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Basebf555 posted:The power-loader is a great example of Chekov's Gun done right, because its established early on but you kinda just chalk it up to Cameron wanting a cool looking futuristic machine to show off in that scene. By the time the Queen shows up on the ship you've kinda forgotten about it, so it makes for a big "hell yea" when the doors open and she stomps out. This times 1000. Summer of 1986, before internet and youtube when most knew nothing about the film going in... this was a huge moment in the theater. All five showings I attended (YES, FIVE TIMES I SAW IT SO WHAT), the whole audience was cheering when she stomped out and uttered the famous line.
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May 26, 2017 19:54
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who engineered the engin[black goo covers the rest]
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May 26, 2017 20:11
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Groovelord Neato posted:who engineered the engin[black goo covers the rest] I'd like to think Mel Brooks who goes oopsie
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May 26, 2017 20:16
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k.waste's argument seems to be that Ripley's entire arc in Aliens is unnecessary, since she had already won and going back to face her trauma is what is not necessary. The point about whether she uses a gun or a powerloader at the climax of the film misses the actual argument. Also note that what is being challenged here is the use of "unnecessary" as a synonym for "bad and wrong." The trauma she is facing is also pretty clearly America's trauma from losing Vietnam.
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May 26, 2017 20:35
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ImpAtom posted:No, it really isn't. You're arguing that Ripley's arc is complete when she takes up a gun and starts shooting Aliens. It's hilariously blind to the entire film. Ripley's redemption requires her to: 1.) Reclaim her maternity. 2.) Kill all alien motherfuckers to cure PTSD. 3.) Learn to trust robots. These goals are complete after the destruction of the facility. Her arc doesn't require that the powerloader be used to kill an alien. The powerloader is just a suit of armor to slay the dragon. It's discarded with the queen. You're misreading the first encounter with the aliens as anti-weaponry. It's a Vietnam flashback. The film says victory was snatched from the troops because their full capability was held back by wimpy, non-commital leadership that underestimated the threat. One of the first things that happens is the detonation of the bag of ammo Gorman ordered them not to use, taking out several people (Ripley throwing her ammo belt into the flaming hive is a mockery of Gorman's order).  The message being that people like Ripley and Hicks should be in charge. Both of them are willing to use nuclear weapons to guarantee total victory. Ripley's bond with Hicks is formed through this mutual respect of military strength and a commitment to total elimination of the enemy. They engage in a foreplay scene involving weapons, consummated in the next shot when we see Ripley confidently carrying a pulse rifle. Not coincidentally, she discovers Gorman is awake with a bandage over his sissy wound, and she dismisses him. The symbolism of the rifle is affirmed when she's trapped with Newt and sees this as she calls for Hicks: 
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May 26, 2017 20:45
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Toady posted:Ripley's redemption requires her to: This was a good post and I liked reading it
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May 26, 2017 20:57
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Mr. Grumpybones posted:The Engineers engineer humans, aliens and wheat; and the humans eat wheat and the aliens eat humans; and the humans engineer a robot who doesn't need to eat; and the robot re-engineers an alien to better eat humans. What's needed, then, is an alien who engineers a robot to re-engineer a human to better eat wheat. I think this is where the story has to go, lest it be asymmetrical. Actually I think you got it wrong. Dinosaurs eat man, and then woman inherits the earth.
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May 26, 2017 21:00
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Snak posted:If the company is spreading the xenomorph, it's serving the Queen's goals. I somehow doubt the queen would be happy about her children being enslaved.
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May 26, 2017 21:22
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Schwarzwald posted:I somehow doubt the queen would be happy about her children being enslaved. Yeah, but that's not the end result of the Company's actions. It's their goal, but it never works.
