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Jedit posted:Vote defeatism, prepare for fist. We're all going to get fisted my friend, i'm just warning you to keep the lube ready.
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May 26, 2017 15:07
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Labour Peer Lord West responding to Corbyns speech:Lord West posted:They [radical Islamists] have created a narrative and myth that because we are involved abroad, that's why there is terrorism... and that is clearly completely wrong. Translation: the people who do terrorism keep telling us why they are doing terrorism, but they're wrong.
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May 26, 2017 15:07
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Can they not keep quiet until the election is over? loving idiots. Although I do think ISIS are a completely different situation to all the other terrorist factions. ISIS were made by western foreign policy, but I think it is a bolted horse situation. They are basically a violent death cult and I don't think leaving the middle east will actually stop them pursuing terrorism. We've created a real monster and I don't know how we fix it. I don't think anyone has the answer beyond creating a super weapon that can kill all the ISIS members in one go. Which will also include women and children. I think Corbyn and the hawks both think of ISIS as something like Alqaeda who CAN be reasoned with, or in terms of the hawks, have rational goals that can be prevented by the use of force. They're really not. Regarde Aduck fucked around with this message at 15:16 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 15:11
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jabby posted:Labour Peer Lord West responding to Corbyns speech: This is hilarious. "This is why we are doing this" "No it isn't"
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May 26, 2017 15:19
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Regarde Aduck posted:We've created a real monster and I don't know how we fix it. I don't think anyone has the answer beyond creating a super weapon that can kill all the ISIS members in one go. Which will also include women and children. Not treating the middle east like a giant game of Command and Conquer and instead committing resources to allow the affected peoples to rebuild their countries and repel Isis on their own terms would be a pretty good start.
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May 26, 2017 15:20
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Regarde Aduck posted:Can they not keep quiet until the election is over? loving idiots. When/if there's another war actually fixing the place they broke would be good.
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May 26, 2017 15:21
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Yeah ISIS really do need to be crushed, they're not going away if they're left alone and they are literally committing genocide. That doesn't detract from the fact that we helped create them though. Realistically an international UN peacekeeping force could be the only option, but it would require a lot more resources than are currently available. Any national intervention by specific western countries (including russia) would almost certainly play into their hands.
ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 15:29 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 15:22
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MrFlibble posted:We're all going to get fisted my friend, i'm just warning you to keep the lube ready.
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May 26, 2017 15:26
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Yeah, you're looking at a level of investment similar to postwar Germany if you want a proper repair job at this point. But it feels like the only way out of this mess.
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May 26, 2017 15:28
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mfcrocker posted:Imagine being a Lib Dem in 2017. Imagine supporting that jibbering chimp as party leader. "We live in a nasty world with an anarchic international situation. You have to be willing to use your armed forces to advance British objectives. You have to be willing to press the Red Button. You have to be tough on terrorism." A quote from Thatcher, or a quote from a Lid Dem doorknocking friend of mine, you decide.
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May 26, 2017 15:39
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Watching the mail scramble to criticise Corbyn's speech is pretty amazing as they argued in their editorial on Wednesday that increased funding for the police and intelligence services was needed and that Cameron's intervention in Libya was directly to blame for the attack. All they have is "we don't like the guy who said it."
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May 26, 2017 15:42
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The Lib Dem heart of dorkness.
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May 26, 2017 15:43
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It is worth remembering, though, that while ISIS is an insane death cult that cannot be reasoned with, there's a reason people are siding with it anyway. Bashar al-Assad has inflicted orders of magnitude more misery and carnage on the people of Syria, to the point where agreeing to work for the decapitation-happy Wahhabist lunatics can be an entirely rational act of self-preservation if you're a Sunni Arab. Also, the FSA, the main opposition to Assad, have been entirely hollowed out and replaced with al-Qa'eda franchises now, so they're a difficult sell. Other than supporting Rojava, which is becoming more and more politically awkward as they become more deeply embroiled in conflict with Turkey (which has an awful government, but is a powerful and important NATO ally), and which has no interest in fixing Syria, only securing its own borders, there's really not much we can do to improve the situation in Syria.
