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Radish posted:Yeah if the Democrats decide to not bust the filibuster and allow more Republican obstruction they will be crushed the next election. It's become clear that almost no one on either side outside of politicians and pundits give a rats rear end about political rules or decorum. It's about results and "well we couldn't do anything because of a Senate rule (that we could have changed if we wanted to)" didn't fly before and it won't fly again. Nuking the filibuster will be a headline for a day before people forget it ever mattered. But decorum and political capital are important! For example, Republicans lost the popular vote and the Supreme Court vacancy happened when it was *our turn* therefore by the rules of decorum they would never have the capital to blah blah blah
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May 30, 2017 15:33
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RuanGacho posted:As terrible as cops can be, I'm pretty sure theyre not going to be ok with active militia groups causing their jurisdictions to call 911 constantly because Ya'llQueda is wandering the streets. American police officers: A calm, peaceful group, known for being against violence, terrified civilians, and far-right politics.
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May 30, 2017 15:34
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There Bias Two posted:I wouldn't be surprised if there were cops who joined them while off-duty. That is probably a greater concern yes. I'd like to think that blue states are "protect the children" enough that it wont fly though. Easy Salmon Recipe posted:American police officers: A calm, peaceful group, known for being against violence, terrified civilians, and far-right politics. I'm not going to put myself in the position of defending the indefensible just because i believe in peaceful order, again. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 15:38 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 15:36
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Starting to think we really are finished and saying so isn't just a coping mechanism so we don't have to try to put in the hard work of fixing things
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May 30, 2017 15:36
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Lightning Lord posted:Hot take: what if there isn't a 2020 election? We were so worried last year about how Trump would accept his inevitable loss in 2016. Imagine how he'd react to being voted out once he's already in power 
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May 30, 2017 15:36
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Oath Keepers are literally police.
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May 30, 2017 15:37
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Lightning Lord posted:Hot take: what if there isn't a 2020 election? Then the cold civil war we're in right now would get hot.
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May 30, 2017 15:39
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Lightning Lord posted:Starting to think we really are finished and saying so isn't just a coping mechanism so we don't have to try to put in the hard work of fixing things Actually, the work is going to be harder, because we have to deal with rebuilding and denazifying the country once the fighting is done.
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May 30, 2017 15:39
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Lightning Lord posted:Hot take: what if there isn't a 2020 election? Civil War. No President has ever even brought up the idea of suspending elections. Even in WW 1 & 2 when arguably a change of power could be disruptive enough to cause trouble with the war effort. Even in early US history when the institutional momentum was non-existant and Washington was ransacked and the White House was burned in the War of 1812, we still had the loving election on time, and to the best of our ability. I don't think the GOP would try to suspend elections. It wouldn't be political suicide, it would be literal suicide. And I don't think the US is going to collapse so fast and so hard as to be effectively non-existent in the next 3 years.
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May 30, 2017 15:39
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VitalSigns posted:But decorum and political capital are important! I'd like to think even centrists are getting a little tired of the sort of decorum over results attitude that the Democrats have been displaying for almost two decades. It's one thing if you don't like leftist policies but it's another when your party is a bunch of losers locked entirely out of government. There might not be a lot of camaraderie on what rights are important but I think everyone is done with treating Republicans like faithful negotiators and not traitors; any politician pushing that view is going to become unpopular in a hurry.
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May 30, 2017 15:39
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Crain posted:Civil War.
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May 30, 2017 15:46
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Lightning Lord posted:Hot take: what if there isn't a 2020 election? Jesus yall, did no one live through the early 00's? We had these same exact conversations about Bush Jr. The suspension of elections, the slow downturn into dementia (heres a YouTube video of campaign speeches vs Press conferences where he says Uh a whole lot and has a bunch of brainfarts, clearly mental health issues). Trump is a big dumb dumb who will lead an ineffectual Presidency until he gets replaced in 2020
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May 30, 2017 15:47
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Crain posted:Civil War. 1) The GOP is, collectively, insane. They think that their actions, even if they result in massive death, will be justified in their imaginary afterlife. 2) They're girding up by reaching out to militia groups. Even if they aren't used for security in the short-term, in the long term, those groups have just been legitimized by the GOP, and they'll remember that, as resistance to GOP rule increases. And it WILL increase.
