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Lightning Lord posted:What's the collective name for Vermin Supreme supporters? Demon Rats.
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May 30, 2017 03:14
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Let's call them Dores after Jimmy Dore. Remember when Dore said Trump would be fine because the Democrats would just filibuster the Supreme Court nomination for 4 years until America elects Bernie-san in 2020? Sam Seder asked him "what if Republicans just remove the filibuster and ram another conservative nutjob through" and Dore scoffed and said "well what if the moon crashes into Lake Michigan, stop with the fantasies". That's the only interview I've ever heard from Jimmy Dore, but he might be the dumbest pundit on earth.
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May 30, 2017 03:14
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Let's call them Dores after Jimmy Dore. I prefer Jill Shills since it compares them to the antivaxx fucks that I hate with every fiber of my existence.
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May 30, 2017 03:14
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FizFashizzle posted:Oh wow I'm really misremembering that then. We cool, I'm just fed up enough with the current state of campaign finance that it irrationally irritates me when I see misinformation about it (as if "corporate corruption" is new or symptomatic of a certain type of D) Ice Phisherman posted:The democrats do it too, but they've done it while being socially egalitarian because minority rights don't effect bottom lines but not financially egalitarian because that would effect bottom lines. A nice narrative that's difficult to reconcile with Perez' tenure at Labor, the severe pushback from corporations against him, and his subsequent rise to the head of the DNC with the backing of the "centrist"/"establishment"/"neoliberal" wing of the Democratic Party.
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May 30, 2017 03:15
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FizFashizzle posted:Yes but that's the point. It'll still be a starvation wage at 8.37 or whatever the dems settle on, which does nothing for their base and still gets them butchered in the next election. For nothing substantial. Except Pelosi is exactly calling back to when they passed the $7.25 within the first 100 hours and is saying they'll do the same for $15.
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May 30, 2017 03:20
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VitalSigns posted:That's the only interview I've ever heard from Jimmy Dore, but he might be the dumbest pundit on earth. Isn't he one of those Young Turks that has SJW Derangement Syndrome? In that he thinks everything bad in the world has been caused by kids on tumblr?
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May 30, 2017 03:20
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Lightning Lord posted:What replaces the DNC? A branch of Socialist International? Probably just the younger more leftist people slowly overtake positions of power within the party, rather than a coup or the formation of a new party from scratch
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May 30, 2017 03:22
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VitalSigns posted:Remember when Dore said Trump would be fine because the Democrats would just filibuster the Supreme Court nomination for 4 years until America elects Bernie-san in 2020? Sam Seder asked him "what if Republicans just remove the filibuster and ram another conservative nutjob through" and Dore scoffed and said "well what if the moon crashes into Lake Michigan, stop with the fantasies". Didn't see that since I stopped watching TYT after Hillary won the primaries and they went off the deep end.
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May 30, 2017 03:22
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The Dems will go for a cautious 12 or some poo poo phased in over 8 years in the cities, and 10 rural, and by the time they get butchered again no one's purchasing power will have changed
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May 30, 2017 03:22
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So Birth Control and Cuba are getting rolled back this week. Jfc
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May 30, 2017 03:22
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:So Birth Control and Cuba are getting rolled back this week. Jfc I smell an opportunity for angry Cubans...
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May 30, 2017 03:24
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:So Birth Control and Cuba are getting rolled back this week. Jfc Good get pissed. Make some noise.
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May 30, 2017 03:24
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The Glumslinger posted:Probably just the younger more leftist people slowly overtake positions of power within the party, rather than a coup or the formation of a new party from scratch Younger, leftist people are mocked and driven from Democratic party institutions with great enthusiasm. There's a reason DSA is swelling with new members.
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May 30, 2017 03:24
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FizFashizzle posted:Few, unfortunately, but that's what is should be. Whether or not it's fair, something like a $23 minimum wage in the next few years would massively affect employment. Up to around $15 people are going to remain employed and will reap the benefit of the higher wage. Higher than that and employers can't absorb the cost and will start letting employees go. At that point it does more harm than good to people - $15 is better than being unemployed. Egalitarian policies need to be checked against the way our economy works to ensure that they don't do more harm than good.
