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Cythereal posted:In the Realms. We were chatting and I was bouncing ideas off her for Valerie's interactions with Ajantis. I'd concluded that they'd be pretty hostile to each other because while they have a lot of very similar ideas about how the world should be (they're both Lawful Good), they differ on a few small but very important details. There's an element of them both wishing they could be friends, and I observed that if Valerie was straight there'd be ample grounds for a tragic love story that leaves them both hurt and broken. That sounds like somebody who is very, very sad and has never had or seen a healthy, functional relationship. That or an abusive person who wrecks every relationship or friendship they get into then decides that that's just how things actually work.
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May 29, 2017 02:13
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Kavak posted:Ah. Still can't grok that kind of thinking, especially where she got the idea that a setting as stupidly diverse as the Realms would get hung up on gay people, but it's better than the Alternatives- which is also a mod she did that I really like for the "Kill them all and let the Gods sort them out" option with the thieves guilds... We'd already run into problems talking crossmod with her Gavin NPC mod. Again, very different views of the Realms - Valerie's none too fond of the deity Lathander, respecting him and his clergy as the powerful force of good they are, but personally finding Lathander's doctrine shallow and unfulfilling. If you've played with Gavin, you probably know he's a Morninglord, a dedicated and exclusive priest of Lathander, and in the outlines of crossmod banter Valerie tended to be less than respectful of Gavin's faith - she has a harsher, more cynical world view. Berelinde point-blank refused to sign off on any Valerie-Gavin crossmod that didn't end in Valerie deciding Lathander is awesome, on the basis that Lathander is awesome and the goodest of good deities. Berelinde loved to talk about how Gavin was her tabletop character for more than twenty years, and I think it showed. I was all for portraying Valerie as a bit of a judgmental dick, her response to Gavin's faith would hardly be the only time she's an rear end to someone, but what can you do. Honestly, my personal rule number one as a modder was: your mod is flawed, accept and understand that. There will always be people who will dislike and disagree with it, and that's not a slight against the people in question. I love that when people talk about Baldur's Gate NPC mods here on SA (in this thread or elsewhere), Valerie gets mentioned with some regularity as a good mod, but I know that's far from universal and I did not set out to write a universally beloved mod nor did I expect it to be. My first mod NPC, I'm kind of shocked I ever heard anything positive about.  I think the echo chamber of the Nexus does the modding community a disservice. Outside criticism is a large part of how you improve as a writer.
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May 29, 2017 02:24
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Cythereal posted:It's more the "tragic, doomed love that hurts and breaks both people" that was her particular hobbyhorse, but her incredibly homophobic read on the Realms was what made me stop talking to her.
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May 29, 2017 02:34
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Cythereal posted:I think the echo chamber of the Nexus does the modding community a disservice. Outside criticism is a large part of how you improve as a writer. Totally agreed. I'm a modder too, but for a very different kind of game (And mostly the old version for Darkest Hour). The development team workshops ideas among itself so there's less of the hugbox of Nexus sycophant comments, but I still try to look around outside that space just to be sure we're not going in a totally wrong direction on things. Coolguye posted:i liked the interview where chris avellone admits this is the only romance he's remotely comfortable writing Did he say why? I know he hates video game romances in general (And after what they've done to Bioware I think he has the right idea)
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May 29, 2017 02:41
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I wish to read this interview.
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May 29, 2017 02:46
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Kavak posted:Did he say why? I know he hates video game romances in general (And after what they've done to Bioware I think he has the right idea) I can't remember if this was him, rope kid, or another Obsidian writer, but I remember reading something along the lines of how writing a generated player character/NPC romance was almost always terrible because the PC has no predefined personality, so the NPC has to be attracted to the PC for basically zero reason. It ends up not really so much of a romantic relationship as it is weird wish fulfillment.
