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Yeah, Pauper has the nuts for cantripping. The point is more that Serum Visions is a card so bad that it's playable only when every cantrip you would willingly put in your deck is banned. I suppose I do feel you on the incidentally milling your only copy of a critical land though.
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May 30, 2017 21:23
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I'm playing the 4-color Death's Shadow deck because it's everything I've ever wanted in a deck. It's the Jundiest Jund deck to ever Jund, it has a 1-mana unconditional counterspell, and it can sideboard like a toolbox deck thanks to Traverse. I have all the pieces for the Grixis version but I've got a lot of Valakut and Prime Time decks in my area and Traversing for a Ghost Quarter or Fulminator Mage seems good.
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May 30, 2017 21:35
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What are some of the best strategies against all of these hyper-efficient Delver/Death's Shadow type of decks? It seems like resilience to discard is the key element.
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May 30, 2017 21:40
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Smashing Link posted:What are some of the best strategies against all of these hyper-efficient Delver/Death's Shadow type of decks? It seems like resilience to discard is the key element. Lots of removal, able to go late, and yeah resilient to discard effects. Basically you also play Jund, Abzan, or Grixis but instead of Death's Shadows you play more removal with 3-4 CMC creatures and/or planeswalkers.
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May 30, 2017 21:42
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Smashing Link posted:What are some of the best strategies against all of these hyper-efficient Delver/Death's Shadow type of decks? It seems like resilience to discard is the key element. Graveyard hate seemed to prevent flashback tricks with Snapcaster Mage and made Tasigur impossible to play in a timely manner. I want to say that Chalice of the Void would hinder Death's Shadow quite a bit, but Abrupt Decay and Kolighan's Command will just laugh you out of the room.
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May 30, 2017 21:47
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ThePeavstenator posted:Lots of removal, able to go late, and yeah resilient to discard effects. Basically you also play Jund, Abzan, or Grixis but instead of Death's Shadows you play more removal with 3-4 CMC creatures and/or planeswalkers. Hmm we need a sweeper card that has the wording "if an opponent forces you to discard ~ instead it gains suspend and put 2 time counters on it". That would be good against all these drat weenies.
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May 30, 2017 21:49
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ThePeavstenator posted:I'm playing the 4-color Death's Shadow deck because it's everything I've ever wanted in a deck. It's the Jundiest Jund deck to ever Jund, it has a 1-mana unconditional counterspell, and it can sideboard like a toolbox deck thanks to Traverse. Which lists are you using for this?
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May 30, 2017 21:51
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The Shortest Path posted:Which lists are you using for this? https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-death-s-shadow-aggro-32571#paper
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May 30, 2017 21:54
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Yeah but I'm debating on if I should try to also get a forest in there as a second basic.
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May 30, 2017 22:04
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Sickening posted:You haven't haven't had a bad land mill with thought scour yet then? Its statically a low chance of happening and you do have 7 lands in total that actually produce mana, but getting boned does happen. Mix in a few ghost quarters and the like and it does indeed get frustrating. Its balanced by the god hands that produce early 5 toughness butts against burn and the like. Good players thought scour their opponent pretty often for that exact reason. Also yea pauper has brainstorm/ponder/preordain so i dont get that comparison either.
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May 30, 2017 22:04
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little munchkin posted:Good players thought scour their opponent pretty often for that exact reason. Huh? Only if they've manipulated the top of their deck in some way. Or kept it the same, in the case of Scrying.
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May 30, 2017 22:11
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I used to thought scour my opponent a lot in my mill deck 
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May 30, 2017 22:11
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I always Thought Scour my opponent. You never know, you could mill their planeswalker!
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May 30, 2017 22:20
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glimpse the unthinkable->surgical extraction 
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May 30, 2017 22:23
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little munchkin posted:Good players thought scour their opponent pretty often for that exact reason. Do they?
