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Power Bottom posted:Weighing in on Wailing Arrow vs Mind Control: The range on MC is awful. If you're going to use it on a squishy either 1) they were already out of position and should be dead, 2) they're not out of position, you are and you just self stunned, or 3) they're not squishy. I guess the case for MC is a game where your opponents are built around a single hero like Greymane or Illidan and are functionally useless iwthout them.
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May 29, 2017 19:19
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Goons, help me how to Kerrigan... I've been trying to get better with her, but I'm not sure when to dive. Also, I feel extra squishy with her.
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May 29, 2017 19:53
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Nephzinho posted:The range on MC is awful. If you're going to use it on a squishy either 1) they were already out of position and should be dead, 2) they're not out of position, you are and you just self stunned, or 3) they're not squishy. I guess the case for MC is a game where your opponents are built around a single hero like Greymane or Illidan and are functionally useless iwthout them. Well, I suspect you're probably good enough that you get much better players with and against you than I do. But on the sort of teams I get, a squishy being out of position does not mean the enemy will collapse on them and get an instant pick like a pro team would. In my absolutely anecdotal, personal, mid-level experience, though? The big MIND CONTROL sign going up over a slightly mispositioned soft character is a huge neon light that screams "Kill this one!" to Sylvanas's team a lot of the time. It doesn't ALWAYS work, but it works frequently enough that it makes MC not a dead pick to me. Now, I still agree that in a vacuum, Wailing Arrow is better. For good players, Wailing Arrow is better. Being more useful for tactically weaker teams does not increase the absolute value of Mind Control. But I think that absolute value of an ability is less important than the actual value one gets out of it if they pick it. IE, if all Falstad is going to do with Gust is push a bunch of warriors and Thrall right up next to Jaina and Chromie? He's probably better off taking Hinterland even if Gust is the better choice in a vacuum.
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May 29, 2017 20:27
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Fellatio del Toro posted:There's one guaranteed way to get a random team to focus on a single target, and it's Gul'dan casting Life Drain on a minion. Just get the talent that resets the cooldown on minions that die with life drain on them
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May 29, 2017 20:37
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 I have a problem
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May 29, 2017 20:52
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Ciaphas posted:
I disagree, you are clearly winning most of your games
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May 29, 2017 20:59
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Ciaphas posted:
This would only be a problem if you were playing Samuro, Butcher or Nova  (I say this as a person who enjoys playing Nova).
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May 29, 2017 21:12
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Quote is not edit.
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May 29, 2017 21:13
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Fried Watermelon posted:Just get the talent that resets the cooldown on minions that die with life drain on them This competes with some much better talents, iirc. And it's not something you even need except when your teammates all kill the minion you were keeping fresh to drain.
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May 29, 2017 21:22
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Ciaphas posted:I have a problem Well, go on. Post your pro review of Probius' talents. You're clearly doing decently with it.
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May 29, 2017 21:25
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Bogart posted:Well, go on. Post your pro review of Probius' talents. You're clearly doing decently with it. Everything but 1, 7 and 16 is completely set in stone; I can't make up my mind on rift vs cannon talents at 1 and 7, and at 16 I regularly switch between the lingering slow, the slow more at center, and a couple times even the reduced spell power talent. Other than that? At 4 turbo on big maps where I'm not scared of dives, shield otherwise (though lately I'm tending more toward always going turbo), Pylon Overcharge always (tried null wall once and totally hated it), shield pylons always and pylon upgrade at 20 always 
Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 21:58 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 21:35
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Ignite Memories posted:This competes with some much better talents, iirc. And it's not something you even need except when your teammates all kill the minion you were keeping fresh to drain. Yeah, Improved Life Tap is usually better, especially if you will be spending a long time away from lanes or if you don't have reason to believe your teammates are going to repeatedly gently caress over your life drains. I still end up taking Health Funnel on rare occasions because of teammates who DO seem inclined to do so though. Hell, every now and then in QM I go Full Drain Life Gul'dan. It will never complete with Fel Flame or Corruption builds, but it can be silly fun on occasion. Ciaphas posted:shield pylons always I have found some limited success with the MP/spell power pylons when my team has characters who are very mana hungry. The two I've noticed so far are Tyrael and Morales. But that's a very limited and specific situation, and shield pylons are definitely more of a safe all-around choice. I have never been in a situation where my team has been dependent enough on autoattackers to take that pylon. Mind over Matter fucked around with this message at 21:54 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 21:37
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Anyone defending Mind Control needs to post their rank.
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May 29, 2017 21:55
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tcjimbo posted:Anyone defending Mind Control needs to post their rank.
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May 29, 2017 22:00
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I picked Mind Control once on accident in a hurry to team fight at 10 immediately and have regretted that one time ever since.
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May 29, 2017 22:05
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Khorne posted:The argument is Wailing Arrow is great and the right pick 99.98% of the time while Mind Control is fun and funny. That's my MC defense. Pretty much same here. But sure, I'll post the rank I have since I already admitted I'm bad and don't deny it. Mostly play QM and UD. My hotslogs MMR hovers between 1900 and 2100 most of the time. I know this is not accurate to real Blizzard MMR, it's just what I have.
