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e X posted:Wow, talk about a product of its time. George W Bush and Gordon Brown are the heroic leaders of the free world, at least at the start. There's a scene where a succubus tries to seduce Bill Clinton and he blows its head off with a shotgun.
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May 25, 2017 12:40
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:isn't this essentially the premise for 90% of stuff featuring fantasy races vs humans? Even Paradise Lost kind of hints at it Sorta? But I'd really like to see a take on what I described without turning it into World of Warcraft or Left Behind Meets Spawn or something.
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May 25, 2017 12:55
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:isn't this essentially the premise for 90% of stuff featuring fantasy races vs humans? Even Paradise Lost kind of hints at it There are similar themes in fantasy, but not quite the same. Usually what happens is that humans get to become dominant in the world via a combination of fecundity and ambition (and it's also often said that these two qualities make up for their relatively short lives). Sometimes you also get that thing where the humans invent gunpowder and siege weapons and the other fantasy races, and sometimes it's also that that technological edge makes up for an inability to use magic, but in either case I think such tropes aren't "90%" common in fantasy tales.
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May 25, 2017 13:03
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Screaming Idiot posted:That's actually an awesome premise. The final battle between Heaven and Hell begins, both sides are still using ancient weaponry, both sides get their asses kicked in with modern tech, and thus mankind proves why they are the favored creations of god, because they're able to grow and innovate and change while demons and angels are immortal and stagnant. There could even be a sequel where demons and angels unite to break free of the iron grip of humanity. Pratchett and Gaiman's Good Omens is roughly the bit in bold, but written for laughs. It's one of the few collaborations I've read where the result feels like a successful 50:50 hybrid of each author's style. Not a bad book at all. As always with anything touched by the hand of Pratchett, Hell is a demented bureaucracy...and Heaven is also a demented bureaucracy, but far more condescending.
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May 25, 2017 15:40
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Carnival of Shrews posted:Pratchett and Gaiman's Good Omens is roughly the bit in bold, but written for laughs. It's one of the few collaborations I've read where the result feels like a successful 50:50 hybrid of each author's style. Not a bad book at all. As always with anything touched by the hand of Pratchett, Hell is a demented bureaucracy...and Heaven is also a demented bureaucracy, but far more condescending. It's also the premise of Pratchett's Mort where hell is transformed into the bureaucratic nightmare where the Sisyphus analogy is forced to read he unhealthy and unsafety rules of pushing a boulder.
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May 25, 2017 16:33
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Alhazred posted:It's also the premise of Pratchett's Mort where hell is transformed into the bureaucratic nightmare where the Sisyphus analogy is forced to read he unhealthy and unsafety rules of pushing a boulder. That was "
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May 25, 2017 17:48
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Screaming Idiot posted:That's actually an awesome premise. The final battle between Heaven and Hell begins, both sides are still using ancient weaponry, both sides get their asses kicked in with modern tech, and thus mankind proves why they are the favored creations of god, because they're able to grow and innovate and change while demons and angels are immortal and stagnant. There could even be a sequel where demons and angels unite to break free of the iron grip of humanity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JpLtfetD1E
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May 25, 2017 19:05
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divabot posted:That was " Same book, two different names.
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May 25, 2017 21:12
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I'm sure they're terrible, but I loved the Frank Peretti books when I was a naive evangelical teen. One of the pervasive ideas in non-denominational evangelical Christianity in the US is that demons and angels are real and constantly intervening in our lives in a spiritual battle over the souls of mankind. His books This Present Darkness and Piercing the Darkness were all about this, and half the books are about people struggling with sin and poo poo and the other half is about these invisible demons loving with people and making them do things like take drugs and have abortions, while angels would show up and they'd have badass* unseen battles over the soul of Tammy who works at Wendy's. *13-year old boy standards 
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May 25, 2017 21:24
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I knew a guy who read the first Left Behind when it came out, and he thought it was hilarious. His takeaway was that the authors were actually making fun of the ultra-religious fundies that the series is actually aimed at. I've never read any of them, so I don't know, but is it really possible to read those books and misinterpret them as badly as it seems like he did?
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May 25, 2017 21:53
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Dabir posted:George W Bush and Gordon Brown are the heroic leaders of the free world, at least at the start. There's a scene where a succubus tries to seduce Bill Clinton and he blows its head off with a shotgun. I thought that bit was genuinely clever.