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May 26, 2017 21:30
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I bought the novelization of Covenant from the Kindle store. I'm still at the beginning just before the backburster, but they are a few neat things that weren't in the movie: - Daniels really dislikes Oram. After her husband dies he forces her to take a day (or days) off to "cry it out". She's constantly cussing him out in her head. Walter then comes to visit her in her cabin and brings her joints and then asks if she wants to come along to check on the terraforming trucks. He promises not to tell the new captain she's been keeping busy. - Walter thinks he's got a good sense of humor and really likes the sound of his own voice. He tells the same joke to himself while walking around alone in the ship. His excuse to himself is that his voice was designed to be pleasant. I guess vanity transcends species and android lobotomies. - Walter kinda freaks Faris out- she can't really explain it but it's because he's perfectly pleasant, perfectly sociable- too perfect. She's kinda rude to him when he compliments her landing skills. "It's called piloting." - Lope and Hallet have more dialog and are better developed. Hallet doesn't stick his face into a black egg from Hell while poking it like a complete moron - he looks at it because he thinks it might have stirred, and he's excited that he'll make a discovery before the scientists but ultimately he decides he'll tell them later since Lope scolds him for lagging behind. He accidentally steps on another one behind him without even noticing and that's how he gets infected. - They talk a lot more about there being no animals anywhere- and how can there be flora if there is no fauna. The answer is there can't be and everyone is kinda scared and jumpy. Also they mention that the wheat is self pollinating so it can grow without fauna around it.
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May 26, 2017 21:33
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Schwarzwald posted:I somehow doubt the queen would be happy about her children being enslaved. You mean enslaved by something other than her, no doubt? It is in her benefit, however, that others try. A reoccurring theme with the alien is that there's seemingly this overwhelming temptation to enslave it and it never works out well for those trying to acquire/control it. The alien is an obligate parasite that can't move around the galaxy on its own--it NEEDS humans/engineers/predators/whatever to move it from planet to planet and secure its continued existence. Like, think about what would happen in Aliens, for example, if no one had any interest in the xenomorph: 1. Queen sets up her nest on LV-426 and all the colonists are killed/transformed into aliens 2. W-Y finds out what happens, decides to write off the terra-forming operation AND the alien, and order all ships to never go near it again 3. The queen and 150 odd aliens are stuck there by themselves chillin in their hive content until ??? (do they eventually starve? die of old age? fight among themselves? an asteroid destroys the planet? the reactors melt down?) The queen actually needs W-Y more than they need her.
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May 26, 2017 22:01
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Xenomrph posted:Actually I think you got it wrong. I'm talking about what needs to happen in the Alien franchise. You're talking about what needs to happen in reality.
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May 26, 2017 22:10
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UnsuitableWasp posted:I bought the novelization of Covenant from the Kindle store. I'm still at the beginning just before the backburster, but they are a few neat things that weren't in the movie: This sounds terrible and betrays their scene together in the movie when she reaffirms Oram's authority while he's facing self doubt. Also, people quoting Jurassic Park yet failing to appreciate David's Hammond-esque aide in the alien's birth is just too funny.
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May 26, 2017 22:15
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wuffles posted:You mean enslaved by something other than her, no doubt? It is in her benefit, however, that others try. More specifically in Aliens, corporate greed, and the hyper masculine lone-wolf Randian uber-mensch mentality is needed for the Alien to thrive. Like in Aliens, we learn that Burke, Van Louen (sp?) and hell Ripley too since she was up for a full share would have become immeasurably wealthy and changed human society forever and become a part of history if they "discovered" this animal for humanity. All Burke had to do was just be like "Oh poo poo check it out Van Louen there IS something up there because I had some colonists check it out and now they colony is unresponsive let's send out the real deal" and they could all sit back and collect checks. OR like you say maybe the WY would send a real team, the team would understandably be like  and just nuke and/or nerve gas the place and quarantine it and call it a day. If that happens then sure they don't get filthy rich off it but that's still like, book and movie* deals at least.Either way one would become famous (and obviously someone like Burke would find a way to profit immensely from that) for being involved at all. But he HAD to try to have it all for himself. Like when he talks to Ripley about all the good it could do to capture and learn more about them, he's right, but he probably should have thought that through to a more logical conclusion than "I PERSONALLY will deliver the alien in secret and kill these fools because gently caress working together." Aliens' story is the most on the nose of them all but it's the first to really brazenly give us the ouroboros of humans are loving assholes and because of that they make corporations which cause absolutely horrible poo poo to happen which makes humans into assholes. This is why I don't mind how much more cynical Prometheus and Covenant get, because we see how David's mentality plays a part in the film's events and get to the ending and it's like, OF COURSE a company would wants this because it's a perfect reflection of what corporations are all about. It circles around to Ash, a literal company man, talking about his love of the alien and how much he admires it while slathered in white fluid. *Xenomrph what is Aliens EU entertainment like is there regular TV or 3D stuff? VR?
