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John Smith posted:So, shall I take it as a heartfelt general feeling that CitizenKain is indeed full of poo poo? And that I was indeed right that the trust *can* be structured accordingly, albeit at significant but necessary expense.  John Smith posted:If it was indeed properly structured, then seems to me that your dad simply couldn't be bothered despite his promise to his dead brother. If you are not willing to eat a lot of poo poo, then you shouldn't promise to eat a lot of poo poo. His brother would at least then have the option of trying to find an alternative. You are claiming this person's dad simply couldn't be bothered to try, despite him at least a year doing so. At some point she threatened to sue him. What was he supposed to do? You think she would have gone for that? I know normal human interactions are confusing to you, but figure it out. I feel bad for anyone who has to know you personally.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:40
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oh my god shut up and take your slapfight elsewhere
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Jun 1, 2017 01:43
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So here's a thing that I think is bad with money but maybe people will disagree. People with the means to do so, refusing to setup 529 college funds for their kids because "nah, they can pay for it on their own." I've run into two people this past week who have said that despite having the wealth and the means to do so, they won't because they see it as a waste. 
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Jun 1, 2017 02:26
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On the one hand, keeping the kids motivated, but on the other, it's an easy generational wealth transfer you dolts! You'll pay lawyers and accountants piles of money later to transfer money down the family tree that easily, especially if they start early!
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Jun 1, 2017 02:29
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The Millionaire Next Door - one of the best personal finance books in my opinion, especially because it focuses in laser close on spending - makes a really compelling case that paying for the best school your kids can get into is a really great way of keeping your family wealthy over generations. Forcing your kids to "BOOTSTRAPS!" all over again because you're too cheap to save for their education seems to me to be a decidedly counterproductive way to ensure success for your children, your grandchildren and beyond.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:34
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antiga posted:Sounds like Dad wouldn't get to deduct the HELOC interest (that he's not actually paying himself and probably is not eligible to deduct) anymore so that could be why he's opposing it. I doubt its malice, just ignorance of good financial practice. My dad also invests in individual stocks with HELOC money for example. There is no my sister has the physical deed, and I think everything is in my dad's name. He would also (grudgingly for sure) pay her rent/mortgage for her if she lost her job or something.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:41
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:The Millionaire Next Door - one of the best personal finance books in my opinion, especially because it focuses in laser close on spending - makes a really compelling case that paying for the best school your kids can get into is a really great way of keeping your family wealthy over generations. Forcing your kids to "BOOTSTRAPS!" all over again because you're too cheap to save for their education seems to me to be a decidedly counterproductive way to ensure success for your children, your grandchildren and beyond. This influenced my dad to help pay for mine! Thank you, tmnd! Related content, my dad's friend did not choose this route despite earning a good salary and forced his daughter to pay for herself, which actually meant his wife got a job to pay for their daughter's school. The bwm part was her getting an education degree but giving up searching for a teaching job after two months and then settling into a middling insurance billing job for the next 7 years and counting.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:44
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Plus prestigious schools increase the odds of the ultimate GWM, marrying up!
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Jun 1, 2017 02:46
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lol taking out a loan for university is now "bootstraps"? has the word lost all meaning now? anyway im a fan of the hands off safety net style, for university at least (grade school is a different issue and the responsibility there is entirely with the parents obviously). and you're always there to catch them if they run into bad luck like medical issues or whatever.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:49
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crazypeltast52 posted:On the one hand, keeping the kids motivated, but on the other, it's an easy generational wealth transfer you dolts! You'll pay lawyers and accountants piles of money later to transfer money down the family tree that easily, especially if they start early! The ironic thing is one of these people comes from a wealthy family and has a sizeable nest egg themselves. Their parents also paid for both their BA and MA degrees (as well as the BA/MA and PHD for three other kids), but they still think this is the best route. However, they seem to think that when their parents pass on their wealth, that they are going to get more of it because of "grandchildren". Despite the fact they've been told several times, that the estate is being split up evenly between each sibling, and no one is going to get more just because they have kids. I'm so glad I won't have to deal with any of this poo poo (with my family at least).