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May 30, 2017 15:48
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Crain posted:
It's not going to collapse. It already has on the inside. Our institutions have rotted from the inside out, and we're finally seeing it emerge on the surface. We're very, very close to irreversibility at this point.
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May 30, 2017 15:48
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Crain posted:I don't think the GOP would try to suspend elections. There is literally no Constitutional ability to suspend federal elections. Not only won't they do it, they can't do it. And if they tried, there would be 50 pissed-as-loving-hell state governments calling for who knows what -- secession, an Article V Convention, whatever.
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May 30, 2017 15:48
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Drone posted:There is literally no Constitutional ability to suspend federal elections. Not only won't they do it, they can't do it. And if they tried, there would be 50 pissed-as-loving-hell state governments calling for who knows what -- secession, an Article V Convention, whatever. But they're already ignoring the Constitution and no action has been taken. Why would that be any different?
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May 30, 2017 15:49
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BRISTOL PALINS BABY posted:We were so worried last year about how Trump would accept his inevitable loss in 2016. Imagine how he'd react to being voted out once he's already in power
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May 30, 2017 15:50
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There Bias Two posted:But they're already ignoring the Constitution and no action has been taken. Why would that be any different? What are they ignoring?
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May 30, 2017 15:50
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JazzFlight posted:He's not going to suspend elections, but based on how much illegal garbage he and the Republicans were doing to undermine fair elections last year, it'd guaranteed he'll do everything in his power to destroy whoever comes after him. If we thought the propaganda against Clinton was bad, just wait until "INSERT DEM CANDIDATE HERE" gets labeled the next spawn of Satan and voting locations are dropped to 1 per county. Trump's too much of a coward to suspend elections, and as awful as the people around him are, I'm pretty sure they know how suicidal it would be to do anything like this. We're talking about apocalyptic end-of-the-world scenarios. Pants Donkey posted:It'd be a concern if he had party support, but most of the GOP hates him and just tolerate his bullshit so long as he rubber stamps their crap. If Trump had a breakdown and tried clinging to power by ignoring the election results, I feel the Republicans would have no problem abandoning him. Their agenda is not exactly served by the kind of open revolt a nullification of an election would cause. If Trump loses in 2020 (god willing), ultimately he will decide to go back to his cushy penthouse in Manhattan and sling poo poo at his successor--if he's not dead from a heart attack or dementia by then. He misses having no responsibility, and ultimately that will outweigh everything else. Fritz Coldcockin fucked around with this message at 15:53 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 15:50
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JazzFlight posted:He's not going to suspend elections, but based on how much illegal garbage he and the Republicans were doing to undermine fair elections last year, it'd guaranteed he'll do everything in his power to destroy whoever comes after him. If we thought the propaganda against Clinton was bad, just wait until "INSERT DEM CANDIDATE HERE" gets labeled the next spawn of Satan and voting locations are dropped to 1 per county. This time round they wont have something like the email scandal to hold against the candidate. Or someone who hasnt been in the spotlight as much as Clinton has over the last few years so they would likely have less "dirt" on them...not that that would stop them making poo poo up though
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May 30, 2017 15:51
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Drone posted:There is literally no Constitutional ability to suspend federal elections. Not only won't they do it, they can't do it. And if they tried, there would be 50 pissed-as-loving-hell state governments calling for who knows what -- secession, an Article V Convention, whatever. States with GOP-controlled legislatures and governors won't be pissed, they'll love it. Well, the people in charge will. But that's why they have the national guard. Now augmented by III%ers and Oath Keepers!
