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PittTheElder posted:I miss that thread. Mack Malone thread keeps on going. Unfortunately, because that guy is just bad all the way through.
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May 26, 2017 05:09
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bewbies posted:This work debate has gotten out of hand and I need expert help. Alright, so I'll say the shaved ice guy is out of the running almost immediately. But seriously, there are a few flawed assumptions going into this. Saying "an expert modern metallurgist/smith" is like saying "an expert sailor/soldier", both because of the explicitly different careers and all the breadth each encompasses from helicopter pilot to accountant to infantryman. If you literally mean a modern swordsmith (a good one, specifically), they won't really be an expert metallurgist, because that is its own doctoral degree. But, given unlimited equipment, even with a 5-day restriction he will probably win because he can use labor savers like CNC mills rather than water powered grinders. The other thing that is implicit in this argument is that the smiths use the steel they're most familiar with, but Damascus steel (the real stuff, AKA wootz, not pattern welded steel) didn't come from the near East, it came from India and Persia, and the Ulfberht swords that have earned particular fame use that exact steel. Yet someone who makes steel is not going to be a particularly good swordsmith, barring rare exceptions, because those are simply different careers. quote:At the end of 5 days a couple of middle aged guys and a very enthusiastic self proclaimed edged weapons expert will put their blades through a series of tests to determine who gets the $10,000 check. What order do they finish in, and why? That said, if you limit the equipment to eg forge, anvil, files, and stones, and make them all use one type of steel, and replace the near eastern smelter with an actual swordsmith I think it's really a toss-up. The modern smith would still have some advantage because the others, knowing how to make swords at a production level, would be more used to only making blades and possibly hilt fittings, and have others do things like hilt fitting and the woodwork for the grip, because people have understood the value of task specialization for a long time. On the other hand there are also tricks that the historical smiths would probably know for cutting down on forge time. For people wondering: Damascus steel was better than other contemporaries because it had such a low slag and high carbon content, but it is still inferior to modern steels. However, people are imagining light-years of difference, but I don't really thing that would be the case. Unless they put the swords up to, like, long-term abrasion tests, or extreme edge retention tests (more extreme than striking a steel drum, like striking a steel block), and maybe extreme bend tests, there wouldn't be much perceptible difference. Modern steels are good but a lot of what makes them better than historical wootz is not at issue. Polyakov posted:Ideally when you form a sword you want a hard edge but a flexible center so it cuts well but wont shatter, the better you can control your cooling rate the more precisely you can get the steel to form the structures that you want to create an ideal sword with those properties. Our understanding of that and the range of quenching liquids (oils in this case) is significantly better than those of historical smiths who would usually just use water. This is in many ways incorrect! A hard edge will still shatter, even if the body of the sword does not, and those stress fractures will eventually travel along the breadth of the sword and break it in two, even if it has a soft back, because cracks like to propagate. There is also this cultish belief, which I blame on whigism, that all of these improvements to the steel will universally make a better implement. But this is not true. Getting stabbed with a Ka-Bar (made out of plain-jane 1095) is about as bad as getting stabbed with whatever nerdroid steel is the rage these days (last I checked it was M4). The advantages provided by more advanced steels largely do not pertain to the immediate concern of them being used as stabbing and cutting implements against fleshy targets. Corrosion resistance, long-term edge retention, toughness for using your knife like a prybar. Also, things like edge retention can be a disadvantage, as anyone who's had to resharpen a D2 blade can attest. quote:The transformation points and the structures of steel that you get can also be controlled via the alloying process, High Speed Steels are a group of steels which are usually used for tooling applications, they have been alloyed with Vanadium, chromium, tungsten and molybdenum and form their own structures within the steel which alter the properties in quite precise ways that we are able to control and design for when we set out to create a steel alloy, so you can edge your sword with a HSS of very high hardness to give it the best possible cutting edge, then make the rest of the body of softer and springier steel which absorbs the shock of impact and distributes it through the blade to prevent shattering. So what you're describing is practically impossible, because the high percent of alloying agents means HSS really hates to be welded. Also lmao at the idea of forging it. And as the name implies, it is designed to be used in machining applications, where high friction would normally destroy the temper from heat. It is not the ideal cutting steel. Cutting through a ballistic gel dummy is not the application it was made for. Again, in those tests I also don't see the advantages of more modern steels (like say 5160) mattering. Edit: the more I think about it the worse HSS is. Even M1 hates to flex, something swords do a lot. quote:Essentially we have a much greater range of alloying and production methods which allow us to say exactly what it is that we want from an alloy and then create it, historical smiths did not. So we are assuming the modern smith is going to run a steel mill by himself here, or what? Rodrigo Diaz fucked around with this message at 10:36 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 10:19
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:So we are assuming the modern smith is going to run a steel mill by himself here, or what?
