Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce

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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed.
Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce	44	21.36%
ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress	19	9.22%
Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin	9	4.37%
Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit	8	3.88%
Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died	24	11.65%
Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread	17	8.25%
ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter	15	7.28%
ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming	2	0.97%
Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy	10	4.85%
ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union	5	2.43%
ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die	25	12.14%
Total:	206 votes

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Acaila: Jan 2, 2011

So I was driving up to the Highlands tonight for a long weekend, and got stuck, right at the end of one of the bits of dual carriageway, behind the "Freedom Convoy". I assume it was some sort of pre-election attempt to promote the SNP in true "we'll wear lots of badges but do no actual campaigning" zoomer style, but how they think 20 cars and vans driving up single carriageway at 45mph is going to endear them to anyone I don't know. It was all sorts of cringe though, with custom vinyl stickers proclaiming that they are freedom fighters and such.

# ? May 19, 2017 23:39

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 01:46

Leggsy: Apr 30, 2008; We'll take our chances...

Travelling ATM, did anyone catch the leaders debate? From what I've read it was pretty much all Sturgeon VS Davidson. Naturally I've heard conflicting reports on who did better but David Torrance of all people was being complementary on Twitter towards Sturgeon.

Also heard something about a nurse which has got the zoomers riled up but I can't watch any clips.

# ? May 21, 2017 23:30

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Leggsy posted:

Also heard something about a nurse which has got the zoomers riled up but I can't watch any clips.

A nurse criticised Sturgeon during the debate.

In response, the SNP briefed the media that the nurse is married to a Tory politician, which is not true and they later retracted, but not before SNP activists started 'investigating' her - and saying she is wrong because she drinks wine and went on holiday.

'Riling the zoomers' is SNP strategy.

# ? May 21, 2017 23:42

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Niric posted:

In case anyone wants to keep up with what's happening after the local elections, the BBC has a handy run down:

I didn't realise the SNP had lost Aberdeenshire. Doesn't surprise me, though; they only held it because Martin Kitts-Hayes defected, and there was no way his seat wasn't going back to the Lib Dems.

# ? May 22, 2017 00:50

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Leggsy posted:

Travelling ATM, did anyone catch the leaders debate? From what I've read it was pretty much all Sturgeon VS Davidson. Naturally I've heard conflicting reports on who did better but David Torrance of all people was being complementary on Twitter towards Sturgeon.

Also heard something about a nurse which has got the zoomers riled up but I can't watch any clips.

I don't see the point of the debate. From what I read on Twitter they ended up talking about a bunch of devolved issues because of course they did.

# ? May 22, 2017 09:39

Kin: Nov 4, 2003; Sometimes, in a city this dirty, you need a real hero.

All I saw in the news on it this morning was it being highlighted that all the other parties constantly banging on about independence, with them denying it.

This is followed with the news just now highlighting the other parties banging in about independence again at every opportunity they can.

# ? May 22, 2017 18:37

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

I suspect that if the SNP stopped demanding independence referendums the other parties would soon stop 'banging on' about them doing so.

# ? May 22, 2017 18:47

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Pissflaps posted:

I suspect that if the SNP stopped demanding independence referendums the other parties would soon stop 'banging on' about them doing so.

honestly I can't believe they would, the Tories in particular have found a nice little rut to put their campaigns in and would just put a bunch of suggestive headlines on their next leaflet implying the SNP were planning one in secret

# ? May 22, 2017 20:39

Lightning Lord: Feb 21, 2013; $200 a day, plus expenses

So why hasn't Grant Morrison caused Scotland to fly into space to escape this fell Brexited world yet? Still charging up his orgone generator?

Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 23:06 on May 22, 2017

# ? May 22, 2017 20:56

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Not going to repeat all the goings on with that nurse thing but: Jesus Christ Scottish nationalists are really, really hosed up.

# ? May 22, 2017 21:39

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

Kin posted:

All I saw in the news on it this morning was it being highlighted that all the other parties constantly banging on about independence, with them denying it.

