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Jun 1, 2017 01:35
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I want that shirt now.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:43
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For those of you who are all caught up, is The Missing Pieces actually coming up as relevant information to have seen?
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Jun 1, 2017 02:07
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Kart Barfunkel posted:For those of you who are all caught up, is The Missing Pieces actually coming up as relevant information to have seen?
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Jun 1, 2017 02:13
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:Only asking here because it's the most likely to have knowledgeable answers. I saw MulhollNd Drive like 6 months ago and I couldn't get it. Like I get that either the first half is s dream or the second half is a dream or maybe both are half dreams, but while I still suppose I liked it, I still couldn't tell you what happened or what the blue box or the homeless woman (whose expression I just read was the actress making gently caress Me Eyes at David Lynch) really "mean," etc. Of Lynch's works I've seen Twin Peaks, FWWM , the past 4 eps of S3, Mulholland, and Eraserhead like 4 times because it's possibly my favorite movie. Maybe this essay can help you understand Mulholland Drive.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:18
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The missing pieces is worth watching regardless. There's cool stuff in there.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:20
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Origami Dali posted:The missing pieces is worth watching regardless. There's cool stuff in there. Black hole sun Won't you come And wash away the rain Black hole sun Won't you come Won't you come
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Jun 1, 2017 02:23
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:Only asking here because it's the most likely to have knowledgeable answers. I saw MulhollNd Drive like 6 months ago and I couldn't get it. Like I get that either the first half is s dream or the second half is a dream or maybe both are half dreams, but while I still suppose I liked it, I still couldn't tell you what happened or what the blue box or the homeless woman (whose expression I just read was the actress making gently caress Me Eyes at David Lynch) really "mean," etc. Of Lynch's works I've seen Twin Peaks, FWWM , the past 4 eps of S3, Mulholland, and Eraserhead like 4 times because it's possibly my favorite movie. The first half is a dream, it's literally framed by a shot of the camera going into a pillow and then Naomi Watts waking up. The last chunk is what happened right before the dream, and the interrelationship between the two pieces is just an examination of how Watts wishes things had gone. So, in real life Harring is a toxic bisexual who toys with Watts and crushes her dreams, and in the dream she's a submissive amnesiac who loves Watts entirely. In real life, Theroux is a shithead director who puts Watts in a bit role, in the dream, he's constantly harassed and literally forced against his will to not put Watts in the main role. In real life, the hitman kills Harring, in the dream, he's some rear end in a top hat who has an incredibly bad day. The point of the dream is Watts is trying to bury the things she's done in real life, but they won't stay buried, which leads to them finding the horrifying corpse. The blue box is whatever, repression or something, it doesn't really matter. The homeless lady is a representation of the other end of the dream spectrum - you have stardom, and you have that, which is explored in Lynch's other Hollywood movies.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:27
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:Only asking here because it's the most likely to have knowledgeable answers. I saw MulhollNd Drive like 6 months ago and I couldn't get it. Like I get that either the first half is s dream or the second half is a dream or maybe both are half dreams, but while I still suppose I liked it, I still couldn't tell you what happened or what the blue box or the homeless woman (whose expression I just read was the actress making gently caress Me Eyes at David Lynch) really "mean," etc. Of Lynch's works I've seen Twin Peaks, FWWM , the past 4 eps of S3, Mulholland, and Eraserhead like 4 times because it's possibly my favorite movie. Have you watched MD more than once? I think that would help a lot in trying to understand it (in your own way, anyway). It's a very dense film, so there's plenty of parsing what is real, fake, dream, etc. before you get to a place where it really clicks. I think the most pivotal point in the film in regard to this is the scene in the theater.
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Jun 1, 2017 02:40
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kaworu posted:You know, it's very funny reading the posts from Jerusalem, because (and I hope he's not reading this post yet) it's got to be very odd to go from FWWM and the end of season 2 straight into season 3. It just seems odd. Something I paid close attention to when watching the first few episodes of S1 was the first dream sequence in the Red Room. In that dream Cooper has aged noticeably, lending credence to the mantra "Is it future, or is it past?"
