2016. At the time it was still widely expected that Hillary would easily win the election and as a result I had not seriously considered the implications of what a Trump victory could mean at the time. This was written with the expectation that Hillary's victory would result in the overall number of Narrativists in society decreasing while a very tiny number of them went violent in reaction. Trump's victory changed these expectations dramatically because for a long period of time Narrativism spread rapidly throughout the GOP base and the total numbers of Narrativists increased to an unknowable degree. Within the context of this post "Artisans" are representatives of another spectrum of a "Self Replicating Behavior Pattern"- which is what I categorize Narrativism as. One of the key defining attributes of Artisans is their constant need to experience novel variations of anything that catches their interest. Asa result of this the intellectuals that naturally emerge in a given society tend to score very highly on the spectrum of Artisans. Normally Artisans and Narrativists do not have any particular interaction;however, there is a specific situation wherein which a particular social interaction between Narrativists and Artisans becomes highly probable. This is the situation that I call a "Narrativist Wave Event", or the process wherein Narrativists seize control of society during a period wherein large numbers of Narrativists are rapidly and observably becoming more highly compacted. The variation-seeking behavior of Artisans eventually makes them stand out as easy targets for compaction cycles that have often evolved well beyond the point of simply forcing someone out of your weird little club. Prester Jane posted:Yes, this is correct. Although Narrativism and the Artisan pattern can co-exist at low levels of Compaction, at higher levels the two patterns become incompatible. I want to emphasize that even within the context of my work we a re a very long ways off from any points of no return and that we are further a long ways off from seeing any sort of worse-case scenarios come to pass. We are however at a point wherein we should have a serious discussion about the path we are on and what steps we can collectively take to minimize the pontential for worst-case scenario playing out. So please I beg of you all do not use my work as a pretext to Arzy or post "lol nothing matters" I personally view you as at the very least unhelpful in the present situation if not an outright hindrance to progress. In my view our collective interests would be best served by having a frank and candid discussion about the gravity of the situation without resorting to the (genuinely and understandably tempting) intellectual escape routes of nihilism or despair. We are goddamned Americans and our people have survived every crises before this. What does not matter is how or why our generation has become tasked with the problem of navigating the present situation with an aim of preserving our ideals and institutions, nor does it matter what anyone thinks of the probability of success of our collective endeavor. What matters right now is what we can figure out about how we can come together and do something meaningful about it. Giving in to despair or gnashing of teeth is exceptionally counterproductive at present in my view- I'm interested inn doing poo poo not in quaking in fear about it. Doing poo poo requires first a long hard look at reality, but it does not justify shrinking in fear from what the abyss holds when you must of necessity glimpse into it. Look at it, don't blink. Then look away and have a frank discussion about what to do about it.
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May 25, 2017 18:57
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Z. Autobahn posted:No, I know, I'm not trying to say "both sides are equally bad", obviously Republicans are vastly worse. I'm just saying, I see some posturing like "how could ANYONE vote for a candidate who assaults a reporter, our nation is DOOMED" when most of us would still pull the lever for a D who did the same. It speaks more to me about how insanely divided the two parties are, and how incredibly hard it would be to get someone who's politically passionate to change their mind. If a Democratic candidate chokeslammed a reporter who was asking them about taking health care from 20 million people I would not vote for them.
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May 25, 2017 18:59
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Edit: Double post?
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May 25, 2017 18:59
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This loving guy. https://twitter.com/calvinstowell/status/867758381884485633 Oops, just saw someone else posted it on the last page. My bad.
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May 25, 2017 19:00
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Breaking: 4th circuit upholds the injunction against the muslim ban edit: basically agreed with the lower court judge who said that yeah, the travel ban is not discriminatory against muslims on its face, but all you have to do is open your eyes and ears, listen to what Trump said in the campaign, and its obvious that its a muslim ban.
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May 25, 2017 19:00
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Kilroy posted:To be fair, if an establishment Dem choke-slammed a reporter I'd threaten to vote socialist forever, but if Bernie Sanders did it I'd probably complain that more establishment Democrats aren't following his lead. If Bernie Sanders bodyslammed Sean Hannity, we would be crowning him Emperor of the Galaxy. EDIT: We've entered 'not all dems' territory, so I officially regret this derail. I'll instead just focus on the fact that I agree with PJ about how nihilistic despair is as useless as complacent optimism.
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May 25, 2017 19:01
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