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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:And yet somehow when I say "gently caress you" to you that's the crime of the century. I'm sorry, TB, I didn't intend to make you feel this way. However, one of the current stated rules in PYF is to be civil to one another, which I don't think is too absurd to ask for.
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Jun 1, 2017 00:46
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Captain Monkey posted:Oh no they'd only make 2 billion in profits. $2 billion in profits that suddenly turns into losing money if 5% less people buy tickets in a year or the price of oil goes up 10%. How confident would you be in your business's sales not changing by 5% in a year or oil prices don't change more than 10%?
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Jun 1, 2017 00:46
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:The busiest domestic airline route in America is Chicago <-> NY. A round-trip flight is currently $147 for economy and $315 for premium economy. More than doubling the price for an extra couple of inches of legroom. Business class is $417, which is more than many Americans gross in a week. Oh no. You do realize those pricey  $417 dollar seats are partly the reason why the cheaper seats only cost $147. Airlines can compete on price for cheaper tickets if they make up that lost money on business and first class seats. The flying rich are subsidizing the flying poor in this case.
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Jun 1, 2017 00:50
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:I'm sorry, TB, I didn't intend to make you feel this way. However, one of the current stated rules in PYF is to be civil to one another, which I don't think is too absurd to ask for. Requiring civility but not decency is how we got the alt-right. Krispy Kareem posted:Oh no. My kingdom to anyone who can find a use of "you do realize" that isn't paint-peeling douchebaggery. You are intentionally missing the point. gently caress civility and gently caress you. I hope you get poor and die in the gutter with all your "you do realize"s echoing in your ears.
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Jun 1, 2017 00:50
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Jun 1, 2017 00:53
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Requiring civility but not decency is how we got the alt-right. Are you accusing PYF of the creation of the alt - right? Cause that's kind of a bold claim, even for you.
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Jun 1, 2017 00:54
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spog posted:Are you accusing PYF of the creation of the alt - right? Man, if that's the case, I really screwed up somewhere down the line
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Jun 1, 2017 00:56
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spog posted:Are you accusing PYF of the creation of the alt - right? I'm observing, quite correctly, that milquetoast handwringingers will always prioritize comfortable cruelty over uncomfortable honesty. We've got shitheads lining up around the block here to say "gently caress the poor, gently caress the very idea of even asking me to think that the poor exist," and that's all perfectly fine, great content! As long as nobody says "gently caress you" back. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 1, 2017 00:57
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Literally everything Tiny Brontosaurus is saying is right and good, actually.
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Jun 1, 2017 00:58
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Man, if that's the case, I really screwed up somewhere down the line There's no opinion so odious the mods here won't let slide as long as the post doesn't have any swears in it.
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Jun 1, 2017 00:58
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:There's no opinion so odious the mods here won't let slide as long as the post doesn't have any swears in it. free tiny brontosaurus
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Jun 1, 2017 00:59
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Speaking of airlines and marketing, Delta does some good stuff with their in-flight safety videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMUCSHWgquM Tiny Brontosaurus posted:There's no opinion so odious the mods here won't let slide as long as the post doesn't have any swears in it. loving A.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:09
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I'm observing, quite correctly, that milquetoast handwringingers will always prioritize comfortable cruelty over uncomfortable honesty. We've got shitheads lining up around the block here to say "gently caress the poor, gently caress the very idea of even asking me to think that the poor exist," and that's all perfectly fine, great content! As long as nobody says "gently caress you" back. I know there were warnings and its only a six-hour but uh Kinda sucks how this statement was proven true through mod action. Maybe this just isn't the forum/thread for me or other struggling poors.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:13
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purple death ray posted:Literally everything Tiny Brontosaurus is saying is right and good, actually. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:There's no opinion so odious the mods here won't let slide as long as the post doesn't have any swears in it. more like somethingsensitive~*
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Jun 1, 2017 01:13