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May 25, 2017 22:01
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Dabir posted:George W Bush and Gordon Brown are the heroic leaders of the free world, at least at the start. There's a scene where a succubus tries to seduce Bill Clinton and he blows its head off with a shotgun. I clearly need to read this book.
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May 25, 2017 22:14
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Zamboni_Rodeo posted:I knew a guy who read the first Left Behind when it came out, and he thought it was hilarious. His takeaway was that the authors were actually making fun of the ultra-religious fundies that the series is actually aimed at. Kind of because if you don't have the fundie mind set the main characters come off as the most selfish assholes ever.
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May 25, 2017 22:15
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DACK FAYDEN posted:My memory is hazy. Is this the one where the government installs a puppet Prince of Hell after showing him a documentary about the Manhattan Project to scare the poo poo out of him with what human weapons are actually capable of doing to someplace where the fallout can't possibly spread to Earth? Mine too but that sounds vaguely familiar. Thing I remember most clearly about it is that when Hell first starts sending out its messages telling everyone to bow down and accept their new masters, Gordon Brown replies "shut up, Baldrick" and the demons are called Baldricks from then on. Thinking about it makes me cringe so hard my shins are coming out of my heels.
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May 25, 2017 22:18
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DACK FAYDEN posted:My memory is hazy. Is this the one where the government installs a puppet Prince of Hell after showing him a documentary about the Manhattan Project to scare the poo poo out of him with what human weapons are actually capable of doing to someplace where the fallout can't possibly spread to Earth? Yeah, that's the one. I usually just skip to the battle scenes. Patrick Spens posted:I clearly need to read this book. It's not a published book. it's online. http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=29 The first one is Armageddon.
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May 25, 2017 22:21
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Arivia posted:Same book, two different names. Mort is the one where Death takes an awkward teenager as his apprentice, and also finds out that being an adoptive father is tough. A book I personally found terrible is Timoleon Vieta Come Home, by Dan Rhodes. It's not poorly written. It's just terrible. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/147120.Timoleon_Vieta_Come_Home It’s pretty obvious from the start that sometimes the loyal and good love the unworthy and fickle, and that this will be a tale without a happy ending. I was all set for Lassie Come Home: the grimdark reboot. Bring it. But I was not prepared for the tone of actual Sadism, as written by de Sade, with regard to the human characters the dog encounters on its journey. In places it reminded me of Justine in its enthusiastic, detached way of describing extreme suffering and casual injustice -- except that de Sade was terrifyingly honest that this was how he got his jollies, and this was arch and smug. Life is poo poo and unfair! Haha. No, it's really true. Seriously, have you ever noticed how incredibly poo poo and unfair life is? And so on, for what seemed like a lot of pages for such a short book. It wasn’t poorly written - compared to most of the stuff I've read in this thread, it was quality prose, though not very structured - but somehow I really despised it, in a way I’ve despised few other books.
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May 25, 2017 23:02
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Dabir posted:George W Bush and Gordon Brown are the heroic leaders of the free world, at least at the start. There's a scene where a succubus tries to seduce Bill Clinton and he blows its head off with a shotgun. I think Clinton has a quip immediately before he blows this demon away that the experience of being married to Hillary means that Hell holds no terror for him.
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May 25, 2017 23:03
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The Salvation War:Dabir posted:George W Bush and Gordon Brown are the heroic leaders of the free world, at least at the start. There's a scene where a succubus tries to seduce Bill Clinton and he blows its head off with a shotgun. Wheat Loaf posted:I think Clinton has a quip immediately before he blows this demon away that the experience of being married to Hillary means that Hell holds no terror for him. Dabir posted:Thing I remember most clearly about it is that when Hell first starts sending out its messages telling everyone to bow down and accept their new masters, Gordon Brown replies "shut up, Baldrick" and the demons are called Baldricks from then on. Thinking about it makes me cringe so hard my shins are coming out of my heels. This sounds astonishing. Patrick Spens posted:I clearly need to read this book. I just want Gordon Brown to read it. The Salvation War finale begins thus, apparently, posted:“I, Satan Mekratrig, Lord of Hell, Commander of the Legions of the Damned do hereby declare my dominion over the earth and all that it contains. Crawl to me, humans, knowing the eternity of torment that awaits you.” I dunno if this is real or not but if it never won the Bulwer-Lytton Prize, it's a crying shame. Carnival of Shrews has a new favorite as of 23:40 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 23:36
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Carnival of Shrews posted:I just want Gordon Brown to read it. 
