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Who's the best drafters last 5-10 years? Thunders? Spurs? Bucks?
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May 26, 2017 16:44
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Metapod posted:my work is done I have found the most thunderiest prospect in this draft and who I have my heart set on: Devin Robinson from Florida. I can rest easy now Sam Presti likes to home in on one of the 3 following player profiles in the draft: overconfident point guard, athletic wing with extremely limited skill, disappointing white big. I've got my money on athletic wing with no real skill set this time around. It seems like internet thunder fans are talking themselves into Semi Ojeleye, but I would prefer to go overconfident point guard.
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May 26, 2017 16:44
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EvanTH posted:Who's the best drafters last 5-10 years? Thunders? Spurs? Bucks? Warriors by far
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May 26, 2017 16:45
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morestuff posted:Warriors by far I was thinking it over and I think it's the Thunders just because Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka period was insane. Warriors had a good stretch but they also drafted Tony Randolph. I'm mostly thinking about who gets actual useful NBA players out of the draft, not who winds up being able to use them effectively. 2012 7 - Barnes 35 - Draymond 2011 11 - Klay 2009 7 - Steph Last 10 Thunder got like 2007 Durant at 2 Carl Landry + Glen Davis in the low 30s 2008 4 Westbrook 24 Ibaka 50something is Sasha Kaun is still in the league somehow? Didn't he win a ring last year or something? 2009 3 Harden 2010 18 Eric Bledsoe 26 Pondexter 2011 24 Reggie Jackson 2013 12 Steven Adams
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May 26, 2017 16:59
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EvanTH posted:Who's the best drafters last 5-10 years? Thunders? Spurs? Bucks? Which is it? 5 or 10? Last 10 drafts includes Durant, Harden, Westbrook, and Ibaka for the Thunder, but also Curry, Thompson, and Green in the 2nd round for the Thunder. Both had big fuckups too though, like Anthony Randolph at 14 when the back half of the first round included Hibbert, Robin Lopez, Ryan Anderson, Courtney Lee, Serge Ibaka, Kosta Koufos, Nic Batum, AND George Hill (and Deandre in the second). Warriors also blew the Ekpe Udoh pick, even if you ignore the wings available at the time (see below) and say they were always gonna take a big, the next pick was Greg Monroe. Clippers got Deandre super late and Blake, but they traded the first overall that became Kyrie, and narrowly missed a dynasty in 2010 when they chose first from a run of three consecutive small forwards: Al Farouq Aminu, Gordon Hayward, and Paul George. In that order. If they'd taken Paul George and then still gotten CP3 the next year, yikes. They haven't had a good draft since. Wizards have drafted pretty well, but it's hard to forgive the Jan Vesely pick. Bucks may take it for the last 5 years, but if you go back 10 then you get huge fuckups like Yi Jianlian (next four bigs in the league were all productive players and one was a short lived star), Joe Alexander, and the double whammy of Jimmer over Klay and Kawhi. Spurs are hard to grade. Of the two best guys they actually took with their own pick, one never played for them and the other was traded for Kawhi, which sort of counts in their favor? The only time they picked 20 or above it was in a garbage draft, but most of their famous talent for finding productive players on the scrap heap hasn't come from their drafts but from making some very judicious D league and low level free agent signings (Mills, Green, and Dedmon to name a few). They also took Cory Joseph one spot over Jimmy Butler. Imagine all those Gary Neal minutes being Jimmy Buckets minutes instead, and weep.
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May 26, 2017 17:24
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I dunno, nailing top five picks (+Ibaka) is significantly less impressive to me than what the Warriors did. Plus Landry, Davis and Bledsoe are all picks they made on behalf of other teams as part of draft-night trades. Has anyone seen any good scouting on Nkilitina somewhere other than DX?
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May 26, 2017 17:27
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morestuff posted:I dunno, nailing top five picks (+Ibaka) is significantly less impressive to me than what the Warriors did. Plus Landry, Davis and Bledsoe are all picks they made on behalf of other teams as part of draft-night trades. There lots of teams that have had multiple top 5 picks in the last decade, but 0 others who took a hall of famer MVP candidate every single time. The picks immediately BEFORE the Thunder big 3? Oden, Mayo, Thabeet. Brutal. Grizzlies picked Conley, Mayo (sort of, they actually picked Love...), and Thabeet in the same situation those drafts. Wolves got Rubio, Wes Johnson, and Derrick Williams a couple of years later. Even granting that Durant was a no brainer, they could just as easily have followed up with DJ Augustin and Tyreke Evans.
