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How are Asimov's robot detective novels? I feel like he might be more successful if he is explicitly working in a genre that isn't hard S sci fi
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Jun 1, 2017 15:32
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Mel Mudkiper posted:How are Asimov's robot detective novels?
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Jun 1, 2017 15:37
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Mel Mudkiper posted:How are Asimov's robot detective novels? I liked them quite a bit They have some good buddy cop moments to lighten the robot philosophizing
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Jun 1, 2017 16:10
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Ok I like the story about the robot pope
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Jun 1, 2017 16:20
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FerretBrain's Arthur B did one of his trademark mega-reviews of Asimov's robot novels, and it's pretty good and entertaining.
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Jun 1, 2017 16:22
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It really can be amazing how ludicrously bad Asimov's writing can get when he's trying to write novels. Compare "Nightfall" the short story, which is amazing, possibly the greatest SF short story of all time, with Nightfall the novel, which is actively painful to read. This is typical for especially golden age authors because you need more than a really good idea to write a good novel. Bester comes to mind as an excellent exception to the norm, where he not only loads the novel up with multiple ideas but has enough plotting and characterization to carry it through to the end. Sadly he only had two good novels in him. It's also why short stories elaborated into novels tend to be so dire. The End of Eternity's pretty good though and it sort of boils down to a single idea (our timeline is not the original, but the result of conscious sabotage to make life harder on mankind so it'll advance). Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 16:33
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Antti posted:Bester comes to mind as an excellent exception to the norm, where he not only loads the novel up with multiple ideas but has enough plotting and characterization to carry it through to the end. Sadly he only had two good novels in him. To be fair, each of those two is worth more than many other authors' entire output.
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Jun 1, 2017 16:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It really can be amazing how ludicrously bad Asimov's writing can get when he's trying to write novels. Compare "Nightfall" the short story, which is amazing, possibly the greatest SF short story of all time, with Nightfall the novel, which is actively painful to read. I really liked the short story, one of those stories that really sticks with you, so I'm afraid to ask how they could have possibly spun it out into a full novel.
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Jun 1, 2017 16:58
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Snuffman posted:I really liked the short story, one of those stories that really sticks with you, so I'm afraid to ask how they could have possibly spun it out into a full novel. They didn't. I was lying. Why would anyone do that? It would be such a bad idea!
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Jun 1, 2017 17:25
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StrixNebulosa posted:I'm not even sure how to respond. Don't bother. Goons are dumb. I'm with you. Not that only male protagonists delve into creepy sex stuff, but there is a high proportion of it. Male gaze is, in fact, defined by...male protagonists. Gazing. At women. And elaborating on what part of her anatomy they're gazing at. Sometimes before the woman even gets a spoken line. Usually goons get that and it's specifically the main complaint about Dresden Files or other urban fantasy that anyone has. I guess there's just some easily-offended (white) men in the thread right now.  Of course, there's always the people who show up to say how they refuse to read fantasy written by women just because it's written by women, whenever someone points out that a reading list is entirely written by men when sexism is still a problem in genre fiction, so...y'know. Daniel Faust was refreshing for mostly avoiding male gaze, featuring major LGBQ characters, being aware of race issues, and writing women well - as in, you first learn something about their personality, not how fuckable they are. I keep finding new ways to appreciate Schaefer as a writer.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:32
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Antti posted:This is typical for especially golden age authors because you need more than a really good idea to write a good novel. Bester comes to mind as an excellent exception to the norm, where he not only loads the novel up with multiple ideas but has enough plotting and characterization to carry it through to the end. Sadly he only had two good novels in him. Hey, I liked The Computer Connection. But more because it's a decent novel and the setting is batshit insane than it's as good as his truly great novels.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:37
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Did we know Tad Williams is about to publish a the first book in a 30 years later followup trilogy to Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn? Because I just found out. And do we care? I'm trying and mostly failing, 500 pages of being lost in the woods apparently blocked any memory of the actual plot and characters.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:14
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Number Ten Cocks posted:Did we know Tad Williams is about to publish a the first book in a 30 years later followup trilogy to Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn? Because I just found out. I heard Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn were better, but after reading Otherland, I think I'll probably skip the rest of Williams' oeuvre.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:45
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I liked MS&T but I don't think it brings anything to the table that isn't done as well or better somewhere else. Not to mention the ending wrapped everything up so cleanly that a sequel seems like a silly idea.