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May 30, 2017 03:25
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The Glumslinger posted:Probably just the younger more leftist people slowly overtake positions of power within the party, rather than a coup or the formation of a new party from scratch Or the younger bernie followers jade over into centrists like always.
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May 30, 2017 03:25
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Paracaidas posted:A nice narrative that's difficult to reconcile with Perez' tenure at Labor, the severe pushback from corporations against him, and his subsequent rise to the head of the DNC with the backing of the "centrist"/"establishment"/"neoliberal" wing of the Democratic Party. Both parties are weird like this. They're basically coalition governments in all but name and they represent a crazy wide cross section of America because of it. The democrats are no different and they pick up the moderate right to the far left because of it. In fact they also pick up right wing minority voters because constituencies like black people and Muslims have suffered under the abuse of the republican party and are captured by the fact that democrats don't actively demonize and abuse them (much). The democrats don't really espouse one view for the country. Instead they're bloated with views just like the republicans. So when you say, "Yeah, but there's other people like that," I'd really say that it's only recently that due to Bernie Sanders helping to give a voice to the left and far left that politicians are finally able to recognize them as the possible constituency. The far left always existed and never went away, they were just ignored after they were thoroughly defeated by the republicans in the sixties. The party reformed during the Clinton era and the moderate right business friendly democrats are what we got. Only really within the last year or so has the left that was represented in the 1960's and further back found a voice and people willing to represent them in congress once again. Not to belittle your statement, but when you say, "But what about X person or Y constituency", the two parties draw from amazingly wide pools because our first past the post system really only allows for two. Two parties aren't enough, but unwilling to change the rules to allow for more precise representation and water down their own party's brands you end up with two parties trying to represent everyone and not doing a very good job of it for reasons that are both political and structural. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 03:28 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 03:26
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Paracaidas posted:A nice narrative that's difficult to reconcile with Perez' tenure at Labor, the severe pushback from corporations against him, and his subsequent rise to the head of the DNC with the backing of the "centrist"/"establishment"/"neoliberal" wing of the Democratic Party. Well now you're just baiting the lunatics who think Perez is a neoliberal scumbag.
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May 30, 2017 03:28
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Party Plane Jones posted:And a piece about Sessions We need an "it's happening" gif with ron paul's head replaced with Sessions's head wearing his klan hood. If by some miracle Trump's administration goes down, Sessions needs to be executed immediately and publicly like we should've done to Confederate leadership the last time. EngineerJoe posted:You guys called it: I can't even be happy about being right on this because it just makes me sad these idiots are so easy to read and that there's millions of them.
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May 30, 2017 03:29
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I wish there was a way to tell what percentage of the Doland was bots.
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May 30, 2017 03:31
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The most important wage fight is adding in "tied to inflation" language and don't you dare dismiss that if you call yourself a liberal/leftist or whatever.
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May 30, 2017 03:31
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Ice Phisherman posted:Not to belittle your statement, but when you say, "But what about X person or Y constituency", the two parties draw from amazingly wide pools because our first past the post system really only allows for two. Two parties aren't enough, but unwilling to change the rules to allow for more precise representation and water down their own party's brands you end up with two parties trying to represent everyone and not doing a very good job of it for reasons that are both political and structural. To belittle your statement: I'm not saying 'X person or Y constituency'. I'm saying that the people you claim are holding the Dems back from financial egalitarianism put into place someone whose most notable achievements were loving up the bottom lines of corporate America, Food Service, and Retail. Please tell me more about how anyone with left views only have power due to Bernie though  GreyjoyBastard posted:Well now you're just baiting the lunatics who think Perez is a neoliberal scumbag. poo poo, busted.
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May 30, 2017 03:32
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Mustached Demon posted:The most important wage fight is adding in "tied to inflation" language and don't you dare dismiss that if you call yourself a liberal/leftist or whatever. Oh absolutely. Adding that clause to a lot of things like the gas tax would make a world of difference.