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Jun 1, 2017 02:45
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Is it OK yet to start mentioning specific details and events from the first four episodes without using spoiler tags? Edit: the first four episodes of season 3, that is. Owl at Home fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 02:51
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I think like others have said, I've been listening to Shadow on repeat since the episode aired, but I just watched the video and noticed this little Easter egg
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Jun 1, 2017 02:58
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The Missing Pieces have been pretty connected to the new season - particularly the extended Jeffries scenes, and the post-finale epilogue, but there's a bunch of little things strewn in there as well.
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Jun 1, 2017 03:12
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Is Missing Pieces streaming anywhere?
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Jun 1, 2017 03:18
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Magic Hate Ball posted:
But that corpse is her right? So is this the sort of thing where it's all a dying dream in the microseconds in which the bullet years apart her brain? So the corpse we see is her mind telling her she's dead and do accept the fact she just took her own life because her lover is marrying some man and now she's hallucinating about borrowers invading her home? Also, no I've only seen it once but seeing it again is on my list of things to do this week, and Jesus loving Christ I'm no doctor but I am positive that is exactly what a dead body would look like after ~2 weeks. Like, the face is just starting to collapse 
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Jun 1, 2017 03:50
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99 CENTS AMIGO posted:The Missing Pieces have been pretty connected to the new season - particularly the extended Jeffries scenes, and the post-finale epilogue, but there's a bunch of little things strewn in there as well.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:22
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Kart Barfunkel posted:For those of you who are all caught up, is The Missing Pieces actually coming up as relevant information to have seen? I just watched the missing pieces and I was kind of surprised by how much of it was relevant. It is kind of hard to tell whether they are being referenced in S3, or whether Lynch just wants to revisit some of the ideas he had for his FWWM cut. There are scenes like Lucy using the phone in S3 and Lucy using the intercom in MP seem almost like a reshoot, but all the Jeffries and Red Lodge scenes could become relevant to the future plot.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:23
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As obnoxious as it is to read, Film Critic Hulk has a good write up about Mullholland Drive that really tired some stuff together for me.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:34
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:But that corpse is her right? So is this the sort of thing where it's all a dying dream in the microseconds in which the bullet years apart her brain? So the corpse we see is her mind telling her she's dead and do accept the fact she just took her own life because her lover is marrying some man and now she's hallucinating about borrowers invading her home? I don't think the corpse is her, tbh, or either of them, I think it's more just underlining that something about her life has died and rotted (her dreams of success, probably). And the dream happens before she shoots herself - everything after she wakes up and her ex comes over to get her lamp is real, until she hallucinates her grandparents attacking her for her failure.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:39
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 and added to the OP!
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Jun 1, 2017 04:54
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So what are everyone's opinions on the Leland-BOB continuum? Was every crime all BOB (per the TV series) or did BOB simply catalyze Leland's desires (as is implied in FWWM)? I'm of the opinion that it's more the latter than the former. Edit: Also, holy poo poo is Ray Wise terrifying in FWWM Kulkasha fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 05:19
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I think the point is definitely the latter, especially as a commentary on child abuse and familial rape.
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Jun 1, 2017 05:21
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Kulkasha posted:So what are everyone's opinions on the Leland-BOB continuum? Was every crime all BOB (per the TV series) or did BOB simply catalyze Leland's desires (as is implied in FWWM)? I like the latter much better, and felt that the shows tendency to make BOB a literal other-demon that possesses people like pazuzu to be a mark against it. It feels less about "the evil that men do" and more like a lame sci-fi plot.
