Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


I like the kidnap idea myself, but that's because I'm fairly certain I kidnapped Domino from one of my girlfriend's neighbors.

We stopped at her house one night and there was the sorrowful pathetic whining outside so I called for the kitty and he came up to me for pets and then I took him inside and he mom was like "yeah sure you guys can keep him here" and then he was ours.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

mistaya
Oct 18, 2006

Cat of Wealth and Taste

You should probably not steal someone's cat. It's a bit of a bad situation but I would flea med the cat and give it something to eat if it's been left out while he's away, and then maybe tell him that's not an appropriate thing to do the next time you see him. But if the cat is fed/watered and seems happy then it's not like he's being cruel to it. Are you sure he owns this cat and it's not just a stray he's been feeding on the side? Is there something specific to be worried about like a busy road the cat can wander into or lots of predators like foxes or coyotes? Bring that up. Education is better than condemnation.

If the situation doesn't change and the cat is actually at high risk, then consider intervention. But that should be a last resort.

Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Tortuga posted:

Anyone have experience of a cat giving birth to a litter of one kitten? My cat popped one lonely ginger soul out last night just after I left for work for the week and apparently that was that.

The kitten seems healthy and apparently nice and big, It's feeding regularly but the mother does seem to be out of the nest a bit more thatn we would have hoped which is a bit of a concern as I just read single kittens are more likley to be abandoned.

Its important to make sure the kitten is getting taken care off and fed so keep an eye on that, beyond that the only thing to watch out for with a single little kitten is genetic issues, my boy Tiberius was the only kitten to the momma and while he's absolutely massive he's a few genetic issues, mainly small nasal passages leading to bad allergies and sensitive gums, beyond that he's healthy as can be.

Tortuga
Aug 27, 2011


Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Mister Adequate posted:

I have absolutely nothing useful to tell you but SINGLE KITTENS ARE THE CUTEST loving THING :kimchi:

Sorry to break your heart but shortly after posting that I got a phone call. A second kitten had just hit the box! - 22 hours after the fist one.

taiyoko
Jan 10, 2008


Len posted:

Just cover me in kittens. Fluffy, pointy, nibbling, meowing kittens.

:same:

At college I'd always wished that as part of their "de-stress during finals week" events that the school would have the Humane society bring a bunch of kitties to snuggle.

Even now, though, I wanna snuggle some fluffy little kittens.

my cat is norris
Mar 11, 2010

#onecallcat

Tortuga posted:

Sorry to break your heart but shortly after posting that I got a phone call. A second kitten had just hit the box! - 22 hours after the fist one.

Wow! Is that normal? :psyduck:

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


taiyoko posted:

:same:

At college I'd always wished that as part of their "de-stress during finals week" events that the school would have the Humane society bring a bunch of kitties to snuggle.

Even now, though, I wanna snuggle some fluffy little kittens.

I've been trying to talk the office I work into getting emotional support pets for stressful times and while everyone says "that would be fantastic" I don't think we'll ever get puppies or kittens coming in for us to pet when things are going insane

Boogalo
Jul 8, 2012

Meep Meep




If you want to get in some cat cuddling look up your local shelter or SPCA. Here you can walk right in and just pet everything for a while and chat with the volunteers. I can't make the time commitment and regular schedule of an official volunteer so I just go in randomly and they're fine with it. More people playing with the shelter cats is good for their socialization.

don longjohns
Mar 2, 2012

mistaya posted:

You should probably not steal someone's cat. It's a bit of a bad situation but I would flea med the cat and give it something to eat if it's been left out while he's away, and then maybe tell him that's not an appropriate thing to do the next time you see him. But if the cat is fed/watered and seems happy then it's not like he's being cruel to it. Are you sure he owns this cat and it's not just a stray he's been feeding on the side? Is there something specific to be worried about like a busy road the cat can wander into or lots of predators like foxes or coyotes? Bring that up. Education is better than condemnation.

If the situation doesn't change and the cat is actually at high risk, then consider intervention. But that should be a last resort.

