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Yaws posted:Don't bother. RLM is my favorite YouTube Channel. So I will. It's already as good as their Prometheus one.
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May 27, 2017 03:55
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Neo Rasa posted:Walter won but took David's body so that the one who made him wake up to the shittiness of humanity could live forever. Y'all acting like a program can't replicate itself into both bodies.
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May 27, 2017 04:01
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Baronjutter posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmwyWerz5KI They made some good points. I'm glad ridley had to turn his series into something worse than AVP because I love AVP and AVP:R!
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May 27, 2017 04:16
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Tenzarin posted:They made some good points. No they didn't. Yaws fucked around with this message at 04:21 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 04:16
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Paolomania posted:Y'all acting like a program can't replicate itself into both bodies. I want to live in the timeline where the sequel to this has a lot of the same content as Prometheus and Covenant but is also Dead Ringers.
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May 27, 2017 04:18
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Yaws posted:No they didn't. I would love to hear why you have that opinion.
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May 27, 2017 04:29
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Just came back from the movie. I wonder how much Cormac McCarthy influenced Ridley when they were making The Counselor, because David in this movie is basically The Judge from Blood Meridian. Intricate sketches and dissections of wildlife, constant talk of creation and wanting to control it, immense strength, treating humans as animals not fit for the universe, etc.
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May 27, 2017 04:33
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Paolomania posted:Y'all acting like a program can't replicate itself into both bodies. It can if the script calls for it, but in reality it might not be so simple with a neural network. Low Desert Punk posted:Just came back from the movie. I wonder how much Cormac McCarthy influenced Ridley when they were making The Counselor, because David in this movie is basically The Judge from Blood Meridian. Intricate sketches and dissections of wildlife, constant talk of creation and wanting to control it, immense strength, treating humans as animals not fit for the universe, etc. There might be something there with David and Walter's relationship and that between the kid and the Judge.
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May 27, 2017 04:37
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Low Desert Punk posted:Just came back from the movie. I wonder how much Cormac McCarthy influenced Ridley when they were making The Counselor, because David in this movie is basically The Judge from Blood Meridian. Intricate sketches and dissections of wildlife, constant talk of creation and wanting to control it, immense strength, treating humans as animals not fit for the universe, etc. Just take one of these I HATED IT or IT WAS THE BEST hats and try to keep behind this overturned desk. I don't know what they told you back at base but we don't have the loving time for a scholarly debate.
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May 27, 2017 05:09
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dont even fink about it posted:Just take one of these I HATED IT or IT WAS THE BEST hats and try to keep behind this overturned desk. I don't know what they told you back at base but we don't have the loving time for a scholarly debate. oh gently caress I didn't know. Sorry mr. welles
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May 27, 2017 05:16
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Hodgepodge posted:It can if the script calls for it, but in reality it might not be so simple with a neural network. Scott was actually very interested in directing Blood Meridian itself for some time and is a big Cormac McCarthy fan so this doesn't surprise me. It didn't happen because he couldn't get anyone on board with portraying on screen violence that according to him would have been "Double X Horrific" rather than R or NC-17. What could have been........ Ridley Scott/IndieWire posted:“[Studios]didn’t want to make it. The book is so uncompromising, which is what’s great about it.”
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May 27, 2017 05:18
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Xenomrph posted:We see Walter's neck wound rapidly healing after David neutralizes him, but "Walter" needed to have his face stapled shut when he got back on the ship. From the perspective of someone in-universe, though, I don't think seeing Walter have to staple himself would raise too many alarm bells. Sure, I know he can heal damage, but stapling his skin together might make that healing easier / more effective. Same reason why we suture up wounds to our skin, after all. Plus, I got the impression that Daniels is super low-key trying not to entertain the motion that "Walter" could be David. after all that's gone on. That scene felt mildly odd to me, because I almost got the impression in that scene that Daniels was beginning to almost warm up to "Walter" romantically, but I couldn't tell if I was noticing something or just reading way too much into it.
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May 27, 2017 05:31
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Neo Rasa posted:Scott was actually very interested in directing Blood Meridian itself for some time and is a big Cormac McCarthy fan so this doesn't surprise me. It didn't happen because he couldn't get anyone on board with portraying on screen violence that according to him would have been "Double X Horrific" rather than R or NC-17. What could have been........ That Forever War script sounds pretty rad as well. Blood Meridian is pretty brutal, so I can see why it might be hard to get the project off the ground.