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May 26, 2017 17:37
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Bush Did Outer Heaven posted:Sam Presti likes to home in on one of the 3 following player profiles in the draft: overconfident point guard, athletic wing with extremely limited skill, disappointing white big. Yeah that's what Devin Robinson is an athletic wing with no real skill set. The issue with the overconfident pg this draft is who fits that bill?
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May 26, 2017 17:49
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Let's make it 15 just to open up the discussion  I think in the Spurs favor they seemed to know EXACTLY what they were getting with Kawhi. There was all sorts of "he's a superstar make no mistake about it" stuff coming out of their camp I wouldn't hold missing Butler against anyone. He has the most delayed development leap I have ever seen on a superstar. NOBODY gets that much better at his age. Same as you can't really hold missing Manu and Isaiah Thomas against the rest of the league. edit: actually yeah I dunno if it'll be possible to beat Durant 2 , Westbrook 4, Harden 3, that's three consecutive years picking an MVP candidate (and Harden might even win one soon). That's an all-time streak. Compare that to what the Cavs did with three number ones and two number fours (Wiggins, Bennett, Irving, Waiters, Thompson). The rest of the list is probably a more interesting discussion EvanTH fucked around with this message at 18:08 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 18:00
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DeimosRising posted:Green in the 2nd round God damnit you had to trigger me with this. The Pacers could have drafted nut-kicking Draymond Green in back end of the 1st instead of a loving Plumlee!!! gently caress YOU LARRY LEGEND!!!
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May 26, 2017 18:51
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EvanTH posted:Who's the best drafters last 5-10 years? Thunders? Spurs? Bucks? They're probably not the best but Utah has been really really good at mid to late first rounders and terrible at lottery picks outside of Hayward. Every single part of their core except Favors was a draft pick (and they traded for Favors really early in his career). For the Thunder don't know how much credit you can really give a team for picking Durant, that was like the biggest no brainer draft pick of all time. Westbrook where they got him was genuinely inspired though, and Ibaka was a great find late in the first. I'd still probably lean Warriors because of where they picked their stars though.
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May 26, 2017 19:45
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I think we all can agree that the worst has been Charlotte by far.
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May 26, 2017 20:13
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Charlotte loves them some big white guys
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May 26, 2017 20:18
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5 picks for mcdermit
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May 26, 2017 20:18
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C. Everett Koop posted:I think we all can agree that the worst has been Charlotte by far. 2016: no picks 2015: Kaminsky at 9 2014: Dwight Powell at 45 (traded two weeks after the draft) 2013: Cody Zeller at 4 2012: MKG at 2 
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May 26, 2017 20:22
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pubic works project posted:God damnit you had to trigger me with this. The Pacers could have drafted nut-kicking Draymond Green in back end of the 1st instead of a loving Plumlee!!! gently caress YOU LARRY LEGEND!!! Gobert was 27 in the first round. Giannis was 15. The Wolves traded #9 for the 14th and 21st. Logically, any team from 9 down could have had any two of Giannis, Gobert, and Green. In actual fact, by the time Gobert went at 27, Philly, Utah, Minnesota, Atlanta, and Cleveland had each picked twice. Any of these teams, or any team in the top 10, could currently be fielding a frontcourt of the only two serious DPoY candidates. edit actually I"m crazy, Draymond was 2012 oops But any of those teams could easily have managed to draft both Giannis and Gobert which is arguably even better DeimosRising fucked around with this message at 21:48 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 21:39
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Uh I think you'll find that MKG and Cody Zeller are both good actually, and Frank Kaminsky has more win shares than Justise Winslow Charlotte's definitely bottom five but the Kings post-Cousins and Orlando are up there
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May 26, 2017 21:40
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I'd like to throw in the Houston Basketball Rockets in the ring for good drafting, specifically Morey manages to get rotation minutes out of guys and then somehow get out before they become horrible. Thunder/Warriors probably have the best but if you go on from that to who's been hitting on those mid to late first rounders and second rounders, there's Utah, San Antonio, Houston, Milwaukee. Being bad at drafting also implies that you were at least smart enough to hang onto your picks or get more so as bad as Cleveland and Charlotte have done they're still doing better than the New York teams imo
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May 26, 2017 21:42
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How much of the bad picks/teams would you guys attribute to bad selections versus bad coaching/training and environment?
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May 26, 2017 21:44
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Kings are a great mix of bad environment and bad pick.
