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If anyone here is concerned about losing their rights as a European citizen, and believes that a system of 'elective' EU citizenship, where one can presumably pay to retain ones rights, then I would ask you to take a look at this EU Parliament petition: https://www.eucitizen2017.org/ If the arguments put forth by the website appeal to you, then please think about signing the petition by following the link on the site's home page. Also, I know that my next question is probably a long shot, but is anyone here familiar with the criteria that one must meet to become a citizen of Poland? Is it sufficient to have a Polish grandparent, or are there other conditions that need to be met? Lord_Adonis fucked around with this message at 11:27 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 11:17
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Darth Walrus posted:A good sample size is generally considered to be a thousand people. Five hundred for a small section of the population like British Jews could be better, but isn't all that bad. I never said a sample size of 500 was "bad", I just said it meant that there isn't a statistically significant shift in the Labour support according to the 2015 and 2017 results. And that's assuming: MrL_JaKiri posted:If you have a completely random sample Which I think is a dubious assumption. Pollsters find it incredibly hard to correctly weight their polls for the UK national population despite having reams of demographic data and past polls and elections to base it on. The main takeaway people should have here is that the binomial confidence intervals are the perfect case scenario in terms of accuracy and in practice underestimate the real margin of error.
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May 30, 2017 11:20
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sebzilla posted:How many streamed it? 
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May 30, 2017 11:21
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Obviously he should have the figures to hand, because after Abbott's misspeak, Labour are going to get torn apart on it (Even though the Tory manifesto is completely uncosted) but if he doesn't have the figrues to hand, then advisnig he's looking to provide the accurate ones in a moment is the correct action. I'd much rather someone say "I don't have it memorised, and I don't want to quote the wrong number, so bear with me till I confirm the figure"
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May 30, 2017 11:24
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I mean, it's still better than the Conservative approach which is to just not bother with figures for anything and say they'll work it out later. e: also that^^^
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May 30, 2017 11:25
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golders green is where many eastern european jews fleeing soviet persecution wound up surprise surprise they are not fans of leftism, even when Harold Wilson was PM and british jews generally voted labour
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May 30, 2017 11:25
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Unelectable Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to give misleading figures, what a disgrace unlike Theresa "No-one can promise if it will go up or down in real terms" May.
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May 30, 2017 11:25
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Good lord, today's Guardian main online feature article is disgusting. "Jeremy Corbyn unable to put figure on free childcare policy". Really, Guardian? Really?
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May 30, 2017 11:25
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sebzilla posted:How many streamed it? Not that it's particularly relevant to this specific post, but I really cannot stand the modern trend in interviewing that's essentially a loving gameshow in which the politicians have to do maths really quickly or test their memory or else they look like a wanker. It's a lazy and uninformative interviewing technique, and it does nothing constructive, but it's funny because look at these arseholes who can't count properly. It contributes to an utterly unrealistic conception of what politicans are and how party policy is both decided upon and implemented. It also contrbutes to this weird and unhealthy disconnect we have between the realtiy of government (ultimately consensus-driven, despite the authority of any particular PM) and the public perception of our governments, which is increasingly Presidential - the leader (or whoever) did a sum wrong on the telly, these loving idiots can't be trusted because that's the person who's literally writing and executing all the laws personally! This is a problem for all politicians - Tories get it as much as Labour, and it's dogshit then, too.
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May 30, 2017 11:27
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Pochoclo posted:Good lord, today's Guardian main online feature article is disgusting. "Jeremy Corbyn unable to put figure on free childcare policy". I was just going to post this, they're hilariously determined to not help ARE JEZZA. It's gonna suck when the tories increase their majority and every paper as far as the eye can see laments that Labour would have won under Owen Smith.
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May 30, 2017 11:27
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Also, the sample size was 515 so this isn't even a statistically significant shift. I'd also question how easy it really is to get a "representative sample" of such a niche group that accounts for under 0.005% of the UK population. It seems to me that most of the attempts to smear Labour as antisemitic are targeted at middle class white people and not British Jews. You're right but by my calcs if it was 13.4% it would be a significant change. MrL_JaKiri posted:If you have a completely random sample ^provided this is true. https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/869452084567060480
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May 30, 2017 11:28
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THE DIMBLELORD has weighed in on Corbyn: “I don’t think anyone could say that Corbyn has had a fair deal at the hands of the press, in a way that the Labour party did when it was more to the centre, but then we generally have a rightwing press.”.