Yes, we are next to a busy road and there is a cat mutilator in our area :( I know he owns the cat because a while back I found the kitty outside and brought him around the building until I found the owner. He seemed grateful and confused the little guy was outside. But the last few times I have tried to bring the kitty back the dude hasn't been home. I will try your suggestion but I guess I am miffed at spending 60+ bux of my own money to take care of this dude's cat when the dude shouldn't have a cat if he isn't gonna take care of him. But it isn't the Kitty's fault. Thanks for the advice.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Just got Jellybean home from the vet. She had clogged anal glands but she's all better now.

Understandably she got a bit bitey during the procedure and now I have some nice puncture wounds on my arm. But I can't really be mad.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Len posted:

Just got Jellybean home from the vet. She had clogged anal glands but she's all better now.

Understandably she got a bit bitey during the procedure and now I have some nice puncture wounds on my arm. But I can't really be mad.

You mean the not-serious bitey wounds rather than the proper deep puncture wounds right?

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Organza Quiz posted:

You mean the not-serious bitey wounds rather than the proper deep puncture wounds right?

I mean blood drippy ones because she got a good grip on me but I've had worse from angrier stranger cats. But she's being cuddly and apologizing for it.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Len posted:

I mean blood drippy ones because she got a good grip on me but I've had worse from angrier stranger cats. But she's being cuddly and apologizing for it.

Ok good, "puncture wound" made me think it might have been a proper bite and those will put you in hospital.

Good News Everyone
Apr 30, 2009
Hey guys. My cat has developed a bald spot under his left armpit that he won't stop licking, and is very unhappy about me investigating. It looks raw and pink with a few bumps, but not scaly at all. He's a 9 year old indoor rescue, no diet changes recently, no weight loss/excessive thirst etc, he doesn't have fleas (but I am going to apply Advantage tomorrow anyway) and he hasn't had anything like this in the past. The only change really is that in the last week or so I've been busier and have been away from home for longer periods of time (6-8 hours at a time, he's used to me being around more)

Obviously normally I'd take him straight to the vet but of course this happened when I just spent my savings on some large stupid medical bills, as well as buying new things for my Mum moving into a care home. I know this makes me a trash garbage dumpster fire human being, and I'll try to take out some kind of loan if needs be because he's the most important guy in the world, but I guess I'm asking for advice on how much I should worry?

As far as home care, I've gently bathed the area and applied some topical barrier cream/mild antiseptic for cats, and tomorrow I'll apply the flea treatment. Is there anything else I can do?

mistaya
Oct 18, 2006

Cat of Wealth and Taste

failing forward posted:

Yes, we are next to a busy road and there is a cat mutilator in our area :( I know he owns the cat because a while back I found the kitty outside and brought him around the building until I found the owner. He seemed grateful and confused the little guy was outside. But the last few times I have tried to bring the kitty back the dude hasn't been home. I will try your suggestion but I guess I am miffed at spending 60+ bux of my own money to take care of this dude's cat when the dude shouldn't have a cat if he isn't gonna take care of him. But it isn't the Kitty's fault. Thanks for the advice.

...cat mutilator? :wtc:

One of the reasons kidnapping the cat without saying anything doesn't work that well is that people who like animals tend to get another animal if something happens to theirs. So if this kitty vanishes there's a pretty high likelihood that another one will show up in its place a few months down the road, and you end up with the same bad situation. I would say if telling him there's a cat murderer in the area doesn't convince him to keep his cat inside though, you may want to step in.

---

Re: Excessive licking- a few things can cause that, stress is one of them if his routine's been changed up but it could be allergies too. Is there a new soap or scent in the house (candles, laundry soap, dryer sheets etc) that might make him itchy? Have any cleaning supplies been left out he might have rubbed against? Is he hanging out someplace he shouldn't like under the sink where the chemicals are?

You do want to keep him from licking it if you can, improvise some sort of patch to protect the area or get a soft cone of shame for him if you can't figure anything else out.

kaworu
Jul 23, 2004

Erm, this question might seem odd but I *honestly* cannot seem to get any sort of remotely reliable answer from google.