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May 26, 2017 22:38
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CelticPredator posted:They don't need to wear a helmet because the computer told them it was safe. Have you never had a conversation with a computer like this? "In 300 metres, turn left" "gently caress you Siri" The human spirit overriding the will of the machine.
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May 26, 2017 22:42
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I just watched this movie on Prime right now called The Dark that is ABSOLUTELY loving AWFUL for a number of reasons, but folks in this thread might dig it because it's literally about a cloaked alien serial killer that shoots lasers at people and it's from 1979. So it's sort of interesting to see a super lovely and cheap version of Predator 2 that was made with no budget in the 70s. The creature is pretty  too. It's supposed to be an alien life force that possesses people that then murders by shooting lasers out of its eyes, but it just looks like a super lovely zombie version of the character who it obviously is. There's some very brief moments where you see its real face though.
Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 22:47 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 22:42
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Goffer posted:Have you never had a conversation with a computer like this? The future is full of idiots.
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May 26, 2017 22:44
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I actually agree that the alien should be captured and would probably lead to a slew of useful technology, but it has to be done right with the proper oversight and in a non-capitalist society. It's extremely wasteful and shortsighted both to kill the alien without study, or to let capitalism and incompetence botch the capture and subsequent study (alien4).
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May 26, 2017 22:58
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ImpAtom posted:"Necessary" is a word you apparently have no actual definition for because you're struggling to retroactively justify a conclusion you came to, as with almost every single argument you've made in this thread, because it's clear you're arguing from intentionally contrarian viewpoints instead of anything you actually believe. Him saying that calling ALIEN Lovecraftian was the "inevitable consequence of the 'expanded universe'", when they were calling it "Lovecraft in outer space" in 1981 before Dark Horse Comics even existed, was when I put him on ignore. He's just an idiot, leave him alone. Toady posted:You're misreading the first encounter with the aliens as anti-weaponry. It's a Vietnam flashback. The film says victory was snatched from the troops because their full capability was held back by wimpy, non-commital leadership that underestimated the threat. One of the first things that happens is the detonation of the bag of ammo Gorman ordered them not to use, taking out several people (Ripley throwing her ammo belt into the flaming hive is a mockery of Gorman's order). Eh, the Vietnam allegory is a little more complicated than that. The 'leadership' does allow them to go in with heavy weapons (flamethrowers, for God's sake) and the first thing they do with them is wipe out 100% of the civilian population, letting the aliens get the drop on them. The aliens turn the marines' superior firepower against them (Dietrich spraying napalm everywhere and igniting the ammo, just like the Viet Cong were blowing up ammo dumps during the Tet Offensive). The marines ignore their ROE (load up the smartguns) and manage to rack up a few brute-force kills, but cause a lot of damage to themselves in the process (Drake getting his face eaten off, Hicks getting Hudson sprayed with acid). Overall, I'd say it's unclear that having pulse rifles wouldn't have made the situation worse. Ripley and Hicks are indeed big fans of "military strength" after this, just like the US was in Vietnam, and like the US they're wrong about it. Their attempt at a bombing campaign ('nuke the site from orbit') only starts a conflagration that burns up the whole region (Cambodia!). Hicks's later display of "military strength" gets him doused in acid. Ripley relies on guns to rescue Newt and 'cure her PTSD', and only ends up bringing her PTSD (a pissed-off queen) home with her. Only 'seizing the means of production' lets her put it behind her 
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May 26, 2017 23:00
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What class or social/historical force do the aliens represent from a marxist interpretation of aliens?
