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I think that's a stretch. He's walking until he sees he's being followed and then he hauls rear end. He also shows a fear response and runs off when shadow Laura starts screaming at him earlier, as I recall.
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May 29, 2017 19:41
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genericnick posted:True about BOB. Did the Doppelarm appear at any point previously? Yeah https://youtu.be/yGlvWD4aoro
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May 29, 2017 19:50
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:I think that's a stretch. He's walking until he sees he's being followed and then he hauls rear end. He also shows a fear response and runs off when shadow Laura starts screaming at him earlier, as I recall. His doppelganger isn't actually confronting him, though. He's hiding behind the curtain, and Cooper only notices him when looking back. The doppelganger's trying to get to the exit first without the real version noticing. I think Cooper hauls rear end because he knows that, if he is too slow, the doppelganger leaves, and not he. Shadow Laura is a weird one, I'll grant you that. Cooper looks pretty freaked out by her, but then it seems like getting out of dodge doesn't do him any harm. Notably, we get a fear response with Laura, but not with his actual doppelganger. Even Leland doesn't seem to freak Cooper out as much.
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May 29, 2017 19:57
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The ocean also reminded me of videogame clipping mishaps.
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May 29, 2017 20:08
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I don't think the body is of Major Briggs, Bobby mentions that his dad died not long after the original show ended right?
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May 29, 2017 20:09
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DrVenkman posted:I don't think the body is of Major Briggs, Bobby mentions that his dad died not long after the original show ended right? Right. It's almost definitely not Briggs. Speaking of which, what was the deal with that murder and Matt Lillard? He didn't do it and was only acting sketchy because he was having an affair with the woman, yes? And BOB is most likely the real culprit?
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May 29, 2017 20:17
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El Jeffe posted:Speaking of which, what was the deal with that murder and Matt Lillard? He didn't do it and was only acting sketchy because he was having an affair with the woman, yes? And BOB is most likely the real culprit? He said he was there in a dream, so it could be either one. He could have been having an affair with her and separately been possessed, leading to the murder.
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May 29, 2017 20:21
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CottonWolf posted:He said he was there in a dream, so it could be either one. He could have been having an affair with her and separately been possessed, leading to the murder. Ah it didn't occur to me that he could've been possessed. I wonder if we'll be getting a new evil spirit then. e: Kulkasha posted:I think he's another Leland but his wife is the real mystery. Was she a doppelganger? I'm thinking that was just comic relief.
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May 29, 2017 20:25
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I think he's another Leland but his wife is the real mystery. Was she a doppelganger?
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May 29, 2017 20:25
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And More posted:His doppelganger isn't actually confronting him, though. He's hiding behind the curtain, and Cooper only notices him when looking back. The doppelganger's trying to get to the exit first without the real version noticing. I think Cooper hauls rear end because he knows that, if he is too slow, the doppelganger leaves, and not he. I think you're likely making retroactive revisions here. How would Cooper know anything about these rules that were just explained to him in S3? If the doppelganger was trying to sneak out then he would have just left when Cooper was distracted by any number of different things in the lodge. I certainly didn't see any hiding going on. He's pretty clearly chasing him and Cooper is pretty clearly running away. I love Cooper as much as the next guy, but I don't think there's any reason why he is isn't allowed to be flawed or imperfect as a character. Matter of fact, Hawk announces this too the first time that the lodge comes up. "Cooper, you may be fearless in this world. But there are other worlds. Worlds beyond life and death. Worlds beyond scientific reality."
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May 29, 2017 20:29
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what did you mean by this
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May 29, 2017 21:06
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That's the scene where Bob is beating Laura to death. At least I think it is. I made my AV ten years ago.  EDIT - VVVVV Yeah, right at the end. Train car, after the cabin. NObodyNOWHERE fucked around with this message at 00:04 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 21:17
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:That's the scene where Bob is beating Laura to death. At least I think it is. I made my AV ten years ago. Thats from right at the end of FWWM just after Laura runs off into the Woods right?