This is followed with the news just now highlighting the other parties banging in about independence again at every opportunity they can.

Going to quote this sick burn from Willie Rennie in response

quote:

Mr Rennie said the SNP's focus was "always independence", adding: "It took 44 days for Nicola Sturgeon to publish her Bill on another independence referendum. It took 15 months for them to write their mental health strategy.
"It took two years for us to persuade them to expand nursery education for two-year-olds and it took six years for us to persuade them about a pupil premium."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39995184

quote:

Her appearance sparked speculation on social media about her relationship to a Conservative councillor, and her personal circumstances. Some of these posts were retweeted by a number of senior SNP politicians, including MSPs and general election candidates, before later being deleted.

Isn't this the second NHS worker the SNP have had a witch hunt against ?

# ? May 22, 2017 23:04

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Yeah there was one on QT a while back who dared to ask a critical question.

# ? May 22, 2017 23:06

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Why has the SNP left their manifesto launch so late ?

# ? May 28, 2017 08:32

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

They delayed it due to the Manchester attack.

# ? May 28, 2017 11:27

Leggsy: Apr 30, 2008; We'll take our chances...

Yeah, it was scheduled to launch on the 23rd according to SNP member emails. Which would have been the morning after the attack.

# ? May 28, 2017 15:26

bitterandtwisted: Sep 4, 2006

Are the tories pushing Davidson's brand on all their candidates? Edniburgh SW leaflet headlines:

Only RUTH DAVIDSON'S Candidate,
_{some guy}
Can stop the SNP!*

_{_{_{*based on council results lol}}}

Reminds me of Ken's branding in Toy Story 3

# ? May 31, 2017 20:01

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Are the Scottish nationalists using the "Only the SNP can stop the Tories" slogan?

# ? May 31, 2017 20:17

bitterandtwisted: Sep 4, 2006

Not had a leaflet from them lately

# ? May 31, 2017 20:26

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

Cat Mattress posted:

Are the Scottish nationalists using the "Only the SNP can stop the Tories" slogan?

not really, but emphasising that the Tories are scum and that they have opposed them in Westminster

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40091999

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/thesnp/pages/9544/attachments/original/1496139998/Manifesto_2017.pdf?1496139998

I find their manifesto for the UK parliament wierd, it's full of stuff like

quote:

An end to austerity
SNP MPs will demand an end to austerity. We have a responsible plan to repair the public finances while also freeing up additional resources to bring an end to austerity. This will allow us to support a halt to further social security cuts, an end to the freeze on working age bene ts, increased investment
in public services and protection for family budgets.

So while the SNP MPs are demanding things in the UK parliament and getting ignored why haven't the SNP MSPs used their devolved tax raising powers to do something about it ?
It's an odd combination of pretending they'll have any significant influence in Westminster while hoping you forget they've been in government here for a decade done gently caress all about any of these thing despite having the devolved power to do so.

Also not strictly Scottish politics but interesting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40098804

quote:

One in eight political stories shared on Twitter in the run-up to the general election is from a "junk news source", research suggests.

UK users shared one link from automated bot accounts promoting "junk" information for every four links to professionally produced news, according to the Oxford Internet Institute.

The study found content about the Labour Party dominated traffic.

# ? May 31, 2017 23:58

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

jre posted:

So while the SNP MPs are demanding things in the UK parliament and getting ignored why haven't the SNP MSPs used their devolved tax raising powers to do something about it ?
It's an odd combination of pretending they'll have any significant influence in Westminster while hoping you forget they've been in government here for a decade done gently caress all about any of these thing despite having the devolved power to do so.

I've said it before. If Scotland's problems can be fixed within the Union, then what reason is there to risk independence?

# ? Jun 1, 2017 12:20

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

The Scottish Christian Party leaflet we got through the door today was almost as obsessed with stopping independence as it was with quoting the bible.

Oddball bunch.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 15:28

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

Jedit posted:

I've said it before. If Scotland's problems can be fixed within the Union, then what reason is there to risk independence?

