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Roadhog feels horrendous on the PTR. It is so, so easy even for the squishiest characters to wiggle away after a hook combo, and now it's even harder to finish them once they pull out of point blank range, even with the fire rate increase. His previous "nerfs" always felt more like sidegrades, or felt like fair adjustments, this one feels like the character just doesn't work anymore.
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May 31, 2017 23:19
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The whole idea of Roadhog is that he's the tank who doesn't actively help his team, and doesn't need help from them either. If they're walking back on that, might as well play one of the tanks that does, you'd probably be more effective.
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May 31, 2017 23:20
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The hook combo honestly never made sense to me as an instakill attack; if it consistently one-shots people, what's even the point of the hook element? If it always gets the kill, then it might as well just be a deadly projectile that kills people on the spot without repositioning them first. It may take more rebalancing to keep him effective, but shifting the hook's focus from "this is my kill move" to "this is my tool to put enemies in a dangerous position" makes more sense to me.
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May 31, 2017 23:31
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Supercar Gautier posted:The hook combo honestly never made sense to me as an instakill attack; if it consistently one-shots people, what's even the point of the hook element? If it always gets the kill, then it might as well just be a deadly projectile that kills people on the spot without repositioning them first. Because it gave the rest of the hook-ee's team a window to counteract it by stunning Hog, bubbling the person who got hooked, knocking him out of position, even killing him if they could do so quickly enough. Depending on the precise range at which Hog hooked you it was even possible to save yourself since the duration of the stun would expire before a full-length hook would finish reeling you in. Plus the changes to how the hook works that just happened not too long ago actually did make it less of a guaranteed 1HKO unless you actually paid attention to where you were aiming based on which character you were hooking and it's extremely common for Hog players to hook, say, a Lucio or Ana and chunk but not kill them. The hook combo isn't the utterly mindless one-shot it's made out to be and it certainly isn't OP enough to warrant a dumpster-grade nerf like this.
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May 31, 2017 23:45
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The fact that the combo is not instant gives teammates and enemies time to respond to what's happening. Zarya can put up a hallelujah savior bubble to protect a friend as they get reeled in, D.va can paint hog with Defense Matrix to neuter the shotgun followup, boopers and stunners of all variety can disrupt hog. Hog's allies conversely could hear the distinctive hook sound and anticipate following action to assist if necessary. It makes for interesting gameplay opportunities where an instant kill on the spot obviously would provide none at all.
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May 31, 2017 23:49
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Kai Tave posted:The hook combo isn't the utterly mindless one-shot it's made out to be and it certainly isn't OP enough to warrant a dumpster-grade nerf like this. I didn't call it mindless. I just think there's a design contradiction if a move is designed to (1) pull you out of position and then (2) one-shot you, because (2) negates the utility of (1).
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May 31, 2017 23:51
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Supercar Gautier posted:I didn't call it mindless. I just think there's a design contradiction if a move is designed to (1) pull you out of position and then (2) one-shot you, because (2) negates the utility of (1). Except it doesn't, for the reasons Scoss describes. Getting hooked does not guarantee he'll get to shoot you to death; the utility of moving the enemy is that it serves as a fallback. Also that you can dunk people into holes which is better than killing them directly because, I mean, duh.
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May 31, 2017 23:54
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It also occasionally even backfires on Roadhog to hook certain characters up close to him. At one point hooking D.Va was a mixed bag for Roadhog because she was actually able to put a significant hurting on him if he did so despite D.Va being one of the easier characters to hit with the hook. Failing to kill a Mei after hooking her can also result in a similarly frustrating experience. Or drag an Ana in close and take a sleep dart to the face. All of which makes it a much more interesting ability than, say, scatter arrow.