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May 29, 2017 21:33
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:I think you're likely making retroactive revisions here. How would Cooper know anything about these rules that were just explained to him in S3? Fairly sure I thought this after watching season two for the first time.  Maybe I phrased it wrong. I didn't mean know in the sense that someone actually told Cooper what would happen. My assumption was that he figures bad poo poo is about to happen, and he should leave.quote:If the doppelganger was trying to sneak out then he would have just left when Cooper was distracted by any number of different things in the lodge. I certainly didn't see any hiding going on. This is what I mean. The doppelganger doesn't step out entirely until Cooper has left, too.  The lodge also doesn't operate on real-world logic. Otherwise, the dancing man would probably not cartoonishly rub his hands together when he tries to poison Cooper. quote:"Cooper, you may be fearless in this world. But there are other worlds. Worlds beyond life and death. Worlds beyond scientific reality." Shouldn't he have been utterly destroyed, then? Hawk said so. 
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May 29, 2017 21:42
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And More posted:Fairly sure I thought this after watching season two for the first time. quote:The lodge also doesn't operate on real-world logic. Otherwise, the dancing man would probably not cartoonishly rub his hands together when he tries to poison Cooper. quote:Shouldn't he have been utterly destroyed, then? Hawk said so.  Just kidding. Like I said in an earlier post, I think Coop's wackiness is just residual effect of long term exposure to the lodge. I don't think everything Hawk says needs to be taken 100% literally. NObodyNOWHERE fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 23:55
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:You're welcome to interpret things however you please, obviously. […] That said, in this case it seems odd to me to build a narrative of Coop as a kick-rear end superhero […]. Seriously, one of the things I love about the lodge scenes in the finale was that Cooper was clearly in over his head for the first time and frightened by the things he saw. This was a bad bad trip for Cooper. The demolition of Cooper as a Mary Sue into an actual human hero is way more interesting to me than keeping him invincible and flawless. I don't know where you're getting that superhero stuff from, but I think we can agree that Cooper hosed up when he a) failed to stop Earle from kidnapping Annie b) was dumb enough to follow him into the lodge It was a very human, selfish thing to do, and it had some pretty dire consequences for the rest of the world. Whether Cooper showed fear or not doesn't really make a difference because he gets played like a fiddle by BOB, either way. Rewatching the scene with shadow Laura, interestingly, Cooper doesn't start running until Windom Earle's face flashes in front of his eyes. Of all the things he sees in the lodge, Earle himself seems like the one person Cooper is truly afraid of. That's probably why he gives up his soul so willingly. He genuinely thinks he doesn't stand a chance against Earle. quote:I really want to hear how Cooper describes his experience, so it would be nice if he'd sort himself out, soon. 
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May 30, 2017 00:25
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And More posted:I don't know where you're getting that superhero stuff from... Apple Craft posted:I do not think that Dale Cooper is intended to have failed in the black lodge. ...et al. And More posted:Rewatching the scene with shadow Laura, interestingly, Cooper doesn't start running until Windom Earle's face flashes in front of his eyes. Of all the things he sees in the lodge, Earle himself seems like the one person Cooper is truly afraid of. That's probably why he gives up his soul so willingly. He genuinely thinks he doesn't stand a chance against Earle. You think Cooper is scared of Windom Earle, but not Bob and the other lodge inhabitants?
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May 30, 2017 00:48
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:...et al. Well, Cooper is a cool guy, but he makes some really bad decisions, particularly over the course of season two. NObodyNOWHERE posted:You think Cooper is scared of Windom Earle, but not Bob and the other lodge inhabitants? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, he probably realises that he overestimated Earle and underestimated BOB when Earle gets his brain fried. Cooper just doesn't get a reason to fear BOB because he technically lets Coop go.
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May 30, 2017 00:57
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:You think Cooper is scared of Windom Earle, but not Bob and the other lodge inhabitants? I mean he's Cooper's former partner who became a crazed makavalian serial killer and murdered his own wife who Cooper was in love with, that's pretty spooky.
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May 30, 2017 01:03
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SleepCousinDeath posted:I mean he's Cooper's former partner who became a crazed makavalian serial killer and murdered his own wife who Cooper was in love with, that's pretty spooky. Earle also always won at chess. You know his rating was probably pretty high.  Listen, I'm not saying it was rational.