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:There's no opinion so odious the mods here won't let slide as long as the post doesn't have any swears in it. I'm sorry that you feel this way. I do not claim to be a perfect person: I do my best to assist in moderating a forum of many hundreds of people that have many, often very fiery, conflicts of opinion. I understand why you might think that we purposely tolerate odious opinions, but that has never been our intention (and, if one were to observe naysayers, one might come to the conclusion that PYF is an equally odious left-leaning echo chamber). Most often, the reason that a lovely opinion does not earn its poster a probation is simply that it isn't reported, and try as we might, blunt and I simply can't be alert to every post in every thread every day. Racism, sexism, trans- or homophobia, and things of those ilk are never tolerated when we can help it. If you'd like to discuss this further you're more than welcome to PM me. Similarly, should you come across something troubling or inappropriate within PYF and you feel as though the report system is not adequate, both blunt for century and I are more than happy to assist you if you are to contact us.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:14
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Peanut Butler posted:I know there were warnings and its only a six-hour but uh I feel as though I have been extremely polite through this whole thing, but I am pretty offended that you're assuming I'm not also a "struggling poor." I just spent three years putting myself through school to work in a health professions career that will never, ever, put me into the upper middle class, so you can take this opinion and go home with it.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:16
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:I'm sorry that you feel this way. I do not claim to be a perfect person: I do my best to assist in moderating a forum of many hundreds of people that have many, often very fiery, conflicts of opinion. I understand why you might think that we purposely tolerate odious opinions, but that has never been our intention (and, if one were to observe naysayers, one might come to the conclusion that PYF is an equally odious left-leaning echo chamber). Most often, the reason that a lovely opinion does not earn its poster a probation is simply that it isn't reported, and try as we might, blunt and I simply can't be alert to every post in every thread every day. Racism, sexism, trans- or homophobia, and things of those ilk are never tolerated when we can help it.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:23
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:There's no opinion so odious the mods here won't let slide as long as the post doesn't have any swears in it. I loving swear and insult people all the time you goddamn moron. I even agreed with what you were saying but holy poo poo shut uppppppppppppppp.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:28
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Because I'd rather not devolve once again into the slapfighting that was just taking place. If everybody can remain civil, by all means, the conversation can continue. Noted. I will refrain from uncivility. Xen Tricks posted:I mean they could just take, Idk, one row of seats out of the plane and charge the same but you're right that would cut into their two billion dollar profit which is totally unacceptable I know First, you can't just take one row of seats out of the plane. Then you'd have six seats with a massive gap and 169 seats with the same dimensions. Rearranging all the seats in their entire fleet would in fact be a huge undertaking that would likely send the company into bankruptcy. Second, even if you do it with just future planes going forward, that's not going to change legroom very much. One of Southwest's 738s has 175 seats in 30 rows. Turning that into 29 rows doesn't spread things out by all that much. And in exchange for that, Southwest fills a plane up six seats sooner. They have 725 planes, fly each one an average of 6 flights per day, at a load factor of 85%. Yes, that would probably utterly eliminate their profit. And again, that two billion figure was their all-time record year. Captain Monkey posted:Oh no they'd only make 2 billion in profits. An amount of money that would be wiped out instantly by a small rise in oil prices. Profit *margin* is what matters if you're proposing a significant increase in operating costs (because you're supposed to carry the same amount of passengers with fewer seats per plane which means you need to operate more planes) *without* a corresponding increase in revenues (because you're not supposed to charge more per seat because you're supposed to be doing this in an affordable fashion that doesn't price people out of the market). And airlines historically operate on very thin margins precisely because it's such a competitive market; all through the 80s and 90s and 00s the profit margin for *profitable* airlines hovered around 1%, maybe 1.5%, with 2% being an exceptionally strong performance. 