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May 31, 2017 23:56
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I feel like anyone that claims the hook dragging someone to your team is good enough probably doesn't play a lot of roadhog because it's absolutely not and many heroes can easily get away if the hog himself doesn't deal with them on that first shot. not killing someone you hook can also blow up in your face big time (hook a genji, he gets bubbled, now he's at full health and next to the supports, thanks roadhog big help). it's absolutely not the surefire success that people seem to be implying it is
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May 31, 2017 23:57
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Manatee Cannon posted:I feel like anyone that claims the hook dragging someone to your team is good enough probably doesn't play a lot of roadhog it's that bias of being the frustrated hooked person without taking the lesson that you shouldn't have been caught with your mouth open
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Jun 1, 2017 00:57
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:How deadly is the typical hook combo now? Will Lucio be able to save himself with a counter-boop? he could already do this (at least I could anyway shrug)
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Jun 1, 2017 01:00
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I look forward to every roadhog main being replaced with reaper
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Jun 1, 2017 01:18
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This happened at one point while trying out the new map  
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Jun 1, 2017 01:20
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The Reaper change is positive (does it also make his ult charge a bit faster since he heals more now?) but I'd like to see them work on making Shadow Step less worthless. fishing with the fam posted:Was playing the new map on the PTR and I experienced my first crash. It threw an error saying it detected Fraps and shut down. Why the hell would Fraps cause overwatch to crash?
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Jun 1, 2017 01:36
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I'd be fine with PTR Roadhog if his passive gave him a flat 20% damage reduction. Take away his damage but increase his survivability since it's the worst of the tanks barring Orisa.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:19
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This assumption that the current hook is not an instakill because the hook-ee's team can bubble the victim / stun Hog / etc. rests on the hook-ee being part of a cohesive team that is actively working together, and being played by people with match awareness. That may be the norm for upper tiers, but here in the shitzone where most people play, it never is.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:32
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Montalvo posted:This assumption that the current hook is not an instakill because the hook-ee's team can bubble the victim / stun Hog / etc. rests on the hook-ee being part of a cohesive team that is actively working together, and being played by people with match awareness. That may be the norm for upper tiers, but here in the shitzone where most people play, it never is. People look for ways to blame their team's failings on their own mistakes that put them out of position and ripe to get ganked, nerfing Hog isn't going to make that go away, it's just going to shift peoples' complaints to another convenient scapegoat. To put it another way if the argument in favor of drastically nerfing Hog is "well now he'll have to use teamwork" I have no idea why the idea that you could just use teamwork to counter Hog is somehow suspect.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:38
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in the low tiers, the hook isn't an instakill a lot of the time because the roadhog is bad and flubs the easy shot. it's not that hard to gently caress up the oneshot as is, even without help from your team and if the argument to the hook being good is that it brings a guy into your team to kill, which requires teamwork, then the counter argument of someone saving the guy that got hooked is just as valid
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Jun 1, 2017 02:39
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I'm hoping this hook change forces non-Roadhog players realize they can and should shoot the targets that Roadhog hooks. I appreciate when people do this to my hook victims and I always try to return the favor. Sometimes the gun just doesn't shoot, sometimes you don't realize you're on zero ammo, and sometimes you just won't be able to OHK a big target. Focused attacks win games!
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Jun 1, 2017 03:39
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There's a patch just now which fixed the memory leak in PTR, supposedly.
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Jun 1, 2017 03:44
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A possible leak is claiming that the new hero, a Chimpanzee, will be a support hero that has a gimmick based around... placing barriers. If that ends up being true I'm gonna be super disappointed. One because I don't want more monkeys everyone does monkeys. How about a talking alligator or some poo poo. And I'm also starting to get tired of having to shoot through a hundred barriers in matches. At first I thought people were just kind of being ridiculous about it, but as the game has gone on I'm starting to agree that the barriers are getting really annoying
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Jun 1, 2017 03:47
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Wildtortilla posted:I'm hoping this hook change forces non-Roadhog players realize they can and should shoot the targets that Roadhog hooks. I appreciate when people do this to my hook victims and I always try to return the favor. Sometimes the gun just doesn't shoot, sometimes you don't realize you're on zero ammo, and sometimes you just won't be able to OHK a big target. Focused attacks win games! People who want to win do this already. Making a character worse for no real tradeoff isn't going to usher in a magical age of teamwork. Macaluso posted:A possible leak is claiming that the new hero, a Chimpanzee, will be a support hero that has a gimmick based around... placing barriers. I'm torn here because on the one hand I agree 1000% that Overwatch features too much shooting through translucent hard-candy window panes (which guess what, will now take even longer thanks to Roadhog's reduced DPS to go along with Orisa's reduced DPS and D.Va's reduced DPS and Soldier's etc), but on the other hand I can't actually agree with the idea that more monkeys is somehow a bad thing. Like straight up I want a mod that turns all the characters in the game into assorted monkeys except for Winston who just turns into a fat nerdy human with a jetpack.