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May 30, 2017 03:33
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Raere posted:Whether or not it's fair, something like a $23 minimum wage in the next few years would massively affect employment. Up to around $15 people are going to remain employed and will reap the benefit of the higher wage. Higher than that and employers can't absorb the cost and will start letting employees go. At that point it does more harm than good to people - $15 is better than being unemployed. Egalitarian policies need to be checked against the way our economy works to ensure that they don't do more harm than good. None of the people who predicted unemployment every time we raised the minimum wage have ever been right. They have a 100% unbroken track record of being wrong, every time. Maybe they'll finally be right this time but idk I'm glad we didn't listen to them every other time. E: also European countries with a de facto minimum wage of $20 didn't see it "massively effect employment"
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May 30, 2017 03:33
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Evil Fluffy posted:I can't even be happy about being right on this because it just makes me sad these idiots are so easy to read and that there's millions of them.  Based Rob Schneider.
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May 30, 2017 03:35
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Sessions is by far the worst most damaging things this administration has done.
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May 30, 2017 03:35
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Ontario might raise their minwage to $15 tomorrow, so we'll see if Toronto explodes or something
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May 30, 2017 03:37
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Sessions is by far the worst most damaging things this administration has done. Give Gorusch time, man
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May 30, 2017 03:43
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Paracaidas posted:Please tell me more about how anyone with left views only have power due to Bernie though Until Bernie the far left was horribly underrepresented. There were a few notables but they were rare, and the democrats when compared to other democracies are usually fixed where the right wing party is. Is he the only reason they have power? Of course not. However the movement he's begun to create making lemonade out of those lemons of his defeat are one of the few organized things that the far left has been able to accomplish in years. He's not doing it all on his own of course, but he's a unifying figure with plenty of street cred that the far left tends to listen to. Ague Proof posted:
Rob Schneider is a talentless hack actor with everything going for him. Only problem is that he's about to become... *Record scratch*. An idiot!
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May 30, 2017 03:47
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FilthyImp posted:Give Gorusch time, man Pruitt's the reincarnation of Thomas Midley Jr so he's in the running too.
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May 30, 2017 03:48
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VitalSigns posted:None of the people who predicted unemployment every time we raised the minimum wage have ever been right. They have a 100% unbroken track record of being wrong, every time. It depends on the magnitude of the increase. People who say that increasing the minimum wage a few dollars will cause mass unemployment are wrong and always will be. But increasing it four fold? You don't need to talk to an economist to know that it would have a large effect.
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May 30, 2017 03:49
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Raere posted:Whether or not it's fair, something like a $23 minimum wage in the next few years would massively affect employment. Up to around $15 people are going to remain employed and will reap the benefit of the higher wage. Higher than that and employers can't absorb the cost and will start letting employees go. At that point it does more harm than good to people - $15 is better than being unemployed. Egalitarian policies need to be checked against the way our economy works to ensure that they don't do more harm than good. This is bad and dangerous thinking and misunderstands the situation from multiple angles. A) This is literally the Republican line. Choosing as specific a number as $20, is there some source you'd like to share that demonstrates when exactly employers need to let people go? Most business's are already extremely streamlined and function with a bare minimum personnel. B) For the same reason that food stamps are an effective economic stimulus, if you take somebody that has very little purchasing power and suddenly double or triple it, all of that capital is going STRAIGHT into consumption-food, rent, utilities, clothes, cars, electronics, whatever. Any increase in the minimum wage is guaranteed to be spent, locally, and immediately. Sure, maybe your labor costs increase, but suddenly everyone in that community - your costumer base - has three times the money to buy your products with. Even Ford understood this, and paid his employees enough to be able to purchase a Ford car. Contrast that with walmart, which receives a billion dollar subsidy to its employees in the form of food stamps, and despite its size does very little to alleviate poverty wherever it's operating.
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May 30, 2017 03:50
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Think of it as a day to honor some of the victims of late stage capitalism Two-time CMH winner Smedley Butler posted:I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
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May 30, 2017 03:51
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Sorus posted:https://twitter.com/AdamParkhomenko/status/868629163170820098 Anyone have a Trump tweet or vid where he says he really respects Manson, because he gets great ratings... Not as good as his of course, but still big league huge!
