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Does anybody know what the formula is for growth of non-primary species on a mixed planet? There seems to be a pretty substantial penalty, but I'm not sure exactly what or why.
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# ? May 29, 2017 12:41 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 11:29 |
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Mouseover the growth bar, it should tell you exactly what the modifiers are.
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# ? May 29, 2017 12:43 |
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Truga posted:Mouseover the growth bar, it should tell you exactly what the modifiers are. It doesn't. Here's an example of a planet with 2 species (the space elves are the primary species): Looking at the primary species growth: There is a 1.0 base growth, 2 plus 10% modifiers only (from tech and tradition), and then I end up with a monthly growth rate below 1.0 at 0.93. On the secondary species growth, it's even worse: Same base display, same modifiers, and somehow only 0.31 growth. It's like the game took my base 1.0 growth, applied the modifiers, and then divided it across the species, which seems like a real annoyance to multi-species empires.
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# ? May 29, 2017 12:59 |
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Well that's bloody odd. I said before that my Curator scientist got elected leader. No worries, turns out that means I can hire a new one and when elections come around that means I'll have two. Except what actually happens is that the election comes up and the Curator is the only candidate. Did I just wind up with a space Putin?
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# ? May 29, 2017 13:55 |
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Captain Oblivious posted:Positive ethics attraction appears to do next to nothing right now. It's maddening. Add it to the list with migration attraction, and the xenophile ethos in general. Stellaris - The Mechanics Do Nothing
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# ? May 29, 2017 14:12 |
ulmont posted:It doesn't. Here's an example of a planet with 2 species (the space elves are the primary species): There's also that cool thing where the requirement increases with each pop so if you have one of species X and a bunch of species Y, species Y will grow faster and you will get maybe one of species X at the very end. Species X's main purpose is to simply hinder your growth rate.
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# ? May 29, 2017 14:16 |
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ulmont posted:It's like the game took my base 1.0 growth, applied the modifiers, and then divided it across the species, which seems like a real annoyance to multi-species empires. That is funny. Maybe because you have 3 humanoids but just one of the other guys? Maybe that's the catch, 3 people reproduce 3 times as fast as just 1?
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# ? May 29, 2017 14:17 |
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misguided rage posted:Pretty sure you can't apply it to pops being purged, which is kind of a bummer. Then what in the gently caress is the point
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# ? May 29, 2017 14:22 |
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How broken is the game right now? I was gonna play, but considering all the mechanics that seem to be busted right now I get the feeling I'm better off waiting for the next patch.
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# ? May 29, 2017 14:24 |
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Truga posted:Maybe because you have 3 humanoids but just one of the other guys? Maybe that's the catch, 3 people reproduce 3 times as fast as just 1? I think you're right - it takes your modified population growth and splits it across all species on a planet in proportion to their existing population, meaning you get no benefit out of a multi-species planet at all. Shugojin posted:Then what in the gently caress is the point Riding out the recently conquered penalty. TomViolence posted:How broken is the game right now? I was gonna play, but considering all the mechanics that seem to be busted right now I get the feeling I'm better off waiting for the next patch. It's fun, come on in.
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# ? May 29, 2017 14:28 |
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what's a Curator scientist? is that from the DLC?
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# ? May 29, 2017 14:31 |
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Curators One of the enclave stations you randomnly get contacted by where you can trade for stuff. Can get a scientist with high enough reputation with them. e: requires leviathans dlc Rynoto fucked around with this message at 14:49 on May 29, 2017 |
# ? May 29, 2017 14:46 |
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TomViolence posted:How broken is the game right now? I was gonna play, but considering all the mechanics that seem to be busted right now I get the feeling I'm better off waiting for the next patch. It's not really broken at all- the only reason we're kicking at these issues is that the honeymoon phase is over and new weird problems keep popping up, but don't get the wrong impression, 90% of this game works really well and is hecka fun I feel
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# ? May 29, 2017 14:48 |
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:not sure I understand what happened here, did you think that turning on purging was like "root out the disloyal subjects" instead of "kill everyone"? Partly, I mixed up displacement with outright purging. Like someone else said, this is one of the most sophisticated Stalinism simulators out there. The options for being an evil overlord are somewhat extensive. MadJackMcJack posted:Goddamnit, I had a Curator happily plugging away at my science and my government went and elected him President This is even more annoyingly when your prize admiral is swept off to enjoy the trappings of power right in the middle of leading The ISS Doomstack against an armada of The Confederation of Maneating Space Lizards. This should not happen, especially mid battle.
