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Pretty sure the thing with GKs is that they're going to quasi-revert to their Codex: Daemonhunters incarnation where instead of hammerhand being a psychic power they just hit at S6 normally except now they all have force weapons. Edit: likewise eldar Warlocks only became proper psykers pretty recently. Der Waffle Mous fucked around with this message at 06:10 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 06:00
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:It's unnecessarily obtuse. You will be flipping across pages anyway unless you've memorized every data sheet, and having it all on each sheet also provides more granular control for GW to balance things. For example if a B3 and a B4 model both use a weapon then that weapon being worth 1 point less improves the value of the BS4 model more than the BS3. I agree that weapons should be priced depending on the model using them; this is something they could amend later by releasing updated points lists that have per-unit item costs. The problem with having points on the datasheets is that it becomes a conflicting source of truth; when the points are eventually updated in the Warmaster's Handbook or whatever, then what's on the datasheet is worthless and you'll be looking at a separate points list anyway. Zaphod42 posted:First, why do things with no wargear options not have the points included? Needless busywork that you could literally add up and then write on the datasheet in marker. So why isn't it already printed that way? Consistency would be my guess, and - in case you're using the Bumblemarine as an example - I'd assume because the Starter Kit Datasheets are probably cut down versions of their non-starter counterparts which do have weapon options. Texmo fucked around with this message at 06:04 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 06:01
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Texmo posted:I agree that weapons should be priced depending on the model using them; this is something they could amend later by releasing updated points lists that have per-unit item costs. I agree, and presumed my assumption on GW digitally updating the data sheets in a timely manner. This, of course, is the pinnacle of wishful thinking.
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May 30, 2017 06:03
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Texmo posted:I agree that weapons should be priced depending on the model using them; this is something they could amend later by releasing updated points lists that have per-unit item costs. They do actually sort of have that in a few cases. A storm shield costs 15 on a character, but only 5 on other models.
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May 30, 2017 06:03
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For the first time in around four years I finished a model. I grabbed my second Battlewagon and finally painted up the details and wheels. Album!      Feels good.
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May 30, 2017 06:13
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If they have a decent army builder app then this will not be a problem, but I doubt they will.
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May 30, 2017 06:23
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S.J. posted:These 40k rumors sound awesome enough to convince me to buy some Infinity models.
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May 30, 2017 06:29
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Ilor posted:Doooo eeeet! Already done. CB's doing a big sale on some bundles for each faction for their new online worldwide campaign they're doing 
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May 30, 2017 06:33
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S.J. posted:Already done. CB's doing a big sale on some bundles for each faction for their new online worldwide campaign they're doing Are Infinity models still all pewter models with meh sculpts? I bought one of the starter sets where you get two armies hoping I would like one, could barely bring myself to glue them together. The rules were fun, just wish the models were at the very least resin so you could mess with them.
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May 30, 2017 06:41
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Lord Twisted posted:If they have a decent army builder app then this will not be a problem, but I doubt they will. The legions of nerds will have battle scribe fully uploaded in a day. Hell the army builder website already has all the known 8th ed stuff.
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May 30, 2017 06:44
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Are Infinity models still all pewter models with meh sculpts? I bought one of the starter sets where you get two armies hoping I would like one, could barely bring myself to glue them together. The rules were fun, just wish the models were at the very least resin so you could mess with them. They haven't had any derpy models for a long time. Even back when there were, there weren't many. Here's a few random examples. They're all pewter, yes.    
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May 30, 2017 06:55
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Praise FW for saving us from this. Come play Horus Heresy, m'manchild.
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May 30, 2017 07:05
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that poor zouave has to bring that rock wherever he goes  :The formatting is giving me some 3e flashbacks, too.  noting even that huge mess gives different points for ICs. edit: Is this  if its a book that's been obsolete for 15 years?
Der Waffle Mous fucked around with this message at 07:12 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 07:09
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Der Waffle Mous posted:that poor zouave has to bring that rock wherever he goes That's the reason I've been shrugging my shoulders, and wondering what all the fuss is about regarding points. Last time I played was 3rd edition
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May 30, 2017 07:17
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Der Waffle Mous posted:edit: Is this A single page shot should be fine, if people sharing leaked scans of 8th are okay lol
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May 30, 2017 07:18
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S.J. posted:They haven't had any derpy models for a long time. Even back when there were, there weren't many. Here's a few random examples. They're all pewter, yes. Infinity models are gorgeous (best in the business imo), and I'd love to see CB expand into a fantasy skirmish style game. Something like a modern version of Rackham's old Confrontation (with the same low quality translation!). The new point system seems a little silly, but I'm a dumb idiot butt who's already bought into the hype; I'm still excited.
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May 30, 2017 07:21
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Likewise the idea of giving the points value for the minimum legal unit size wasn't a thing until... well into 4th edition I think? Like a tac squad was 15 points per model, and consisted of a "one space marine sergeant and between four and nine space marines." Then came the standardized costs with the Dark Angels and 5e Marine Codexes with the added wrinkle of most squads being available ONLY as a squad of 5 or as a squad of 10.