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May 29, 2017 22:05
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Mind over Matter posted:Well, I suspect you're probably good enough that you get much better players with and against you than I do. But on the sort of teams I get, a squishy being out of position does not mean the enemy will collapse on them and get an instant pick like a pro team would. In my absolutely anecdotal, personal, mid-level experience, though? The big MIND CONTROL sign going up over a slightly mispositioned soft character is a huge neon light that screams "Kill this one!" to Sylvanas's team a lot of the time. It doesn't ALWAYS work, but it works frequently enough that it makes MC not a dead pick to me. Mind control makes you stop doing Sylvanas Things. Any ult that violates your primary purpose without enhancing it or providing more tools is probably a bad ult. A much better version of mind control that people are describing here is varian's taunt. Mind control is just a fun thing to do and sometimes leads to a kill. A squishy caught out of position is just as dead if you had used wailing arrow instead. Both ults will shut them down, so it doesn't make much sense to me to take mind control when it only works best if the enemy team is dumb.
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May 29, 2017 22:06
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AlphaKeny1 posted:Mind control makes you stop doing Sylvanas Things. Any ult that violates your primary purpose without enhancing it or providing more tools is probably a bad ult. A much better version of mind control that people are describing here is varian's taunt. Mind control is just a fun thing to do and sometimes leads to a kill. A squishy caught out of position is just as dead if you had used wailing arrow instead. Both ults will shut them down, so it doesn't make much sense to me to take mind control when it only works best if the enemy team is dumb. Yeah. My argument, and it is absolutely a weak one, is that it can make Sylvanas's team less dumb just long enough to get a pick, sometimes. In a way that Wailing Arrow may or may not. This is not an endorsement of MC as a strong overall ultimate. Looking at my HotsLogs records for Sylvanas I have picked MC 29 times to Wailing Arrow's 199 times. So I am definitely not saying to slam pick or even often pick MC.
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May 29, 2017 22:10
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Colossus Smash may be a very situational pick, but it is satisfying as hell to jump on a Li-Ming and knock her out of the loving ballpark. 
Bloody Pom fucked around with this message at 22:24 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 22:21
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Bloody Pom posted:Colossus Smash may be a very situational pick, but it is satisfying as hell to jump on a Li-Ming and knock her out of the loving ballpark. Its really disappointing that Taunt Varian is going to be the best choice 90% of the time cause both Colossus Smash and Twin Blades are so much fun.
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May 29, 2017 23:36
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I would only take Mind Control to isolate one crucial hero that is probably wrecking your face, like an Illidan or Sonya your team just wouldn't be able to deal with otherwise.
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May 29, 2017 23:46
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1stGear posted:Its really disappointing that Taunt Varian is going to be the best choice 90% of the time cause both Colossus Smash and Twin Blades are so much fun. If you're playing Draft, you pretty much only take Varian to be taunt Varian. If you're playing QM, you sometimes walk into times where those other two builds really can do degenerate things and have fun.
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May 29, 2017 23:54
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I remember how much self-healing Fury Varian had at release and I'm okay with that never being viable ever again
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May 30, 2017 00:08
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1982 Subaru Brat posted:I remember how much self-healing Fury Varian had at release and I'm okay with that never being viable ever again Release Fury Varian is probably the only thing that has made me as salty in HotS as current Tank Varian in QM does.
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May 30, 2017 00:17
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via reddit:quote:Geneva, Switzerland –
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May 30, 2017 00:18
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EdRush posted:I would only take Mind Control to isolate one crucial hero that is probably wrecking your face, like an Illidan or Sonya your team just wouldn't be able to deal with otherwise. If there's just one hero that your team can't deal with at all you were never going to win anyway, and stunning yourself while you run them into your team to kill everyone isn't going to help you.
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May 30, 2017 01:07
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Bullshit. MC probably isn't usually the best way to do it, for sure. But getting a 5v1 pick or whatever on the character that's been giving you trouble in a match lets you turn that into a 5v4 against the rest of their team and either pick up a solid lead to build on, or catch back up to parity. Leaving MC entirely aside, the concept of using a moment to turn a small advantage into a big one is a huge part of HotS and I've seen it happen so many times to turn matches around both for and against my team.
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May 30, 2017 01:11
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Varian and D.Va not being classified as tanks is loving ruinous
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May 30, 2017 01:19
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Ciaphas posted:Varian and D.Va not being classified as tanks is loving ruinous Agreed. Devil's advocate a little though, in QM at least you may be queuing up to play twin blades or colossus smash. Since the point of QM is to be able to be sure you can play the exact hero you want in the spec you want (regardless of if your team is equipped to support that) I don't know how they can fix Varian's classification. Maybe make you lock into if you're going to play damage or tank Varian before a match starts?