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May 30, 2017 11:28
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Pochoclo posted:Good lord, today's Guardian main online feature article is disgusting. "Jeremy Corbyn unable to put figure on free childcare policy". The Guardian are just crying over the #LibDemFightback being a complete failure.
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May 30, 2017 11:29
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ronya posted:british chinese outnumber british jews by nearly 2:1
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May 30, 2017 11:30
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Zephro posted:And are almost never written about, for whatever reason. The Chinese takeaway down my way when I was little did such good chips that they put the chippy two doors down out of business. Immigration has gone too far! 
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May 30, 2017 11:32
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Out of interest Miftan what do the people you chat to in Israel think about the orange clown man in the white house? And particularly about him mouthfarting about that Israeli intelligence he leaked like a chump in front of Bibi's horrified face?
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May 30, 2017 11:33
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Someone from the audience did shout at May that Labour's policies were fully costed during last night's 'debate'. As bad as the Tories have been at giving figures it's a bit of a double take to forgive your own guy for doing the same thing. It's not a lot to ask of any prospective prime minister to know the figures on key bits of their policies. I don't think "It's okay, the Tories do it all the time!" is a particularly attractive hill to die on in defense of Corbyn.
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May 30, 2017 11:34
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Rakosi posted:Someone from the audience did shout at May that Labour's policies were fully costed during last night's 'debate'. As bad as the Tories have been at giving figures it's a bit of a double take to forgive your own guy for doing the same thing. It's not a lot to ask of any prospective prime minister to know the figures on key bits of their policies. Eh, not remembering the figures but having them (literally) to hand if you forget is a significant improvement over simply pulling them out of the ether.
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May 30, 2017 11:36
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Tesseraction posted:And particularly about him mouthfarting about that Israeli intelligence he leaked like a chump in front of Bibi's horrified face?
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May 30, 2017 11:37
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Zephro posted:And are almost never written about, for whatever reason. in terms of raw numbers irish migrants to england easily roll all over the others, even the great big muslim south asian demograpic clump they don't organise politically as such british chinese tend not to run as councillors or participate much either
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May 30, 2017 11:39
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Is it just me or, whenever a Brexit question is asked of any politician, they reply with reheated platitudes and soundbites? Why is Brexit not discussed in more concrete terms in the Tory or Labour manifestos? Where are the anticipated costings for the expansion of the Department for Brexit, or the hundreds of lawyers, consultants and negotiators that will need to be hired? Where are the policies for protecting the UK, should it crash out of the EU without a deal- how much money is to be allocated to protecting vital sectors of the economy and public services should that happen? Where are the plans to mitigate the effects of citizens of the EU 27 leaving their jobs in Britain? How about plans to ensure that HGVs don't stack up on our side of the Channel Tunnel, should crashing out immediately throw up barriers to trade? It is all very well to hope for success with a tepid slogan like 'red, white and blue brexit'- but it is smarter to plan for failure, which if the rhetoric from May and Davis is accurate, seems likely.
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May 30, 2017 11:39
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Oberleutnant posted:The Chinese takeaway down my way when I was little did such good chips that they put the chippy two doors down out of business. Immigration has gone too far! chinese takeaway chips are so good. for some reason, what passed for a chinese in my family was rice, chips and curry sauce. heaven, though.
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May 30, 2017 11:40
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Darth Walrus posted:Eh, not remembering the figures but having them (literally) to hand if you forget is a significant improvement over simply pulling them out of the ether. Heck, quickly Googling up some figures is something I do when making arguments all the time. I'd far rather do that and give someone a good argument backed with accurate information, than make up a number, or say something limp like, "Well, I don't have the figures here" when it would be ten seconds work to get them.