Both of my cats, Jackie and Sardine, are darkish tabbycats - although Jackie is a bit lighter and has weird genetics and is a polydactyl/"classic" tabby - meaning she has big swirls on her sides, classic tabbies are actually fairly rare. Sardine is darker in color and is a Mackerel tabby, and looks a lot like a *ton* of other mackerel tabbies I've seen, except larger,

Anyway, here is the thing - they both have *black lips*, as far as I can tell, and I am only now realizing this is somehow unusual. Jackie, who often opens her mouth slightly when I pet her a certain way, actually has almost entirely black gums, too, barring a pink spot here or there. And I mean, I've inspected it and it's not any sort of buildup of gunk. Not quite as sure as Sardine - I can tell she has black lips and that's it so far. Sardine is sensitive, unlike Jackie who is incredibly forgiving and will let you do want with her as long as it doesn't hurt. That's why I manually opened Jackies mouth to her annoyance and saw there was more pink than I thought, but the black didnt seem to be from any.. gross buildup of anything, as far as I could tell everything was clean and I sort of just gave a cursory little inspection... plus she has been to the vet and I except theyd have something it meant anything.? I hope,

Anyway I am just curious about this whole 'black lips' thing and how common it is.

Good News Everyone
Apr 30, 2009

mistaya posted:


Re: Excessive licking- a few things can cause that, stress is one of them if his routine's been changed up but it could be allergies too. Is there a new soap or scent in the house (candles, laundry soap, dryer sheets etc) that might make him itchy? Have any cleaning supplies been left out he might have rubbed against? Is he hanging out someplace he shouldn't like under the sink where the chemicals are?

You do want to keep him from licking it if you can, improvise some sort of patch to protect the area or get a soft cone of shame for him if you can't figure anything else out.

Thanks for the response! I can't think of any new allergens that I could have introduced him to in quantities enough to bother him except for some catnip I bought him recently to see if he liked it (he did, he rolled all around in it) but if that was the trigger surely it would affect more than just the one patch? And under his armpit is such a weird place. I know cats can get excessive responses to insect bites so maybe something bit him and it's annoying the heck out of him? My poor baby :(

It also can't have happened overnight because he's licked right down to the skin/the hair has fallen off, so I'm guessing a period of weeks, and because it was such a hidden place I've only just noticed because his grooming became more 'tender' and I checked.

The cone of shame is a good idea, I'm sure I can pick one up at the vet if I explain to them the issue, thank you!

Vampess
Nov 24, 2010
Look at that fluffbutt! (and the shedding, haha):

Vampess fucked around with this message at 19:07 on May 23, 2017

floofyscorp
Feb 12, 2007

kaworu posted:

Anyway I am just curious about this whole 'black lips' thing and how common it is.

It's quite common, don't worry! Nothing bad about it either, that's just the colour of their skin. It's quite normal for darker-coloured cats to have correspondingly dark lips and noses. My Loki is black all over, including his lips, nose and toebeans, and his sister Cinnamon who is a tortie has patchy pink and black lips, a nose that is mostly black except for one lil pink spot, and variously-coloured toes. She even has some tortie-patches on the roof of her mouth! (She did not appreciate my curiosity on that last point)

neongrey
Feb 28, 2007

Plaguing your posts with incidental music.

floofyscorp posted:

It's quite common, don't worry! Nothing bad about it either, that's just the colour of their skin. It's quite normal for darker-coloured cats to have correspondingly dark lips and noses. My Loki is black all over, including his lips, nose and toebeans, and his sister Cinnamon who is a tortie has patchy pink and black lips, a nose that is mostly black except for one lil pink spot, and variously-coloured toes. She even has some tortie-patches on the roof of her mouth! (She did not appreciate my curiosity on that last point)

Heeeeeeeee, I was going to mention my Cassie's spotty calico roof of her mouth too. Spotty cats are so good.

don longjohns
Mar 2, 2012

Yeah the cat mutilator took some sharp object to a cat's tail, another cat's back, and another cat's ear. The neighborhood isn't positive it is all the same person, but I kind of HOPE IT IS otherwise there are more than one :( it was so common to find mutilated cats back in SoCal. I am not surprised. Lot of dangerous, violent assholes in Cali. We are the serial killer state!