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May 29, 2017 02:52
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Coolguye posted:i liked the interview where chris avellone admits this is the only romance he's remotely comfortable writing By all means, different strokes for different folks. That just isn't something I have much interest in writing or playing. There's only a very few mods I outright condemn out of disgust - the Imoen Romance first and foremost among them, but also including Dance With Rogues. Then again, Skyrim and other modding games have modding scenes that go utterly off the deep end compared to what I'm used to, so I'm more prepared to condemn those en masse. In this case, it was something I really didn't want to touch with Valerie - her BG2/ToB material that's about 80% complete includes all writing finished, including her romance. One of my principle ideas when sitting down to write Valerie in the beginning was that gay characters in media tend so often to be tragic, angsty, die horribly, or otherwise suffer, so I wanted to avoid all of that.
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May 29, 2017 02:53
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Someone post the terrifying fanfic that lost the author of the imoen romance custody of his kids.
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May 29, 2017 03:07
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Cat Army 
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I think that was just one of the members of the community. The original author made it because his wife wouldn't act out the sex scenes he put in it. EDIT: Here's the summary: http://www.shsforums.net/topic/54515-why-nobody-should-get-imoen-romance/ Kavak fucked around with this message at 03:16 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 03:09
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Back in the days of 1st Edition AD&D, Waterdeep was canonically friendly to people walking around stark naked (assuming they didn't mind the occasionally cold weather) and Ed Greenwood's personal canon apparently involves the queen of Silverymoon hosting enormous orgies. If there's any assumptions of homophobia, they've been imported by the same kind of person who thinks the highly-magical Realms operates on the same social rules as their misunderstanding of the Middle Ages. Edit: Hey! Just like this guy in the thread linked above my post! quote:The Saerileth romance isn't kiddie porn. The Forgotten Realms echo an era of Western human civilisation when a girl who wasn't married by the age of 15 was a spinster, and marriages were routinely arranged between young teenage first cousins. Bull-shite. Bieeanshee fucked around with this message at 05:11 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 05:08
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Bieeardo posted:Back in the days of 1st Edition AD&D, Waterdeep was canonically friendly to people walking around stark naked (assuming they didn't mind the occasionally cold weather) and Ed Greenwood's personal canon apparently involves the queen of Silverymoon hosting enormous orgies. Greenwood also stood up for Beamdog's (Admittedly shallow and tokeny) trans character in Dragonspear and said none of that stuff was a big deal in the realms. He's a cool guy, even if he's from the "Old hippy horndog" mold. quote:Bull-shite. Everyone points to Romeo and Juliet to justify that stuff, but Shakespeare was mocking the Italians for marrying their daughters off so young. In short, the Bard thinks you're a pedophile dude.
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May 29, 2017 05:33
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How did these people react when the source book said that knights raiding an orc village is an act of terrorism?
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May 29, 2017 05:37
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Kavak posted:Everyone points to Romeo and Juliet to justify that stuff, but Shakespeare was mocking the Italians for marrying their daughters off so young. In short, the Bard thinks you're a pedophile dude. Bongo Bill posted:I wish to read this interview. relevant bit: Gameranx posted:You've stated in the past that you don't like romances in games—at least to the extent that they've been done in games thus far. Were you to implement a romance subplot in Project Eternity, what would it involve? Chrissy A posted:If I were to implement a romance subplot in Eternity – I wouldn’t. I’d examine interpersonal relationships from another angle and I wouldn’t confine it to love and romance. Maybe I’d explore it after a “loving” relationship crashed and burned, and one or both was killed in the aftermath enough for them to see if it had really been worth it spending the last few years of their physical existence chained to each other in a dance of human misery and/or a plateau of soul-killing compromise. Or maybe I’d explore a veteran’s love affair with his craft of murder and allowing souls to be freed to travel beyond their bleeding shell, or a Cipher’s obsession with plucking the emotions of deep-rooted souls to try and see what makes people attracted to each other beyond their baser instincts and discovers love… specifically, his love of manipulating others. You could build an entire dungeon and quest where he devotes himself to replicating facsimiles of love, reducer a Higher Love to a baser thing and using NPCs he encounters as puppets for his experimentations, turning something supposedly beautiful into something filthy, mechanical, but surrounded by blank-eyed soul-twisted drones echoing all the hollow Disney-like platitudes and fairy tale existence where everyone lives happily ever after.