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# ? May 29, 2017 15:00 |
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TomViolence posted:How broken is the game right now? I was gonna play, but considering all the mechanics that seem to be busted right now I get the feeling I'm better off waiting for the next patch. Not much, honestly. There's just weird/annoying issues at the periphery after you've played a long time and know where to look. It really doesn't matter to 95% of gameplay. I think ethics attraction is probably the most genuinely relevant busted mechanic, and even it's still mostly an annoying inconvenience.
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# ? May 29, 2017 15:26 |
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Bohemian Nights posted:It's not really broken at all- the only reason we're kicking at these issues is that the honeymoon phase is over and new weird problems keep popping up, but don't get the wrong impression, 90% of this game works really well and is hecka fun I feel The thing is, it's too much fun. I'm at 317 hours now and still far from done.
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# ? May 29, 2017 15:29 |
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Spanish Matlock posted:Add it to the list with migration attraction, and the xenophile ethos in general. Migration attraction is fixed. It's definitely just attraction to the ethoses which is broken. I've had militarist pops on six planets with orbital mind control lasers, the Ascention perk that increases attraction AND re-education going for two hundred years and it's not changed.
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# ? May 29, 2017 16:32 |
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Why is this dude so salty: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/modability-suggestions.928316/page-25#post-22885485AlphaAsh posted:Fix using pop_environment_tolerance on buildings please, so it's correctly accounted for for purposes of forced migration and reported planet habitability. Or cop out (again) and just remove it from the last remaining vanilla building it's on, the Visitor Centre, effectively deprecating the only decent modifier modders have left for affecting planet habitability with buildings. Because that's always easier.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:01 |
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GunnerJ posted:Why is this dude so salty: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/modability-suggestions.928316/page-25#post-22885485 that dude is going to be hired to work on this game by next year, mark my words
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:07 |
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Shugojin posted:Then what in the gently caress is the point If you are using the livestock slavery option it works wonders. Shame the livestock slavery sucks.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:41 |
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ulmont posted:Does anybody know what the formula is for growth of non-primary species on a mixed planet? There seems to be a pretty substantial penalty, but I'm not sure exactly what or why. Total growth is spread out among all species depending on how large a part of the planet's population they are.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:49 |
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Wiz posted:Total growth is spread out among all species depending on how large a part of the planet's population they are. Is the intention to gimp one of the advantages of xenophiles? Because xenophilia was clearly OP before.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:51 |
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Wiz posted:Total growth is spread out among all species depending on how large a part of the planet's population they are. this could probably stand to be better communicated in the UI it's also AFAICT a significant nerf to multispecies planets because a pop growing at 70% and a pop growing at 30% are not as good as a pop growing at 100%, because pops aren't productive until they're fully grown Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 17:56 on May 29, 2017 |
# ? May 29, 2017 17:53 |
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Taear posted:Migration attraction is fixed. It's definitely just attraction to the ethoses which is broken. I've had militarist pops on six planets with orbital mind control lasers, the Ascention perk that increases attraction AND re-education going for two hundred years and it's not changed. Last I heard pops only move from full planets, did they fix the thing where xenophile Utopias would be less attractive than planets inside of a despotic slaver empire?
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:55 |
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ulmont posted:You can. You just have to make sure that when you rezip the save file that there are a few picky settings. I don't suppose you can elaborate on the process? The wiki article listed is almost totally incomprehensible to me because it seems to presume a baseline of knowledge. I, for example, cannot find any reference in the 7zip program to a way to not include NTFS timestamps like they suggest. I've figured out how, in Notepad++, to edit the gamestate file how I need to I just have absolutely no idea what the order of operations and actions I should be taking with regards to unzipping (?) and rezipping (?) the .sav file, or how.