And I wouldn't steal someone's cat. That was just frustration talking.

Animale
Sep 30, 2009
Here we just had a guy who would shave cats.

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



Tortuga posted:

Sorry to break your heart but shortly after posting that I got a phone call. A second kitten had just hit the box! - 22 hours after the fist one.

Wow that's quite a wait! But yay additional kittens :kimchi:

Pixelante
Mar 16, 2006

You people will by God act like a team, or at least like people who know each other, or I'll incinerate the bunch of you here and now.
This ball of lint and needles is about two months old. He's a standard kitten.

Problem is, my 2-year-old male cat is awfully rough with him once he fully engages. Kitten has been here for a week, so all they get are a few minutes of supervised interaction before I throw them back to their respective corners. Lots of under-the-door footsies going on, and with the distraction of food they'll ignore each other entirely. The kitten is a little cautious with Snowy, but not afraid. However, if Snowy gets playful and really tries to catch the kitten, there's a berserker switch that goes off and he'll pin the kitten and bite hard. Lots of yowling, and he doesn't let up on the kitten when it's obviously scary/painful. I've gotten a few scratches from pulling them apart, and I'm scared of what would happen if I didn't stop the fight.

Nothing has broken the skin and the kitten doesn't seem traumatised, but Snowflake is definitely strong enough to do some real damage.

Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to make it easier? Best plan I've got is to continue limited contact until the kitten is a little more coordinated--however, if it's a no-win situation, I think it's important to give the kitten back to his rescue while he's still distinctly kitten-y.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Da Mott Man
Aug 3, 2012


Pixelante posted:

This ball of lint and needles is about two months old. He's a standard kitten.

Problem is, my 2-year-old male cat is awfully rough with him once he fully engages. Kitten has been here for a week, so all they get are a few minutes of supervised interaction before I throw them back to their respective corners. Lots of under-the-door footsies going on, and with the distraction of food they'll ignore each other entirely. The kitten is a little cautious with Snowy, but not afraid. However, if Snowy gets playful and really tries to catch the kitten, there's a berserker switch that goes off and he'll pin the kitten and bite hard. Lots of yowling, and he doesn't let up on the kitten when it's obviously scary/painful. I've gotten a few scratches from pulling them apart, and I'm scared of what would happen if I didn't stop the fight.

Nothing has broken the skin and the kitten doesn't seem traumatised, but Snowflake is definitely strong enough to do some real damage.

Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to make it easier? Best plan I've got is to continue limited contact until the kitten is a little more coordinated--however, if it's a no-win situation, I think it's important to give the kitten back to his rescue while he's still distinctly kitten-y.



I introduced a 15 month old male cat (13lbs) to a 3 month old female (2lbs) after the hissing stage they did the same thing with the bigger established cat being very rough, I kept play time to 2 minutes, than 5, than 15. At first I tried to break up the rough play, but if never got better until I just kinda let them rough play for more time as long as the kitten didn't look distressed. It ended up with the larger cat just displaying his dominance holding the smaller kitten down but she never ended up hurt and they are best friends now.


Baby kitten for ref


Big cat for ref


and the result

Tortuga
Aug 27, 2011


Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
Obligatory pic of the two new kittens. You can guess which one is a day older.

Rat Patrol
Feb 15, 2008

kill kill kill kill
kill me now
Hmm yeah, I can tell the late one got overcooked, but the first one is a nice golden roll.

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER
So two weeks ago some gallowsbait arsebiscuit chucked a box of kittens* into a drain near where I live (thankfully the drain was dry) and I've been taking care of them for the past while. Thing is, I'm not sure of what I've been doing, and I really need some help:

1: I've been feeding the kittens around 4-5 ml of milk every 3 hours/whenever they wake up from a nap. Is this too much/little?