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May 29, 2017 07:27
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quote:Maybe I’d explore it after a “loving” relationship crashed and burned, and one or both was killed in the aftermath enough for them to see if it had really been worth it spending the last few years of their physical existence chained to each other in a dance of human misery and/or a plateau of soul-killing compromise. Out of curiosity, has Avellone ever been divorced?
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May 29, 2017 07:33
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Kavak posted:Out of curiosity, has Avellone ever been divorced? he's never been married, but from the scraps of gossip people get it has nothing to do with misanthropy or whatever. the guy just works a ton and most people aren't willing to put up with it. apparently he's got a self-deprecating sense of humor in private.
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May 29, 2017 07:36
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Coolguye posted:it's a lot like those edgy cats who talk about The Prince without realizing that Machiavelli was a republican and that entire book is a straight-faced satire of Lorenzo de Medici's world view that he wrote specifically so he could get back into their good graces. I'm a fan of some form of that interpretation too, but for the record the literature is really divided on how to reconcile the Prince and the Discourses.
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May 29, 2017 07:47
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The number one problem of video game modding is that, unlike playing tabletop games, you can't reach across the table and punch someone in the face for trying to turn the game into their own weird creepy fetish wank simulator.
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May 29, 2017 08:56
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Fortunately, unlike playing tabletop games, it isn't your game that they're doing it to unless you download and install their mod. You tryin' to tell us something?
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May 29, 2017 09:07
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Kavak posted:Everyone points to Romeo and Juliet to justify that stuff, but Shakespeare was mocking the Italians for marrying their daughters off so young. In short, the Bard thinks you're a pedophile dude. Yeah this might be a weird tangent but it's weird that people see Romeo and Juliet as like an aspirational thing when it's basically a story about two dumb teenagers who both end up dying because of dumb teenager drama. Cup Runneth Over posted:Fortunately, unlike playing tabletop games, it isn't your game that they're doing it to unless you download and install their mod. Well unless you decide to download one of those mod megapacks blind. Which is still essentially your fault but hey at least you might get some funny YouTube videos out of it.
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May 29, 2017 09:07
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Tumblr of scotch posted:The number one problem of video game modding is that, unlike playing tabletop games, you can't reach across the table and punch someone in the face for trying to turn the game into their own weird creepy fetish wank simulator. 
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May 29, 2017 09:12
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I'm still more bothered that an Orc and Elf are working together in this picture.
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May 29, 2017 09:14
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But my female Thri-Kreen monk...
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May 29, 2017 09:21
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Fortunately, unlike playing tabletop games, it isn't your game that they're doing it to unless you download and install their mod.
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May 29, 2017 09:23
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Lunethex posted:I'm still more bothered that an Orc and Elf are working together in this picture. Racist. Tumblr of scotch posted:There are however mods that sneak that poo poo in there without advertising it. Post 'em if you've got 'em.
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May 29, 2017 09:30
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Kavak posted:Racist. Elves aren't a race, they are a disease to be cured.
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May 29, 2017 09:45
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Kibayasu posted:Elves aren't a race, they are a disease to be cured. Not All Elves (Just the ones in Suldanessellar. They got what they deserved, all of them.)
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May 29, 2017 09:48
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Entropy238 posted:I was browsing for Neverwinter Nights 1 mods to play and came across this gem, "A Dance with Rogues": Someone actually tried to Let's Play this mod once. This was a loooong time back, I think it got to about two pages when the thread got gassed and the OP got permabanned (apparently) because of an event or encounter or something in the second part.
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May 29, 2017 09:52
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King Doom posted:Someone actually tried to Let's Play this mod once. This was a loooong time back, I think it got to about two pages when the thread got gassed and the OP got permabanned (apparently) because of an event or encounter or something in the second part. Someone played through a ton of it, at least the entire first act or whatever and most (Possibly all? Been a while) of the second too on the RPG codex for laughs, boy that was something. Ooooh yes, found it. "Thank you for bearing with this LP till the end. I sure as hell am hating it towards the end. This had been an uneven ride. At some point, Valine simply forgot about the player's motivation and completely went into some...unrelated adventures." Also the relevant first post of that thread: "I hope you die of cancer!" Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 12:35 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 12:26
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Bieeardo posted:Bull-shite. I will actually defend Saerileth in one respect: if you assume the PC is a bright, naive kid who's barely 18 if he's even that old, Saerileth does make some sense in a sickeningly sweet fairy tale kind of way. I've seen the argument before and I agree it makes sense in that specific context, but yeah if you don't assume the PC is himself a teenager barely older than Saerileth, then that poo poo gets creepy fast and nothing defends how perfect and special and holy she is, nor the alternate portraits for her that have her in lingerie.