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Jun 1, 2017 19:07
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I think it was pretty great for its time, but a lot of things there have been done better in the last thirty years. I last read it 20 years ago, though, so YMMV.
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Jun 1, 2017 19:30
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Bridge of Birds was indeed an outstanding book. Sherlock Holmes with a slight flaw in his character and burly Watson running around fantasy China solving crimes and correcting cosmic wrongs. Are the sequels any good?
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Jun 1, 2017 20:41
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Neurophage posted:Bridge of Birds was indeed an outstanding book. Sherlock Holmes with a slight flaw in his character and burly Watson running around fantasy China solving crimes and correcting cosmic wrongs. Are the sequels any good? Yes.
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Jun 1, 2017 20:44
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Neurophage posted:Bridge of Birds was indeed an outstanding book. Sherlock Holmes with a slight flaw in his character and burly Watson running around fantasy China solving crimes and correcting cosmic wrongs. Are the sequels any good? Not as good as Bridge of Birds but not bad at all. I can see why Hughart called it a day after three books though
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Jun 1, 2017 20:44
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Clipperton posted:Not as good as Bridge of Birds but not bad at all. I can see why Hughart called it a day after three books though He didn't exactly call it a day--the publisher was like 'welp, your numbers are down, not interested in more'. The eternal fate of the midlister, in other words. He intended to write like seven or something. Still, the quality was already declining so it might be for the best. I just looked it up and Hughart is like 83 now, he started writing pretty late I guess, so probably not jumping on the digital self-pub revolution.
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Jun 1, 2017 20:53
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occamsnailfile posted:I just looked it up and Hughart is like 83 now  And here I was hoping for the other four books just to get to the planned ending where they died and became minor deities doing the exact same thing, but in Heaven.
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Jun 1, 2017 21:00
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Alas, the Mysterious Mountain Cavern of Winds showdown will forever remain a mystery.
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Jun 1, 2017 21:07
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occamsnailfile posted:He didn't exactly call it a day--the publisher was like 'welp, your numbers are down, not interested in more'. The eternal fate of the midlister, in other words. He intended to write like seven or something. Still, the quality was already declining so it might be for the best. I just looked it up and Hughart is like 83 now, he started writing pretty late I guess, so probably not jumping on the digital self-pub revolution. I guess what I'm saying is that Hughart in decline was still a whole lot better than most of the subgenre. Shame digital distribution came too late.
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Jun 1, 2017 21:09
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And to be clear, it wasn't so much the publisher saying "welp, your numbers are down, not interested in more" as the publisher actively loving him (Hughart) over at nearly every opportunity, then whining that his numbers were down.
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Jun 1, 2017 21:21
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anilEhilated posted:Thing is, even with the declining quality, at this rate he'd still have at least a couple humorous fantasy novels in him before becoming a, say, Asprin or Holt. And a whole lot of books before turning into a John Moore. I don't know about Holt as a comic writer, but he is amazing as KJ Parker.
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Jun 1, 2017 21:30
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Megazver posted:I don't know about Holt as a comic writer, but he is amazing as KJ Parker.
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Jun 1, 2017 21:33
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I saw House of Suns at the library yesterday and picked it up on a whim. I like Reynolds enough, though Revelation Space really lost its steam after the third book, to the point where I couldn't really start the fourth. So far I'm loving it, it does a really cool thing with the idea of galactic stagnation and space travel taking a very, very long time. And I detect a bit of influence from The Fifth Head of Cerberus which is always welcome.
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Jun 1, 2017 22:07
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my bony fealty posted:I saw House of Suns at the library yesterday and picked it up on a whim. I like Reynolds enough, though Revelation Space really lost its steam after the third book, to the point where I couldn't really start the fourth. House of Suns and Chasm City are the only Reynold books I liked. Terminal City and Century Rain were mediocre. Haven't read his latest trilogy though.
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Jun 1, 2017 22:31
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Hobb is only slightly more tolerable than Rothfuss, as a novelist, ande worse than Martin, who is still bad.