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May 27, 2017 05:56
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MisterBibs posted:From the perspective of someone in-universe, though, I don't think seeing Walter have to staple himself would raise too many alarm bells. Sure, I know he can heal damage, but stapling his skin together might make that healing easier / more effective. Same reason why we suture up wounds to our skin, after all. Plus, I got the impression that Daniels is super low-key trying not to entertain the motion that "Walter" could be David. after all that's gone on. Well yeah, my point was that it's visual shorthand for the audience to clue them in on "the twist" if they're paying attention.
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May 27, 2017 05:57
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Xenomrph posted:Well yeah, my point was that it's visual shorthand for the audience to clue them in on "the twist" if they're paying attention. Scott should have played it like Blade Runner and showed David graphically shivving and killing Walter, but explicitly show David's face wound regenerating, but still use David's name for the password, and speak's with Walter's voice, and have him staple a different wound shut instead of it regenerating, but also have him remember his and Daniels' conversation about the cabin clearly, which it flashes back to for a brief second but during the flashback his lines are spoken with David's voice, and right before Daniel's pod closes he reveals to her that she's an android also.
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May 27, 2017 08:15
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Toady posted:You're misreading the first encounter with the aliens as anti-weaponry. It's a Vietnam flashback. The film says victory was snatched from the troops because their full capability was held back by wimpy, non-commital leadership that underestimated the threat. One of the first things that happens is the detonation of the bag of ammo Gorman ordered them not to use, taking out several people (Ripley throwing her ammo belt into the flaming hive is a mockery of Gorman's order). What about Ripley being the one to bring attention to the danger of firing their weapons inside the hive? She asks about what kind of ammunition their rifles fire, gets the answer that its armor piercing rounds, then comments that they're right by the cooling tanks for the reactor, which Burke elaborates one which leads Gorman to give his order. When Ripley throws her ammo belt into the flaming hive the matter is moot long ago because the reactor is already in the process of blowing up likely due to some of the marines firing their weapons inside the hive in the first encounter (Vasquez and Drake IIRC, I also seem to recall that they show pretty clearly that she palms a spare mag when Apone collects the ammunition).
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May 27, 2017 09:04
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Neo Rasa posted:Scott should have played it like Blade Runner and showed David graphically shivving and killing Walter, but explicitly show David's face wound regenerating, but still use David's name for the password, and speak's with Walter's voice, and have him staple a different wound shut instead of it regenerating, but also have him remember his and Daniels' conversation about the cabin clearly, which it flashes back to for a brief second but during the flashback his lines are spoken with David's voice, and right before Daniel's pod closes he reveals to her that she's an android also. Obviously that will be in the Director's Cut
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May 27, 2017 09:13
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Yaws posted:Don't bother. it's good. i hate to break it to ya but they aren't serious with those "complaints". Hodgepodge posted:That Forever War script sounds pretty rad as well. kind of a shame forever war never got a movie made, it's so loving good. blood meridian seems impossible to make not just due to the violence but the story is fairly straightforward without the almost biblical language of the book. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 13:04 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 12:59
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ImpAtom posted:It's extra hilarious how you are so desperate to be angry at fans you ignored the point I didn't say anything about Alien:Covenant at all. You're the one who attempted to misdirect the issue by going "Well, people didn't have a problem with it in ALIENS which totally did the same thing!!" What you have quoted is not a criticism of Aliens. It is a criticism of non-reading, of the arbitrary declaration that the climax of Covenant is unnecessary, when I am specifically rejecting this vague construction, and am instead demanding more specific reading. Like, Covenant is criticized, and I write that this is a silly lens to criticize a movie from because it undermines the reading of films fans like. Then you insist that you aren't talking about Covenant at all (which I have also already written, thus confirming it), and continue to try to defend Aliens. I have not yet begun to criticize Aliens. I am criticizing flimsy reading rooted in nostalgia. I am criticizing the demonstration of fans to not read films simply because they are "ready for them to be over" and what-not. I have been writing that there is a difference