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Jun 1, 2017 05:26
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Kulkasha posted:So what are everyone's opinions on the Leland-BOB continuum? Was every crime all BOB (per the TV series) or did BOB simply catalyze Leland's desires (as is implied in FWWM)? That is fascinating you that you see it in those two options. And that you centralize from Leland/BOB's POV rather than Laura's. To me, the question is a lot more like this at a basic level: Did Laura *and* Leland create Bob as a coping mechanism, and if so which one of them, or does it matter? You know, fundamentally you really can do an almost entirely non-mythological reading of most of the show, and it stays pretty consistent and makes a *lot* of upsetting and disturbing sense from a victim's point of view. The basic fear that Laura has in FWWM, that she will inevitable turn into her abuser if she stays on the path she's on - I can honestly tell you that this is something that *everyone* who suffers extensive sexual trauma (particularly incest) has to deal with. And it is absolutely horrifying, and it does cause some of them to commit suicide. Nobody likes to think that pedophiles and child abusers are victims in this world, and especially not in this country, but the really sad truth (and it's a truth I have the utmost respect for Lynch/Frost exploring with the character of Leland) is that most of the people who commit these awful crimes - people who rape their children, for instance - this behavior generally comes from somewhere, and it's very frequently a result of trauma that *they* suffered as a child and never coped with or received any treatment for, or any of the compassion they likely deserved at the time when they were victims. I realize this isn't news to anyone here, and I'm obviously not justifying any kind of behavior here, just stating the sad fact that more often than not, childhood trauma begets more childhood trauma, in one form or another. And Twin Peaks does deal with this fairly heavily. I was actually re-watching the episodes where Leland murders Maddy and is caught again, and I was really struck by how the language in his dying confession scene could really be read in either direction when he talks about BOB. Leland literally says, "I was just a boy - I invited him in. He opened me and then he came inside me." I know it's gross and graphic to look at it in that context, but it's also the context of the show (cycles of trauma and abuse) and I think the fact that BOB can also be read as... The specter of untreated trauma, which festers and turns into unimaginable hatred and bitterness and cruelty which *really does* hide behind the masks of everyday people, everywhere. I think that's a totally legitimate and significant way to read the show, though. I think without the supernatural elements, it would be unimaginably sad and bleak.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:25
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hallo spacedog posted:2 questions: FIRE TALK WITH ME is a great one. They have a lot of famous-ish guests on as well to talk about the show. They go episode by episode through it, but the great thing is that Allie Goertz had never seen an episode and didn't know who the killer was, so it's really interesting to hear that perspective (For a lot of the show she thinks that Ben Horne did it, which is interesting). Also it's nice that the internet didn't spoil it for her.
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Jun 1, 2017 10:26
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I don't think the corpse is her, tbh, or either of them, I think it's more just underlining that something about her life has died and rotted (her dreams of success, probably). And the dream happens before she shoots herself - everything after she wakes up and her ex comes over to get her lamp is real, until she hallucinates her grandparents attacking her for her failure. I always thought that was about the saddest part of the film, that Diane on some buried level already knows she's going to kill herself and there'll be no-one concerned enough for her to even find her there. She still has the dreams of being wanted, but now they're torturous. In general though I'm a little reluctant to outright explain Mulholland Drive to first time viewers, given the clues are in there. What worked for me was seeing Lost Highway as a kid, enjoying it despite having no loving idea what was happening, then seeing Mulholland Drive and understanding them both, given they're essentially variations on the same idea. Personally I think Mulholland Drive has the edge: it's structured a little better, has more tragic dimension and is lent more substance by engaging with Hollywood as image factory / home of the casting couch, but LH is still great and people should definitely see each one. Lost Highway never got an outright list of clues like Mulholland Drive, but I would say the key lines are why Fred doesn't like videotapes, and what they do in the Far East. UNRULY_HOUSEGUEST fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 12:50
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GimpChimp posted:I always thought that was about the saddest part of the film, that Diane on some buried level already knows she's going to kill herself and there'll be no-one concerned enough for her to even find her there. She still has the dreams of being wanted, but now they're torturous. I saw an article the other day calling it Lynch's impenetrable masterpiece, when to me it feels completely straightforward, but in a way that people clearly think is disarming somehow. I think that LOST HIGHWAY takes that title, since it's much more deliberately obtuse in that regard (And makes more sense when Patricia Arquette said that it was Lynch's take on the OJ Simpson murder).