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# ? May 29, 2017 17:56 |
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Aethernet posted:Is the intention to gimp one of the advantages of xenophiles? It's always been this way. Having your growth multiplied by your number of species would be stupidly overpowered. Cease to Hope posted:this could probably stand to be better communicated in the UI They also do not count against growth penalty until fully grown, so a planet with multiple species will fill up faster overall.
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:14 |
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Captain Oblivious posted:I don't suppose you can elaborate on the process? The wiki article listed is almost totally incomprehensible to me because it seems to presume a baseline of knowledge. I, for example, cannot find any reference in the 7zip program to a way to not include NTFS timestamps like they suggest. Actually nevermind, I bumblefucked my way into successfully editing an ironman save yaaaay Wiz posted:It's always been this way. Having your growth multiplied by your number of species would be stupidly overpowered. My understanding is that the way it currently works is that two species will grow two pops in basically the same time frame as one species would grow two. Do you think that, as an incentive to not enslave the galaxy, one might consider specifically increasing it to some middle ground between the broken ideal (two species produce one pop each effectively doubling growth) and the current system, specifically for civs that are extending equal rights to both populations? Slavers would keep the functionally identical pop growth rate, xenophiles get an effective boost by maintaining parity between the races at the trade off of consumer goods. Just spitballing ideas here. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 18:19 on May 29, 2017 |
# ? May 29, 2017 18:15 |
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Spanish Matlock posted:Last I heard pops only move from full planets, did they fix the thing where xenophile Utopias would be less attractive than planets inside of a despotic slaver empire? They do only move from full planets. The only real "issue" with migration now is a deliberate one, which is that only one pop can be migrating to a planet at any one time.
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:22 |
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Wiz posted:They also do not count against growth penalty until fully grown, so a planet with multiple species will fill up faster overall. fair enough! a better, possibly timeline-style visualization for growth might help to communicate this. X pop due at Y time, causes are A B C
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:24 |
Wiz posted:It's always been this way. Having your growth multiplied by your number of species would be stupidly overpowered. This is not true. If you have several pops of one species, and one of another who migrated, the smaller pop will grow at a very slow rate to the point that as the main pop grows, the increased requirement for the next pop will scale up on the slowly growing pop to a point where the primary pop will easily grow a bunch of times (possibly filling the planet up) before the smaller pop grows once. All the while, that primary pop is growing at a reduced rate due to the secondary pop and the growth going into the secondary pop bucket is wasted until the end as a partially grown pop does not produce. You are basically very slowly filling the last pop growth bucket with earlier pop growth points which slows earlier growth. Earlier growth is better as more pops earlier will increase planetary output and slowing early growth by 10-30%ish is decreasing the amount of output you get out of the planet during the growth window. Overall the effect is minor but it is flat out slowing productivity increases of a planet to have an alien pop migrate to a planet with a bunch of your own pops already present. If the cost to grow a pop was locked in when it started growing then it wouldn't be as bad. Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 18:34 on May 29, 2017 |
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# ? May 29, 2017 18:27 |
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PittTheElder posted:Because I was too lazy to do any math, I switched back to Mining Guilds, and crippled my mineral income. I think I figured out the theoretical reason. By some point in the game, most of my mineral income is actually "from sectors" which don't get the mining guilds bonus, letting ecologist pull way ahead. Captain Oblivious posted:I don't suppose you can elaborate on the process? The wiki article listed is almost totally incomprehensible to me because it seems to presume a baseline of knowledge. I, for example, cannot find any reference in the 7zip program to a way to not include NTFS timestamps like they suggest. I see you got it, but they show you the 7zip options to select when adding your files: Wiz posted:It's always been this way. Having your growth multiplied by your number of species would be stupidly overpowered. I guess so, but I thought there was supposed to be some benefit in the xenophile playstyle other than just migrations? EDIT: Someone had asked if the trigger for awakening an FE had moved up. It is currently fleet power 50000, which I think is up from 40000. code:
ulmont fucked around with this message at 20:38 on May 29, 2017 |
# ? May 29, 2017 18:28 |
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Are there any good mods for just increasing the size of the ship designer window? I downloaded some ships off of steam, but they have so many sections that they get pushed off and I can't click on the individual part slots. It seems like it'd be very simple to mod in, but I haven't found anything like that on the workshop.