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May 30, 2017 11:40
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Tesseraction posted:Out of interest Miftan what do the people you chat to in Israel think about the orange clown man in the white house? And particularly about him mouthfarting about that Israeli intelligence he leaked like a chump in front of Bibi's horrified face? I haven't heard specific blowback over it, nothing that lasted more than 1 news cycle anyway. People are generally either very happy with him because he's a racist butt clown, or absolutely horrified. I'd imagine mostly happy since Israel is more right wing than the UK. if anything, israel will be pissed as hell at the uk trying to steal their 51st state title. I think the government might be a bit more worried behind closed doors, but they can't say or do anything that'll jeopardise US support, especially with how volatile trump is and some of his opinions shifting towards giving the Palestinians a state and all that sort of stuff he's said during his tour in the area. Take this all with a grain of salt as I'm not that well versed in the Israeli right anymore, only got 1 contact there.
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May 30, 2017 11:41
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ronya posted:in terms of raw numbers irish migrants to england easily roll all over the others, even the great big muslim south asian demograpic clump I suppose it is partly due to the degree of assimilation and mixing that those Irish immigrants and their descendants engaged in- I am an example of this as my maternal great-grandparents were both Irish.
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May 30, 2017 11:42
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Rakosi posted:Someone from the audience did shout at May that Labour's policies were fully costed during last night's 'debate'. As bad as the Tories have been at giving figures it's a bit of a double take to forgive your own guy for doing the same thing. It's not a lot to ask of any prospective prime minister to know the figures on key bits of their policies. They're two separate issues, stop being disingenuous. Corbyn couldn't remember policy numbers off the top of his head that were costed, the Tories just didn't bother costing a load of stuff at all. Lord_Adonis posted:Is it just me or, whenever a Brexit question is asked of any politician, they reply with reheated platitudes and soundbites? Why is Brexit not discussed in more concrete terms in the Tory or Labour manifestos? Where are the anticipated costings for the expansion of the Department for Brexit, or the hundreds of lawyers, consultants and negotiators that will need to be hired? Where are the policies for protecting the UK, should it crash out of the EU without a deal- how much money is to be allocated to protecting vital sectors of the economy and public services should that happen? Where are the plans to mitigate the effects of citizens of the EU 27 leaving their jobs in Britain? How about plans to ensure that HGVs don't stack up on our side of the Channel Tunnel, should crashing out immediately throw up barriers to trade? It is all very well to hope for success with a tepid slogan like 'red, white and blue brexit'- but it is smarter to plan for failure, which if the rhetoric from May and Davis is accurate, seems likely. Because the whole Tory Brexit coalition is based on the fact that May and Britain and going to dictate terms to Europe, because BRITANE STRONG. May cannot show an ounce of weakness in this regard or her coalition will loving eviscerate her, even as she is driving the country off a cliff.
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May 30, 2017 11:44
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meanwhile in america https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869503804307275776
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May 30, 2017 11:44
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Jose posted:meanwhile in america
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May 30, 2017 11:47
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Rakosi posted:Someone from the audience did shout at May that Labour's policies were fully costed during last night's 'debate'. As bad as the Tories have been at giving figures it's a bit of a double take to forgive your own guy for doing the same thing. It's not a lot to ask of any prospective prime minister to know the figures on key bits of their policies. As a consequence of Brexit, I doubt that the policies of either the Tories or Labour could be said to be fully costed. If we crash out without a deal, the pound tanks, trade deficit widens, inflation rises and national credit rating falls, any spending plans that existed prior to this will be thrown out of the window as the government rededicates its funds to just barely keep afloat. I doubt that even Corbyn, with the best will in the world, could stick to Labour's spending pledges in this event.
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May 30, 2017 11:47
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Lovechop posted:chinese takeaway chips are so good. for some reason, what passed for a chinese in my family was rice, chips and curry sauce. heaven, though. Salt and pepper chips are the absolute truth.
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May 30, 2017 11:48
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MikeCrotch posted:
That is certainly part of it, but Labour seem to be as evasive about these Brexit issues as the Tories (Without the antagonistic rhetoric of course).
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May 30, 2017 11:49
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Rakosi posted:Someone from the audience did shout at May that Labour's policies were fully costed during last night's 'debate'. As bad as the Tories have been at giving figures it's a bit of a double take to forgive your own guy for doing the same thing. It's not a lot to ask of any prospective prime minister to know the figures on key bits of their policies. There is a difference between forgetting figures that have been drawn up and not knowing the figures because they don't exist.