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May 30, 2017 01:25
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NeurosisHead posted:Agreed. Devil's advocate a little though, in QM at least you may be queuing up to play twin blades or colossus smash. Since the point of QM is to be able to be sure you can play the exact hero you want in the spec you want (regardless of if your team is equipped to support that) I don't know how they can fix Varian's classification. Maybe make you lock into if you're going to play damage or tank Varian before a match starts? Set it up like Nazeebo and his Superstition talent in Mage Wars; if Varian queues for QM and there are no warriors on the enemy team, then he can't choose Taunt at all for that match.
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May 30, 2017 01:36
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beejay posted:
Was confusing the effects, thought they were both Silences, but I was wrong! Also I bought the starter kit and got Azmo for free. 
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May 30, 2017 02:04
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Fuzz posted:Wailing Arrow is a crappier Artanis ult but that's not saying much because holy poo poo can you swing a team fight immediately with either one. Even in solo QM (and I've been playing for only a month so probably still bottom barrel MMR) I get kills every time with Mind Control. It is really loving loud and even that guy who seems to be playing with the minimap disabled will jump on the out-of-position enemy that walks right into your team while you are yodeling. I feel like Arrow is going to get better when I'm finally doing HL matches, but Mind Control is king when you're playing QM dumpster fire matches. Neither team is willing to initiate a teamfight. There is no sudden 5v5 clash, no big plays. Just two 5 man deathballs orbiting around each other. It's like musical chairs. Whoever is finally caught out of position gets killed, then the other 4 heroes on that team will slowly filter in to die one by one. I have also never been disabled or otherwise interrupted during a Mind Control channel. At higher skill levels I doubt that would be true. It's one of those skills that gets better the worse the players are. Like Bloodseeker ult in dota. tcjimbo posted:Anyone defending Mind Control needs to post their rank. I can't even do placements yet, I still need to get 14 characters to level 5. At my MMR Mind Control is 
WITCHCRAFT fucked around with this message at 03:21 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 03:12
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Oh yeah I ran into one of those stereotypical "bad stealth hero player" guys that took it so far it was unreal. Zeratul, player level 900 (with a star along the bottom - does that mean 1900?). End of a 20 minute match, had 3000 xp contributed. He used the time stop ult at the most random times. Enemy hero at 5% HP and about to die? Freeze it and two teamates. Drop it on a creep wave and walk away. Cast it on an empty spot of ground in the enemy base and then walk towards it, taking fire from a building. He would also walk to a creep camp when he had 90% health, and just stand there until he regenerated to 100% before fighting the camp. The mind boggles 
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May 30, 2017 03:43
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Yo why is no one talking about how amazingly fun Genji is, he gels so well with my play style. My play style being I gently caress around with very little health to bait the enemy into attacking me. I got away on less than 5% health so many times, if I were them I'd get so lovely. 
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May 30, 2017 03:44
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My favorite D.Va move : boosting deep to secure a kill on a low health runner or back liner, then getting back out safely. This is why Nitrous is the best level one talent! The D.Va move I keep trying to practice : launching a self-destructing mech to zone runners, most commonly cutting off the retreat of someone too far forward in lane. It feels like Q has one of those forced delays on it to prevent spam clicking, so you have to wait maybe a full second before you can stop it, which often screws up this move and also general bullying. It's my only real quality of life issue with her. Also I like that D.Va's master portrait is literally *winky face* (one of her OW lines for those that haven't played it - I don't think they ported that line to HotS).
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May 30, 2017 04:34
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NeurosisHead posted:Agreed. Devil's advocate a little though, in QM at least you may be queuing up to play twin blades or colossus smash. Since the point of QM is to be able to be sure you can play the exact hero you want in the spec you want (regardless of if your team is equipped to support that) I don't know how they can fix Varian's classification. Maybe make you lock into if you're going to play damage or tank Varian before a match starts? Half the support or warrior characters can be specced so they don't heal or tank, but that doesn't bar them from counting as your support or tank. Just because someone can choose not to tank warrior doesn't mean he shouldn't count as one for QM.
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May 30, 2017 04:40
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Coolness Averted posted:Half the support or warrior characters can be specced so they don't heal or tank, but that doesn't bar them from counting as your support or tank. Just because someone can choose not to tank warrior doesn't mean he shouldn't count as one for QM. ...No they can't?
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May 30, 2017 04:43
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Kalko posted:Also I like that D.Va's master portrait is literally *winky face* (one of her OW lines for those that haven't played it - I don't think they ported that line to HotS). They did, it's actually one of her unlockable voice lines too.
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May 30, 2017 05:03
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SirSamVimes posted:...No they can't? Spoken like someone who's never lost a game because their Li Li talented exclusively into Cloud Serpent, leaving her Healing Brews basically homeopathic.
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May 30, 2017 05:06
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Ciaphas posted:Varian and D.Va not being classified as tanks is loving ruinous Yeah, isn't D.va classed as a bruiser? And yet she does gently caress all damage but is tanky as gently caress.
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May 30, 2017 05:08
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