Ardent Communist posted:

Zephro posted:

All pundits: "The terrorist threat today is unprecedented!"

ronya posted:

this is only true if the government borrows to hold the cake and satiate itself on the ants the cake is attracting, rather than eat the delicious, moist cake.

it's one thing to sketch this on paper, it's another thing to convince people that this is your plan. Labour would last about ten seconds before orgasming over the prospect of getting to use state shareholdership to shape corporate policy, you know this. the Tories will fire sale assets to Sid, or rather, they'll fire sale the cake to their buddies and give Sid the cherry at a low, low price.

of course the public does not trust this government or any plausible British government to have discipline. there are deep reasons why Norway sunk its oil windfall into a sovereign wealth fund whereas Britain sunk it into deficit reduction; these cultural factors still hold sway today - such discipline requires a degree of establishment consensus which does not exist.

mfcrocker posted:

Tim Farron backpedaling on his outrage on Corbyn's speech at an impressive clip

mfcrocker posted:

Tim Farron backpedaling on his outrage on Corbyn's speech at an impressive clip

mfcrocker posted:

Tim Farron backpedaling on his outrage on Corbyn's speech at an impressive clip

R. Mute posted:

https://twitter.com/EveryoneIsDril/status/868091073276424193

Tesseraction posted:

Is Mark Curtis credible? Because this seems interesting:

https://twitter.com/markcurtis30/status/867412837584523267

ronya posted:

this is only true if the government borrows to hold the cake and satiate itself on the ants the cake is attracting, rather than eat the delicious, moist cake.

it's one thing to sketch this on paper, it's another thing to convince people that this is your plan. Labour would last about ten seconds before orgasming over the prospect of getting to use state shareholdership to shape corporate policy, you know this. the Tories will fire sale assets to Sid, or rather, they'll fire sale the cake to their buddies and give Sid the cherry at a low, low price.

of course the public does not trust this government or any plausible British government to have discipline. there are deep reasons why Norway sunk its oil windfall into a sovereign wealth fund whereas Britain sunk it into deficit reduction; these cultural factors still hold sway today - such discipline requires a degree of establishment consensus which does not exist.

Tortuga posted:

Well he was 16 the time of Gaddafi's death and didn't go to Libya until 4 years later but sure, why not?

dispatch_async posted:

Julio Cruz posted:

You think that after Gaddafi's death all the anti-Gaddafi militias gave up their weapons and settled down to become peaceful farmers?

Tortuga posted:

Well he was 16 the time of Gaddafi's death and didn't go to Libya until 4 years later but sure, why not?

Julio Cruz posted:

You think that after Gaddafi's death all the anti-Gaddafi militias gave up their weapons and settled down to become peaceful farmers?

Spangly A posted:

it's a bad reason to dismiss an idea since it's patently obvious western-backed militias remain, strengthen and rebel (afghanistan being the most blazingly obvious) but the four year gap is a hell of a stretch for british money to come near the guy in all but the abstract

I mean we should definitely want the tories to get beaten with it, but it requires a hell of a lot more evidence than "two things occured at a distance"

MikeCrotch posted:

Someone on my Facebook just accused Corbyn of lazy politics because there had been no intervention in the middle east by the west before 9/11

Pochoclo posted:

Good lord. This woman has to be self-aware, she has to be thinking "haha idiots believing me", I refuse to believe otherwise

quote:

I heard a radio interview with an Irish journalist who met her while doing a piece on her, and it would appear she's an even more vile piece of poo poo in person, hard as that might be to believe.

quote:

From what this lady was saying Hopkins was racist and offensive in an almost casual fashion from the moment she met her, long before the formal interview was to start. I sounded like it took every ounce of self restraint to stop the journalist from choking her within minutes of meeting

Julio Cruz posted:

You think that after Gaddafi's death all the anti-Gaddafi militias gave up their weapons and settled down to become peaceful farmers?

goddamnedtwisto posted:

A thought. We were all surprised that the Dementia Tax didn't seem to hurt over-65s support of Tories, but in the most pragmatic of terms, it'll never hurt them. Who it's going to hurt is their 30something kids who still can't afford to buy their own house and were basically waiting to inherit their mum and dad's place - and these seem to be the people who are swinging Corbyn-ward.

Tesseraction posted:

I thought that polling showed a double-digit swing to Labour amongst olds, it just still had them majority Tory because old people are garbage

deletebeepbeepbeep posted:

If the hope was getting too much this should offer the sweet release of despair.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2017/05/ashcroft-model-update-estimated-vote-shares-seat-new-potential-majorities/

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Saying that Corbyn's argument diminishes the responsibility of the terrorists is absurd. Responsibility/blame are not a zero sum game.

For example if I give a gun to someone who I know is dangerous and they go on to kill 10 people with it I deserve some blame for enabling them, and should not have done so. That doesn't detract from their blame for actually committing the murders.

Similarly if through a series of poorly planned invasions I create a power vacuum that leads to the rise of a deadly extremist group some responsibility is on me and I should not have done it.

forkboy84 posted:

That was the 54-65 demo or something like that. The over 65s are unmoved by anything apparently.

Julio Cruz posted:

You think that after Gaddafi's death all the anti-Gaddafi militias gave up their weapons and settled down to become peaceful farmers?

forkboy84 posted:

That was the 54-65 demo or something like that. The over 65s are unmoved by anything apparently.

Spangly A posted:

it's a bad reason to dismiss an idea since it's patently obvious western-backed militias remain, strengthen and rebel (afghanistan being the most blazingly obvious) but the four year gap is a hell of a stretch for british money to come near the guy in all but the abstract

I mean we should definitely want the tories to get beaten with it, but it requires a hell of a lot more evidence than "two things occured at a distance"

mfcrocker posted:

Tim Farron backpedaling on his outrage on Corbyn's speech at an impressive clip

Andy Burnham posted:

[There's] a tendency to blame governments for everything, and I don't think we should. Actions of governments can contribute, but let's remember 9/11 happened before interventions anywhere.

OwlFancier posted:

I take it that it went well then? I've been at work all day.

jabby posted:

loving Andy Burnham has come out to criticise Corbyn in the stupidest way possible.


You heard that right, there was no such thing as western intervention before 2001.

Julio Cruz posted:

I'm not saying he was directly paid by MI6 but if he was trained and/or equipped by a militia which was founded with British money then there's definitely some culpability there.

e: funding a militia with the express purpose of getting rid of Gadaffi and not thinking about what that militia might do once Gadaffi is gone is pretty clearly lacking in foresight.