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May 26, 2017 10:47
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evil_bunnY posted:Hes going to pick up his phone. Pretty sure calling in outside help is against the rules m8
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May 26, 2017 10:59
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This is the most boring episode of Iron Chef i've ever heard of
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May 26, 2017 11:35
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MikeCrotch posted:This is the most boring episode of Iron Chef i've ever heard of Forged in fire is not a good show.
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May 26, 2017 12:07
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in summary, this is a silly question like who would win, samurai vs legionaries, when it comes down to a myriad of factors decided before and outside the battle (legionaries would win, just from the discipline and professionalism alone)
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May 26, 2017 12:09
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imagine, if you will a samurai and a legionary, dropped naked into a featureless white room personally, I think they're more likely to gently caress than fight
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May 26, 2017 12:16
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Nah, I think Samurai would win. Samurai were a warrior elite while Roman legionaries were just regular soldiers. The Romans got their asses beaten many times in history, but they could just drum up some more troops.
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May 26, 2017 12:37
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#thetriggering
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May 26, 2017 12:41
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Grevling posted:Nah, I think Samurai would win. Samurai were a warrior elite while Roman legionaries were just regular soldiers. The Romans got their asses beaten many times in history, but they could just drum up some more troops. Not in the form of a haiku, disqualified.
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May 26, 2017 12:42
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Grevling posted:Nah, I think Samurai would win. Samurai were a warrior elite while Roman legionaries were just regular soldiers. The Romans got their asses beaten many times in history, but they could just drum up some more troops. They beat the poo poo out of themselves pretty frequently too
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May 26, 2017 12:44
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Pretty sure calling in outside help is against the rules m8 To be fair, a lot of modern civilisation is "outside help" like this. Like, if I want to know what kind of number in my datasheet corresponds to what kind of alloy, I have to at least look this up in my Metallbuch (sorry, don't know the English term for this, it's some sort of dictionary for alloys and other technical crap). So I would allow a modern smith to look up the right alloy for what he wants to do, and then order it from whatever corporation makes it. After all, this kind of thing is also a part of what makes the modern in modern smith. 
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May 26, 2017 12:59
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Phobophilia posted:in summary, this is a silly question like who would win, samurai vs legionaries, when it comes down to a myriad of factors decided before and outside the battle Samurai fight with pike and shot, as God intended.
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May 26, 2017 13:08
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deadliest warrior was a cool show. also very stupid, and inaccurate a lot of the time, but cool.
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May 26, 2017 13:16
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the JJ posted:Samurai fight with pike and shot, as God intended. Well, the soldiers of 
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May 26, 2017 13:19
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Jamwad Hilder posted:deadliest warrior was a cool show. also very stupid, and inaccurate a lot of the time, but cool. They really just wanted to hit things with weapons but got bored of soda bottles/dead pigs and their mothers were angry at the mess on the carpets every drat time!
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May 26, 2017 13:26
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SeanBeansShako posted:They really just wanted to hit things with weapons but got bored of soda bottles/dead pigs and their mothers were angry at the mess on the carpets every drat time! I liked the squad vs squad battles where it was dumb poo poo like "George Washington and 5 guys stumble upon Napoleon and 5 of his guys"
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May 26, 2017 13:28
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Let me guess, Old Guard against Minutemen? Was it inconclusive because technically that is the same era? SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 13:43 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 13:31
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I don't think anything can top the IRA vs Taliban episode.
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May 26, 2017 13:35
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GotLag posted:I don't think anything can top the IRA vs Taliban episode. It's just the loving fight in a grimy run down car park in this weird fantasy eighties northern Ireland which the Taliban have somehow traveled back in time that pretty much seals the deal. I like to think the fight was started over a spilled pint or accidentally crushed packet of crisps.
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May 26, 2017 13:43
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Does anyone have a link to that askhistorians thing about the DAK committing war crimes in africa? I swear I've read it before and I can't find it.
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May 26, 2017 13:43
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GotLag posted:I don't think anything can top the IRA vs Taliban episode. didn't one of them have a slingshot for a secret weapon? not a sling, a slingshot.
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May 26, 2017 13:43
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SeanBeansShako posted:Let me guess, Old Guard against Minutemen? For the last season they switched to pitting famous generals against each other for some reason. So you got stuff like...well I'm just going to post the list because its good: George Washington vs Napoleon Joan of Arc vs William the Conqueror US Army Rangers vs North Korean Special Ops Genghis Khan vs Hannibal Saddam Hussein vs Pol Pot Theodore Roosevelt vs Lawrence of Arabia Ivan the Terrible vs Hernan Cortes Crazy Horse vs Pancho Villa French Foreign Legion vs Gurkhas Vampires vs Zombies GotLag posted:I don't think anything can top the IRA vs Taliban episode. There was Nazi SS vs Viet Cong I think Jamwad Hilder fucked around with this message at 13:49 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 13:45
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It's cool the bored kid on the playground who was always asking you who'd beat who actually managed to make something of it as an adult at least.