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Jun 1, 2017 13:24
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DrVenkman posted:I saw an article the other day calling it Lynch's impenetrable masterpiece, when to me it feels completely straightforward, but in a way that people clearly think is disarming somehow. The thing that will never, ever stop creeping me out about Lost Highway is that the Mystery Man character was played by Robert Blake. In his last ever role. And it was just a totally out of the blue call from Lynch, he had never met Lynch or worked with him before. And bear in mind this was his LAST FILM in a very long career. A role he played only months before murdering his wife in cold blood. Did you know that Robert Blake did all his own makeup (and costume) for this film? As I recall that absolutely terrifying loving look of the character was ALL HIM.. Lynch gave him an idea of what he wanted and Blake just showed up dressed like that. Haha, oh man. I just found a quote of it from an interview - I wanted to bold certain parts, but I'd really just end bolding the whole drat interview. It's all kinda horribly scary and hosed up but also great. The whole drat article is worth reading if Robert Blake's experience on Mystery Man (in the sort of language below) interests you: http://cinefantastiqueonline.com/1997/04/interview-robert-blake-mystery-man-of-the-lost-highway/ Robert Blake posted:“I said, ‘David, I have some ideas about how this character should look.’ He said, ‘No, no, no! Just show me. Use your imagination.’ And I said, ‘Oh, yeah. That’s what Tracy said.’ I went off with the makeup people, and I got into this whole weird, fuckin’ Kabuki-looking guy with ears [sticking out] and stuff. I was imagining in my own strange world those times I have seen things that weren’t there, when a ghostly appearance occurred. I knew it was my imagination; I wasn’t really seeing something. But I sort of knew what the Devil looked like; I knew what Fate looked like. I used to have this image of myself that would come to me sometimes. I’d go out to the desert and get involved in some strange, isolated kind of thing, and all of a sudden I would come to myself as this white, ghostly creature. I said, ‘Oh yeah, that’s my conscience talking to me.’ So I started going with that. I cut my fuckin’ hair off, and I put a crack in the middle of it and all this poo poo. And the makeup people said, ‘You’re going crazy, man! Nobody in this movie looks like that; everybody looks regular!’ I said, ‘Leave me alone; just give me some poo poo.’ I put this black outfit on. I walked up to David, and he said, ‘Wonderful!’ and turned around and walked away. Haha, wow. Also: To the above poster, I don't see how Lynch's internal masterpiece could be anything but INLAND EMPIRE. I'm going to paraphrase a film critic here - in a way, Lynch has almost been making the same film over and over (with some notable exceptions, admittedly). They may have different plots, but they all share certain thematic and aesthetic similarities that are just like... in the DNA of these films. And it's almost as if he's been increasingly getting more and more abstract in expressing this story. The films I'm really talking about here are: Blue Velvet Fire Walk With Me Mulholland Drive INLAND EMPIRE You could include Lost Highway in there, too - maybe it should be on that list, but it's sketch) You know his tagline for INLAND EMPIRE? "A woman in trouble" - that could be the tagline for *all* of those 4 films. All of those films are sort of like... exploring and perfecting the expression of this nearly inexpressible concept. I always felt like Fire Walk With Me and INLAND EMPIRE had the most in common. They have VERY similar endings, both literally, thematically, and metaphorically. But I think he gets it across much more wholly, stylistically, and completely in INLAND. It really is his masterpiece because it touches on all those themes he's repeatedly explored. I always tell people when watching INLAND EMPIRE to just roll with it on their first viewing, and almost just view it as a series of vignettes - just let the images and the sounds and the dialogue wash over you, and take it at face value. Get utterly lost, just like Laura Dern's character(s). That's what I did when I first saw it in the theater, and to this day the scene on Hollywood Boulevard is arguably the most I've ever been simultaneously moved and utterly stunned/shellshocked. I'd gotten lost behind the marketplace, myself. Mulholland Drive was a bit too opaque at times - it's at its best when doing stuff like the Winky's scene, or the Silencio club scene. I always felt like the latter half was actually a bit heavy-handed for Lynch. But maybe it's because I dislike the way people try to come up with "the right explanation" or whatever, so I end up feeling upset about how others approach that particular film. kaworu fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 14:09
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Why was these scene deleted from FWWM??? It's so good and i love how it shows how Leland is pretty intense and intimidating even in his "normal" state. Without this scene there's so much less contrast in Leland's character - he's just portrayed as mostly evil from the start in the film. You see a flash of remorse halfway through the film, but never get to spend time with Normal Leland. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ga570KBFY Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 14:17
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Polo-Rican posted:Why was these scene deleted from FWWM??? It's so good and i love how it shows how Leland is pretty intense and intimidating even in his "normal" state. Well... I can sort of see why it was cut, though I do like... I think that it's a bit too silly in tone for most of the scenes set in the Palmer household, and as such it sticks out about. I love the way that the editor of the fan-cut I watched of FWWM/Missing pieces added in Badalamenti's hilarious Norweigan Theme Music from the pilot to this scene, it fits perfectly. But these are exactly the sorta scenes that just get cut in movies. I mean, FWWM was pretty bloated at 2.5 hours as is, and it's really not meant to be a funny movie, at all. And the Palmer house is a place of horror and tension and stress in this film - ESPECIALLY the dinner table, which is a place where Leland repeatedly demeans Laura throughout the film, most significantly in the "dirty hands" scene which still scares me.