2: Maybe connected to the above, the kittens seem to have a very strong suckling instinct. I suspect this is because they're very young; I estimate ~3 to 4 weeks old as of the coming Saturday as one of the only opened their eyes last week. Thing is, for one kitten in particular (not the aforementioned one), the instinct is very strong- it definitely puts me in mind of an addict jonesing for their fix. Just yesterday I had to give him a massive good wash because he tried to suckle on his sibling's butt with messy effect :gonk: Any help with regards to this? I don't have access to stuff like Catsifier or the like, sadly.

3: Are there any more developmental milestones I should be looking for?

*literally, as far as I could tell- the box was on its side and the kittens were strewn about :smithicide:

Boogalo
Jul 8, 2012

Meep Meep




I don't have any advice other than check into the foster and rescue thread there's a lot of good folks in there.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3768887

Also, pics please :)

Schach
Jul 21, 2007
I'm not a monster it'sonlyamask.
My kitten, Bea, was spayed last week, along with her brother Benny. Bea's incision looks great and everything seemed fine but this morning I had her cone collar off so she could eat and she went to try and lick at it. I caught her and everything appeared fine, but now the spot seems to be bleeding. It isn't actively bleeding, I just noticed a small amount of blood, and I am of course terrified for my baby.

Should I be worried about infection, or worried in general? It's been nearly a week so it seems like she should be nearly healed, not bleeding. I can try to get her to the vet tomorrow but I guess I want to know if I should be rushing out to an emergency clinic tonight.

- Age
16 weeks
- Sex
Female
- How long have you had your cat?
About a month
- Is your cat spayed or neutered?
Yes
- What food do you use?
Blue Wilderness high protein grain free kitten food, and a couple types of the frou-frou-est wet food I could find. The two of them seem to have different tastes in wet food.
- When was your last vet visit?
Spayed last Thursday, got some of their shots. Actual vet check up/visit would've been before we got them.
- Is your cat indoors, outdoors, both?
Indoor
- How many pets in your household?
2
- How many litter boxes do you have?
2

Boz0r
Sep 7, 2006
The Rocketship in action.
Have any of you tried putting a GPS tracker on your cat? I want to find out where she goes all day, but I hear putting a collar on them gets them strangled.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Boz0r posted:

Have any of you tried putting a GPS tracker on your cat? I want to find out where she goes all day, but I hear putting a collar on them gets them strangled.

You may find this interesting. They put GPS trackers and GoPros on some cats in an English town and the results are pretty neat.

https://vimeo.com/84794829

DeathSandwich
Apr 24, 2008

I fucking hate puzzles.

CommissarMega posted:

So two weeks ago some gallowsbait arsebiscuit chucked a box of kittens* into a drain near where I live (thankfully the drain was dry) and I've been taking care of them for the past while. Thing is, I'm not sure of what I've been doing, and I really need some help:

1: I've been feeding the kittens around 4-5 ml of milk every 3 hours/whenever they wake up from a nap. Is this too much/little?

2: Maybe connected to the above, the kittens seem to have a very strong suckling instinct. I suspect this is because they're very young; I estimate ~3 to 4 weeks old as of the coming Saturday as one of the only opened their eyes last week. Thing is, for one kitten in particular (not the aforementioned one), the instinct is very strong- it definitely puts me in mind of an addict jonesing for their fix. Just yesterday I had to give him a massive good wash because he tried to suckle on his sibling's butt with messy effect :gonk: Any help with regards to this? I don't have access to stuff like Catsifier or the like, sadly.

3: Are there any more developmental milestones I should be looking for?

*literally, as far as I could tell- the box was on its side and the kittens were strewn about :smithicide:

Are you giving them grocery store milk? You really shouldn't, kittens are lactose intolerant and cows milk isn't really good for them. Go to a dedicated pet store / vet and get kitten formula instead, it'll be better for them in the long term.