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May 26, 2017 21:46
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It's funny how so many fans are saying we are good at drafting now because Skal looked good and Papa John and Malachi logged a small amount of NBA minutes
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May 26, 2017 21:47
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The Hornets' culture has been a positive under Clifford, but apparently when it comes to the draft there's a lot of (terrible) voices in the room
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May 26, 2017 21:48
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iamsosmrt posted:How much of the bad picks/teams would you guys attribute to bad selections versus bad coaching/training and environment? I don't think there's any way for us to know. Like, is Chip Engelland really a miracle worker, or is Kawhi so smart and dedicated he would have fixed his jumper anywhere? Would he be Kawhi, or would he be something more like a healthier MKG? Would Giannis have blossomed on a team that tried to use him primarily at the 4? Or would Ricky Rubio be the best point guard in the league if he'd ended up in San Antonio? No way to even begin to know the answer
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May 26, 2017 21:54
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Bush Did Outer Heaven posted:disappointing white big COLE ALDRICH IS A TREASURE, DAMMIT
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May 26, 2017 22:54
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DeimosRising posted:I don't think there's any way for us to know. Like, is Chip Engelland really a miracle worker, or is Kawhi so smart and dedicated he would have fixed his jumper anywhere? Would he be Kawhi, or would he be something more like a healthier MKG? Would Giannis have blossomed on a team that tried to use him primarily at the 4? Or would Ricky Rubio be the best point guard in the league if he'd ended up in San Antonio? No way to even begin to know the answer I remember we tried our best to sort out an answer to "who goes from bad three or no three to three," and after combing b-ref it was nearly always someone who shot a good percentage on 2's and scored at an above average starterish rate.
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May 26, 2017 23:08
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Dejan Bimble posted:I remember we tried our best to sort out an answer to "who goes from bad three or no three to three," and after combing b-ref it was nearly always someone who shot a good percentage on 2's and scored at an above average starterish rate. Even so, that's more like a prerequisite than a foundation - most guys who fit the criteria probably still don't develop reliable NBA threes
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May 27, 2017 00:58
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DeimosRising posted:Even so, that's more like a prerequisite than a foundation - most guys who fit the criteria probably still don't develop reliable NBA threes No doubt, I'm just saying that's lullerararallayyyy the only link we could find. Betting on it is a like putting a dollar in the slot machine, not expertly playing baccarat. It's hard to know what exactly will happen when a player is confronted with NBA length and athleticism. Are they savvy enough to take the hop, or learn the hop, can they handle the ball well enough to get some space, even if they're a spot up shooter they need the phantom of a handle to stop the defender from an uncontrolled close out. Are they tall enough, are their arms long enough, do they jump quick enough, is their release fast enough, to get to the starting points of shooting a respectable %? Then you get into all the mental stuff that we don't have any sort of feel for because we're watching them 3 steps removed. The guys who stick in the league despite not shooting and not being huge are really good at basketball, but are increasingly difficult to justify playing for real minutes in the most important games. The Cavs all shooting lineup + TT is just not fair. What is interesting, though, is that it seems to take longer for wings to emerge as real NBA talents than it does bigs (bigs stick out due to height, of course) and longer than guards, I suppose because wings have the ball less and there's a jumble of 6'5-6'9 guys who do various things in various ways in various systems. Older Wing scouting is how you find the buried treasure in the draft. Second is international big men late in the first. Third is combo forwards in the early 2nd. Fourth is sophmore guards in the early lottery but that's barely buried, lightly coated with sand maybe Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 04:31 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 04:29
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There is a light coating of shed skin cells on athletic hand freak kids who have possibly not heard of basketball but also grew up poor and smart. Poor nerds are excellent learners
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May 27, 2017 05:49
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The only good drafter the Wolves had in the last ten years is dead 
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May 27, 2017 05:50
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DeimosRising posted:There is a light coating of shed skin cells on athletic hand freak kids who have possibly not heard of basketball but also grew up poor and smart. Poor nerds are excellent learners These are my favourite gambles in the draft outside the top ten or so. 6'11" with a 7'6" wingspan and freakish agility that but picked up a basketball for the first time at age 15? Sign me up! 5% chance you get Hakeem, Giannis, Mutombo, Embiid, 95% chance you are laughed at for the next decade for picking him. I feel like guys like that either turn into multiple all-star franchise centrepieces, or are out of the league inside three years. So at least they don't clog up your roster and cap room as a replacement level rotation player like a lot of failed top picks do. Actually, like how Dirk's success meant for about five years around the turn of the century everyone was drafting 'next Dirk' tall Europeans with a jump shot types, maybe Giannis' success means the next couple of drafts are going to see it become fashionable to take high pick flyers on raw as gently caress international players. tanglewood1420 fucked around with this message at 14:35 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 14:33
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The Ringer has Jonah Bolden up at #27 right now it's happening
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May 27, 2017 16:44
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tanglewood1420 posted:These are my favourite gambles in the draft outside the top ten or so. 6'11" with a 7'6" wingspan and freakish agility that but picked up a basketball for the first time at age 15? Sign me up! 5% chance you get Hakeem, Giannis, Mutombo, Embiid, 95% chance you are laughed at for the next decade for picking him. The difference is all brain, those guys are all sharp as hell, Hashemite Thabeet looks surprised every time he looks down and his feet are still there I'm leaving that autocorrect
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May 27, 2017 17:12
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I think I've convinced myself that I want the Sixers to take Fox. His shot actually doesn't *look* bad and he can shoot FT's. He actually shot pretty well from 3 in high school. Not that HS should outweigh college, but it at least shows that he may have better ability than that abysmal 3P% shows. Some of the film I've seen of him shooting 3's, or really just shooting in general, shows hesitation. Makes me wonder how much of it is mental, which would make sense because his form looks fine and he can shoot from the line.