If we can do this well with *those bastards* holding us back, imagine how amazing we'd be on our own?

I'm still mad about the McCrone report. I mean, really.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 16:06

Leggsy: Apr 30, 2008; We'll take our chances...

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1390070-unionist-parties-working-against-snp-in-key-seats/

Scottish Labour are competing hard with Theresa May over who can sabotage themselves the hardest.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 19:10

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Leggsy posted:

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1390070-unionist-parties-working-against-snp-in-key-seats/

Scottish Labour are competing hard with Theresa May over who can sabotage themselves the hardest.

I don't get how Scottish Labour can be so tone deaf. This poo poo transparently benefits the Conservatives. Labour cannot pick up voters from the SNP by cozying up to the Tories.

I really wish I could be a fly on the wall of the strategy meetings where ScotLab come up with this poo poo. Have they brought in John McTernan again?

# ? Jun 1, 2017 19:13

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

Dunno about McTernan but Blair McDougall, the ultra-yoon, is running.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 19:46

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Coohoolin posted:

If we can do this well with *those bastards* holding us back, imagine how amazing we'd be on our own?

I'm still mad about the McCrone report. I mean, really.

Coohoolin posted:

Dunno about McTernan but Blair McDougall, the ultra-yoon, is running.

Do you realise what a cliche you are?

# ? Jun 1, 2017 20:35

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Leggsy posted:

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1390070-unionist-parties-working-against-snp-in-key-seats/

Scottish Labour are competing hard with Theresa May over who can sabotage themselves the hardest.

This does seem pretty vague as to what the precise nature of this arrangement is. Have the parties even talked to each other at all? Are they just deciding to focus resources on the most competitive seats because they're a bit stretched? Has Kezia met Ruth on a bench on Princes St Gardens and exchanged secret codewords? Who knows, and we're not going to tell you, just constantly imply that something interesting has taken place.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 21:39

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Sturgeon undoing years of hard 'Scotland can't decide UK elections' work.

https://twitter.com/Daily_Record/status/870291551972405248

# ? Jun 1, 2017 22:23

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

So we all know that Scottish education isn't in the best of states right now, or at least that the SNP's record on education has come in for a bit of a battering, with even the SNP tacitly accepting improvement is needed:

Scotsman 8 March: MSPs vote against SNP over �failing� Scots education system
Herald (Iain McWhirter) 4 May: "On education, it�s clear that the SNP has failed to improve matters in the past decade"
iNews 12 May: Education expert hits out at SNP�s decision to scrap literacy survey
FT 21 May: Sturgeon criticised on health and education record
Holyrood Magazine 1 June: John Swinney: cut to teacher training places 'probably' went too far
FT 2 June: Scottish schools will improve within 4 years, SNP promises
etc etc

Even an SNP press release admits "Our PISA scores � the OECD�s international measure of school education performance � have fallen. And they reflect the same finding as our own figures on literacy and numeracy." For a useful (if rather annoyingly simplistic and superficial) "fact check" of Dugdale's claims about the attainment gap, The Ferret did a short write up.

So, basically, all politicians are very clear that something needs to be done. As they always are. A quick and simple way to do something, and one that benefits from having a number (politicians, the press and the public like numbers, even if they don't often care what they mean) is to increase the amount of teachers. More teachers = more teaching = more education innit?*

The Tories, being the Tories, think the best way to solve this is to cut out all that left-wing-inducing higher education and push people straight into work, as outlined in this recent (18 May) press release: Sturgeon must embrace Teach First to address teacher shortage:

quote:

Nicola Sturgeon must introduce the successful scheme which fast tracks talented graduates into schools to address Scotland�s recruitment crisis, Ruth Davidson has said.

The Scottish Conservative leader pointed to figures showing 400 graduates who�d studied in Scotland were now teaching elsewhere in the UK thanks to the Teach First initiative.

At First Minister�s Questions, she added versions of the scheme were operating in 40 countries across the world but, thanks to SNP decisions, not in Scotland.

However, Ms Sturgeon refused to commit to implementing Teach First north of the border, saying she�d been talked out of it by a teacher on a visit to London.