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May 30, 2017 15:51
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Blitz7x posted:Jesus yall, did no one live through the early 00's? We had these same exact conversations about Bush Jr. The suspension of elections, the slow downturn into dementia (heres a YouTube video of campaign speeches vs Press conferences where he says Uh a whole lot and has a bunch of brainfarts, clearly mental health issues). Trump is a big dumb dumb who will lead an ineffectual Presidency until he gets replaced in 2020 Yeah, except republicans are the party of kleptocracy and "gently caress government" now, instead of some miltonesque trickle-down nincompoops. Under a Bush presidency, I never felt that the core of democracy was in jeopardy. I feel like the core of our democracy is in jeopardy based solely on Trump winning in the first place. In 3.5 years who the gently caress even knows, man? Will he even make it that long?
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May 30, 2017 15:51
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CyberPingu posted:This time round they wont have something like the email scandal to hold against the candidate. Or someone who hasnt been in the spotlight as much as Clinton has over the last few years so they would likely have less "dirt" on them...not that that would stop them making poo poo up though
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May 30, 2017 15:52
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I'm going to make a hot take and suggest that the politics of 2018 will be pretty clear by the end of the year not because of the calendar date but because we will have several months retrospective on the month of Sept. By then the GOP will have done all their congressional tricks or be a living monument to failure.
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May 30, 2017 15:53
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Suspending elections is the final move from President to Dictator and the end of dictators is not great. I don't think the Trump administration is willing to make that gamble since if their for reals coup (as opposed to the soft one now) doesn't go well they will definitely not be living the high life they are accustomed to.
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May 30, 2017 15:53
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I was joking, just to be clear. The worst that will happen in regards to elections is more suppression, but they can't suppress away a wave. Btw I am convinced that the antigov militias will fight each other, at least a bit. They aren't just going to become FBI 2.0 overnight.
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May 30, 2017 15:54
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You would also probably get a better turnout than last time...gently caress knows how you could do worse. As a lot of voters didnt like either candidate and just decided not to vote...
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May 30, 2017 15:54
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Radish posted:I'd like to think even centrists are getting a little tired of the sort of decorum over results attitude that the Democrats have been displaying for almost two decades. It's one thing if you don't like leftist policies but it's another when your party is a bunch of losers locked entirely out of government. There might not be a lot of camaraderie on what rights are important but I think everyone is done with treating Republicans like faithful negotiators and not traitors; any politician pushing that view is going to become unpopular in a hurry. Yeah I hope so. Eliminating the filibuster on lower courts was at least a good sign. A 2000s Democrat would have politely waited for the voters to punish Republican obstruction and kept all the court seats open for years, then gaped as Republicans won and immediately abolished the filibuster and filled all those seats. On the other hand, they kept the blue slips despite rampant Republican abuse and now that we helpfully kept seats open for him, McConnel is dunking on us like the dupes we are and abolishing blue slips to fill all the district seats.
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May 30, 2017 15:54
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Alter Ego posted:They might get it for tax cuts but they'll never, ever get it for that abomination of a health care bill that the House just gave birth to. Any across-the-board tax cut bill would necessitate either a) spending cuts or b) increasing the deficit and I can't see the Dems voting for either one of those. Especially since we know who'd be getting the lion's share of those cuts.
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May 30, 2017 15:54
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Blitz7x posted:Jesus yall, did no one live through the early 00's? We had these same exact conversations about Bush Jr. The suspension of elections, the slow downturn into dementia (heres a YouTube video of campaign speeches vs Press conferences where he says Uh a whole lot and has a bunch of brainfarts, clearly mental health issues). Trump is a big dumb dumb who will lead an ineffectual Presidency until he gets replaced in 2020 Are you genuinel claiming that Bush Jr was ineffectual and not caused horrifying long-lasting damage and lead to ridiculous deaths?