2015, 2016, and 2017 have been the best three years in history; profit margins for 2017 are forecast to be around 4.1%. This is a business type where the amounts of money being thrown around in revenues and expenditures are enormous, but the *margins* are razor-thin. What do all the airlines on this list have in common? Braniff Continental Frontier Eastern Pinnacle Air Canada Republic Northwest Delta PanAm Midway Southeast Transmeridian Aloha Evergreen America West US Airways United Those are all airlines, *big* airlines, that have declared bankruptcy. If I were to include the smaller ones the list would run into the hundreds. It's a fiercely competitive market, partly because the customers are so price-sensitive, and changes like you're proposing would send most of them right back into Chapters 11 or 7. Xen Tricks posted:I think we're all missing the point here that an industry that is required to maintain a miserable status quo to even manage to stay afloat miiiiiight not be a sustainable business. Just a thought It's demonstrably sustainable, it's been around for 100 years and it's not going anywhere and safety and the number of people flying and the number of passenger miles flown are at all-time highs and keep going. More and more people, including poor people, are able to take flights they wouldn't have been able to take even decades ago, because all those efficiencies *are* really being passed along to the consumer. It's so competitive that it's very hard for one of the corporations to turn a profit, but that doesn't mean the industry's unsustainable. It's hard to *make money* at it. But the family saving for a trip to Disneyworld, it's not their responsibility to make it easy for the airline to make money. Look at gas stations. Insanely competitive. You can have four of them on a single intersection and they all have to price exactly the same, because if one charges 1/10th of a cent more per gallon than the others his lot will empty out while everyone switches to his competitors. They used to offer all kinds of services (Full service gas, check your oil, wash your windows), but that stuff all went away because all people really cared about was the price/gallon and most of them won't go to a full service gas station if they have to pay a thin penny more per gallon. So now there's none of that stuff, and you have to pump your own gas and scrape the dead bugs off the windshield yourself. Gas stations go out of business and change ownership every single day. Do you ever miss one? Is the gas station business unsustainable? quote:also how is it that Ryanair or some other econo liner in Europe can offer a 2 hr flight or so for 20 euro in the same conditions that United would charge $200+ for? Partly prices that low are loss-leaders, same thing like the cheap TVs offered for sale on Black Friday, the vast majority of fares aren't that low. Those are for specific flights on specific days at specific times for specific routes, and it's better to put someone in a seat for an amount that covers the marginal fuel cost than it is to fly it as an empty seat, *and* that's a one-way price. Mainly, Ryanair bases far more things on fees than even current American carriers do. For instance, that 20 euro ticket? That's for the seat right next to the toilet, if you want a nicer seat there's a 2-euro fee for what they call a "standard" seat (By which I mean, if you want to select your own seat at all, there's a fee for that, you get the base price without fees only if you let them assign you a seat). You *have* to check in on-line and print out your boarding pass. *Have* to. Don't check in until you get to the airport? 50 euros. Plus another 15 euros to print your boarding pass. And if you did check in online and print out your boarding pass, they have been known to reject it and charge you a fee to print out a new one if you did something like, oh, turn the printer off early to avoid wasting your ink printing out the sponsored ad that takes up half the page. How well do you think all that would go over with the AARP, or people who don't own a computer and a printer? Oh, and if you get your name wrong (Like, your passport says "Steven" but you input your name as "Steve"), they'll charge you a *160 euro* name-change fee. Ryanair has the lowest luggage allowance I've ever heard of, and the highest luggage fees. And they are dead serious about the dimensions they'll allow for carryons, those dimensions are just a *wee bit smaller* than other airlines. That means the "carryon size" bag you bought to fly on EasyJet won't fit in the Ryanair overhead and they'll charge you 100 euros. Take a look at their fee schedule. And hope you don't wind up needing therapeutic oxygen! (50 euros): https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful-info/help-centre/terms-and-conditions/termsandconditionsar_1713394128 Ryanair's the airline that seriously suggested standing-room-only spaces on planes. The civil aviation authorities made noises at them that sounded like "No loving way," so they pretended like it was just a joke, but it was a serious proposal. So that's how they make a go out of their low fares. Phanatic has a new favorite as of 01:56 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 01:33
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I will gladly ban all the alt-right fuckers that post in PYF, we just don't always see the stuff they post. BIRD and I are both busy as hell in the real world, and can't be on top of every thread all the time, so reports seriously help.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:34
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On the one hand TB is right. Lots of horrible opinions and pathological goon assholes are allowed to stink up the place permanently because ??? On the other hand, gently caress TB, she is one of tolerated assholes and every thread she posts in is worse because of it.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:38
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Chill Nazi Frog posted:On the other hand, gently caress TB, she is one of tolerated assholes and every thread she posts in is worse because of it. Except the tub renovation thread.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:13
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Olive Garden tonight! posted:Except the tub renovation thread. Well yah I mean obviously, tb is THE tub girl.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:17
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As for dumb marketing moves, didn't united kill a giant snake or something.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:24
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I thought it was a bunny, or did they also kill a snake?