If their eyes are just opening last weekend, they are probably approaching week 3. At week 4 it's probably safe to start them in on soft cat food and start them in on the process of weaning them. You'll be giving them less formula and more solid food over time until you remove the formula completely at 8 weeks.

Tortuga
Aug 27, 2011


Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Boz0r posted:

Have any of you tried putting a GPS tracker on your cat? I want to find out where she goes all day, but I hear putting a collar on them gets them strangled.

I tried this, but seeing how far she went just worried me so I took it off again.

Collars these days usually have a stress break mechanism in case they get snagged on anything. Again, worrying when people phone me up saying they've found my cat's collar under a fence.

Hyperlynx
Sep 13, 2015

The continuing adventures of Wolfgang the floofmonster and James the bottomless stomach:

I've been trying to feed James less, to get him to slim down. He's been eating Wolfy's leftovers. I put two empty tissue boxes between the two bowls, as a border, and James, to my surprise, has been respecting it.

Recently, though, I found them moved apart. I thought "oh well, I guess the cat respect for boundaries only goes so far". I guessed he had finally decided to just push the boxes out of his way.

Nope. It turns out James still respects the power of the border, and understands that I don't want him eating out of Wolfy's bowl. He's been reaching over the border with his paw to scoop up food and pull it through the border to his side. Nice try trying to find a loophole, little buddy.

Reynold
Feb 14, 2012

Suffer not the unclean to live.
I want to get my two cats one of those little water fountains. They keep knocking their water dish over lately, and I hear the flowing water encourages them to drink. Good idea or bad idea? If idea good, is there a simple, easy to clean model out there?

don longjohns
Mar 2, 2012

I've got the CatIt fountain. It's really, REALLY easy to clean--comes apart completely. It was about 35$ on Amazon.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


mistaya posted:

...cat mutilator? :wtc:

There's a crazy in South London. I'm only being brief about it here because it's really too horrible.

I, Butthole
Jun 30, 2007

Begin the operations of the gas chambers, gas schools, gas universities, gas libraries, gas museums, gas dance halls, and gas threads, etcetera.
I DEMAND IT
So my partner and I have two blacke cattes, a boy and a girl both under the age of two - adopted from a rescue at the same time, and within two weeks of age with each other. They've both been pretty chill around each other for the most part - some chasing, no super nuzzling but they seemed to respect each other. Lately though, the boy (Bowie) has been somewhat bullying the girl (Luna) - chasing her relentlessly enough for her to get sick and tired of it, ending with her hissing, backing into a corner, ears flat, the whole "I don't like this and gently caress you please go away" signs.

We've got them in for a vet appointment this week as it's a relatively sudden change of behaviour. They've run around and chased each other before but it was always kinda reciprocal before, where they'd flip roles fairly frequently, but now it seems like Luna is always on the back foot. Other than this, though, it's business as usual and they're both totally fine with food, litter, socialising with us, etc.

Cat talk tax:

Luna -


Bowie -

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

I, Butthole posted:

So my partner and I have two blacke cattes, a boy and a girl both under the age of two - adopted from a rescue at the same time, and within two weeks of age with each other. They've both been pretty chill around each other for the most part - some chasing, no super nuzzling but they seemed to respect each other. Lately though, the boy (Bowie) has been somewhat bullying the girl (Luna) - chasing her relentlessly enough for her to get sick and tired of it, ending with her hissing, backing into a corner, ears flat, the whole "I don't like this and gently caress you please go away" signs.

We've got them in for a vet appointment this week as it's a relatively sudden change of behaviour. They've run around and chased each other before but it was always kinda reciprocal before, where they'd flip roles fairly frequently, but now it seems like Luna is always on the back foot. Other than this, though, it's business as usual and they're both totally fine with food, litter, socialising with us, etc.

Cat talk tax:

Luna -


Bowie -


We've got two that interact like that. It's just playing. I've noticed the one who seems put upon actually seek out the more aggressive one to start it, so I don't worry about it. She can hold her own.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply