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I guess I will mentally take the asterisk off the vengeance pally's 60 damage turn of which I was supremely jealous but for me this doesn't change much as with a +1 str I don't hit poo poo in the first place. I need those spell slots for putting nere-do-wells to sleep and reflex shielding.
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May 31, 2017 16:46
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Krinkle posted:I don't think you can smite twice in a turn. I haven't, at least. If you cast a spell in your bonus action you can only cast cantrips in your main action, for example. It seems to imply you can only ever use one spell slot per round. monks and sorcs can go nuts with the point systems but spell slots are bottlenecked. It would be nice to be able to divine smite as many times as I connect, a round, but I'm not sure it's allowed? Booming Blade is a cantrip, and Divine Smite doesn't count as spellcasting. Nothing in the description says you can only use it once per round. That's how Paladins nova. An alternative cheapo character is a grapple-stacked Barbarian who just grapples then prones enemies constantly. They can't get up from prone while grappled because they have 0 movement, and you can cave their faces in with a handaxe or longsword or whatever with advantage. The other old standby is a Fighter with Archery style, Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter, just go akimbo hand crossbows and end up with like 3d6+39 damage or whatever. Reclaimer fucked around with this message at 16:50 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 16:47
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Krinkle posted:I don't think you can smite twice in a turn. I haven't, at least. If you cast a spell in your bonus action you can only cast cantrips in your main action, for example. It seems to imply you can only ever use one spell slot per round. monks and sorcs can go nuts with the point systems but spell slots are bottlenecked. It would be nice to be able to divine smite as many times as I connect, a round, but I'm not sure it's allowed? Pretty sure Booming Blade is a cantrip, so casting it as a Bonus Action (using Quickened) and an Action should be legit. Also, what about Divine Smite's text would imply it's only once per round? e;fb
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May 31, 2017 16:50
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Razorwired posted:If you REALLY wanna be passive aggressive and gently caress with the DM pull this on him.
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May 31, 2017 16:53
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Razorwired posted:If you REALLY wanna be passive aggressive and gently caress with the DM pull this on him. I kind of want to do this minus the passive aggression in my own game. I'm pretty sure everyone including the DM would think it was pretty funny.
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May 31, 2017 17:09
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Ok, I guess it never occurred to me to just print it. Thanks!
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May 31, 2017 17:46
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Something's gotta be wearing thin on Crawford lately -- dude has been really snarky. Latest story on the pile, I told him about that mess with the Lore Master last night and he just replied "it's a good thing it's not part of the game then!" And like.... yeah, but you guys specifically put that poo poo out for us to play it and try it out and my game is suffering for it.
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May 31, 2017 17:48
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WotC isn't a particularly nice place to work, and dealing with the shitshow that is 5e probably doesn't help either.
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May 31, 2017 17:51
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having to answer RAW questions for a game as shoddy as 5e would age me right the gently caress up, too And UA is specifically designed to absolve them of any responsibility to put out quality work, so
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May 31, 2017 17:54
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Nehru the Damaja posted:"it's a good thing it's not part of the game then!" Imagine if you did this at your job. A customer has a problem, and your response is just, "nope." dandwiki becomes less ridiculous with every UA article.
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May 31, 2017 18:16
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Man, what magical land of plenty do you guys live in where you can just dump playing with a table after 1 bad night? It took me loving months to find people I could play with outside of childhood friends on roll20.
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May 31, 2017 20:26
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Garl_Grimm posted:Imagine if you did this at your job. A customer has a problem, and your response is just, "nope." You've never called IT? Edit: this being SA I should probably frame this the other way: You've never done this in your IT job?
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May 31, 2017 20:44
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Pham Nuwen posted:You've never called IT? Nope.
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May 31, 2017 20:51
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This is directed to the thread at large. I grew up playing Rifts which is lol levels of fuckery for a system and except for an excessively home brewed ADnD campaign that I didn't know was based on DnD until after the fact, I didn't have much involvement with the system until 5e. I'm completely agnostic on which version is best or better and have had fun with 5e, but there seems to be a consistent under current in thread about 5e being a poo poo show or just objectively inferior to older versions. Is there any kind of summary that could be given to explain how you guys got here or just an article that you could link to that says it for you? Genuinely just curious to what informed the thread's opinion. From lurking for awhile now it seems part of it is directly tied to the personalities that dev'd the edition but I feel like there is more to it than that.
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May 31, 2017 21:48
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Seconded. 5e is the first system I learned, and it seems way more fun than what I've seen of 4e, which just seems boring. I know there are balance issues between the classes, with the wizard being way overpowered and some classes not getting much to do at higher levels, but honestly I've never played a campaign beyond level 9 anyway.
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May 31, 2017 21:56
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5e iterates on 3e while ignoring almost all of the lessons of 4e. That said, if you're happy with what you're playing, don't worry about it too much.
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May 31, 2017 21:58
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theory crafting: if your bbeg opponent in a campaign is indestructible and takes minimal to zero damage from attacks, what are good end runs to kill him? I'm thinking of drowning , suffocation, anything else? he's super strong too so just getting him incapacitated is going to be really hard. I'm sure our DM will end up with us on a quest to remove this guy's protections but hey I'm all for cheap wins earlier than expected
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May 31, 2017 22:02
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They seemed to focus on "feeling like dnd" over mechanical soundness - there are a number of rough edges. This is the first edition I've ever played/DMed seriously and I'm less than impressed. There's plenty of things in the old rulebooks that sound like a pain in the rear end, but thoughtfulness of the design compared to what I've looked at of 4e is...lacking.
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May 31, 2017 22:03
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Dameius posted:This is directed to the thread at large. I grew up playing Rifts which is lol levels of fuckery for a system and except for an excessively home brewed ADnD campaign that I didn't know was based on DnD until after the fact, I didn't have much involvement with the system until 5e. I'm very much a D&Dilettante, so I don't speak from deep experience. I see people pointing out a lot of rule inconsistencies, conflicts, and bad editorial decisions in the rulebooks, more than I see from other editions. That being said, those problems all seem like the kind of thing that players and DMs should easily be able to come to a compromise about. I personally prefer 5e's generally streamlined approach, which pretty explicitly expects players to not lawyer too hard. 3e is probably more extensible and you could do more simulation with it if you wanted, but it's also kind of a bear to navigate and teach.
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May 31, 2017 22:10
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mastershakeman posted:theory crafting: if your bbeg opponent in a campaign is indestructible and takes minimal to zero damage from attacks, what are good end runs to kill him? Flesh to Stone, True Polymorph, Imprisonment are all p good options if you have the spells and slots, esp if you can somehow inflict disadvantage on the save. If you have two casters with 9th level spells, True Polymorph (or heck even regular Polymorph) plus Power Word Kill is OP.
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May 31, 2017 22:27
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Time Cowboy posted:Seconded. 5e is the first system I learned, and it seems way more fun than what I've seen of 4e, which just seems boring. I know there are balance issues between the classes, with the wizard being way overpowered and some classes not getting much to do at higher levels, but honestly I've never played a campaign beyond level 9 anyway. Ok well first let me answer your question with another question. What are you looking to get out of the game? because we're pretty much living in the golden age of RPG design and there are tons of well made games for every playstyle and game goal. The only actual reasons to play D&D 5e is if you are looking to play the current edition of D&D no matter what or if it's literally the only thing people will play.
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May 31, 2017 22:54
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Time Cowboy posted:Seconded. 5e is the first system I learned, and it seems way more fun than what I've seen of 4e, which just seems boring. I know there are balance issues between the classes, with the wizard being way overpowered and some classes not getting much to do at higher levels, but honestly I've never played a campaign beyond level 9 anyway. Try running games of both editions, and I bet you'll change your tune.
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May 31, 2017 22:57
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Reclaimer posted:Flesh to Stone, True Polymorph, Imprisonment are all p good options if you have the spells and slots, esp if you can somehow inflict disadvantage on the save. If you have two casters with 9th level spells, True Polymorph (or heck even regular Polymorph) plus Power Word Kill is OP. good suggestions but I'm trying to avoid spells. I have a suspicion that they won't work or else it'd be too easy. for reference we killed this guy's brother (who had gone invisible and has stayed invis a week after death which is weird) by putting a bucket of blood over a door and ambushing him once we could see where he was. I'm thinking ridiculous poo poo like lassos and nets
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May 31, 2017 22:58
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mastershakeman posted:good suggestions but I'm trying to avoid spells. I have a suspicion that they won't work or else it'd be too easy. Get the Muscle to grapple then prone him in a square with shallow water so he drowns. He has to use his own action to break the grapple or just stay down there, and he cannot stand up until he breaks the grapple. The rest of the party can join in on the grapple too, so he has to break multiple grapples before he can stop drowning, and whichever people he shakes off can just grapple him again on their turns.
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May 31, 2017 23:06
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Dameius posted:This is directed to the thread at large. I grew up playing Rifts which is lol levels of fuckery for a system and except for an excessively home brewed ADnD campaign that I didn't know was based on DnD until after the fact, I didn't have much involvement with the system until 5e. It's mostly because it came on the heels of 4E, which was a marked departure for the franchise after 3/3.5. This led to two things happening: 1) Nerds hated it, oh lord do nerds ever hate change 2) SA's hivemind saw the cool things about the system and circled the wagons reactively due to 1) Now, in my opinion (and this is going to make a lot of people here frown slightly and probably think less of me), but as a DM I think 5E is pretty much neck and neck with 4E in terms of editions. It's just so streamlined. There are absolutely rules and layout issues with the 5E books, but that's absolutely true of every edition (even 4E, which has just absurdly, completely loving broken math in major sections of the book that only got band-aids rather than real fixes and then only in the DMG2 and MM3. Like, the whole system was built around balance, but then it threw in a system for Skill Challenges that wavered between "impossible" and "impossible to fail" depending on level because someone hosed up their probability homework.).
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May 31, 2017 23:06
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Reclaimer posted:Get the Muscle to grapple then prone him in a square with shallow water so he drowns. He has to use his own action to break the grapple or just stay down there, and he cannot stand up until he breaks the grapple. The rest of the party can join in on the grapple too, so he has to break multiple grapples before he can stop drowning, and whichever people he shakes off can just grapple him again on their turns. nice, now that's what I'm tolkien about
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May 31, 2017 23:08
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mastershakeman posted:theory crafting: if your bbeg opponent in a campaign is indestructible and takes minimal to zero damage from attacks, what are good end runs to kill him? Is this evil dude living in a doom fortress or a normal city, and does he need to sleep and eat? Basically, what do you know about him?
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May 31, 2017 23:08
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mastershakeman posted:theory crafting: if your bbeg opponent in a campaign is indestructible and takes minimal to zero damage from attacks, what are good end runs to kill him? Divination Wizard to make him fail his saves, and then save or die or trap him in a demiplane or whatever.
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May 31, 2017 23:09
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sleepy.eyes posted:Is this evil dude living in a doom fortress or a normal city, and does he need to sleep and eat? Basically, what do you know about him? He's campaigning at the front of his army, we're defending civilization from him. ran into him once and got chumped and fled. He's directly powered up by a god but I don't think he's an avatar. No idea if he needs to eat or sleep, I'm hoping he needs to breathe. Theres a high chance he's going to be immune to the spells we're capable of throwing at him. we're extremely light in spellcasting partly due to irl drama and a player quitting. mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 23:18 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 23:15
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food court bailiff posted:but as a DM I think 5E is pretty much neck and neck with 4E in terms of editions. It's just so streamlined. I seriously cannot wrap my head around the idea that CR and building monsters as PCs is somehow more "streamlined" than MM3 on a business card.
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May 31, 2017 23:15
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Big Black Brony posted:Anyone have a good system for handling monster stat blocks as a dm? I've started writing them out on index cards but it's very time consuming and if they have any more than a few abilities I lose space quick. I'm late to this but this is pretty good. Good for spells too. http://hardcodex.ru/monsters/
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May 31, 2017 23:18
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P.d0t posted:I seriously cannot wrap my head around the idea that CR and building monsters as PCs is somehow more "streamlined" than MM3 on a business card. The Gynosphinx has spell slots and it needs to use them to cast Tongues and Heroes Feast. Heroes Feast! How the gently caress is that simplified?!
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May 31, 2017 23:19
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Dameius posted:Is there any kind of summary that could be given to explain how you guys got here or just an article that you could link to that says it for you? Genuinely just curious to what informed the thread's opinion. From lurking for awhile now it seems part of it is directly tied to the personalities that dev'd the edition but I feel like there is more to it than that. This is going to down as overly harsh because I wasn't "watching my tone" when I wrote this, but: quote:5e is a badly designed game.
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May 31, 2017 23:24
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P.d0t posted:I seriously cannot wrap my head around the idea that CR and building monsters as PCs is somehow more "streamlined" than MM3 on a business card. MM3 on a business card isn't exactly a core book, dude. MM3 itself came out two years after the game proper and most DMs I know never bought it (hell, I didn't, and I have a full bookshelf of 4E stuff. It's not like I didn't enjoy the game then.). And, uh, if people are talking about streamlining a game, they might not be as concerned with building monsters as you'd think. I just reskin/alter what's there.
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May 31, 2017 23:39
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food court bailiff posted:MM3 on a business card isn't exactly a core book, dude. MM3 itself came out two years after the game proper and most DMs I know never bought it (hell, I didn't, and I have a full bookshelf of 4E stuff. It's not like I didn't enjoy the game then.). And, uh, if people are talking about streamlining a game, they might not be as concerned with building monsters as you'd think. I just reskin/alter what's there. It's not relevant to the point if MM3 on a business card wasn't there when the 4e books first came out. What is relevant is that the design paradigm was extant by the time they were designing 5e, and they deliberately chose to go back to a model that's significantly more inconvenient for the GM to run.
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May 31, 2017 23:46
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^This guy gets it. 5e could have been a refinement of the best that 4e had to offer in terms of DM tools; as it is, I'd rather run 4e as it existed at the end of its life cycle than run 5e as it exists, what, 5 years after that?
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Jun 1, 2017 00:09
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's not relevant to the point if MM3 on a business card wasn't there when the 4e books first came out. What is relevant is that the design paradigm was extant by the time they were designing 5e, and they deliberately chose to go back to a model that's significantly more inconvenient for the GM to run. It's also not like they didn't have access to designers who were cognizant of these things and capable of generating good designs- I mean Robert Schwalb was one of the designers and Shadow of the Demon Lord is so much better at doing everything 5th edition claims as a strength than actual 5th edition that it's hilarious. It's also vastly better supported in terms of ancillary content than D&D 5E despite being produced by his own small imprint rather than loving WotC/Hasbro.
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Jun 1, 2017 00:13
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's not relevant to the point if MM3 on a business card wasn't there when the 4e books first came out. What is relevant is that the design paradigm was extant by the time they were designing 5e, and they deliberately chose to go back to a model that's significantly more inconvenient for the GM to run. Sorry, but I ran three games of 4E in that two year period, it's absolutely relevant to what I was saying. And the CR system is flawed here but it was nonsense there unless you wanted every combat to involve plinking away for hours. I don't see it as "significantly more inconvenient" to run, either, because the game itself flows much better (again: in my experience) when everyone isn't obsessing over how to best synergize their push/pull abilities for ten minutes a turn. I mean, your mileage may vary, but from personal experience my group regularly clears out half a dungeon floor in a session where my longest-running 4E group (with less players, so less complicated fights with less participants) very rarely rarely got through more than one encounter in the same amount of time. 5E is really far from perfect but I've genuinely come to enjoy running it more than I did with 4E. I think it's really a matter of expectations - 4E has, hands-down, the meatiest and most satisfying combat of any iteration of the game yet - I'd go so far as to say it's one of the best tactical battle systems in tabletop games, period. And combat is obviously the thrust of D&D, it's what most of the rules are based around, whatever. But it's not all there is - my players like a game where the threat of combat is always looming but it's focused on exploration and discovery first and foremost. That's cool, I like that. 5E lets us play that game without a single combat derailing a whole night. I know there are groups out there that would rather have every encounter be a super intense tactical battle where everyone is using all of their fifteen options, but for me and my groups we found it a little too heavy. Plus, for what its worth, the first several years of published adventures for 4E were absolute garbage. I don't run straight-up published adventures but I like cribbing stuff from them, and things like Keep on the Shadowfell and Pyramid of Shadows were dire. I'm pretty fond of OotA and CoS in 5E.
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Jun 1, 2017 00:15
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food court bailiff posted:my players like a game where the threat of combat is always looming but it's focused on exploration and discovery first and foremost. That's cool, I like that. 5E lets us play that game without a single combat derailing a whole night. So why not play a better game that actually has this as a focus?
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Jun 1, 2017 00:20
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Elfgames posted:So why not play a better game that actually has this as a focus? Because despite what this board has told you, none of 5E's flaws are nearly as insurmountable at the table as everyone likes to make them out to be here. Again, since you don't seem to be really parsing this crucial bit of information: my group enjoys playing 5E. I enjoy running it. Why would we play something else? If we wanted something lighter, we'd play Dungeon/Inverse World, if we wanted something crunchier we'd break the 4E books back out, but we are genuinely enjoying our game, I promise that we are not actually pretending to be elves wrong.
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Jun 1, 2017 00:24
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