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May 25, 2017 23:44
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Zamboni_Rodeo posted:I knew a guy who read the first Left Behind when it came out, and he thought it was hilarious. His takeaway was that the authors were actually making fun of the ultra-religious fundies that the series is actually aimed at.
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May 26, 2017 00:03
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Plorkyeran posted:That's really the only reasonable way to interpret it without a really good reason to believe it's supposed to be serious. Yeah like the main protags vow to fight the anti christ by taking jobs that put them in close proximity and they just watch as he does some hosed up poo poo. Considering they do their jobs correctly they are actively helpful.
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May 26, 2017 03:13
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Carnival of Shrews posted:Timoleon Vieta Come Home I think you might just have had a very sheltered (book-)life previously? Everything is horrible. What I'm saying is the story didn't really stand out in the way it stood out for you when compared to a lot of modern non-genre fiction  e: I liked The Little White Car a lot more but they're both just short well-written little novels.
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May 27, 2017 01:10
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Zamboni_Rodeo posted:I knew a guy who read the first Left Behind when it came out, and he thought it was hilarious. His takeaway was that the authors were actually making fun of the ultra-religious fundies that the series is actually aimed at. Poe's Law in effect. Eventually, you get to a point where the line between seriousness and excessive mockery is so blurred that you can have either reaction.
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May 27, 2017 22:41
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I always thought that on the whole Angel front an interesting angle to take would be that Lucifer was the only angel with any autonomy at all. If you take the non-canon books into account it seems like the angels are more automatons than actual creatures, as you have the Chariots, (I think) the flaming wheels with a ton of eyes and wings - they are the wheels to god's chariot and nothing more. The Seraphim exist only to hang out at God's throne and sing about how awesome he is for all eternity, which is honestly a very cocky thing for God to have done. The angels are honestly all in lovely positions - if it weren't for the "Getting to Bask in God's light" angle giving them false comfort they'd basically be in hell. Maybe have Lucifer rebel because of being disturbed that the other Angels are trapped in an unending dead-end job. When banished to hell he recognizes that Human's were the same way until the Tree of Good and Evil debacle, and go from there. I guess you could also have human worship rituals paralleling the Angel's behaviour therefore undermining the Free Will thing that God gave them - like unconsiously he put Angel-programming in them out of habit so the Gathering at Churches to sing how cool God is is Human's unintentionally mimicking the Seraphim...
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May 28, 2017 08:07
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zoux posted:I'm sure they're terrible, but I loved the Frank Peretti books when I was a naive evangelical teen. One of the pervasive ideas in non-denominational evangelical Christianity in the US is that demons and angels are real and constantly intervening in our lives in a spiritual battle over the souls of mankind. His books This Present Darkness and Piercing the Darkness were all about this, and half the books are about people struggling with sin and poo poo and the other half is about these invisible demons loving with people and making them do things like take drugs and have abortions, while angels would show up and they'd have badass* unseen battles over the soul of Tammy who works at Wendy's. Peretti is an absolute goldmine for bonkers terrible books. I read a bunch of his stuff from a young age - he's had a few young adult series by now, the one I got started with was basically like super-Jesusy Indiana Jones kids. I mean it sounds trite but I'm pretty sure one of them ended with the kids (and their adult parents/friends) finding an actual gate to Hell itself and closing it after it was inadvertently opened. That is cool poo poo for a kid. His "adult" stuff is similarly really hit or miss. "The Oath" is really awful for a lot of reasons, but kind of interesting among evangelical Christian literature in that the protagonists explicitly aren't Christians themselves until pretty much the end of the book - meaning they have PREMARITAL SEX!!! Also I'm pretty sure the book ends with a guy killing a giant worm-demon-dragon with a spear some dude welded up in a garage by sticking it in the ground and reciting scripture at the worm so it backed up into it. "Prophet" is a four hundred page poorly researched screed about how Abortion Is Wrong. "The Visitation" I remember actually being pretty cool as a horror/thriller book, despite kinda falling away from the ideology of the books by then. Also, "This Present Darkness" was his first book and was honestly pretty cool, if insane from a theological standpoint even on the very face of it. "Piercing the Darkness" was awful and half the plot was "PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE TRYING TO PUT DEMONS IN YOUR KIDS THROUGH TEACHING THEM MEDITATION!!!" This book sold hundreds of thousands of copies and won an award for best fiction of the year.