between describing one's emotions and demonstrating that one is actually interested in discussing the formal elements at play in a film. For instance, if we must return to Aliens, we can tackle this flimsy reading you do where the powerloader scene is essential because it signifies that ImpAtom posted:Ripley embracing her new life (recall that the powerloader is something she knows how to use because of her new job and is one of the few things on the ship that is not a military weapon) and personally using the empowerment of her new life in order to personally overcome the physical representation of her trauma in in order to protect her new daughter. The scene in the hive does not satisfy that requirement at all. It is not gratuitous, it is the end of Ripley's character arc, where she fully embraces her new life and uses it to empower herself... But you have already misinterpreted not only formal elements of the film, but basic plot details. Ripley does not learn how to use the powerloader as part of her 'new life.' She already knows how to use the powerloader. If anything, it represents her old life, and in a previous scene she uses it as an opportunity for good will, to demonstrate to the marines that she's not just some "fifth wheel" or victim that they're superficially ferrying to-and-from the scene of her trauma. In a very straightforward way, the powerloader is used in the film to signify a piecemeal solidarity between Ripley and the marines. Moving forward from this, you make this arbitrary distinction between Ripley using guns to annihilate an indigenous population, and Ripley using the powerloader. But the powerloader is not this apolitical machine. It is owned by the Weyland-Yutani corporation, who are funding this entirely military enterprise to begin with. To the extent that the 'Chekov's gun moment' occurs, that punchy scene in which Ripley runs away and then emerges from the dark in this embiggened suit of armor, this does not contradict the militaristic context of the story at all. Ripley is using an artifact from her old life, owned and manufactured within the military industrial complex of her contemporary society, to annihilate an indigenous radical. This is not a fundamental contradiction of the non-issue that 'guns solve everything,' or whatever. The powerloader is not 'apolitical' whereas the guns are 'bad things' which signify the wrong way to go about indiscriminate killing of the voracious Other. It is an escalation of militaristic themes that pervade the entire narrative. The fake-out occurs for dramatically and thematically motivated reasons, but not out of any apparent 'necessity.' It is included in the film in order to further amp up the audience and suture them into Ripley's apolitical power fantasy and fairy tale. This is the problem with non-reading: I have not said that Aliens is a bad film, or that its ending is 'unnecessary.' I have said that defining the qualities of films by 'necessity' is arbitrary and vague, and detracts from critical reading. Everything about Aliens is flamboyant, gratuitous, and unnecessary, but that doesn't mean it's a bad film. It is, indeed, a very well made, reactionary power fantasy and fairy tale. It begins with a 'sleeping beauty' who then ascends into a suit of armor to destroy a diabolical dragon, which is simultaneously an evil witch/queen. Ripley's empowerment, while guiding structure of the film, is built around precisely this constant escalation, the compounding repetition of imagery. The climax of the film, with Ripley is the suit of armor, standing toe-to-toe with the dragon, is an escalation of the image of her diving deep into the dragon's lair. All I have written is that detractors of the climax of Alien: Covenant are not reading the film in the same way that they have not read Aliens. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The movie even properly "ends" with the reconciliation of "Walter" and Daniels. Right. The perverse thing is that now Walter is defined by love, rather than duty, and this is horrific. Gatts posted:Do we assume David took Walters upgraded body due to the lack of hand? Not that it matters I guess but it'd be fitting. Kind of. Through deliberate montage, right before Walter is about to bash David's head in, the implication is that this violent, psychosexual relationship has fused them into a single figure. David did not take Walter's body, or alter his own. Walter killed David, but then realizes that he was right. Love is more important than duty. He feels authentic remorse in the same way that David is remorseful that, from his point-of-view, Shaw's death was a fatalistic predetermination so that the 'perfect organism' can be born. There is an overt queer-ness to this imagery. David successfully seduces Walter, and through this 'unholy union,' the product is a child (much like the aliens) which fundamentally contradicts binary assumptions of gender and trappings of heterosexual reproduction. Walter/David, literally upchucks embryos, it's awesome. As long as we're talking about non-reading, Covenant deals directly in one of those aspects of Alien that everyone acknowledges, but that no one reads: Which is that the phobia that the xenomorphs stand-in for is not at all cosmic or incomprehensible, but straightforwardly the fear of queer-ness, of gender non-conformity, of intersexuality, of technology leading to the end of heteropatriarchal supremacy through 'natural' sexual reproduction. For all that folks go on and on about how Ripley herself is a 'gender-bending' figure, a postfeminist icon, the reality is that this ascending warrior-princess actually stands in for a comforting, reactionary fantasy in the face of deteriorating sexual norms. Covenant finally and violently rejects this. There is no going back. God is now a bisexual wizard who can reproduce without heterosexual reproduction. K. Waste fucked around with this message at 16:42 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 14:53