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Jun 2, 2017 02:59
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Neurophage posted:House of Suns and Chasm City are the only Reynold books I liked. Terminal City and Century Rain were mediocre. Haven't read his latest trilogy though. I really wanted to like chasm city but i had one gripe with it: (chasm city spoilers ahead) i could never figure this out: the protagonist is sky hausmann, who was mind-wiped into thinking he is tanner mirabel - both of whom were super cunning and ruthless, with sky himself being an actual genius - so why during the events of the novel is he such a bumbling fuckhead?
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Jun 2, 2017 03:30
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andrew smash posted:i could never figure this out: the protagonist is sky hausmann, who was mind-wiped into thinking he is tanner mirabel - both of whom were super cunning and ruthless, with sky himself being an actual genius - so why during the events of the novel is he such a bumbling fuckhead? I still like that book a lot, mind you.
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Jun 2, 2017 07:30
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It's a noir in space, don't overthink it.
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Jun 2, 2017 07:38
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andrew smash posted:I really wanted to like chasm city but i had one gripe with it: (chasm city spoilers ahead) Because super cunning and ruthless protagonists makes for boring books, since there is literally no challenge for the protagonist. Number Ten Cocks posted:Did we know Tad Williams is about to publish a the first book in a 30 years later followup trilogy to Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn? Because I just found out.  I kinda like Tad Williams, but he is on the same order as Hobb when it comes to tormenting his protagonists. The Shadow series was kinda good though. Xaris posted:Honestly please do, i'd be interested (I have not read her books outside of the Assasin trilogy, which I mostly liked, but I read a few synopsis of some of the latter ones and they seem a little yikes) and i'm curious to see why you think that. Do you like wall of texts? Cause that is what you get from BotL.
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Jun 2, 2017 07:48
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anilEhilated posted:But it's more likely that Reynolds can't do characterization. Yeah, that's his weakness, and I appreciate that he's a strong writer despite that. But gently caress if I remember anything about any of his protagonists. The archaeologist guy was cool I guess.
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Jun 2, 2017 07:48
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anilEhilated posted:But it's more likely that Reynolds can't do characterization. Pushing Ice is such a fantastic concept and it is almost a masterpiece, but holy hell is the antagonist poorly thought out. Her motivation just seems to be, "Eh no, gently caress you. I will totally cut my face off and half my loving brain just to spite you bitch. I'm the boss." And then the entire volte brain at the end, whereby she dedicates whatever her half-life is now to finding satellites because she was incomprehensibly stupid and sad for what she did as she now has a window into her nemesis' mind." I can almost sympathise with her, because the protagonist just lets her get away with it, because "wring hands, there are so few of us," then more people die because of the next betrayal. Why didn't the protag just Ice her turncoat arse, after the 2nd betrayal?   I could have been so good. Chasm City is a less good Use of Weapons. Still a nice example of that particular asymmetric plot device.
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Jun 2, 2017 10:06
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Echo Cian posted:Don't bother. Goons are dumb. I'm with you. Not that only male protagonists delve into creepy sex stuff, but there is a high proportion of it. Male gaze is, in fact, defined by...male protagonists. Gazing. At women. And elaborating on what part of her anatomy they're gazing at. Sometimes before the woman even gets a spoken line. lol
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Jun 2, 2017 11:16
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it's insanely cool idpol is normalising racism and sexism again from the other side
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Jun 2, 2017 11:28
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(fascist-enabling) liberal: I choose to treat people as individuals and judge them on their individual merits, much as their context may inform this. idpol goon: actually, i think you'll find it is more meaningful and true to reduce people to a listing of census data Neurosis fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 11:31
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Cardiac posted:Do you like wall of texts? Cause that is what you get from BotL.
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Jun 2, 2017 12:08
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Not being prejudiced is enabling fascism now?
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Jun 2, 2017 12:59
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Strategic Tea posted:Not being prejudiced is enabling fascism now? a lot of antifa left types have been getting their hate on lately for liberals (by which they mean older fashioned liberals) for arguing for things like freedom of speech and thus enabling fascism. i think it is extremely silly but it's the kind of regressive thinking i'm mocking.
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Jun 2, 2017 13:03
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