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May 26, 2017 15:45
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Spuckuk posted:"We live in a nasty world with an anarchic international situation. You have to be willing to use your armed forces to advance British objectives. You have to be willing to press the Red Button. You have to be tough on terrorism." is google cheating
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May 26, 2017 15:51
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It's insane that the libdems are now speaking out in favour of interventionist foreign policy. Surely that's gonna completely divebomb whatever support they still have. I vaguely remembering supporting them on those grounds back when they had Kennedy in charge who was the last decent libdem I can remember. Menzies just whined about ageism.
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May 26, 2017 15:53
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/26/ifs-tells-uk-voters-choice-between-undeliverable-unworkable-conservatives-labour-?CMP=fb_gu IFS Says both manifestos don't work financially, for different reasons. Can't tell if this is a legit criticism or not. Obviously nobody knows exactly how much revenue labour's policies would generate, but I'm not clever enough to do the math.
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May 26, 2017 15:54
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The libdems have tried to carve out a niche as liberal war hawks at least since the Westminster attack. For all Farron's QQing about Corbyn scoring political points it's been Farron himself most of all that's siezed on attacks like this to build a platform.
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May 26, 2017 15:55
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spectralent posted:is google cheating Nah
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May 26, 2017 15:59
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They are at taxes.
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May 26, 2017 16:00
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Spuckuk posted:Nah going with your lib dem mate
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May 26, 2017 16:03
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Alright, vote posted, labour for the first time, betraying class interests. Reserve me a nice comfy spot against the wall please.
Beefeater1980 fucked around with this message at 16:06 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 16:04
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spectralent posted:going with your lib dem mate Worryingly correct! Your prize is being smug when they oust Farron for being worthless after the GE
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May 26, 2017 16:05
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So there was apparently a standing ovation at LBC when Hopkins got the boot.
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May 26, 2017 16:05
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Just want to say that I'm appreciate the people in this thread, reminds of the good LF days. But why all the "hope is a lie" comments? We're leftists, we have a different view on how things should be run, we should be allowed to hope as much as we want. The important thing is to work towards our collective goals collectively, to the best of our abilities, with love in our hearts and enthusiasm in our step. Now if you lack faith in yourselves and our collective power, then sure, minimize your despair by being cynical. But I prefer a phrase that came out of the U.K., from an odd source, "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment". 
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May 26, 2017 16:06
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Miftan posted:https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/26/ifs-tells-uk-voters-choice-between-undeliverable-unworkable-conservatives-labour-?CMP=fb_gu Wren-Lewis thinks it's wrong, at least: https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/but-do-numbers-add-up.html
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May 26, 2017 16:07
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This sustains me
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May 26, 2017 16:09
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Ardent Communist posted:Just want to say that I'm appreciate the people in this thread, reminds of the good LF days. But why all the "hope is a lie" comments? We're leftists, we have a different view on how things should be run, we should be allowed to hope as much as we want. The important thing is to work towards our collective goals collectively, to the best of our abilities, with love in our hearts and enthusiasm in our step. It's a reminder that Corbyn is still 5 points Behind on the polls, with two weeks of campaigning to go (which probably will help, but May may start being competent?). Milliband was 6 points ahead at one point, was neck and neck heading into polling day, and look how that turned out.
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May 26, 2017 16:10
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nothing to seehere posted:It's a reminder that Corbyn is still 5 points Behind on the polls, with two weeks of campaigning to go (which probably will help, but May may start being competent?). Milliband was 6 points ahead at one point, was neck and neck heading into polling day, and look how that turned out. If we ran the same polling method from 2015 then Corbyn would currently be slightly ahead or thereabouts, this polling method is more likely to be accurate - although remember that polling percentage is not uniform distribution - he could be picking up votes in deep red districts which doesn't do anything to help.
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May 26, 2017 16:12
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spectralent posted:Wren-Lewis thinks it's wrong, at least: https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/but-do-numbers-add-up.html wren-lewis is technically correct; of course it is Labour which finds its hands tied to public commitment to a balanced structural budget and long-term reduction of the deficit, as a political commitment that even Corbyn dare not defy. this is not 1983, where Labour said: quote:How will we pay for it?