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May 28, 2017 18:23
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food court bailiff posted:Peretti is an absolute goldmine for bonkers terrible books. I read a bunch of his stuff from a young age - he's had a few young adult series by now, the one I got started with was basically like super-Jesusy Indiana Jones kids. I mean it sounds trite but I'm pretty sure one of them ended with the kids (and their adult parents/friends) finding an actual gate to Hell itself and closing it after it was inadvertently opened. That is cool poo poo for a kid. Oh poo poo was this the one with the giant brass doors or something? I've been trying to remember the name of it for ever. I got it out of yhr library when I was like 10 or something and got most of the way through and realised "aw man, this is Christian fiction". Edit: yes it was "the door in the dragons throat" and reading the plot synopsis on wikipedia I think I abandoned it when I realised it was christian teen fiction. quote:The Coopers, a family of Christian archaeologists, are recruited by President Al-Dallam, a greedy oil sheikh, to journey to the bottom of the dragon's throat, where many other expeditions have met with gruesome deaths, never having unraveled the mystery of what lurks at the bottom. However, the Cooper family have an edge: their unwavering faith in God, which holds up to scrutiny and testing throughout the book. haha what. Powerful Two-Hander has a new favorite as of 02:38 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 02:34
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You have to remember that it's real popular in modern evangelicalism to believe that demons and angels aren't actually metaphors or relics from when people didn't know any better, but that there's an actual invisible war being waged for the souls of mankind. When you see a woman that's not your wife and think sex thoughts, that's actually a literal demon whispering it in your ear. Christians are supposed to be direct combatants in this war, which leads to a kind of militaristic view of faith. Also see the music of Carman for further examples of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AAJNmoxWp0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJiheZ3aEug When I was a cool Christian teen we ate this poo poo up, we couldn't get enough.
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May 29, 2017 19:41
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I kept waiting for Mike and the robots to make comments during those videos.
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May 30, 2017 03:31
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Did you know that the guy who played Quark on Deep Space Nine wrote a book? Did you know it's terrible? The Merchant Prince by Armin Shimerman and Michael Scott tells the story of The plot is really dumb, but it's fairly easy reading and would probably be entirely unremarkable if not for the fact that the protagonist is clearly supposed to be Shimerman - to the extent that the picture of Dee on the cover actually has Shimerman's face. I don't know if it's incredible narcissism or tragic insecurity, but there's got to be something really wrong with someone to write themself into a book like this. 
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May 30, 2017 16:02
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'A novel', as opposed to what exactly? Were people picking it up thinking it was a dvd or something?
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May 30, 2017 19:13
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:'A novel', as opposed to what exactly? Were people picking it up thinking it was a dvd or something? As opposed to a history or biography, I guess. It actually crops up quite a lot in literature.
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May 30, 2017 19:36
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Tiggum posted:Did you know that the guy who played Quark on Deep Space Nine wrote a book? Did you know it's terrible? It's quark's self-insert historical fanfic, I don't really see the problem you have with it.
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May 30, 2017 20:20
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Tunicate posted:A merchant saving the planet from aliens? This if it has Quark saving the world by setting up Earth as the center of galactic banking then I am all in.
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May 30, 2017 22:34
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Darth Walrus posted:As opposed to a history or biography, I guess. It actually crops up quite a lot in literature.
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May 30, 2017 22:50
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To be fair my understanding of book covers is authors usually don't get input on them. I wonder if Shimerman was a special case, or if the publisher asked the artist for it thinking it a fun tie-in?
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May 30, 2017 23:24
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Dabir posted:There's a scene where a succubus tries to seduce Bill Clinton and he blows its head off with a shotgun. So you're saying it isn't entirely terrible?
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May 30, 2017 23:29
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Tiggum posted:Did you know that the guy who played Quark on Deep Space Nine wrote a book? Did you know it's terrible? This is much worse than Scott's screenwriting efforts.
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May 31, 2017 00:36
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:To be fair my understanding of book covers is authors usually don't get input on them. I wonder if Shimerman was a special case, or if the publisher asked the artist for it thinking it a fun tie-in? It may well be the publisher. If you've got an author who's known as an actor it's a way to emphasize that- like I'm drat sure that was done on some of the TekWar books.
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May 31, 2017 01:25
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Tunicate posted:A merchant saving the planet from aliens? SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:To be fair my understanding of book covers is authors usually don't get input on them. I wonder if Shimerman was a special case, or if the publisher asked the artist for it thinking it a fun tie-in?
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May 31, 2017 02:37
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The best self insert novel is Hugh Laurie's The Gun Seller which started out as kind of a memoir but then Laurie said that he thought his life was too boring so instead he made himself a spy.
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May 31, 2017 03:10
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