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Jun 1, 2017 03:52
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aaaaaand I just lost another placement match. So far my losses are from people leaving my team and this latest one is someone who threw because they couldn't "solo heal as mercy."
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Jun 1, 2017 03:52
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Macaluso posted:A possible leak is claiming that the new hero, a Chimpanzee, will be a support hero that has a gimmick based around... placing barriers. ugh i have a general dislike for primates but chimpanzees are the ones i actually hate the most we already have one talking ape we seriously don't need any more
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Jun 1, 2017 04:19
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Kerrrrrrr posted:ugh i have a general dislike for primates but chimpanzees are the ones i actually hate the most What about an intelligent moon ape that also escaped to earth only he landed in Australia and was taken in by a bunch of Junkers and now he's a post-apocalyptic warlord called Furious George?
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Jun 1, 2017 04:28
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Kai Tave posted:What about an intelligent moon ape that also escaped to earth only he landed in Australia and was taken in by a bunch of Junkers and now he's a post-apocalyptic warlord called Furious George? now we're talkin'
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Jun 1, 2017 04:31
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Wildtortilla posted:aaaaaand I just lost another placement match. So far my losses are from people leaving my team and this latest one is someone who threw because they couldn't "solo heal as mercy." yeah my placement matches aren't going so well either.. with a miracle run of wins I can just barely get back up to .500  It makes sense that the chimp would be a support hero because we only have 5 of those right now, but I too hope that rumor about him just running around placing barriers isn't true... although if he's super mobile as one would expect a small chimpanzee to be and he can place multiple barriers in different locations at once, I could see myself being quite good at that hero. probably the idea is to reduce the reliance on Reinhardt.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:45
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Macaluso posted:A possible leak is claiming that the new hero, a Chimpanzee, will be a support hero that has a gimmick based around... placing barriers. 
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Jun 1, 2017 04:47
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Starsfan posted:yeah my placement matches aren't going so well either.. with a miracle run of wins I can just barely get back up to .500 Reinhardt isn't nearly as omnipresent as he was a season or two ago. Dive is where it's at
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Jun 1, 2017 04:49
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Jeff Kaplan and the Overwatch team are proud to announce the release of the new hero Barria, who is literally a flying 10,000 hitpoint barrier. Their ultimate ability creates three additional barriers allowing you to form a box around your team. These barriers last indefinitely until destroyed, but Barria's passive causes them to gain ult charge whenever any barrier in the game takes damage.
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Jun 1, 2017 05:00
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dps reductions, more shields and healing... my god, it's turning into every Blizzard game
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Jun 1, 2017 05:03
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I really really disliked Winston at first for being le meme gorilla xD, I eventually got past it and enjoy the game's characters and settings, but I'm still not really a fan of Winston. The next support hero being Hammond would severely strain my resolve.
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Jun 1, 2017 05:04
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Overwatch being Blizzard's take on a comic book esque universe, Winston being a hyperintelligent gorilla fits right in and if he doesn't seem to have much of a personality behind a few quirks and catchphrases, well, the same could be said for most of the game's cast really. It could always be worse, remember the "wacky" penguin piloting a mech in the hit hobby-grade co-op genre blended multi-mode competitive esports FPS Battleborn.