That�s the same reason she outlined 18 months ago in the Scottish Parliament, sparking accusations that she�s done nothing since to remedy Scotland�s teacher shortage.

Latest figures show there are 4000 fewer teachers in schools than when the SNP came to power in 2007, while 70 per cent of schools say they can�t offer s4 pupils the choice of subjects they want.

Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson said:

�Everyone accepts that there aren�t enough teachers in Scotland.

�But for reasons known only to herself, Nicola Sturgeon repeatedly refuses to implement the successful Teach First scheme.

�Hundreds of bright graduates from Scottish universities are now teaching elsewhere in the UK thanks to this initiative.

�Dozens of countries elsewhere in the world successfully use versions of this project to make sure there are enough teachers in schools.

�Yet the SNP sits on its hands. The First Minister gave me the same answers today as she did 18 months ago, and that�s not good enough.

�The reality is Nicola Sturgeon has presided over a teacher recruitment crisis.

�She�s fallen asleep at the wheel on education, the response to bad test results is to take schools out the tests altogether, and when good ideas like Teach First come forward, she inexplicably knocks them back.

�It�s not enough for her just to admit these mistakes in teacher recruitment � she has to act on them too.�

I suspect that this is also an attempt to undermine teaching unions, but that's purely a cynical guess - I've no stats on whether Teach First teachers are more or less likely to join a union. The main point of worry though, at least for me, is the way it seems like a deliberate move to devalue teaching as a qualification, something to be studied and having critical theory related to it, suggesting that learning about pedagogy is a kind of woolly, liberal, elitist affectation. And, for what it's worth, anyone I've known who's done Teach First thinks that they're a lovely organisation who provide little to no support, and rely entirely on the (generally extremely stretched because almost always in "problem areas") placement schools/teachers to do all the work. So it's just as well that this is an Tory idea that the SNP would nev--- oh....

quote:

TES: New route into teaching in Scotland could bypass universities

Report predicts �profound� change to training, with the SNP mooting a version of Teach First
The Scottish government is �shortly� to tender for a new route into teaching that could open the way for initial teacher education to bypass universities, Tes Scotland can reveal.

Teach First � a fast-track route into teaching, long resisted in Scotland � will be able to tender for the new route, which will be aimed at attracting �high-quality graduates in priority areas and subjects�.

The development sheds further light on a pledge in the government�s delivery plan, published last June, which referred to �developing a new route� that would �build on the model developed in partnership with the University of Aberdeen to attract career changers to the profession�.

The move comes as a leading academic has shared findings with Tes Scotland, which conclude that university-based training gives teachers the �critical edge� they need to succeed in the classroom.

The research, by Ian Menter, commissioned by the Scottish Council of Deans of Education, is a sign that battle lines are being drawn ahead of a potentially significant shift in the way teacher education is delivered.

The emeritus professor of teacher education at the University of Oxford told Tes Scotland: �The university contribution provides the critical edge that 21st-century teachers desperately need in order to undertake their challenging work successfully.�

Looking at the routes
It would be �a tragedy� if Scotland were to introduce a route into teaching that bypassed universities, he said.

A Scottish government spokesperson said it was "essential" all teacher education routes were of the highest quality and any new routes would have to be accredited by the teaching watchdog, the General Teaching Council for Scotland. However, she added that the tender for the new route into teaching would be open to more than just the universities. She said: �The tender will be open not just to universities, but to organisations capable of delivering high-quality teacher education experiences.�

The SNP government has indicated on a number of occasions that it is interested in new routes into teaching �specifically designed to attract high quality graduates into priority areas and subjects�, prompting speculation that it might introduce a Scottish version of Teach First.

Teach First recruits receive university input for five weeks before they begin working in schools, where they deliver 80 per cent of a teacher�s timetable and begin working towards the Postgraduate Diploma in Education over two years.

In recent weeks, Teach First has been a topic of discussion at the education committee�s inquiry into workforce planning, as well as at First Minister�s Questions.