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May 26, 2017 16:14
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ronya posted:wren-lewis is technically correct; of course it is Labour which finds its hands tied to public commitment to a balanced structural budget and long-term reduction of the deficit, as a political commitment that even Corbyn dare not defy. this is not 1983, where Labour said: I think he's at least correct that being able to point out borrowing is done essentially free at present, so it'd be madness not to buy assets with it, would be a good defence.
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May 26, 2017 16:16
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Miftan posted:https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/26/ifs-tells-uk-voters-choice-between-undeliverable-unworkable-conservatives-labour-?CMP=fb_gu The IFS was founded by a banker, a stock broker, investment trust manager & a tax consultant in a huff after Jim Callaghan introduced Capital Gains & Corporation Taxes. gently caress them. They may well be "politically neutral" but they certainly aren't ideologically neutral.
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May 26, 2017 16:19
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Tesseraction posted:Well it's not like his intended policies will ever be relevant. *attacks and undermines Labour instead of the government while complaining about the need for a strong opposition* *divides left-wing vote in marginals* *cynically makes 'anti-Brexit' a key election issue despite realistically having no power to stop it* *vows to go into coalition with the Tories if he gets the opportunity* There's actually a lot of things to criticise Tim Farron for! The milk tableau is inexcusable though
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May 26, 2017 16:19
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https://twitter.com/AJScattergood/status/867497144420380673 Life comes at you fast. May being told of the dangers of police cuts in Manchester two years ago and brushing it off.
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May 26, 2017 16:21
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forkboy84 posted:The IFS was founded by a banker, a stock broker, investment trust manager & a tax consultant in a huff after Jim Callaghan introduced Capital Gains & Corporation Taxes. I figured as much, but that doesn't mean that the argument doesn't need to be exposed as bullshit if it is, for the benefit of people who see this poo poo on Facebook and don't realise that bankers have an interest in keeping things as they are.
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May 26, 2017 16:26
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All pundits: "The terrorist threat today is unprecedented!"
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May 26, 2017 16:30
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Tim Farron decrying Corbyn today has been horribly undermined by his own party, courtesy of perfidious upstart... oh it's Tim Farron https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm151202/debtext/151202-0002.htm Ctrl+F "Kennedy"
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May 26, 2017 16:32
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spectralent posted:I think he's at least correct that being able to point out borrowing is done essentially free at present, so it'd be madness not to buy assets with it, would be a good defence. this is only true if the government borrows to hold the cake and satiate itself on the ants the cake is attracting, rather than eat the delicious, moist cake. it's one thing to sketch this on paper, it's another thing to convince people that this is your plan. Labour would last about ten seconds before orgasming over the prospect of getting to use state shareholdership to shape corporate policy, you know this. the Tories will fire sale assets to Sid, or rather, they'll fire sale the cake to their buddies and give Sid the cherry at a low, low price. of course the public does not trust this government or any plausible British government to have discipline. there are deep reasons why Norway sunk its oil windfall into a sovereign wealth fund whereas Britain sunk it into deficit reduction; these cultural factors still hold sway today - such discipline requires a degree of establishment consensus which does not exist.
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May 26, 2017 16:34
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Ardent Communist posted:Just want to say that I'm appreciate the people in this thread, reminds of the good LF days. But why all the "hope is a lie" comments? We're leftists, we have a different view on how things should be run, we should be allowed to hope as much as we want. The important thing is to work towards our collective goals collectively, to the best of our abilities, with love in our hearts and enthusiasm in our step. There's good hope and bad hope. Bad hope is blind optimism and positivity in the face of likely or inevitable defeat, setting yourself up for despair and demoralization down the road. Good hope rests on the knowledge that we have been defeated, likely will be again, but that we can take solace in and be sustained by whatever small victories we do win. "Hope is a lie" is a terrible, defeatist attitude and I'm frankly sick of hearing it, but conversely we should also be realistic so we don't burn ourselves out staking our hopes on the timid resurgence of a left that's been destroyed several times over even while at much higher levels of public support, class consciousness and organisation.
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May 26, 2017 16:36
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Zephro posted:All pundits: "The terrorist threat today is unprecedented!" Yes, but did you consider that Muslims!!!
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May 26, 2017 16:42
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