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May 30, 2017 23:07
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I thought I was missing something with the Jund DS deck as I couldn't understand why people were playing it over the Grixis version. Seems people have caught up now. It should make the Birmingham GP interesting in August as it is deceptively hard to play and easy to beat if your opponent does not known how to play it. I guess I'll be taking burn 
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May 30, 2017 23:22
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sit on my Facebook posted:Do they? I seriously doubt that very trying to mill both of their remaining lands that can produce a particular color while also running the much bigger risk of drawing them 2 real cards (and ramping them by 2 while doing it) is actually a good play. But YMMV obviously.
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May 30, 2017 23:25
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gwrtheyrn posted:glimpse the unthinkable->surgical extraction This but unironically. Also I'm undefeated in matches vs Death's Shadow decks on Mill. 1-0
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May 30, 2017 23:29
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Every modern deck that isn't a linear combo or tron-like deck should probably be running 3-4 Surgical Extraction in the sideboard for DS decks. Seriously, those decks run maybe 6 - 9 threats in the entire 75, and if you hit their first Goyf or DS with Surgical, you basically half their chance of killing you regardless of how do-nothing your other cards may be.
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May 30, 2017 23:32
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AlternateNu posted:Every modern deck that isn't a linear combo or tron-like deck should probably be running 3-4 Surgical Extraction in the sideboard for DS decks. Seriously, those decks run maybe 6 - 9 threats in the entire 75, and if you hit their first Goyf or DS with Surgical, you basically half their chance of killing you regardless of how do-nothing your other cards may be. If you have no other sideboard options, fine. Seems like a pretty bad option against a deck that lands a threat and then shits on your surgicals in hand.
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May 30, 2017 23:41
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If you're not bringing in Surgicals against the extremely redundant, non-linear, extremely grindy deck I don't know what you'd even bring them in against tbh.
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May 30, 2017 23:57
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Also I got loving destroyed by martyr proc at a 3k over the weekend. loving ruined. How do you interact with the deck if they have a martyr and a mana open?
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May 30, 2017 23:59
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Sickening posted:If you have no other sideboard options, fine. Seems like a pretty bad option against a deck that lands a threat and then shits on your surgicals in hand. Except the decks I'm saying should run it already run 10 - 20 ways to get that first creature in the grave, so not really.
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May 31, 2017 00:06
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What if we play 4 Thought Scour and always target them and mill their Death's Shadows THEN Surgical them? Edit: Actually it should be Archive Trap so we have a turn 0, 0 mana instant win in response to their Thoughtseize. suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 00:13 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 00:09
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ThePeavstenator posted:Yeah but I'm debating on if I should try to also get a forest in there as a second basic. A second question here, should I run any Mistys or Breeding Pools or should every fetch be able to get a swamp?
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May 31, 2017 00:23
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Mezzanon posted:Also I got loving destroyed by martyr proc at a 3k over the weekend. loving ruined. How do you interact with the deck if they have a martyr and a mana open? I beat Proc with Bogles once because I just got bigger than the life they were gaining every turn.
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May 31, 2017 00:29
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C-Euro posted:This but unironically. Also I'm undefeated in matches vs Death's Shadow decks on Mill. I wasn't joking either. Surgical is a great card when your game plan is milling your opponent
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May 31, 2017 01:08
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Mezzanon posted:Also I got loving destroyed by martyr proc at a 3k over the weekend. loving ruined. How do you interact with the deck if they have a martyr and a mana open? If this is the one in Red Deer like I think it is I had a swarm of buddies there playing (and one judging). One of them landed 3rd/4th which was rad. As for dealing with Martyr decks: don't be playing red. Hard removal (Terminate, Path, etc.) is the only thing that gets their 6/6 one drops if they draw a good grip that can drop a fat 6/6 on T2. Some decks just can't handle that, though.