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May 30, 2017 07:35
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Der Waffle Mous posted:edit: Is this AFAIK the mods don't really give a poo poo if it's something you can't buy anymore. Really as long as you're not uploading high quality scans of entire current books nobody is gonna care.
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May 30, 2017 07:50
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Seems like GW really just wants people to use the simple BP system. Like they want what people normally use as points so inconvenient they use BP instead. They won't. Also yeah got to make hams spend extra for points to play how we have for how many years instead of releasing points in "free" sheets. Having an app doesn't excuse a poo poo layout. If they have it ready. I kind of get limiting psyker powers if everyone shares smite but then gets their own thing an make players do something else rather than cast doom for example repeatedly till it just finally works. I was hoping for some choice in chaos land raider. Like anything over just the same one now without an option of character plus terminators in it. Pretty disappointing but whatever its still better. I thought the goal was stream line things not add d6 or d3 rolls to a simple thing like obliterator shoots gun so roll str then ap then hit then wound then maybe armor or invul saves. Now do this per obliterator since each could be a different result. Would be nice if maybe they could just pick a gun from a list especially since just about every gun just went through an overhaul. Those are some honest complaints I have just looking at the leaks. Or maybe I'm just dumb an get told I'm bad at posting/not allowed too rather than actually discuss anything. They were so close. So very close. I'd like this to be the game I always wanted. Not looking good. Also if events are just going to disregard limits an rules in the rule book why even bother? Every event then becomes a list of what they specifically allow or do not.
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May 30, 2017 07:57
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I played Rogue Trader where all equipment was decided by D100 rolls so I'm not phased by flipping between a couple of pages to pick out the points values. Wait three weeks then decide if the sky has actually fallen. Points wise it looks like an 1850 army will be a 2000 point army in the new system, and a lot of the big stuff has got more expensive. But I'm waiting to see what happpens. As the Forgeworld Indices books are £15 I'll definitely be picking those up.
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May 30, 2017 08:26
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oh snap, random thoughts on 8th: In 8th edition, the base cost of a broadside is 183pts. Is that what they cost now? That seems like a whole bunch of points. Chaos Land Raiders used to cost 1 Ahriman (225pts). Now they cost three Ahrimans! That's a lot of Ahrimans! I hope he's better this edition =( Chaos Terminators seem fine? They went up by ~6 pts, but now they have two wounds, the new no scatter deep strike, twice the bolter shots, and [arguably] better close combat weapons. Otoh, 5 terminators w/ combi-meltas went from 36 pts/model, to 55 pts/model. Is always on combi worth the weapons increasing by 2x (for combi flamers), 3x (for combi plasma), or 4x (for combi meltas)? Maybe? Probably? I don't see a melee weapon listed for Tycho. Did the death company call dibs on all the good cc weapons? 1 power = 20 points seems to be an accurate rule of thumb (+/- 10 pts). Using power to create a list seems a lot faster than points. I'm playing with friends and using power + wysiwyg; it'll probably work out just fine (hail satan). I want to know what teleport homers do! Since deep strike doesn't scatter anymore, maybe they let you land closer than 9 inches? Your Best American Girl by Mitski is a really great track. Highly recommended.
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May 30, 2017 08:46
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How can you have opinions on changes in points values, when you don't know how effective stuff is under the new rules? Have we seriously used two pages complaining about three extra dice rolls for a single, rare model in a single army? I get that the presentation and formatting of the points is not good, but Jesus Christ people.
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May 30, 2017 08:55
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Nerf biglys GW.
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May 30, 2017 08:57
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Have any games in 8th even been run yet? Some of the recent reveals seem iffy but it's probably best to see the whole ruleset actually in action before passing judgement. The points formatting does seem awkward but I'm hoping that it's just the price to pay for somewhat regular balance updates, and though it doesn't excuse it, 3rd party apps will take the annoyance out of army building hopefully! It's cool and good to be optimistic about things 
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May 30, 2017 09:04
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The last edition I played was 2nd. All this poo poo is weird and new to me. Plus, points values increasing means it'll be more towards the platoon-scale game I always felt like it was supposed to be, so I'm pretty pleased.
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May 30, 2017 09:07
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Necron summary pages, although they're all in Italian
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May 30, 2017 09:08
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Tiger Millionaire posted:Have any games in 8th even been run yet? Some of the recent reveals seem iffy but it's probably best to see the whole ruleset actually in action before passing judgement. Only people who have very likely been NDA'd. Its not out yet.
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May 30, 2017 09:20
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Sisters also got leaked http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2017/05/sisters-of-battle-leaks.html?m=0 Sad they got rid of the Sororitas Command Squad, lotta good customization lost there. Also only 1 Act Of Faith on a 2+ per turn unless you have a ton of Imagifiers kinda blows.