Aiming high
Meanwhile, also during the education committee inquiry, the schools of education have come under criticism over the content of their teacher education courses.

But Dr Rowena Arshad, head of the University of Edinburgh�s school of education, told Tes Scotland the aim should be for more highly qualified teachers and an emulation of the Finnish model of a master�s-level profession in order to create �critical professionals able to adapt to complexity and diverse circumstances�.

* I mean, I'm not against more teachers, obviously, but some more imaginative policy beyond "have more" (by reducing the training time) would be nice.

Niric fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Jun 2, 2017

# ? Jun 2, 2017 10:16

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

Cat Mattress posted:

Are the Scottish nationalists using the "Only the SNP can stop the Tories" slogan?

For those interested here's the what the leafleting in Glasgow looks like

Really depressing that the headline on all three is only x can beat y rather than any policy

# ? Jun 3, 2017 15:42

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Wow, the Tory one actually says clearly CONSERVATIVE AND UNIONIST PARTY on the front? The one here was along the lines of "Ruth Davidson's Party" in the headline text. Which I thought was a bit odd considering Ruth has gently caress all to do with Westminster but so it goes.

# ? Jun 3, 2017 15:56

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

forkboy84 posted:

Wow, the Tory one actually says clearly CONSERVATIVE AND UNIONIST PARTY on the front? The one here was along the lines of "Ruth Davidson's Party" in the headline text. Which I thought was a bit odd considering Ruth has gently caress all to do with Westminster but so it goes.

Do they have a chance in your ward ? Wondering if they are happy to print it in Glasgow because they have 0 prospect of doing anything

# ? Jun 3, 2017 16:21

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

jre posted:

Do they have a chance in your ward ? Wondering if they are happy to print it in Glasgow because they have 0 prospect of doing anything

I don't think they have a chance of unseating the SNP, but they should come 2nd and get at least 1/3rd of the vote if national swing trends are anywhere close to true. So they probably are taking it more seriously than a more urban seat.

# ? Jun 3, 2017 17:11

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Coohoolin posted:

If we can do this well with *those bastards* holding us back, imagine how amazing we'd be on our own?

It's impossible to have an independence movement without civil and social discontent. Independence is a step into the unknown. If things are bad you may take the risk in the hope that they'll get good because you have little to lose, but if things are good you're not going to take the risk that they might get bad on the off chance they may get even better.

# ? Jun 3, 2017 18:48

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Scotland only poll shows the SNP still dropping.

https://twitter.com/scotelects/status/871280887668899841

# ? Jun 4, 2017 09:30

KOGAHAZAN!!: Apr 29, 2013; a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Did Survation really have SLab on 17% at some point? Eesh.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 10:18

cargohills: Apr 18, 2014

The Tories are as close to the SNP in Scotland as Labour were to the Tories in the whole of the UK not that long ago.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 10:43

KOGAHAZAN!!: Apr 29, 2013; a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Insanely positive campaigning experience at the Meadows Festival today. Lots of really strong positivity for the Labour Party in general and for Corbyn in particular. People taking posters, stickers, leaflets by the handful. At absolute worst people are saying they love Jeremy and would vote Labour in England- but are voting SNP up here ( :argh:

)

I have never seen the voting public so happy to see us.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 13:34

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

Autonomous Monster posted:

. At absolute worst people are saying they love Jeremy and would vote Labour in England- but are voting SNP up here ()

While labour have been shite for the last decade or so, I don't understand how anyone who claims to be a lefty can not vote for a party who are wanting to renationalise industry and increase public sector pay.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 15:24

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 01:46

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Well, some people will probably be tactically voting in seats where the Tories are competitive, so there's that.

I'm still prevaricating a bit myself because the parliamentary party has had a big say in how the party is run, and if Corbyn does not win super big can I really trust my local labour candidate who I've never heard of not to go full Liz Kendall Now on us. Which isn't exactly something one can ask a prospective candidate before an election and expect an honest or meaningful answer.

# ? Jun 4, 2017 15:51

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