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May 31, 2017 01:17
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GoutPatrol posted:I beat Proc with Bogles once because I just got bigger than the life they were gaining every turn. I get that. My opponent opened with T1 flagstones, T2 float mana, second flagstones, crucible of worlds. Then ramped up to 8 mana with 2 ghostly prison on the board I think the line I should have taken was just keep activating my Gavony township with my giant hexproof board and just let him naturally mill out?
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May 31, 2017 01:18
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suicidesteve posted:What if we play 4 Thought Scour and always target them and mill their Death's Shadows THEN Surgical them? Oh Steve I love it when you talk dirty like that :bigtran: I'm actually going to Modern night this Friday after missing the previous two, was planning to take RG Breach since it's been a few months but now I kinda want to roll Mill some more. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 01:43 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 01:30
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AlternateNu posted:Every modern deck that isn't a linear combo or tron-like deck should probably be running 3-4 Surgical Extraction in the sideboard for DS decks. Seriously, those decks run maybe 6 - 9 threats in the entire 75, and if you hit their first Goyf or DS with Surgical, you basically half their chance of killing you regardless of how do-nothing your other cards may be. The versions with green also have Goyfs and a full playset of Traverse to find other theats, and the Grixis builds have Tasigur / Angler plus Snapcasters. Both versions are very grindy and put a lot of pressure on resources so if you are 0-for-1'ing yourself against them it might just make you lose the game the old fashioned way. These are not some one-wincon combo decks that literally stop functioning if you extract a piece. EDIT: this is basically like boarding in Surgicals to take the Goyfs out of regular Jund. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 01:40 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 01:32
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^^^ Well it's not as fun when you explain why Surgical is absolutely terrible against a midrange deck.Mezzanon posted:I get that. My opponent opened with T1 flagstones, T2 float mana, second flagstones, crucible of worlds. Uhhhhhh they probably couldn't have done that.
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May 31, 2017 01:46
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Yeah the Plains you get off of Flagstones come into play tapped.
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May 31, 2017 02:17
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Mezzanon posted:I get that. My opponent opened with T1 flagstones, T2 float mana, second flagstones, crucible of worlds. suicidesteve posted:Uhhhhhh they probably couldn't have done that. Yeah, the only way I see that working is with getting Amulet of Vigor out on T1. And I'm guessing that isn't played in the deck in question.
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May 31, 2017 02:20
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TheMaestroso posted:Yeah, the only way I see that working is with getting Amulet of Vigor out on T1. And I'm guessing that isn't played in the deck in question. Spirit Guide works too and is slightly more likely, like .1% instead of 0.
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May 31, 2017 02:35
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Mikujin posted:If this is the one in Red Deer like I think it is I had a swarm of buddies there playing (and one judging). One of them landed 3rd/4th which was rad. Yeah that's the one! I started 4-1 then went to a loving shameful 4-4. I was on bant spirits. One of our teammates top 16'd, we were the guys in the purple Untapped Potential shirts.
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May 31, 2017 03:31
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TheMaestroso posted:Yeah, the only way I see that working is with getting Amulet of Vigor out on T1. And I'm guessing that isn't played in the deck in question. More likely option: it actually happened on T3 and I misremembered because up until Sunday I was only barely aware that the deck existed. I had to read several of his cards
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May 31, 2017 03:35
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Smashing Link posted:What are some of the best strategies against all of these hyper-efficient Delver/Death's Shadow type of decks? It seems like resilience to discard is the key element. The card Spellstutter Sprite is very good against Deaths Shadow decks.
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May 31, 2017 03:57
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I'm going to live in a fantasy world where Great Sable Stag is a reasonable counter to Death's Shadow.
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May 31, 2017 04:05
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Faeries is actually really good against Deaths Shadow, though. Sprite is amazing against a hyper efficient deck, AV is a card advantage spell that gets under discard semifrequently, all your removal is amazing, and you only need a couple attacks to kill em. Lingering Souls builds are somewhat more challenging, but even then they're never packing a playset so you're pretty much fine.
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May 31, 2017 04:14
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