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Jun 1, 2017 14:35
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kaworu posted:ESPECIALLY the dinner table, which is a place where Leland repeatedly demeans Laura throughout the film, most significantly in the "dirty hands" scene which still scares me.
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Jun 1, 2017 14:46
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Cromulent posted:Leno You're surprised a Leno audience has no idea what comedy is?? kaworu posted:But these are exactly the sorta scenes that just get cut in movies. I mean, FWWM was pretty bloated at 2.5 hours as is, and it's really not meant to be a funny movie, at all. And the Palmer house is a place of horror and tension and stress in this film - ESPECIALLY the dinner table, which is a place where Leland repeatedly demeans Laura throughout the film, most significantly in the "dirty hands" scene which still scares me. Yeah I agree — I forgot the film was 2.5 hours. What I meant is that the household is MORE stressful when you see both Lelands. If Leland is awful 100% of the time there's less surprise there. It's more tense when you don't know which Leland you're going to get. Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 14:49
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Yeah I liked the foil of happy Norwegian speaking Leland in the missing pieces I felt more for Laura when she doesn't know what kind of dad she's coming home which is relatable for a lot people irl
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Jun 1, 2017 14:55
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kaworu posted:I don't see how Lynch's internal masterpiece could be anything but INLAND EMPIRE.
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Jun 1, 2017 16:59
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:But that corpse is her right? So is this the sort of thing where it's all a dying dream in the microseconds in which the bullet years apart her brain? So the corpse we see is her mind telling her she's dead and do accept the fact she just took her own life because her lover is marrying some man and now she's hallucinating about borrowers invading her home? My interpretation is that the corpse is her subconscious telling her that she needs to kill herself, its her realization within the dream that she isn't this perky successful starlet. You have to look at things in this movie like a real life dream, and not a conventional movie dream. Real dreams are often very convoluted, have weird tone changes, and have bizzare abtract things happen. Like finding your own dead body I have had that in a dream before.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:48
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That dinner scene with the dirty hands was pretty normal to me and I don't really get why people talk about it
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Jun 1, 2017 17:50
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steakmancer posted:That dinner scene with the dirty hands was pretty normal to me and I don't really get why people talk about it
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Jun 1, 2017 17:56
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Listening to an indie mix on Spotify reading this thread when that Chromatics song comes on. Such a good song. All the closing songs have been great so far.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:57
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steakmancer posted:That dinner scene with the dirty hands was pretty normal to me and I don't really get why people talk about it It's blatantly Leland looking for a reason to punish Laura. There's no subtlety to it or anything. tao of lmao posted:Listening to an indie mix on Spotify reading this thread when that Chromatics song comes on. David Lynch: Whatever you do, girls, don't emote. Just plaaaay your instrument. I don't want any pleasure or any pain. You are the wiiiiiind.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:06
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Cromulent posted:That reminds me of when Lynch was on Leno (or another late night show) promoting FWWM. They showed the dirty fingers scene at the end of the interview, and the live audience responded to it by laughing - and not an uncomfortable smattering of laughs, it was like they were watching a comedy. It was really quite strange. I've seen FWWM a couple of times in the theater, and it tends to play weirdly with an audience. Either people are so uncomfortable, their response is nervous laughter, or else they just think it's so absurd or badly acted or whatever that they're laughing at the movie. Happens during the Leland revving the engine scene, too.
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