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May 29, 2017 13:38
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Canonically Gorion's Ward is supposed to be like 20 so Saerilith is creepy in all context and should be deleted from the internet.
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May 29, 2017 13:51
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Yardbomb posted:Someone played through a ton of it, at least the entire first act or whatever and most (Possibly all? Been a while) of the second too on the RPG codex for laughs, boy that was something. Is everything posted by the author of that playthrough actual content from the mod? Including the dialogue? I have to ask because I'm just so blown away. Even The Sims game sex mods have more tact. I answered my own question on the very next page. As usual. You know what, I'm glad it's not the 90s and early 2000s anymore. gently caress web 1.0. Lunethex fucked around with this message at 14:44 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 14:40
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Lunethex posted:
Oh don't worry, the actual game has it's own share of  poo poo too without RK47's occasional dumb joke text.Also I think later into the thread someone twigged onto a number of names and stuff being really close to GoT/ASoIaF crap unsurprisingly. Per TVtropes "The Princess is a pastiche of the Stark sisters and Daenerys. She starts out as a Broken Bird princess (Sansa) who later joins a thieves/assassins guild (Arya); she can later learn to use her feminine wiles as a weapon (Dany). The pre-generated non-canon character that can be downloaded to play the module is named "Lyanna Stormborn", a name derived from the series. The names "Bran" and "Pia" also appeared in these books. Vico could be synonymous with the Clegane brothers, all of them being Black Knights with insatiable bloodlust. He is basically a Composite Character who stands between the brothers in terms of characteristics. One of the Mayor's sex slaves is named Sander Gregory, a name subtly derived from the Clegane brothers. A subtle reference of Eddard Stark's BFS Ice is the barbarian Bran's BFS named Frost. While not a direct homage per se, Vico's Kinslayer sword sounds close to Jaime Lannister's Kingslayer title. Simon Lyonson can be considered the Tyrion Lannister of the game, where both characters being the most likable from the enemy hierarchy. The modules' antagonist empire Dhorn is based on the Dorne region in the series, though this similarity appears to be only name-wise." Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 15:01 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 14:58
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I'd take that with a shake of salt, as much as I find the whole thing distasteful. TVTropes's entire reason for existence is carving off complexity and reducing things to their basic commonalities.
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May 29, 2017 15:23
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Apparently the creator herself also said she took inspiration from them so. Another choice bit from that LP thread: "Just wait for the possible gladiator gang-rape scene with them running at you with their erect cocks." Sure enough, "The Gladiators" are a page on that wiki that started the conversation. That Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 15:39 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 15:33
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I sit, curled up under a running showerhead, corrected.
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May 29, 2017 15:50
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So basically what I took from that Chris Avellone interview is that he wants to make a video game dungeon version of Castle Busirane from The Fairie Queene.
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May 29, 2017 16:39
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The best GRRM story is still The Sandkings, since it's the story of The Biggest Tool In The Universe getting owned hard.
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May 29, 2017 17:07
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Kavak posted:I think that was just one of the members of the community. The original author made it because his wife wouldn't act out the sex scenes he put in it. "'Tis something most unnatural here, and I want no part of it..." I remember someone was doing an LP of the Baldur's Gate games with mods in LP subforum (it might still be going actually), and one of the mods that was discussed was a NPC mod called Chloe, where the NPC basically comes in and Mary Sues their way into being the real protagonist of the game. I remember trying to see if was documented anywhere to see how bad it was, but I couldn't find anything.
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May 29, 2017 18:04
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Kibayasu posted:Elves aren't a race, they are a disease to be cured.
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May 29, 2017 19:10
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Speaking of NWN - what the hell happened to NWVault? Died to the vageries of internet time?
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