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May 30, 2017 01:14
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And More posted:Well, Cooper is a cool guy, but he makes some really bad decisions, particularly over the course of season two. Yeah, I'm with you there. While I was watching S2 again in the run up to the new series, I was repeatedly struck by how uncharacteristically stupid they made Coop at times. I don't buy at all that in the middle of everything he had going on with Windom Earle that he would have got involved with a new love interest, knowing he would put her in harms way. And if he did, by some bizarro leap of logic, decide to take the chance, I don't think there's any way he would have been hanging out with her in public places and going on dates and stuff like that. quote:Yeah, pretty much. I mean, he probably realises that he overestimated Earle and underestimated BOB when Earle gets his brain fried. Cooper just doesn't get a reason to fear BOB because he technically lets Coop go. No doubt, Cooper speaks of Earle with equal parts reverence and horror over the course of the series, but he's still a dude. I don't think Cooper is deluded enough to think that Earle is quite on the same threat level as "non-corporeal manifestation of absolute evil who possesses generations of people to commit serial murder and eat their victims' pain, fear and suffering." Maybe that's just me though.
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May 30, 2017 01:18
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The fact that he's just a dude and not some malevolent god is what would make him scary to Cooper, I'd assume. As far as I remember he wasn't possessed or anything, he just wanted to get in on that Black Lodge poo poo.
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May 30, 2017 01:32
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I think, as much as anything, Earle was an ominous figure for Cooper specifically because his re-emergence is a reminder that he wasn't good, smart or strong enough to beat him before. It seems to me that would have some significant implications when it comes to the conversation we've been having about the lodge.
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May 30, 2017 01:41
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DrVenkman posted:I don't think the body is of Major Briggs, Bobby mentions that his dad died not long after the original show ended rig He supposedly died in a fire at his top secret station the day after meeting the doppleganger. I'm sure the government would be totally up front about it if there was a problem with that story. The fact that the decapitated corpse resembled the Major and had its identification blocked by the military must be a coincidence. Much in the same way that we only see the Major's head say blue rose. LostRook fucked around with this message at 02:37 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 02:30
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So, this is a cool interview. It also confirms that BOB is in BadCoop in some way. http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/29/twin-peaks-kyle-maclachlan-dirty-cooper/ E: VVV I take it you haven't seen my posts using that as evidence for it (I even posted that picture in the last couple pages). I mentioned it because some people feel there's ambiguity in the new season as to whether or not BOB is in the DoppCoop. TheMaestroso fucked around with this message at 03:07 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 02:47
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TheMaestroso posted:So, this is a cool interview. It also confirms that BOB is in BadCoop in some way. That was confirmed in the last episode of season 2 via a mirror my friend.
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May 30, 2017 02:51
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CottonWolf posted:He said he was there in a dream, so it could be either one. He could have been having an affair with her and separately been possessed, leading to the murder. I might be misremembering something, but I think Ruth Davenport (the murder victim) and Hastings' never-seen assistant that he's having an affair with are two different people. Davenport is described as "the librarian" in the interview scene. I guess it's possible that she's pulling double-duty as both the librarian and the principal's assistant but that seems kind of weird. And I think Hastings and his wife are both meat-cars for Lodgers. Hastings is original Twin Peaks Leland, not truly aware of his actions until the bitter end. Mrs. Hastings is FWWM Leland, aware of what's going on and working in tandem with whatever's possessing her. The spirit that zips off out of frame in the cell block is Hastings' guy riding off into the sunset.
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May 30, 2017 03:11
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Earle represents Cooper's failings and flaws in a much less abstract way than a Doppelganger, so Cooper went into the Black Lodge and got bamboozled by two Doppelgangers
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May 30, 2017 03:13
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Mike Danger posted:I might be misremembering something, but I think Ruth Davenport (the murder victim) and Hastings' never-seen assistant that he's having an affair with are two different people. Davenport is described as "the librarian" in the interview scene. I guess it's possible that she's pulling double-duty as both the librarian and the principal's assistant but that seems kind of weird. I think Hasting's refers to his assistant as Betty. Considering that the police recognize him as the local school principal, I think they'd know whether Ruth was his assistant or not, so I think it's safe to assume Ruth and Hasting's assistant aren't the same person. But it's interesting that Dopplecoop is looking for some information that Hasting's assistant had, under the idea that "he knew it so she knew it". So maybe Hastings knows and is involved in some weird otherworldly stuff, or is possessed Leland-style and his occupying spirit knows stuff that may have been passed off to his assistant? I can't imagine that any information that Dopplecoop wants (not needs) is at all mundane stuff you'd expect a school principal to know about. I like your thoughts about Hasting's and his wife both being occupied, because otherwise who the hell is that weird spirit in the other cell, and why were the special effects so unusual when his wife is shot? But if that were the case I would think that maybe Hasting's wife would have had the information as well. But who knows, maybe we'll figure out a bit more next weekend. Vague detail I noticed that probably isn't something: The couch area outside the glass box is sort of like the furniture arrangement in the Red Room. There's room for two people to sit, and there's lamps on either side of uneven heights.