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K. Waste posted:Moving forward from this, you make this arbitrary distinction between Ripley using guns to annihilate an indigenous population, and Ripley using the powerloader. But the powerloader is not this apolitical machine. It is owned by the Weyland-Yutani corporation, who are funding this entirely military enterprise to begin with. To the extent that the 'Chekov's gun moment' occurs, that punchy scene in which Ripley runs away and then emerges from the dark in this embiggened suit of armor, this does not contradict the militaristic context of the story at all. Ripley is using an artifact from her old life, owned and manufactured within the military industrial complex of her contemporary society, to annihilate an indigenous radical. This is not a fundamental contradiction of the non-issue that 'guns solve everything,' or whatever. The powerloader is not 'apolitical' whereas the guns are 'bad things' which signify the wrong way to go about indiscriminate killing of the voracious Other. It is an escalation of militaristic themes that pervade the entire narrative. The fake-out occurs for dramatically and thematically motivated reasons, but not out of any apparent 'necessity.' It is included in the film in order to further amp up the audience and suture them into Ripley's apolitical power fantasy and fairy tale. WY and the USCMC are two different companies, though. You might as well claim that forklift trucks are military vehicles as well.
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May 27, 2017 15:55
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SUNKOS posted:WY and the USCMC are two different companies, though. You might as well claim that forklift trucks are military vehicles as well. This is confirmation of the ideological fantasy at work in Aliens. The overarching threat of the military-industrial complex is obfuscated through Ripley's empowerment in fighting her personal demons. What goes unresolved is that there is no 'apolitical' distinction between the private enterprise and imperial-military establishment, further illuminated by the fact that Ripley is not operating a banal forklift. She is wearing a suit of armor. She is not moving a crate. She is fighting a dragon.
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May 27, 2017 16:57
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Low Desert Punk posted:Just came back from the movie. I wonder how much Cormac McCarthy influenced Ridley when they were making The Counselor, because David in this movie is basically The Judge from Blood Meridian. Intricate sketches and dissections of wildlife, constant talk of creation and wanting to control it, immense strength, treating humans as animals not fit for the universe, etc. I was thinking about this a lot watching Exodus. It's really nasty and mean but not in that self aggrandizing way The Passion is.
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May 27, 2017 17:01
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SUNKOS posted:WY and the USCMC are two different companies, though. You might as well claim that forklift trucks are military vehicles as well. Burke had indirect overall command of the whole operation until everything went to poo poo and he was caught trying to smuggle alien embryos.
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May 27, 2017 17:25
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Snak posted:Termiantor Genisys might be the 3rd best film in the series... Looper gets my vote.
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May 27, 2017 17:57
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I was thinking about this a lot watching Exodus. It's really nasty and mean but not in that self aggrandizing way The Passion is. Petulant Child God is extremely McCarthy, more so if it had that nihilistic McCarthy dialogue. Exodus is a Low-key solid entry in Scott's latter day filmography.
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May 27, 2017 18:23
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Nice meltdown!
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May 27, 2017 18:26
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K. Waste posted:
I'll support one thing at least, David associates with the feminine and Walter associates with the masculine in their traits/personality. So in a way I'll support what you say that they violently fuse together and start throwing up embryos. And yeah there's a lot about sex and reproduction underlying here.
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May 27, 2017 19:11
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Burke had indirect overall command of the whole operation until everything went to poo poo and he was caught trying to smuggle alien embryos. Ehh not really, he had unofficial control while Gorman was in charge, because Gorman was a pushover with no practical experience. The moment Gorman was out of the picture and Hicks took over, Burke was forced to take a backseat.