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May 30, 2017 11:51
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Lord_Adonis posted:That is certainly part of it, but Labour seem to be as evasive about these Brexit issues as the Tories (Without the antagonistic rhetoric of course). Because there's literally no good way of ensuring these things and attempting to explain that would be essentially arguing against Brexit, which would be incredibly unpopular. Labour aren't going to jump on that landmine voluntarily.
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May 30, 2017 11:52
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Lol someone counted the times Paxman interrupted Corbyn vs the time he interrupted May. https://twitter.com/brucemicklewri1/status/869298036341604353
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May 30, 2017 11:52
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Chinese communities in Britain seeeeeeeeem to conform to all the stereotypes of non-integration and non-assimilation that the right vomits at Middle Eastern and South Asian communities in this country, and it's weird because nobody cares or feels threatened by the existence of entire chinatowns with dual-language street signage, and non-english storefronts, and entire streets full of people who aren't white or speaking english. It's not a big deal at all, although I bet in the 70s ad 80s skinheads were throwing a loving fit about it. Nowadas it's cool af to have a little slice of a foreign culture right there on your doorstep where you can try new and different foods and just experience something that isn't quite the same monotonous, grey monoculture.
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May 30, 2017 11:55
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Oberleutnant posted:Not that it's particularly relevant to this specific post, but I really cannot stand the modern trend in interviewing that's essentially a loving gameshow in which the politicians have to do maths really quickly or test their memory or else they look like a wanker. It's a lazy and uninformative interviewing technique, and it does nothing constructive, but it's funny because look at these arseholes who can't count properly.
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May 30, 2017 11:57
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Oberleutnant posted:It's not a big deal at all, although I bet in the 70s ad 80s skinheads were throwing a loving fit about it.
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May 30, 2017 12:01
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josh04 posted:Because there's literally no good way of ensuring these things and attempting to explain that would be essentially arguing against Brexit, which would be incredibly unpopular. Labour aren't going to jump on that landmine voluntarily. If one were arguing against the Brexit project as a whole, then I would agree that this would be unpopular. However, surely the voting public would see the value in Labour being prepared to plan for the worst case in detail, whilst otherwise maintaining the rhetoric that hopes for Brexit to be a success. Surely the voting public can see the difference between criticising and obstructing Brexit in principle, and criticism of some of the details of the practical implementation of Brexit, with plans drawn up on the basis of those criticisms? I doubt that many of the public want to see the UK crash out of the EU without a deal and suffer the economic consequences? As such, I would have thought that some contingency planning for this event would have gone down well with voters? However, if it is the case that this sort of thing cannot be discussed for reasons of Public Relations and Electoral Politics, then the British voting public really are in trouble. In that case, I guess that the best we can hope for is that some Civil Servants have taken it upon themselves to draw up tentative plans that could be actioned by a Minister in the event of a Brexit crisis.
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May 30, 2017 12:04
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Lord_Adonis posted:If one were arguing against the Brexit project as a whole, then I would agree that this would be unpopular. However, surely the voting public would see the value in Labour being prepared to plan for the worst case in detail, whilst otherwise maintaining the rhetoric that hopes for Brexit to be a success. Surely the voting public can see the difference between criticising and obstructing Brexit in principle, and criticism of some of the details of the practical implementation of Brexit, with plans drawn up on the basis of those criticisms? I doubt that many of the public want to see the UK crash out of the EU without a deal and suffer the economic consequences? As such, I would have thought that some contingency planning for this event would have gone down well with voters? However, if it is the case that this sort of thing cannot be discussed for reasons of Public Relations and Electoral Politics, then the British voting public really are in trouble. In that case, I guess that the best we can hope for is that some Civil Servants have taken it upon themselves to draw up tentative plans that could be actioned by a Minister in the event of a Brexit crisis. The only cheers the Prime Minister managed on last nights debate was by repeating "No deal is better than a bad deal" over and over. I don't share your confidence that a party leader discussing how Brexit could, in theory, be bad, would ever be taken well by hat portion of the populace.
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May 30, 2017 12:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll4-Ihafp3w
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