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May 30, 2017 04:04
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I can't figure out why, but Bowie's "we live in a dream" and "they live above a convenience store" lines chill me to the bone. Always have. And I keep thinking there's a song that samples those lines, but I've never been able to figure out what song. I thought it was something on Outside (Bowie's best album) but it's not.
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May 30, 2017 04:14
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precision posted:I can't figure out why, but Bowie's "we live in a dream" and "they live above a convenience store" lines chill me to the bone. Always have. And I keep thinking there's a song that samples those lines, but I've never been able to figure out what song. I thought it was something on Outside (Bowie's best album) but it's not. Statistically there probably is such a song, and I would swear I've heard the same. But if so it's probably some lesser-known industrial band that replaces lyrics with movie samples. I really actually wish they had left the whole David Bowie bit in the original cut of FWWM instead of the broken up version. The extended scene is way more interesting and unsettling and much better makes the point that he appeared in that elevator completely out of time and space and then returned to his original time and space and he had experienced something completely beyond comprehension. Most of the rest of the Missing Pieces bits I can understand cutting, but that edit makes no sense to me. precision posted:Outside (Bowie's best album) 
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May 30, 2017 04:29
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precision posted:And I keep thinking there's a song that samples those lines, but I've never been able to figure out what song. Meanwhile I've been looking for a thrash song that samples "Silencio"
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May 30, 2017 04:40
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El Jeffe posted:Right. It's almost definitely not Briggs. When they have the fight in the prison Lillard mentions that he knows about that one affair for sure, and suspects another. His wife then goes home and see's Evil-Coop, she acts like he is someone she recognizes but that his presence there is unexpected at that time ( she invites the man her husband know she is cheating on to her place later when she bumps into him leaving the jail) meaning we can assume she didn't expect anyone to be there with her. My guess is maybe Evil-Coop was sleeping with Lillard's wife and convinced her to frame him. Maybe Evil-Coop committed the murder, or possibly the wife did, with Evil-Coop adding the fat man's body? Though the possibility of multiple spirits existing is something I can see being a thing. I wonder if maybe there was another letter in the nail that wasn't found that may come into play later if it was BOB?
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May 30, 2017 05:35
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I think we can clearly conclude that she was seeing Coopler just from her reaction on seeing him. Surprised but sort of flirty?
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May 30, 2017 06:30
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coopelganger has the kavorka
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May 30, 2017 06:33
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Jumping back into the opening of Episode 3 for a moment.... I am almost absolutely certain (it is a little hard to tell with the jerky camera movements and the really weird lighting) but I am almost positive that *before* Cooper and Blind Girl step outside - where a flip is switched that causes both the lighting to revert to normal, the number and electrical socket to change, Ronette appears, etc.... But, er, where was I? Well, before that level is pulled (which also reminds me of a slot lever too, in a way) I am 99% positive there is *only* a lamp on the table nearby the electrical panel. But after Coop and the girl go up top, and the flip gets switched and Coop sees the ghostly image of Major Briggs say "Blue Rose" indistinctly - well, when Coop gets back down to speak to Ronette, there is now a small vase on the same table as the lamp, holding a Blue Rose. What I don't get is why it wasn't there before. I'm still just trying to little bits of understanding through this. Obviously 253 was a number the Giant told him, and that was also the time that elapsed on Ronette's watch right before the lamp switched and the electrical humming kicked in (probably meaning Dale could go through the, er, AC/DC portal I suppose in that minute and only that minute I think). edit: I was watching it with subtitles on Amazon and I thought they described the sound effects during Mr. C's vomiting spell as: *intense, ominous vomiting* *stifled crackling* But it turns that I misread as the result of two things be described... I actually only really saw the description "intense ominous vomiting" and it was such a perfect description I didn't question it. Of course, it turned out the verbs at the end of the two phrases ought be swapped to be accurate, but I think my version is better. There are few other vomiting spells in film or TV that I could describe as equally "intense and ominous", excepting the one perhaps portrayed in the film adaptation of Stand By Me. Even then, I don't think it's nearly as ominous as Mr. C's deadly and toxic combo of Garmonbozia and scorched engine oil and... Blood, I think? kaworu fucked around with this message at 15:00 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 14:42
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kaworu posted:Jumping back into the opening of Episode 3 for a moment....