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Jun 1, 2017 02:49
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Financing a second property with a heloc can be good with money if you can afford it. It keeps the payments down and if he is declaring the rental income and it is anywhere in the neighborhood of market rent he can write off the interest and maintenance costs. Is the house ultimately going to belong to your dad as an investment or to your sister as her home? By keeping the monthly payment low he can make it more feasible to keep umtil renting to someone else or until she can afford a regular payment.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:54
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Zo posted:lol taking out a loan for university is now "bootstraps"? has the word lost all meaning now? NOT paying for a 529 if you have the money to do so is bad with money and selfish. Here's why - you're taking after tax dollars at 2017 value and compounding them for however many years before bequeathing them to your progeny. If the market returns a fair price for your tolerance of risk, you'll earn the tax you paid on these dollars off and many more. Your child gets this money to attend a prestigious institution of higher learning - among the highest ROI activities a young person can undertake - without subjecting them to crippling amounts of debt which will compound at very similar rates of interest to the investment you made when they were tiny tots! The money they'll have to use to pay off this debt is after tax dollars in 2037-2052 or whatever, and won't have been compounded by a 20 year bath in the market before being used (tax free!) to pay for education! Like what part of this sounds like a good idea to you? I understand if you're too poor to fund a 529 - it's not the top of anyone's list of "needs" for example. Food, water, shelter, I get it. But to treat it as optional if you're going to have children and want them to do well is insanely backwards to me. Real meaningful wealth probably includes the ability to pay for your kids to have a better chance at success than you did, and that includes the halls of the Ivy League. EAT FASTER!!!!!! fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 03:07
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Handsome Ralph posted:So here's a thing that I think is bad with money but maybe people will disagree. I keep telling family and friends to do 529 plans and as far as I can tell no one has ever taken my advice. And to a person, they start getting that panicked look in their eyes around their kid's junior year. None of those people actually went to college, so their choices, while stupid, are at least consistent. But gently caress anyone who went to college that doesn't at least try to help their kids. I paid for my college working so many minimum wage jobs, I didn't get laid for years. Bootstraps suck.
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Jun 1, 2017 03:09
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529 plans are awesome, but what if your 4-year-old daughter needs tumbling lessons, tumbling gear, and designer doll outfits?Uterine Lineup posted:BWM Bingo Alert: Family members involved in MLM scheme I don't endorse the snake oil product or the disgraceful behavior of those women, but gut health is pretty drat important to more than just your digestion.
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Jun 1, 2017 03:14
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Krispy Kareem posted:I keep telling family and friends to do 529 plans and as far as I can tell no one has ever taken my advice. Yeah, one of the people in this situation might be in a place where they can't really afford to, or at least they think it's pointless cause all they could throw in is like 50 bucks a month at most. They also didn't get a degree beyond an associate's with some tech certs (that work paid for), so I can chalk it up to either inexperience in how expensive it really is or just being stretched financially right now (that's a whole other BWM post). The other got a degree in English then decided to be a veterinarian. Their parents paid for both degrees. That whole situation is going to be a massive shitshow in 15 years. Sooner if their parents both die before then and they realize their parents weren't kidding about each kid getting an equal share of the estate regardless of grandchildren.
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Jun 1, 2017 03:20
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Zo posted:lol taking out a loan for university is now "bootstraps"? has the word lost all meaning now? This is probably true to some extent, my wife got zero help from her parents but had infinitely more work ethic than I do at least partially because of it. I dunno we're definitely opening a 529 very soon for our daughter and piling some money into it.
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Jun 1, 2017 03:22
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Krispy Kareem posted:I keep telling family and friends to do 529 plans and as far as I can tell no one has ever taken my advice. If you have lots of family and friends who are in a position to save more than $47,000 a year post tax then saving in a 529 is great advice, otherwise most normal people can't really afford a 529 and it is generally a mistake to fund a 529 before maxing household 401k and IRA limits. For the most part 529 plans are a nice bonus for people who can already pretty much afford college for their kids.
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Jun 1, 2017 03:38
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The way I see it, if they get into a top tier school like Harvard or MIT then the savings don't matter too much, because those schools have tons of financial aid and the kid is going to make way more than I ever will anyway so some debt won't hurt. If you don't get into a school like that then you may as well go to a state school where the costs are manageable and scholarships are common. If they insist on going to a private college then that's on them and I wouldn't blame any parent for not contributing to that boondoggle.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:01
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OctaviusBeaver posted:The way I see it, if they get into a top tier school like Harvard or MIT then the savings don't matter too much, because those schools have tons of financial aid and the kid is going to make way more than I ever will anyway so some debt won't hurt. If you don't get into a school like that then you may as well go to a state school where the costs are manageable and scholarships are common. If they insist on going to a private college then that's on them and I wouldn't blame any parent for not contributing to that boondoggle. Actually I think that any education savings plan (i.e. 529 plans) that primarily benefits wealthy high net worth savers and is therefore more likely to be spent on prestigious private secondary and post secondary schools is will have the net effect of driving up private school tuitions and making them less affordable. It's probably bad policy despite good intentions.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:12
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:NOT paying for a 529 if you have the money to do so is bad with money and selfish. I'd rather raise a good person than a rich person, but of course that's a false dilemma you're presenting in the first place. if somebody can get into an ivy, loans are not going to stop them. i also like the "crippling" comment. what is it about loans that you think is inherently crippling? do your legs spontaneously shatter when you take out a mortgage?