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Jun 1, 2017 02:27
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Bunny. Then they cremated it without the owner's permission. Probably to try hide the fact that it died because they stuck it somewhere where it froze to death.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:42
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Patrick Spens posted:I thought it was a bunny, or did they also kill a snake? Snake choked on the bunny.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:43
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Or to hide the fact that it was actually eaten by a giant sky snake. 
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Jun 1, 2017 02:43
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blunt for century posted:I will gladly ban all the alt-right fuckers that post in PYF, we just don't always see the stuff they post. BIRD and I are both busy as hell in the real world, and can't be on top of every thread all the time, so reports seriously help. Well, there is a thread stickied for making fun of people who report wrong, so I dunno how encouraged people are to report posts, especially if it's something that's borderline or dogwhistly.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:58
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Brainiac Five posted:Well, there is a thread stickied for making fun of people who report wrong, so I dunno how encouraged people are to report posts, especially if it's something that's borderline or dogwhistly. In the mods' defense that came about because people were filing profoundly stupid reports. There's a pretty big difference between "well this is kind of a grey area but this person has a history of pushing it" and "this poster I don't like posted a joke that I didn't find funny." Like seriously...look at the posts reported in that post. Look at them. They're so far out of the grey area of "might be bad" that I can't even look directly at them.
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Jun 1, 2017 03:06
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Brainiac Five posted:Well, there is a thread stickied for making fun of people who report wrong, so I dunno how encouraged people are to report posts, especially if it's something that's borderline or dogwhistly. If you think a post is dogwhistly at all, it should be reported. Most of the things in the dumb reports thread are really really dumb, and reporting racism, sexism, transphobia, is always a good idea and should be done 100% of the time. There are plenty of forums online for people who want to shout their hate, they don't need this one too.
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Jun 1, 2017 03:07
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The New York Times has like 5 different think pieces about covfefe like c'mon guys
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Jun 1, 2017 03:11
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How about the total opposite of dumb marketing moves? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHSSdYTWAKg
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Jun 1, 2017 03:22
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:more like somethingsensitive~* skullmund
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Jun 1, 2017 04:01
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Xen Tricks posted:also how is it that Ryanair or some other econo liner in Europe can offer a 2 hr flight or so for 20 euro in the same conditions that United would charge $200+ for? Good video on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=069y1MpOkQY
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Jun 1, 2017 04:11
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food court bailiff posted:I loving swear and insult people all the time you goddamn moron. I even agreed with what you were saying but holy poo poo shut uppppppppppppppp. Yea, like I just like arguing on the internet but man, TB is not helping convince anyone the poor are not just whiny idiots with no idea how the world works. Income inequality and the pretty thin profit margins of airlines can both be true!
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Jun 1, 2017 04:32
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I am roughly as lefty socialist hippy as they come, but insofar as the system in which we exist is a capitalist one I can at least recognise that market forces are a thing and they do appear to be working more or less correctly in the aviation sector. In fact it's one of the few sectors in which the classical models actually do work correctly. Lots of competition, relatively low barriers to entry, an extremely price sensitive customer, and a largely undifferentiated product.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:37
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Airlines are bad, and have bad problems – and NOT good ones – imo. You do realise that if you tried having more money, things would be a lot easier?
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Jun 1, 2017 05:09
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e: nvm
ChickenOfTomorrow has a new favorite as of 05:44 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 05:23
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:I feel as though I have been extremely polite through this whole thing, but I am pretty offended that you're assuming I'm not also a "struggling poor." I just spent three years putting myself through school to work in a health professions career that will never, ever, put me into the upper middle class, so you can take this opinion and go home with it. oh; sincerely sorry- I was in a sad/mad place unrelated to the thread, dealing with a surprise gas shutoff when I posted that. I didn't mean to imply that you live outside of that experience, but its clear that I did, and I regret that. You have been extremely polite and in fact an avatar for politeness and fun in a den of bitter internet dwellers! I still think there is something to be said for valuing something compassionate-but-rude over something hurtful-but-polite- but that's not a discussion for here or really anywhere outside of QCS
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Jun 1, 2017 06:16
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