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May 30, 2017 03:52
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Raere posted:It depends on the magnitude of the increase. People who say that increasing the minimum wage a few dollars will cause mass unemployment are wrong and always will be. But increasing it four fold? You don't need to talk to an economist to know that it would have a large effect. Yeah. This. There are real reasons why minimum wage isn't pegged to inflation for example both good and bad, but if you go too high too fast businesses won't be able to adjust. Also going too high will increase the pace of automation. Its already coming down the pipeline and you can see it increasingly replacing jobs, but increasing minimum wage will definitely accelerate the process. It'll also make many of our businesses less competitive because the work can be done cheaper overseas. There will be job loss and business loss from minimum income increases, at least initially, but $7.25 an hour is a starvation wage. Too poor to afford bootstraps. The flaming lip posted:B) For the same reason that food stamps are an effective economic stimulus, if you take somebody that has very little purchasing power and suddenly double or triple it, all of that capital is going STRAIGHT into consumption-food, rent, utilities, clothes, cars, electronics, whatever. Any increase in the minimum wage is guaranteed to be spent, locally, and immediately. Sure, maybe your labor costs increase, but suddenly everyone in that community - your costumer base - has three times the money to buy your products with. Tripling wages would be wildly inflationary and would be a very bad thing. In fact any raise of their wages will have an inflationary effect. This isn't necessarily bad, but it's very important not to go up too fast or you gently caress up the economy. Tripling wages even over the period of a two term presidency would devastate the economy. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 03:57 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 03:54
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The flaming lip posted:This is bad and dangerous thinking and misunderstands the situation from multiple angles. My source is economist Thomas Piketty, who actually said quote:On the basis of these studies, it seems likely that the increase in minimum wage of nearly 25% (from $7.25 to $9 an hour) currently envisaged by the Obama administration will have little or no effect on the number of jobs. Obviously, raising the minimum wage cannot continue indefinitely: as the minimum wage increases, the negative effects on the level of employment eventually win out. If the minimum wage were doubled or tripled, it would be surprising if the negative impact were not dominant.
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May 30, 2017 03:57
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Evil Fluffy posted:We need an "it's happening" gif with ron paul's head replaced with Sessions's head wearing his klan hood. I truly and sincerely hate Sessions, but normalizing executing one's political enemies is not a road we should ever go down.
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May 30, 2017 03:59
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VitalSigns posted:None of the people who predicted unemployment every time we raised the minimum wage have ever been right. They have a 100% unbroken track record of being wrong, every time. The issue is tripling it at any reasonable rate is obviously going to shock the economy. We're talking about a totally different scale than previous efforts. We're just that far behind.
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May 30, 2017 03:59
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Hell I'll accept a 12 dollar min. Wage if they also included a provision to adjust it with inflation. Fight for the higher later but get that provision added in and fight to keep it in.
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May 30, 2017 03:59
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Raere posted:My source is economist Thomas Piketty, who actually said Yeah. This. It's important to find the point where wages can be increased while managing or even negating most negative impacts. Pegging the minimum income to an arbitrary number is a bad idea. Minimum income means gently caress all to people who don't have jobs in the first place. Spiffster posted:Hell I'll accept a 12 dollar min. Wage if they also included a provision to adjust it with inflation. Fight for the higher later but get that provision added in and fight to keep it in. I feel like pegging minimum wage to inflation is a recipe for a crisis. When, not if, but when we enter a period of stagflation (stagnation and inflation) and we see nasty inflation like we did in the Carter era for example (15%) you'll see wages rise uncontrollably with inflation and when it picks up steam and the minimum wage raises and picks up people making just over it and so on and so forth you can see a nasty negative feedback loop until it stabilizes. If it stabilizes. Not raising wages when they can reasonably be raised is a bad thing, but pegging wages to inflation is asking for trouble on a long enough timeline. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 04:03 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 04:00
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Ice Phisherman posted:Yeah. This. There are real reasons why minimum wage isn't pegged to inflation for example both good and bad, whats the good reasons? (honest question, happy to be pointed at longer reads if you cant be bothered summarizing)
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May 30, 2017 04:00
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