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May 27, 2017 19:17
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Randarkman posted:What about Ripley being the one to bring attention to the danger of firing their weapons inside the hive? She asks about what kind of ammunition their rifles fire, gets the answer that its armor piercing rounds, then comments that they're right by the cooling tanks for the reactor, which Burke elaborates one which leads Gorman to give his order. When Ripley throws her ammo belt into the flaming hive the matter is moot long ago because the reactor is already in the process of blowing up likely due to some of the marines firing their weapons inside the hive in the first encounter (Vasquez and Drake IIRC, I also seem to recall that they show pretty clearly that she palms a spare mag when Apone collects the ammunition). It's not coincidental that Ripley throws an ammo belt into the fire to blow up the queen's children like how the ammo bag caught fire and blew up several marines. Clipperton posted:Eh, the Vietnam allegory is a little more complicated than that. The 'leadership' does allow them to go in with heavy weapons (flamethrowers, for God's sake) and the first thing they do with them is wipe out 100% of the civilian population, letting the aliens get the drop on them. The aliens turn the marines' superior firepower against them (Dietrich spraying napalm everywhere and igniting the ammo, just like the Viet Cong were blowing up ammo dumps during the Tet Offensive). The marines ignore their ROE (load up the smartguns) and manage to rack up a few brute-force kills, but cause a lot of damage to themselves in the process (Drake getting his face eaten off, Hicks getting Hudson sprayed with acid). Overall, I'd say it's unclear that having pulse rifles wouldn't have made the situation worse. "Wiped out 100% of the civilian population" is misleading. They roast a chestburster, which is important because it means the colonists are being converted. The implication of Gorman's sweaty order not to fire is that if a better leader was in charge--someone like Ripley who understands the threat or Hicks who doesn't fall apart under pressure--the marines wouldn't have been put in an impossible situation. This is part of the film's commentary on what has caused the institutions in the film to fail. Burke and Gorman are like the aliens that have corrupted the colony. Eliminating the corruption/pollution will allow things to return to normal. Burke's culpability is presented in amusing info dumps that make him responsible for everything. The atmosphere processor overloads because of the dropship crash, and they needed a dropship to return to the Sulaco regardless of the decision to nuke. The overload occurs to prevent the protagonists from being able to nuke the place before the movie is over. Hicks gets hit with acid because the aliens are so corrupt and dangerous that they have toxic waste for blood. Without the pulse rifle, it would have gotten into the elevator and killed them. The acid injury occurs to explain why Hicks doesn't help Ripley rescue Newt. It's all a deliberate escalation of tension culminating in Ripley's solo infiltration of the hive. Everything is resolved once they reach the Sulaco, but the return of the queen is an escalation which establishes that: 1.) Aliens can't even be trusted to stay dead. 2.) Aliens are so evil that they'll pursue in the face of superior firepower. 3.) Ripley's maternity is challenged by a Corrupt Mother who steals children and reproduces without men. The powerloader was used to carry weaponry earlier in the film. Now it carries the ultimate weapon, Ripley herself. Once she slays the beast, the magical weapon is pulled into space like the glaive in Krull. Covenant's sequence with the terraforming equipment is a play off that fight, but then the rug is pulled out. There will be no nuclear family of Daniels, Tennessee, and the children. The whole sequence was the machination of an incestuous, bisexual God of gently caress.
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May 27, 2017 19:57
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Instead of people constantly dying on the hill of "I'm gonna direct Neuromancer" I wish someone super rich in the movie industry would decide to make it their own personal goal to film William Gibson's script for Alien 3. And I say that as someone whose favorite film in the franchise is already Alien 3.
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May 27, 2017 20:27
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I'd really like to see David Fincher take over for the next film.
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May 27, 2017 20:36
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/05/27/box-office-alien-covenant-plunges-horrific-80-for-3m-friday/ Well poo poo.
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May 27, 2017 20:42
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Oops should of went with blompcamp!
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May 27, 2017 21:39
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Lol @ the positive reviews that make up a new movie to engage with because they can't engage with the text.