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Jun 1, 2017 04:15
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Crippling maybe isn't the correct word to use but certainly graduating college with the sticker price $250k+ of student loan debt to attend a high priced private school will change one's career outlook significantly. For example public sector or even volunteer work that is widely considered to be of great value to society is a lot less appealing with Navient sending you a six figure student loan statement every month.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:26
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edit: you know what this is a derail I don't think we need to be having. I think not funding a 529 if you can afford it is bad with money, and we don't really need to bicker about it.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:37
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yeah there's not much to bicker about anyway, you raise your kids how you want on another topic, the guy from many pages ago who was thinking about buying an empty lot came out of it shockingly gwm quote:Hello all!
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Jun 1, 2017 04:50
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That's a pretty good deal, although i take exception to calling something a three year lease when there is a 60 day mutual termination option. There better be some tenant rep comission in there for the dude's broker though, talk about legwork!
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Jun 1, 2017 04:59
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Does anyone have the link for that "500k is just scraping by" article from the last thread? I need it for another thread.
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Jun 1, 2017 06:54
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crazypeltast52 posted:That's a pretty good deal, although i take exception to calling something a three year lease when there is a 60 day mutual termination option. There better be some tenant rep comission in there for the dude's broker though, talk about legwork! Well you know real estate agents have worked very hard to make one month's rent a standard fee for leasing, so here you go *slides dollar across the table*
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Jun 1, 2017 12:44
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:The Millionaire Next Door - one of the best personal finance books in my opinion, especially because it focuses in laser close on spending - makes a really compelling case that paying for the best school your kids can get into is a really great way of keeping your family wealthy over generations. Forcing your kids to "BOOTSTRAPS!" all over again because you're too cheap to save for their education seems to me to be a decidedly counterproductive way to ensure success for your children, your grandchildren and beyond. Yeah rich people have been insulating themselves from failure for generations through networking at ivy league schools, if you can get in on that you don't even need a trust fund.
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Jun 1, 2017 13:13
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:The Millionaire Next Door - one of the best personal finance books in my opinion, especially because it focuses in laser close on spending - makes a really compelling case that paying for the best school your kids can get into is a really great way of keeping your family wealthy over generations. Forcing your kids to "BOOTSTRAPS!" all over again because you're too cheap to save for their education seems to me to be a decidedly counterproductive way to ensure success for your children, your grandchildren and beyond. This presupposes that generational wealth and classism is a good thing. I don't think your kids or my kids deserve a better shot than children of poor parents even if they don't work for it but hey that's me. Bootstraps is a funny thing to quote because it's used by the rich to say the poor should work harder. If the rich didn't transfer wealth and opportunity to their children, a true meritocracy would actually be possible. Just pretend I derail birded myself. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 13:21
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Real meaningful wealth probably includes the ability to pay for your kids to have a better chance at success than you did, and that includes the halls of the Ivy League. Looking at 20-year ROI including financial aid, using their actual salary data, Payscale doesn't have an Ivy League school in the top 10 http://www.payscale.com/college-roi BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:Actually I think that any education savings plan (i.e. 529 plans) that primarily benefits wealthy high net worth savers and is therefore more likely to be spent on prestigious private secondary and post secondary schools is will have the net effect of driving up private school tuitions and making them less affordable. It's probably bad policy despite good intentions. You definitely want to soak the very rich students, including those from overseas, but only if you can offset that for poorer students. That's why sticker price is sky-high but actual costs are much lower at many top universities. For Harvard, sticker price is $63k including room and board, but the average student pays only $12k per year, and anyone whose family makes under $65k/year pays nothing. So even if there were a calculation about how much the wealthy can pay and these 529s had a meaningful impact, it wouldn't have a big impact on driving up real tuition for working class people. The main thing keeping high-performing, low-income students away from top universities is ignorance about the process and opportunities, which is clearly not their fault but is hard to fight. Of course you're right that it's bad policy in general to have more tax breaks primarily used/usable by the wealthy, simply because it's regressive. The money would be far better spent investing in state universities. States clawing back their support for public universities (because baby boomers are sociopaths) is the #1 reason by a mile that tuitions and student debt are up so much. Academician Nomad fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 13:23
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Academician Nomad posted:(because baby boomers are sociopaths) This will be the copy/paste used all over the place 1,000 years from now when archaeologists are trying to figure out what the gently caress happened Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 13:32
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Pryor on Fire posted:This will be the copy/paste used all over the place 1,000 years from now when archaeologists are trying to figure out what the gently caress happened The only possible advantage to 8 years of Donald Trump would be him as the last Baby Boomer President.