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# ? May 29, 2017 21:42 |
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Captain Oblivious posted:My understanding is that the way it currently works is that two species will grow two pops in basically the same time frame as one species would grow two. Do you think that, as an incentive to not enslave the galaxy, one might consider specifically increasing it to some middle ground between the broken ideal (two species produce one pop each effectively doubling growth) and the current system, specifically for civs that are extending equal rights to both populations? Slavers would keep the functionally identical pop growth rate, xenophiles get an effective boost by maintaining parity between the races at the trade off of consumer goods. I mean that would make xenophile actually do something, instead of the nothing it does now. Taear posted:They do only move from full planets. The only real "issue" with migration now is a deliberate one, which is that only one pop can be migrating to a planet at any one time. My specific problem was that no amount of migration attraction bonus seemed to incentivize pops to move in from a different empire, rather than moving within their own empire. Perhaps it should only let one pop of a single species move in at a time?
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# ? May 30, 2017 08:58 |
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I opened a vault on a tomb world and it was full of mutants that started to purge the local pops before i could get an army there, but the purge didn't stop when I wiped the mutants out either so now there's nothing but droids on this lovely bombed out husk. Funnily enough the 'brave new world' edict isn't attracting anyone either so I guess that world is now droids only. Edit: apart from that I've had no problem attracting migrants from other empires. All I've needed to do is colonise a planet of their preferred type and a load of weird bug men turned up right away. Powerful Two-Hander fucked around with this message at 09:19 on May 30, 2017 |
# ? May 30, 2017 09:15 |
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Would you want to move to a nuclear wasteland after hearing that the first wave of colonists were torn apart by mutant monstrosities?
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# ? May 30, 2017 09:19 |
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Also why do some empires refuse to join my federation with reason '-1000 dislike' when they have +150 opinion and actively like me? I'm a stupid democratic pacifist so adding people to my federation is about all I can do.
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# ? May 30, 2017 09:21 |
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Spanish Matlock posted:My specific problem was that no amount of migration attraction bonus seemed to incentivize pops to move in from a different empire, rather than moving within their own empire. Perhaps it should only let one pop of a single species move in at a time? It was like that before but now I get loads of aliens from other species, since the new patch.
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# ? May 30, 2017 09:27 |
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:Also why do some empires refuse to join my federation with reason '-1000 dislike' when they have +150 opinion and actively like me? I'm a stupid democratic pacifist so adding people to my federation is about all I can do. If you're hovering over the "-1000" number in the trade deal window it should give you a tool tip telling you exactly why the assholes are being stupid.
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# ? May 30, 2017 09:27 |
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Generally it's because they don't like one of your existing members, either because of ethos or because they're far away. You can overcome this partly through giving them associate membership, but if they're too far away you'll need to rely on one of your closer members to ask them. Distance for this ask should be calculated from the edge of the Federation, not your borders, but hey.
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# ? May 30, 2017 09:37 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 11:29 |
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Aethernet posted:Generally it's because they don't like one of your existing members, either because of ethos or because they're far away. You can overcome this partly through giving them associate membership, but if they're too far away you'll need to rely on one of your closer members to ask them. Distance for this ask should be calculated from the edge of the Federation, not your borders, but hey. There are definitely some bugs with it right now. I've had "hates [my civilization] -1000" for a place that has +150 relationship with me. Which is what the person you're both replying to is talking about.
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# ? May 30, 2017 09:44 |