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May 27, 2017 21:59
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Toady posted:"Wiped out 100% of the civilian population" is misleading. They roast a chestburster, which is important because it means the colonists are being converted. Still, the very first thing they do when they enter the hive is to torch someone they were supposedly there to protect. With guns. quote:The implication of Gorman's sweaty order not to fire is that if a better leader was in charge--someone like Ripley who understands the threat or Hicks who doesn't fall apart under pressure--the marines wouldn't have been put in an impossible situation. This is part of the film's commentary on what has caused the institutions in the film to fail. Burke and Gorman are like the aliens that have corrupted the colony. Eliminating the corruption/pollution will allow things to return to normal. Burke's culpability is presented in amusing info dumps that make him responsible for everything. Like Randarkman said, it's Ripley (who 'understands the threat') who takes their guns away in the first place, and the movie goes out of its way to show her concerns are real (the heat exchanger does end up getting damaged, although not in the processor ambush (maybe), and the colony does blow up). I mean, after that they do put Hicks in charge, but that doesn't solve their problems, to put it mildly. quote:The atmosphere processor overloads because of the dropship crash, and they needed a dropship to return to the Sulaco regardless of the decision to nuke. The overload occurs to prevent the protagonists from being able to nuke the place before the movie is over. Hicks gets hit with acid because the aliens are so corrupt and dangerous that they have toxic waste for blood. Without the pulse rifle, it would have gotten into the elevator and killed them. The acid injury occurs to explain why Hicks doesn't help Ripley rescue Newt. It's all a deliberate escalation of tension culminating in Ripley's solo infiltration of the hive. Sure, there's a lot of stuff that's in the movie for purely dramatic reasons, anyone who looks for a perfect map to Vietnam is insane. But that works both ways--we can just as easily say that Ripley can't get to her pulse rifle when the facehuggers are after her not because GUNS R AWESOME, but because the movie needs the facehuggers to be a real threat. I still think it's significant that the decision to escalate the conflict leads directly to an inferno that undermines the stability of the whole region, and draws the marines deeper into the quagmire to boot. And every single time the marines use their firepower, it either blows back on them (literally, in Frost and Crowe's case) or blinds them to the real threat (Hudson cockily kicking rear end only for an alien to sneak up on him from below). You can say it's because the aliens are fighting dirty or whatever, but still: using guns may allow the marines to accomplish short-term objectives but it puts them in a worse position overall. quote:The powerloader was used to carry weaponry earlier in the film. Now it carries the ultimate weapon, Ripley herself. Once she slays the beast, the magical weapon is pulled into space like the glaive in Krull. Hang on, is the weapon Ripley, or is the weapon the powerloader? Ripley doesn't get pulled into space. Regardless, I really think the powerloader comes across as a tool rather than a weapon--it's not painted khaki like military hardware, it's safety yellow like construction equipment, and Ripley knows how to use it because she's been working a blue-collar civilian job (as a longshoreman, no less). Again, if Ripley's there to: Toady posted:1.) Reclaim her maternity. then her attempt to do that with guns--rescuing Newt from the hive and blowing up the queen's eggs--fails on both counts, because now she's quite literally brought the war back with her (a PTSD analogy if ever there was one) and Newt's still in danger. Only when she gives up on the guns and embraces her identity as a worker does she succeed 
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May 27, 2017 22:17
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Arglebargle III posted:Lol @ the positive reviews that make up a new movie to engage with because they can't engage with the text. This is a common reaction around here to discussion which actually does engage with the text instead of relying on stock phrases, and it's hilarious projection every time.
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May 27, 2017 22:30
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One of the things that I really liked about Covenant was how David was this Dracula-like figure. How he comes out of the night, drives away the wolves, and leads the weary travelers to his big spooky castle a great hall and giant table and poo poo. The whole thing feels like a fantasy story. Like one of those one-off stops that Odysseus, or Jason questing for the fleece, or Sinbad, make. Where they stop at an island for fresh water, and get attacked by monsters, but a wizard offers them shelter in his tower, where he lives alone. But everything is not as it seems... I really dig that.
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May 27, 2017 22:38
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Snak posted:One of the things that I really liked about Covenant was how David was this Dracula-like figure. How he comes out of the night, drives away the wolves, and leads the weary travelers to his big spooky castle a great hall and giant table and poo poo. Yeah, I loved the second act the most because of this. David as a creepy Dracula/Dr. Frankenstein figure is perfect, like you said, bringing them off the moors and into his old castle. It has this gothic vibe, which is unique to the series except for maybe Alien 3. Is Industrial Gothic a thing?
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May 27, 2017 22:42
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LesterGroans posted:Is Industrial Gothic a thing? Friend, have you heard of steampunk?
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May 27, 2017 22:49
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Clipperton posted:Still, the very first thing they do when they enter the hive is to torch someone they were supposedly there to protect. With guns. They were just asking for it!
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May 27, 2017 22:53
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