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May 26, 2017 13:48
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Forged in fire is not a good show. what the gently caress
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May 26, 2017 13:49
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Theodore Roosevelt vs. Lawrence of Arabia  quote:The battle begins on a hillside, where Roosevelt and 4 of his Rough Riders are congregating with each other. Roosevelt looks up the hill to suddenly see Lawrence in full desert garb coming over the hill. Roosevelt distances himself slightly to measure up the stranger when Lawrence suddenly motions with his hand, summoning his Bedouin tribesmen carrying weapons and machine gun parts. Roosevelt calls for his men to prepare the Gatling Gun as Lawrence and his men prepare the Vickers machine gun and fire their SMLE rifles. quote:Lawrence takes a step forward and swings, causing Roosevelt to shout and lunge forward. Lawrence jumps back and counters with two slashes. Roosevelt jumps back and feints a slash, following up with a punch to Lawrence's face. While he is still stunned, Roosevelt grabs Lawrence's keffiyeh and wraps it around his knife-arm and stabs Lawrence in the stomach. Roosevelt pulls out the knife and Lawrence falls down dead. He then raises his blood-covered Bowie knife in the air and yells in victory. It was always a safe bet that the Americans would win on that show.
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May 26, 2017 13:59
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Somebody needs to do a Mortal Kombat remix of those fights on YouTube.
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May 26, 2017 14:05
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The hilarious part of a lot of those "who would win" scenarios is that they can be spun in great ways "Who would win between a Minuteman and a redcoat?" - The Redcoat "Who would win between the NVA and US soldiers?" - The US. But wait - both of those sides lost the war! - because war is more than who can fight the best on the battlefield. I'm reading Fusiliers atm, and there is something I find interesting - Washington wins a victory where he ambushes some sleeping Hessians and butchers them - this is regarded as good tactics. Later in the war, the British light infantry do the same to the American troops, and they spin it as a massacre and a ungodly thing to do. They then turn around and try and do it the the British at Brandywine (IIRC) and get their asses handed to them as soon as the mist clears and the British troops sort themselves out. Propaganda is an amazing thing.
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May 26, 2017 14:19
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Grey Hunter posted:The hilarious part of a lot of those "who would win" scenarios is that they can be spun in great ways Didn't Deadliest Warrior have a NVA/Vietcong vs. Waffen SS episode where the Nazis won?
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May 26, 2017 14:50
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Ok but seriously guys, I got a real question here. A gay black Hitler who identifies as a Katana, or a gay black Hitler who identifies as a tank destroyer. Who would win? Respond with 200 letters or more please.
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May 26, 2017 15:01
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Yvonmukluk posted:Didn't Deadliest Warrior have a NVA/Vietcong vs. Waffen SS episode where the Nazis won? Yeah. It produced this bit I like from Charlie Brooker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sX_Dp6CbT4
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May 26, 2017 15:03
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JcDent posted:Mack Malone thread keeps on going. Unfortunately, because that guy is just bad all the way through. Wingman isn't even up to the pinnacle of craziness, and we've already had the USS Saratoga aircraft carrier (which Mack mistakes for a nuclear carrier) being towed to the Suez Canal in a raging storm as they fight custom seaplane jets piloted by East German pirates living on an oil rig.
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May 26, 2017 15:14
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OK, One Century of the Roman army vs a giant tarantula
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May 26, 2017 15:30
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romans by default after tarantula collapses under own weight after manifesting inside our universe
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May 26, 2017 15:31
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Phobophilia posted:romans by default after tarantula collapses under own weight after manifesting inside our universe Touche Imagine this tarantula has all of its mobility, it can breathe etc. Also, it is big: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_2ouqYZgBs
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May 26, 2017 15:35
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Phobophilia posted:romans by default after tarantula collapses under own weight after manifesting inside our universe Yeah but after a century the Romans are probably all dead.
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May 26, 2017 15:51
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Excuse me while I consult my highly realistic and advanced battle simulator, warhammer total war
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May 26, 2017 16:00
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Please, we all know Rome: Total War is way more accurate.  The samurai get beaten into the dust by flaming pigs.
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May 26, 2017 16:07
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Grey Hunter posted:The hilarious part of a lot of those "who would win" scenarios is that they can be spun in great ways I'm reading that one too (I picked it up with the one about the Riflemen regiments too) and my god that war is hilarious clusterfuck with both sides. My favourite bit is the regimental drama with the broke rear end major refusing to leave or give up his rank because he paid for it dammit! even after Howe and King George ask him. As for the light infantry thing, that was Paoli yeah (if you volunteer in a light infantry musuem you will be cornered by a old member of the regiment who loving loves this story, it is also the reason why the 46th and DCLI have red in their badges) and both sides did those raids during the whole war.
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May 26, 2017 16:18
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