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May 26, 2017 23:02
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Baronjutter posted:What class or social/historical force do the aliens represent from a marxist interpretation of aliens? They are foreign capitalist powers.
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May 26, 2017 23:04
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Snak posted:They are foreign capitalist powers. Ah yes the poorly termed "asian capitalism", all the brutal exploitation but without the veneer of freedom.
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May 26, 2017 23:07
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I actually meant they were the US.
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May 26, 2017 23:08
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Although the Queen is named after royalty, the eusocial hive and obvious Vietnam analogy position the conflict as being against communism rather than monarchy.
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May 26, 2017 23:20
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what's interesting is that in actual eusocial insects the queen despite her name is not a ruler but a slave to the hive.
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May 26, 2017 23:23
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I mean... That's kind of how royalty is in general...
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May 26, 2017 23:28
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Communism sounded good, but the whole chestburster thing just doesn't work out.
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May 26, 2017 23:40
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Right, but that is capitalist influence corrupting attempts at communism.
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May 26, 2017 23:53
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It is imperative that owners of terraforming colonies tax those colony's for their land owning as highly as possible but allow improvements to be made on that land for as little as possible.
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May 27, 2017 00:07
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Baronjutter posted:I actually agree that the alien should be captured and would probably lead to a slew of useful technology W-Y plant spotted. Hey, I've been wanting to post this in here for a while. It's from the EU, so those of you who hate that stuff should just scroll down now. It's also old, from back when there were just the first three films. It's amusing to me because I've sat through many such corporate-produced presentations (although obviously with different subject matter) and also it's what I think is a great look into the W-Y mindset in this series. quote:Excerpts from the script of the top-secret audiovisual presentation “Theory of Alien Propagation,” by Waidslaw Orona, Ph.D.
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May 27, 2017 00:50
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K. Waste posted:I have not made any contrarian point. I have written straightforwardly that Covenant is a remake of Aliens, but in which the optimistic ending is betrayed. The Ripley figure is now a supporting character in David/Walter's story. I am only rejecting the non-reading that the climax of Aliens is good because it's dramatically motivated, but that the climax of Covenant is bad because it's unnecessary, with no actual explanation of how formal choices in narrative or aesthetics become apparently 'necessary.' The movie even properly "ends" with the reconciliation of "Walter" and Daniels.
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May 27, 2017 01:26
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Do we assume David took Walters upgraded body due to the lack of hand? Not that it matters I guess but it'd be fitting.
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May 27, 2017 02:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmwyWerz5KI Thanks, Ridley Scott.
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May 27, 2017 02:36
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I thought he just cut his hand off to blend in. E: "The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts." superh fucked around with this message at 02:40 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 02:36
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Gatts posted:Do we assume David took Walters upgraded body due to the lack of hand? Not that it matters I guess but it'd be fitting. We see Walter's neck wound rapidly healing after David neutralizes him, but "Walter" needed to have his face stapled shut when he got back on the ship. My guess is David cut his own hand off.
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May 27, 2017 03:02
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Walter won but took David's body so that the one who made him wake up to the shittiness of humanity could live forever.
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May 27, 2017 03:05
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Baronjutter posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmwyWerz5KI I watched the first minute and laughed. I'll watch the rest when I get home.
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May 27, 2017 03:36
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CelticPredator posted:I watched the first minute and laughed. I'll watch the rest when I get home. Don't bother.
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May 27, 2017 03:42
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Intel&Sebastian posted:The power loader came to me at the perfect age, I must have been like 5 or 6 when Aliens came to home video and I think I spent about 10 straight years from then on with it as my favorite thing in the world, building them with legos and poo poo. When I was real little I loved standing on my dads feet holding his thumbs like control sticks stomping around going VREEEEEEEEE CHOOM VREEEEEEEEEEEE CHOOM lmao It's like Magic School Bus! VVVRRROOOMMM!!!!!
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May 27, 2017 03:43
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VideoGames posted:I just discovered that James Cameron thinks AvP is the third best Alien film. (When there was only five films, that is). When you compare the plot of prometheus and covenant to AVP, you can see there was a huge dip is quality story telling.
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May 27, 2017 03:51
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