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Jun 1, 2017 13:38
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Krispy Kareem posted:The only possible advantage to 8 years of Donald Trump would be him as the last Baby Boomer President. Not a bad trade off all things considered.
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Jun 1, 2017 14:08
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Academician Nomad posted:Tuition is only one of their funding sources though, and raising tuition (without raising financial aid equally) makes the university less diverse and hurts ability to recruit the best students, and in general can knock you down on formalized prestige things like the US News rankings. Another thing that raises tuition (in small liberal arts colleges, specifically), is a keeping up with the Joneses idea that they need to remain in the same prestige class. If college A raises tuition then Colleges B and C will probably follow suit so that they seem to be in the same class. This primarily harms students who are in the gulf between "poor enough to get financial aid for nearly everything" and "Rich enough where it doesn't matter". The former is really a pretty small group because of the reasons you've mentioned, and the latter serves to increase cashflow to the school.
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Jun 1, 2017 14:14
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SCA Enthusiast posted:Another thing that raises tuition (in small liberal arts colleges, specifically), is a keeping up with the Joneses idea that they need to remain in the same prestige class. If college A raises tuition then Colleges B and C will probably follow suit so that they seem to be in the same class. This primarily harms students who are in the gulf between "poor enough to get financial aid for nearly everything" and "Rich enough where it doesn't matter". The former is really a pretty small group because of the reasons you've mentioned, and the latter serves to increase cashflow to the school. Back when public universities were treated like the mostly-public goods they are, even as late as 1990, places like UVA had in-state tuition of $700 and total cost (including room/board/etc.) of $5600. With inflation that would be about $10k per year, before any financial aid or grants. In comparison, actual costs at UVA today are about $30k/yr. If public universities (and community colleges, which are also super important, and trade schools which are important though overblown in today's "plumbers not philosophers" nonsense culture) were as cheap as they used to be, SLACs could remain a luxury good for those who can afford them.
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Jun 1, 2017 14:42
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Academician Nomad posted:Back when public universities were treated like the mostly-public goods they are, even as late as 1990
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Jun 1, 2017 15:11
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Horses: BWL, Canada so not as BWM and didn't cause a medical bankruptcy. http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-dog-honoured-as-purina-hero-after-rescuing-owner-arizona-desert-1.4139351
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Jun 1, 2017 15:26
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John Smith posted:Wasn't aware that in the 1990s, universities lacked the ability to exclude enrolling students and the marginal cost of another additional unit of consumption was zero. Man, things sure have changed now that these goods are rival and excludable. However, there has been a political / rhetorical shift over the past few decades (as boomers get further from their own educations) to pretend that a university education is a purely private good, benefiting only the recipient, and thus the recipient should be the only one who pays for it. It's dumb and bad economics.
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Jun 1, 2017 16:38
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We should probably just move this thread to D&D and be done with it. Why can't we just post hilarious BWM schadenfreude to laugh at? https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/6em3h0/i_make_great_money_but_i_am_broke/ quote:I am married with four kids and my wife stays at home. Despite making really good money, we find a way to spend more than we make each month. Does anyone have any suggestions for staying on a budget or managing money with a big family? I feel like we could not save a dollar if we tried. I should not feel this broke! Later in the thread: quote:9200 take home (after 8% 401k + 3% ESOP) $2500 on food per month with a stay at home parent, lol Paying for lawn service when you have 4 children, lol
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Jun 1, 2017 16:41
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Academician Nomad posted:However, there has been a political / rhetorical shift over the past few decades (as boomers get further from their own educations) to pretend that a university education is a purely private good, benefiting only the recipient, and thus the recipient should be the only one who pays for it. It's dumb and bad economics.  Nail Rat posted:Just pretend I derail birded myself.  "no last word" thread policy
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Jun 1, 2017 16:43
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monster on a stick posted:
No, I'm just saying I'm apologizing for the derail. It can continue, I should know better but I just couldn't help myself 
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Jun 1, 2017 16:48
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