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Jun 1, 2017 05:07
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Hammond = Ham Mond = Hand Mood = Mood Hand = Doomfist
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Jun 1, 2017 05:14
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Kai Tave posted:Overwatch being Blizzard's take on a comic book esque universe, Winston being a hyperintelligent gorilla fits right in and if he doesn't seem to have much of a personality behind a few quirks and catchphrases, well, the same could be said for most of the game's cast really. Eh, I'd probably like him more if Blizzard would make it clear what exactly his deal with Overwatch is. I get he's a member, and that he's responsible for bringing the squad back together, and he and Tracer have a close friendship... but then that's it, and there's not even anything there to infer further details from. Winston (and D.Va, Orisa, Mei) are characters that are almost completely extraneous to the plot they have going. For Winston in particular, this coming on top of him not really having anything interesting going on about him, doesn't make him seem very appealing as a character. The Jack/Ana/Gabe triangle at least has a lot of implied stuff going on that you can extrapolate from and wonder about, same with Genji/Zenyatta/Mercy/Hanzo, and Reaper/Widowmaker/Sombra, Sombra/Zarya, really everyone else is connected in some way that on top of their personalities and characters make them interesting. So far, it feels like they added Winston simply to have a Lol Talking Gorilla and can't really figure out what to do with him. If this rumor is legitimate, adding Hammond the (Evil?) Talking Chimpanzee just means that my first impression of Winston was completely accurate.
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Jun 1, 2017 05:31
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If they're taking out the Roadhog hook combo they need to do a LOT more than just buff his shoot speed (especially since it's not even going to be a dps gain). The hook combo is what Roadhog is right now. Without it, he doesn't really have a place or identity in the game. He's just a guy with a lot of health and a kind-of-not-poo poo weapon. They need to give him a new ability or gimmick or something. Maybe something to make using the hook to interrupt/reposition enemies more appealing, since that's what it basically all it can do now? He might even need some more survivability, since the hook will move enemies into a position where they can shoot him way more easily and there's not really much he can do to stop them.
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Jun 1, 2017 05:35
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The emails indicated Hammond can move through ventilation shafts, so I doubt chimpanzee but rather something even smaller; my bet is an evil cat piloting a robot.
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Jun 1, 2017 05:40
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SKULL.GIF posted:Eh, I'd probably like him more if Blizzard would make it clear what exactly his deal with Overwatch is. I get he's a member, and that he's responsible for bringing the squad back together, and he and Tracer have a close friendship... but then that's it, and there's not even anything there to infer further details from. I mean the game's plot exists as a series of meaningless animated shorts for Blizzard to flex their CG muscles with and a bunch of random dialogue snippets in the waiting room before rounds, none of it is exactly deep riveting lore. Blizzard doesn't need to "do anything" with Winston because they aren't "doing anything" with the rest of the characters either. Zinkraptor posted:He's just a guy with a lot of health and a kind-of-not-poo poo weapon. This isn't even really accurate because once this change goes live Roadhog's gun isn't even going to be that great anymore.
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Jun 1, 2017 05:40
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Kai Tave posted:I mean the game's plot exists as a series of meaningless animated shorts for Blizzard to flex their CG muscles with and a bunch of random dialogue snippets in the waiting room before rounds, none of it is exactly deep riveting lore. Blizzard doesn't need to "do anything" with Winston because they aren't "doing anything" with the rest of the characters either. I'm not sure you read my post. There's a difference between "That's it, but we can wonder about more" and "That's it, and there's no point wondering about more because that's literally all of everything that's presented to us with no hooks into anything else at all."
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Jun 1, 2017 05:46
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SKULL.GIF posted:Eh, I'd probably like him more if Blizzard would make it clear what exactly his deal with Overwatch is. I get he's a member, and that he's responsible for bringing the squad back together, and he and Tracer have a close friendship... but then that's it, and there's not even anything there to infer further details from. Who writes that many words about a non-existent gorilla?
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