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May 30, 2017 09:23
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xtothez posted:Necron summary pages, although they're all in Italian Huh, C'tan shard appears to have psyker like abilities that have no warp charge requirement, but their own specific rolls. That's kinda fun, and flavorful for the Necrons. Anybody speak good enough  to figure out what Reanimation Protocols does in 8th? Or I should say, Globo della Ressurecione ? E: Er, Protocoli di Rianimazione?Cainer posted:Sisters also got leaked http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2017/05/sisters-of-battle-leaks.html?m=0 Honestly its amazing that Sisters are getting rules updates right along with everybody else, at the release. GW hasn't completely forgotten about them yet. Only 1 act of faith is lame agreed, but the acts of faith themselves are cool and flavorful. This isn't all the pages. It would make sense that Sisters would have a command point thingy that lets you use another act of faith. And you don't need a ton of imagifiers, 4+ means a 50/50 chance every turn for each Imagifier of getting another act, although you have to keep them within 6" yeah fair. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 09:33 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 09:24
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Wow, amazing amount of losing the plot about the improved points system in the last pages. Now all you need to do is look at the model to determine its point cost, you take the normal point cost and add the points of all the stuff the model has. And it is all written on one page. Easy. Before, you had to look up the unite entry, which had basic wargear included, sometimes it could be swapped out but sometimes it could not, sometimes weapons cost had to be added, sometimes they did not. Then, if you wanted extra wargear (as opposed to included wargear, though there is no difference on the actual model), you had to switch to the wargear part of the book to look up those points. All in all, calculating point costs is actually easier in the new system, since you only have to use 1 part of the rules and everything as a point cost, even if that cost is 0. This will make balancing easier too, since no unit will have free stuff included. Free stuff is always what will mess balance up. This is also the reason for the "rules of 1" that come over from AoS by the way. GW knows that players will find the "optimal" psychic power or stratagem and then just spam in a way that is broken, this way no matter how cool 1 power or stratagem is, it will never break the game. Good for balance, and good for variety in game play and list design.
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May 30, 2017 09:40
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Skyweir posted:This is also the reason for the "rules of 1" that come over from AoS by the way. GW knows that players will find the "optimal" psychic power or stratagem and then just spam in a way that is broken, this way no matter how cool 1 power or stratagem is, it will never break the game. It's also a nice quiet gently caress you to Formations as they were in 7th. If Stratagem spam isn't a thing, then there's not a unwavering necessity to fill out the 'best' detachments as far as CP numbers go in every list that hits the table.
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May 30, 2017 09:46
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RE: Units not being in Indexices (Blood Angel Centurions, etc.) - Just like when we went from 2nd to 3rd, don't expect any changes at this stage from the previous Codex. These army lists wlll be 'translations' from 7th, and we should expect the toys to be added when the actual Codex turns up. The only exception is all the Primaris tech, and that's to ensure everyone can play with the new hotness Day 1.
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May 30, 2017 09:53
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One hostage will die for every hour that the Imperial Guard rules are not leaked.
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May 30, 2017 10:04
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Shockeh posted:RE: Units not being in Indexices (Blood Angel Centurions, etc.) - Just like when we went from 2nd to 3rd, don't expect any changes at this stage from the previous Codex. These army lists wlll be 'translations' from 7th, and we should expect the toys to be added when the actual Codex turns up. Has it actually been confirmed that BA don't have centurions and so on? As I understood it the index was "all Space Marines including Chapters" and it could easily be the case that the BA one is just for the extra stuff that vanilla SMs don't have. Maybe I read it wrong I only glanced at it for two seconds.
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May 30, 2017 10:45
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Corrode posted:Has it actually been confirmed that BA don't have centurions and so on? As I understood it the index was "all Space Marines including Chapters" and it could easily be the case that the BA one is just for the extra stuff that vanilla SMs don't have. Maybe I read it wrong I only glanced at it for two seconds. Yeah - there's a specific list of which SM units BA detachments can take http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334013-full-leaked-blood-angels-rules-other-space-marine-prices/
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May 30, 2017 10:50
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Skyweir posted:Now all you need to do is look at the model to determine its point cost, you take the normal point cost and add the points of all the stuff the model has. And it is all written on one page. It's how I'm reading it too. Like, yes, it's a lot of successive additions to get to the total cost of any given model, but, importantly, it's only ever additions. You don't have to substract the cost of the piece of the basic wargear you're swapping out first, which is actually more intuitive. We can debate page layouts, for sure, but directly putting a cost on every individual thing on a model makes things a lot cleaner.
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May 30, 2017 11:22
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my kinda ape posted:One
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May 30, 2017 11:24
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If during the list building phase, your opponent divides by three and hops on one leg...
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May 30, 2017 11:28
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ElNarez posted:It's how I'm reading it too. Like, yes, it's a lot of successive additions to get to the total cost of any given model, but, importantly, it's only ever additions. You don't have to substract the cost of the piece of the basic wargear you're swapping out first, which is actually more intuitive. We can debate page layouts, for sure, but directly putting a cost on every individual thing on a model makes things a lot cleaner. Have we seen costs that vary by models? I'm concerned that they are back to a ranged weapon being +X points regardless of the model having BS 2, 3 or 4.
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May 30, 2017 11:44
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A guardsman per hour is way, way better than what they usually get.
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May 30, 2017 12:18
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