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May 30, 2017 14:47
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JazzFlight posted:I think someone also pointed out that 315 is his room number on his Great Northern key and the numbers on the electrical socket were 15, then 3. I'd also be curious as to what he exact date is when Cooper comes through and the BOB-manufactured Cooper is pulled in. Also, I had a brief moment of connection... Manufactured-Cooper briefly turned into an image (which actually seemed almost to be two-dimensional that, I *thought* looked a lot like the bizarre image we see on the Ace of Spades that Cooper showed Darya before killing her. And then he turns into a large golden pearl which shrinks into a smaller golden pearl. Only connection I can make is to "Pearl Lakes", which is indeed a place fairly heavily where associated with Bob. That where Leland got possessed, supposedly, and the family nearby was "Robertson". Wonder if we will meet people from the Robertson family, or if we already have. edit: And just about Cooper's vomit, it definitely does go from Yellow with definite kernels of corm (Creamed Corn/Garmonbozia) to black ("scorched engine oil" like from the pool at Glastonbury Grove?) and then to a mixture of liquid and yellow and black, and finally with *red* mixed in at the end. And I doubt in Mr. C's case it's Cherry Pie. kaworu fucked around with this message at 15:09 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 15:05
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On one last note, am I the only one who believes that as of the end of the Episode 4 - when Cooper finally receives that all important dose of coffee, it literally snapped him right back to being in the real world? Because the entire attitude and manner of his look and speech is TOTALLY different when he looks up almost grinning and says "Hi!" I think it's ultimately kinda like.. Popeye and his Spinach in a way, you know? It's been 25+ years since his last cup of coffee so naturally Cooper is an absolute *zombie*, and the moment that drat fine liquid just begins to go down his throat it's like a chain reaction, and BOOM. I know, it's a bit on the silly side of things and fairly off-kilter, but so is this whole series. The recent use of garmonbozia kind of shows that certain foods/drinks have v I dunno, I just think Twin Peaks is silly/quirky enough for something like that to be the answer. How the hell else is Cooper going to regain his memory? Not to mention, Lynch knows that Kyle Maclachlan needs to be *honestly* playing the good Agent Cooper that we know and love, and that he needs to get back to Twin Peaks. Lynch knows it is stupid to delay this and he's not doing this series to follow what the corporate execs say and stretch things out as long he can for multiple seasons to push the viewer's patience as much as he can before giving them certain things he knows are wanted and expected (Cooper in his right mind back in Twin Peaks for example). It is much more Lynch's style to give the viewer's what they 'want' very quickly, and then raise new issues and mysteries which leaves them wanting and thinking about something else entirely. This is where Buckhorn murder plot will really come in handy in terms of building dramatic tension, I think. There will be things going in Buckhorn, Twin Peaks, Las Vegas, and possibly still NYC which are all connected, but we (the audience) are obviously going to know what some of those connections may be. I guess you could add Red Room/Purple Room/Black Lodge/White Lodge/Abyss of Stars to other locations now  But anyway... All we really now is that Mr. C is involved in both Las Vegas and Buckhorn. Does anyone else believe that it was Mr. C who hired those guys to kill "Dougie"/Agent Cooper? I honestly can't imagine who else. Mr, C would have known exactly when Dale was transporting and who he has was switching with, and I believe the money exchanged in either episode 1 or 2 at the Casino had to do with this job, and the person Mr. Todd was describing whom his assistant would "never want in his life" would have to be Mr. C, I would think. kaworu fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 16:32
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I think it's definitely possible that the coffee snapped him out of it, but it's also deliberately left open until next episode. Which I can hardly wait for.
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May 30, 2017 18:54
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