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May 27, 2017 17:50
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paternity suitor posted:I think I've convinced myself that I want the Sixers to take Fox. His shot actually doesn't *look* bad and he can shoot FT's. He actually shot pretty well from 3 in high school. Not that HS should outweigh college, but it at least shows that he may have better ability than that abysmal 3P% shows. Some of the film I've seen of him shooting 3's, or really just shooting in general, shows hesitation. Makes me wonder how much of it is mental, which would make sense because his form looks fine and he can shoot from the line. Why. just take Smith???
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May 27, 2017 17:51
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euphronius posted:Why. just take Smith??? Because he has the knee history, is a terrible defender with no length, and has a very questionable attitude. At this point like, I'm comfortable with Jackson or Fox. I'm not as worried about their outside shot as other people.
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May 27, 2017 17:57
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Redgrendel2001 posted:Because he has the knee history, is a terrible defender with no length, and has a very questionable attitude. Defense is just as much effort as it is natural ability. Smith won't be the last guy to check out on a bad team. Besides, if Smith can be a mediocre defender, that's good enough for a PG. My current fever dream is 3. Denis Smith Trade Okafor, 39, and 46 for ~24 or so. 24. Semi Ojeleye 36. Josh Hart 50. Some international draft and stash Nissin Cup Nudist fucked around with this message at 18:22 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 18:08
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Knee stuff I'll grant you. By defense ? They don't play defense in college. Who knows ?? Did Markell's faults play defense ?
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May 27, 2017 18:37
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The knock on Smith isn't that he is a bad defender, but that he didn't play great defense in college. He has the potential to be an elite defender because of his athleticism. He also didn't always look like a natural PG. Put him on a better team though and he might have been a lock for the top 3.
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May 27, 2017 18:48
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Redgrendel2001 posted:Because he has the knee history, is a terrible defender with no length, and has a very questionable attitude. He's already 6'3, and being a pg means that his job on defense is to not die on screens, if you want long arms you can trade for Wade Baldwin or Dante Exum or Reggie Jackson. An ACL is an injury that players in every sport fully recover from, in 2017. The long arms just help bother a shot if you're caught on a screen or you're switching. There isn't really a correlation of wingspan and pg success, mainly it's a skill + athleticism position. The effort is a fair point, but his team did really suck and he did have to exert a ton of energy on offense. 3 isn't a value slot for him, but I honestly think you could flip a coin to decide who'll be the better pro, Fox or Smith. Fox has to be able to shoot, we've seen it for the last 10 years, if a pg isn't the best passer in the world (Richard Rubio) he has to be able to shoot threes, preferably off the dribble, and finish at the rim to lead an elite offense. If I was the 76ers GM I would be afraid of Fox and Jackson, if I couldn't safely trade down for smith, I would just default to Jackson and be werrrry conservative, because I wouldn't want to draft Fox and risk building the 2015 Orlando magic with a bit more playmaking. If the Lakers take Jackson I think the 76ers should try to trade to 5 or so Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 18:57 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 18:51
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euphronius posted:Knee stuff I'll grant you. By defense ? They don't play defense in college. Who knows ?? Did Markell's faults play defense ? Fultz has the luxury of being 6'5" with a 6'10" wingspan; Smith is 6'2" with a 6'3" wingspan.
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May 27, 2017 18:52
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