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May 30, 2017 15:55
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RuanGacho posted:I'm going to make a hot take and suggest that the politics of 2018 will be pretty clear by the end of the year not because of the calendar date but because we will have several months retrospective on the month of Sept. I guess I'll feel better about this if the Dems win in GA but I'm worried that many voters are just going to tune Trump out if nothing really happens and the GOP will keep the house in 18 just because people aren't able to sustain their outrage and don't turn out for midterms like they usually don't. Julio Cruz posted:Any across-the-board tax cut bill would necessitate either a) spending cuts or b) increasing the deficit and I can't see the Dems voting for either one of those. Especially since we know who'd be getting the lion's share of those cuts. They can just do an unpaid for tax cut, they don't care at all about the defect. It would just sunset in 10 years but as we know, those sunsets always end up working out better for republicans than democrats.
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May 30, 2017 15:55
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Lightning Lord posted:Can't gently caress the Zuck. Can't Cuck the Zuck 2020
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May 30, 2017 15:57
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There Bias Two posted:I wouldn't be surprised if there were cops who joined them while off-duty. Ding ding ding Law enforcement and military personnel are the natural allies of militias. Remind yourself of who made up a great majority of the Brownshirt membership in the 1920s.
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May 30, 2017 15:56
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Easy Salmon Recipe posted:1) The GOP is, collectively, insane. They think that their actions, even if they result in massive death, will be justified in their imaginary afterlife. This is all true, but at least wrt suspending elections I think it's just so far outside of the realm of possibility. See Drone's post: There isn't a legal mechanism for enacting such a thing, so in order to suspend elections they'd literally have to attempt a full on coup of the US government and dissolve it, or attempt a constitutional amendment to allow them to do so legally. Which is just not possible in the next 3 years.
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May 30, 2017 15:57
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Drone posted:What are they ignoring? Enoulments clause, among others.
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May 30, 2017 15:57
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CyberPingu posted:This time round they wont have something like the email scandal to hold against the candidate. Or someone who hasnt been in the spotlight as much as Clinton has over the last few years so they would likely have less "dirt" on them...not that that would stop them making poo poo up though The E-mail scandal IS a generated scandal. It was never even slightly close to being a criminal act. It was an unwise IT security policy equivalent to ones happening wherever you work right now, no matter where you work. They'll find something similar on whoever the next candidate is. The trick is for the left to ignore whatever dumb thing they come up with.
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May 30, 2017 15:57
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ImpAtom posted:Are you genuinel claiming that Bush Jr was ineffectual and not caused horrifying long-lasting damage and lead to ridiculous deaths? Replace ineffective with "inability to create positive change"
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May 30, 2017 15:58
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Drone posted:What are they ignoring? Daily Obsturction of Justice? Massive incompetence? Blatant grift?
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May 30, 2017 15:59
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Alter Ego posted:If Trump loses in 2020 (god willing), ultimately he will decide to go back to his cushy penthouse in Manhattan and sling poo poo at his successor--if he's not dead from a heart attack or dementia by then. He misses having no responsibility, and ultimately that will outweigh everything else.
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May 30, 2017 15:59
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah I hope so. Eliminating the filibuster on lower courts was at least a good sign. A 2000s Democrat would have politely waited for the voters to punish Republican obstruction and kept all the court seats open for years, then gaped as Republicans won and immediately abolished the filibuster and filled all those seats. Democrats were dumbfucks up until January 2017 (and some later than that see Cory Booker) and now they are pretty powerless. They really were under the delusion that the general public gave a poo poo about abuse of power and ignoring Senate traditions when people are generally pro that sort of thing when it works in your favor and don't care about it as an excuse when it doesn't. A local politician is running in my area where he is literally calling Trump a "sociopathic maniac" in his ads so I think the time of "reasonable" discourse (where Democrats act like Republicans want what's best for America and they just disagree over the way to enact that) is over thankfully.
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May 30, 2017 16:00
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